Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Shri Prafullji, With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query asked . If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these have to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a 20 page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When You say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second class. The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap the others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this is the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for help) When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the same thing after some time to the native with no logic or reasoning then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is a public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want to hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You are tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I predict/ I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be happy. We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith the prediction made to a native on a public Forum. Even I will learn from elders. Call it a slfish motive or whatever. I dont need copycats but real originators. Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. Bhaskar., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 dear bhaskarji you are right in saying that some astrological reasoning is given while making a prediction so that the querent feels that the answer is based on astrology. when an astrolgoer is giving only simple readings without any astrolgoical conent, not only querents, even the astrologers ask for it. for example, sometime ago respected tatvam ji asked mr. abhishek dhawan to give the basis for his readings as no astrology content is there is mr. dhawan's readings. hence in my knowledge, most readings and predictions in this group are based only on astrology and if you want any specific reasoning behind a particular reading, you can always ask for the same, to understand and learn better. with best wishes and blessings pandit arjun , "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Shri Prafullji, > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query asked . > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these have > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a 20 > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When You > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second class. > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap the > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this is > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > help) > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or reasoning > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is a > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want to > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You are > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > predict/ > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > happy. > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith the > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > Even I will learn from elders. > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > I dont need copycats but real originators. > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > Bhaskar., > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Bhaskar Bhai Today seems to be real rough day..since morning, I am into something or else. Yes, had few very pleasant conversations too. I do not know, how this subject has come up now? I am clueless. Is it related to any of my post? If it relates to anyone's post..we can post our view while quoting their respective mails. Why is this thread addressed to me? I am neither moderator nor senior member. I can not question anyone, except myself. Still, for the sake of clarity, I will post my views. For example - I had feeling that, participating astrologers must define their rationale for prediction. As it helps jyotish students on the forum (and please correct me, If I have not understood the cause of forum. it is not free reading room..if it is, then the astrologer can reply privately). I posted this view quite explicitly on this forum and other forums too. But, as I read the mail of Ashutosh ji and his reasonings, I felt bad the way - such free reading service is misused by casual members. So I agreed with his feelings but expressed my opinion (selfish motive) too. I presumed the forum as jyotish forum for astrologers and at some stage, when mail box is flooded with junk mails carrying rediculous questions (like how many girl friends etc, which are less meaningful in life compared to questions relating to health, marital issues, progeny etc), it hurts. It not only hurts the way casual approach is taken by querents, but also for the respect people have for jyotish. Under all this mess, there is hardly serious participation on jyotish subjects by larger audience. Very few have been kind enough to share their experiences / knowledge. If this is all, what moderator is aiming at - then there is no point in debating this. I feel that, let there be open debate on the objective of this forum and code of conduct in terms of astrological interpretation. If it does not serve our personal preferences, we (many more like me), may choose to continue or withdraw. On couple of occasions, people post their own chart - without disclosing the idenity and later date, disclosure is made. Many more will agree with me on some of these practices, I have observed in this list ( mentioned as well on another thread about such request related previaling trends and best way to approach). What sort of trust are we building with each other..If we do not want to disclose, no issues..but why disclosures within few days..I do not know, if these are intentional or unintentional..but does not reflect bonding with the forum. On the top of it, privacy intrusion is made to those chart reading service givers (Pandit Arjun ji, Shri Kumar ji, and Ashutosh ji posted their issues - and we must respect their feelings. But instead of appreciating their contribution on the forum, members ridiculed them for their dissatisfaction). In couple of occasions, i observed multiple idenity driven posts to the forum. I am sure, many more can see all these through - and yes, might not have preferred to react. Bhaskar ji, I do not participate in any of casual reading requests / generalized requests or the requests posted on multiple forums. But did you notice - the way, people frame their conversation to provoke for the readings? Do you feel, it leaves the serving members with good taste. I have been observing it all for quite some time, but blocking those mails in the mail box seems to be the best emerging solution. I try my best to skip any confrontation on the forum. and if required (and when I do not agree with another astrologer's opinion / remedy), I do post privately to the member. The purpose is not to torment the flow of the thread. For example - I do not agree to blanket remedies or fatalistic predictions and, at times, I opt to post privately. I too, have been party to astrological debates, but for past few weeks - it got extended to personal prejudices and statements. Though not welcome mode of discussion, but are we not matured to deal with those. But, ego (??) caused the moderator's intervention and another bad event - banning of Shri Kumar ji. I am sorry to note that, even then the offended (??) member did not have courage to apologize to the forum for this childish act of referring the matter to moderator. regards / Prafulla Gang This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:24:40 -0000 > > WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > > Shri Prafullji, > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query asked . > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these have > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a 20 > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When You > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second class. > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap the > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this is > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > help) > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or reasoning > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is a > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want to > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You are > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > predict/ > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > happy. > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith the > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > Even I will learn from elders. > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > I dont need copycats but real originators. > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > Bhaskar., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Dear Prafullji, You have referred a couple of times about the offending member not apologizing. Suppose I tellYou I have done the complaint ?Then does it matter ? I have already apolozised. Would You want me to apolozise again ? Two times if i apolozise and will not be the offending member asked to apolozise once for using that language ? Will it sound proper judgemental ? And suppose the complaint had been made that time when I was hurt ? But effects have come now ? Who is to blame ? But now the matters have been cleared and all are okay with each other. Still would You like the offending member to apolozise when he has no qualms with the offended member at present ? Things will not change. Language has to be clean. No doubt. and in the same vein provocation should not exist . This mail was addressed to You again in support, that I too do not like or justify predictions without any supporting logic behind it. You will notice that i too do not participate in casual readings about stupid love affairs and meaningless idiotic queries related to such type of subjects. Unless its medical, or grave urgency I never go for prediction. Theres no harm in being professional,that means not giving free predictions, beacuse otherwise people tend to take advantage of You. I have been facing this for last 20 years of free predictions until my Guruji told me last year to stop giving free predictions.But yet Shri Prafullji I have atleast 3 horoscopes everyday coming to me from close relatives asking for silly replies without any fees, and of course You cant ask Your close relatives to give money for advice, Hope this clears me as to why I am addressing You. Just so that someone will listen. Regards, Bhaskar. , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Bhaskar Bhai > > Today seems to be real rough day..since morning, I am into something or else. Yes, had few very pleasant conversations too. > > I do not know, how this subject has come up now? I am clueless. Is it related to any of my post? If it relates to anyone's post..we can post our view while quoting their respective mails. > > Why is this thread addressed to me? I am neither moderator nor senior member. I can not question anyone, except myself. > > Still, for the sake of clarity, I will post my views. > > For example - I had feeling that, participating astrologers must define their rationale for prediction. As it helps jyotish students on the forum (and please correct me, If I have not understood the cause of forum. it is not free reading room..if it is, then the astrologer can reply privately). I posted this view quite explicitly on this forum and other forums too. But, as I read the mail of Ashutosh ji and his reasonings, I felt bad the way - such free reading service is misused by casual members. So I agreed with his feelings but expressed my opinion (selfish motive) too. > > I presumed the forum as jyotish forum for astrologers and at some stage, when mail box is flooded with junk mails carrying rediculous questions (like how many girl friends etc, which are less meaningful in life compared to questions relating to health, marital issues, progeny etc), it hurts. It not only hurts the way casual approach is taken by querents, but also for the respect people have for jyotish. Under all this mess, there is hardly serious participation on jyotish subjects by larger audience. Very few have been kind enough to share their experiences / knowledge. If this is all, what moderator is aiming at - then there is no point in debating this. I feel that, let there be open debate on the objective of this forum and code of conduct in terms of astrological interpretation. If it does not serve our personal preferences, we (many more like me), may choose to continue or withdraw. > > On couple of occasions, people post their own chart - without disclosing the idenity and later date, disclosure is made. Many more will agree with me on some of these practices, I have observed in this list ( mentioned as well on another thread about such request related previaling trends and best way to approach). What sort of trust are we building with each other..If we do not want to disclose, no issues..but why disclosures within few days..I do not know, if these are intentional or unintentional..but does not reflect bonding with the forum. On the top of it, privacy intrusion is made to those chart reading service givers (Pandit Arjun ji, Shri Kumar ji, and Ashutosh ji posted their issues - and we must respect their feelings. But instead of appreciating their contribution on the forum, members ridiculed them for their dissatisfaction). In couple of occasions, i observed multiple idenity driven posts to the forum. I am sure, many more can see all these through - and yes, might not have preferred to react. > > Bhaskar ji, I do not participate in any of casual reading requests / generalized requests or the requests posted on multiple forums. But did you notice - the way, people frame their conversation to provoke for the readings? Do you feel, it leaves the serving members with good taste. I have been observing it all for quite some time, but blocking those mails in the mail box seems to be the best emerging solution. > > I try my best to skip any confrontation on the forum. and if required (and when I do not agree with another astrologer's opinion / remedy), I do post privately to the member. The purpose is not to torment the flow of the thread. For example - I do not agree to blanket remedies or fatalistic predictions and, at times, I opt to post privately. > > I too, have been party to astrological debates, but for past few weeks - it got extended to personal prejudices and statements. Though not welcome mode of discussion, but are we not matured to deal with those. But, ego (??) caused the moderator's intervention and another bad event - banning of Shri Kumar ji. I am sorry to note that, even then the offended (??) member did not have courage to apologize to the forum for this childish act of referring the matter to moderator. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish > > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:24:40 -0000 > > > > WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > > > > Shri Prafullji, > > > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query asked . > > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these have > > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a 20 > > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When You > > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second class. > > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap the > > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this is > > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > > help) > > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or reasoning > > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is a > > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want to > > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You are > > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > > predict/ > > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > > happy. > > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith the > > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > > Even I will learn from elders. > > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > > I dont need copycats but real originators. > > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > > > Bhaskar., > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Shri Arjunji, Sirjee its really paining when members just shoot off replies in one sentence that all will be fine dont worry, etc, without giving any basis. Are these lines shot off after watching others posts or does it happen with own hard work, is the question. Thats why my mail was written . It is not out of line,if predictions are justified with atleast little reasoning, no one asks for whole secrets from anyone. And theres no secret by the way in astrology. All have learnt from what is readily available everywhere. Its just how many techniques one is able to learn and master. And if others are showed the technique of reasoning not that the astrologer would loose it. On the contrary knowledge shared is knowledge gained Arjunji You will agree. Not just astrologicalknowledge but intuition too counts in giving predictions. How can anyone loose his intuition ,if he just shows his line of reasoning I am unable to understand. This intuition no one can rob from anyone. It has to be developed. At least other knowledge can be shared to advantage of all, is what I meant. Regards, Bhaskar. , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear bhaskarji > > you are right in saying that some astrological reasoning is given > while making a prediction so that the querent feels that the answer > is based on astrology. > > when an astrolgoer is giving only simple readings without any > astrolgoical conent, not only querents, even the astrologers ask for > it. for example, sometime ago respected tatvam ji asked mr. > abhishek dhawan to give the basis for his readings as no astrology > content is there is mr. dhawan's readings. > > hence in my knowledge, most readings and predictions in this group > are based only on astrology and if you want any specific reasoning > behind a particular reading, you can always ask for the same, to > understand and learn better. > > with best wishes and blessings > pandit arjun > > , "bhaskar_jyotish" > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Shri Prafullji, > > > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query > asked . > > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these > have > > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a > 20 > > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When > You > > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second > class. > > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap > the > > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this > is > > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > > help) > > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or > reasoning > > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is > a > > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want > to > > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You > are > > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > > predict/ > > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > > happy. > > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith > the > > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > > Even I will learn from elders. > > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > > I dont need copycats but real originators. > > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > > > Bhaskar., > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Dear Bhaskar ji I meant to ask for apology for childish behaviour like complaining to moderator (without realizing that provokation leads to such conversation in our daily life..we all face it..and many a times are either side of the story). I did not have the idea about who complained..so I wrote with the intention, to clears the feelings. But if you have sought my personal opinion - If it were me, i would have done it again even if reaction has come now; and If i were Shri kumar ji, I will not come back to forum (as I have enough forums / platforms to pursue my selfless interest in the subject). But fortunately, he is much kinder and clean hearted person (in my judgement). Trust me, I am not writing emotionally. and If I were the person who complained - would have written back (immediately after the settling the fire - when things reconciled) to moderator for withdrawl of complaint. Bhaskar Bhai - I hope you will agree with me that bad words harms less than bad intentions. and am sure, if one is to judge the event - many (including you) might feel the same way. In my personal opinion, I kept on questioning throughout the day - only for the cause.and cause is astrology. How many astrologers did you observe on this forum - contributing to the astrology ? Very few..and losing one of very few on the forum is certainly loss to the forum. Perhaps, it is my sense of belonging to the forum. I will like to be standing with the member for unwarranted action than living philosophically on the forum. I do not want to get into good / bad side of the story; but certainly, forum's loss is not good. Coming to your view of rationale of prediction / remedy; I have voiced the purpose of forum and necessity of providing rationale / astrological reason with any prediction. In the event, such rationale need not be given (for variety of reasons) on the forum, then these readings can be posted privately to the querents. To me, it will save my mail box from junk mails. Having said that, i must agree with the plight of astrologers offering such service (including Ashutosh ji - I presume, your reaction was to his honest mail).. Even with the personal difficulties (as he mentioned), he is continuing to assist people. The cause is always bigger than its appearance. I agree to his rationale that except few astrologers (or students) - no one is bothered in serious discussions and also with the fact that it is easier to argue than to predict. I tried to put myself into his shoe, and felt bad for his experinces too. I felt the same for Shri kumar ji as well, just for the basic fact that, he was target in many such provoking threads (even few members were posting under different identities). I do not have predictive abilities and have no issues in confessing it; but within the constraints (time / energy / intellect), I try to put my technical views. I too, was questioned for departure from few fundamentals, but was never provoked or "attacked". In my opportunties for personal advise on my chart - I prefer to opt for private mail (except when we discuss technical issues on the forum) and will rarely get into arguments for the rationale. Even for chart reading with local astrologer(s), I listen to them and will not argue with their reasonings. Since, I am just an ordinary member of the forum and the only way, i could contribute to the jyotish community (not restricted to this forum) is to process something in line with my mission to the subject (even with less experience, predictive abilities and intellect). Hence, I have decided to host a jyotish portal in next few weeks - with the following agenda: - free membership (and free web promotion) - I will bear all costs for it, including technical costs and hosting costs -members to post articles freely -members to host files for downloading including software -jyotish resource compilation (blogs, software, articles, web resources etc) -forums to facilitate free discussions - restricted to serious astrological discussions(no free chart reading requests) - well segregated into categories and moderatd by members (chosen within the member panel) -astrologer's profile and directory service (for various cities) - where members will have freedom to get online payments and offer services - seperate section to all jyotish branches without prejudices - so that students/astrologers can pursue their interest - without any limitation - most importantly - promotion of local astrologers, who are full of rich knowledge Even with lesser number of members, I will be happy for the seriousness of the subjects and for the fact that most contents will not be around reading requests. As my astrologer friend always tells me that we all will die someday, so let us do something for the community. and I wish, I can implement the plan in immediate future. regards / Prafulla Gang This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:43:22 -0000 > > Re: WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > > Dear Prafullji, > > You have referred a couple of times about the offending member not > apologizing. > Suppose I tellYou I have done the complaint ?Then does it matter ? I > have already apolozised. Would You want me to apolozise again ? > Two times if i apolozise and will not be the offending member asked > to apolozise once for using that language ? > Will it sound proper judgemental ? > And suppose the complaint had been made that time when I was hurt ? > But effects have come now ? Who is to blame ? > But now the matters have been cleared and all are okay with each > other. > Still would You like the offending member to apolozise when he has no > qualms with the offended member at present ? > Things will not change. Language has to be clean. No doubt. and in > the same vein provocation should not exist . > > This mail was addressed to You again in support, that I too do not > like or justify predictions without any supporting logic behind it. > > You will notice that i too do not participate in casual readings > about stupid love affairs and meaningless idiotic queries related to > such type of subjects. Unless its medical, or grave urgency I never > go for prediction. > > Theres no harm in being professional,that means not giving free > predictions, beacuse otherwise people tend to take advantage of You. > I have been facing this for last 20 years of free predictions until > my Guruji told me last year to stop giving free predictions.But yet > Shri Prafullji I have atleast 3 horoscopes everyday coming to me from > close relatives asking for silly replies without any fees, and of > course You cant ask Your close relatives to give money for advice, > > Hope this clears me as to why I am addressing You. Just so that > someone will listen. > > Regards, > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish > wrote: >> >> Bhaskar Bhai >> >> Today seems to be real rough day..since morning, I am into > something or else. Yes, had few very pleasant conversations too. >> >> I do not know, how this subject has come up now? I am clueless. Is > it related to any of my post? If it relates to anyone's post..we can > post our view while quoting their respective mails. >> >> Why is this thread addressed to me? I am neither moderator nor > senior member. I can not question anyone, except myself. >> >> Still, for the sake of clarity, I will post my views. >> >> For example - I had feeling that, participating astrologers must > define their rationale for prediction. As it helps jyotish students > on the forum (and please correct me, If I have not understood the > cause of forum. it is not free reading room..if it is, then the > astrologer can reply privately). I posted this view quite explicitly > on this forum and other forums too. But, as I read the mail of > Ashutosh ji and his reasonings, I felt bad the way - such free > reading service is misused by casual members. So I agreed with his > feelings but expressed my opinion (selfish motive) too. >> >> I presumed the forum as jyotish forum for astrologers and at some > stage, when mail box is flooded with junk mails carrying rediculous > questions (like how many girl friends etc, which are less meaningful > in life compared to questions relating to health, marital issues, > progeny etc), it hurts. It not only hurts the way casual approach is > taken by querents, but also for the respect people have for jyotish. > Under all this mess, there is hardly serious participation on jyotish > subjects by larger audience. Very few have been kind enough to share > their experiences / knowledge. If this is all, what moderator is > aiming at - then there is no point in debating this. I feel that, let > there be open debate on the objective of this forum and code of > conduct in terms of astrological interpretation. If it does not serve > our personal preferences, we (many more like me), may choose to > continue or withdraw. >> >> On couple of occasions, people post their own chart - without > disclosing the idenity and later date, disclosure is made. Many more > will agree with me on some of these practices, I have observed in > this list ( mentioned as well on another thread about such request > related previaling trends and best way to approach). What sort of > trust are we building with each other..If we do not want to disclose, > no issues..but why disclosures within few days..I do not know, if > these are intentional or unintentional..but does not reflect bonding > with the forum. On the top of it, privacy intrusion is made to those > chart reading service givers (Pandit Arjun ji, Shri Kumar ji, and > Ashutosh ji posted their issues - and we must respect their feelings. > But instead of appreciating their contribution on the forum, members > ridiculed them for their dissatisfaction). In couple of occasions, i > observed multiple idenity driven posts to the forum. I am sure, many > more can see all these through - and yes, might not have preferred to > react. >> >> Bhaskar ji, I do not participate in any of casual reading > requests / generalized requests or the requests posted on multiple > forums. But did you notice - the way, people frame their conversation > to provoke for the readings? Do you feel, it leaves the serving > members with good taste. I have been observing it all for quite some > time, but blocking those mails in the mail box seems to be the best > emerging solution. >> >> I try my best to skip any confrontation on the forum. and if > required (and when I do not agree with another astrologer's opinion / > remedy), I do post privately to the member. The purpose is not to > torment the flow of the thread. For example - I do not agree to > blanket remedies or fatalistic predictions and, at times, I opt to > post privately. >> >> I too, have been party to astrological debates, but for past few > weeks - it got extended to personal prejudices and statements. Though > not welcome mode of discussion, but are we not matured to deal with > those. But, ego (??) caused the moderator's intervention and another > bad event - banning of Shri Kumar ji. I am sorry to note that, even > then the offended (??) member did not have courage to apologize to > the forum for this childish act of referring the matter to moderator. >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> >> This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." >> >> >>> >>> bhaskar_jyotish >>> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:24:40 -0000 >>> >>> WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? >>> >>> Shri Prafullji, >>> >>> With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self >>> ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query > asked . >>> If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these > have >>> to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that >>> the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while >>> replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his >>> predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give > a 20 >>> page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he >>> quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When > You >>> say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second > class. >>> The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and >>> study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging >>> best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that >>> horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap > the >>> others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If > this is >>> the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for >>> help) >>> When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the >>> same thing after some time to the native with no logic or > reasoning >>> then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say >>> that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is > a >>> public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What >>> extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You > want to >>> hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You > are >>> tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I >>> predict/ >>> I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be >>> happy. >>> We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith > the >>> prediction made to a native on a public Forum. >>> Even I will learn from elders. >>> Call it a slfish motive or whatever. >>> I dont need copycats but real originators. >>> Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. >>> >>> Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. >>> >>> Bhaskar., >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Dear Shri sharma ji Please call me Prafulla, not mr Prafulla. I appreciate your approach. and agree to your advise of staying away from any such debate. Yes, such debate will not be helpful. We must define our aproach and live with it. I will write privately to Shri kumar ji for his earliest resumption on the forum. regards / Prafulla Gang This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > polite_astro > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:29:47 -0700 (PDT) > > RE: WHAT IS THE LOGIC & Mr.Prashant > > ll HARE RAM ll > Dear Mr.Prafulla, > You are very right.I am firmly agree with your opinion but i will > advise you, > that there is no need of open debate on objective of this forum or code > of conducts in terms of astrlogical interpretation.It is needed for us to > make their own ethics regarding interpretation and it is very simple,we > should give answer according to the merrit of each question.As i never > give any answer regarding love marriage if concerned persons are below 25 > years of age.One may be laugh on me but never mind this is mine own > ethics.If interpretation is needed we must give otherwise to suggest > remedies is enough.There is no need to think deeply about the said > matter,try to be easy in your life and do request to Mr.Prashant for > joining such debate. > The inbox seems empty without his presence today truly.I hope,i will > see him through inbox tomorrow. > > God bless > Shashie Shekhar > Delhi > > > Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote: > Bhaskar Bhai > > Today seems to be real rough day..since morning, I am into something or > else. Yes, had few very pleasant conversations too. > > I do not know, how this subject has come up now? I am clueless. Is it > related to any of my post? If it relates to anyone's post..we can post > our view while quoting their respective mails. > > Why is this thread addressed to me? I am neither moderator nor senior > member. I can not question anyone, except myself. > > Still, for the sake of clarity, I will post my views. > > For example - I had feeling that, participating astrologers must define > their rationale for prediction. As it helps jyotish students on the forum > (and please correct me, If I have not understood the cause of forum. it > is not free reading room..if it is, then the astrologer can reply > privately). I posted this view quite explicitly on this forum and other > forums too. But, as I read the mail of Ashutosh ji and his reasonings, I > felt bad the way - such free reading service is misused by casual > members. So I agreed with his feelings but expressed my opinion (selfish > motive) too. > > I presumed the forum as jyotish forum for astrologers and at some stage, > when mail box is flooded with junk mails carrying rediculous questions > (like how many girl friends etc, which are less meaningful in life > compared to questions relating to health, marital issues, progeny etc), > it hurts. It not only hurts the way casual approach is taken by querents, > but also for the respect people have for jyotish. Under all this mess, > there is hardly serious participation on jyotish subjects by larger > audience. Very few have been kind enough to share their experiences / > knowledge. If this is all, what moderator is aiming at - then there is no > point in debating this. I feel that, let there be open debate on the > objective of this forum and code of conduct in terms of astrological > interpretation. If it does not serve our personal preferences, we (many > more like me), may choose to continue or withdraw. > > On couple of occasions, people post their own chart - without disclosing > the idenity and later date, disclosure is made. Many more will agree with > me on some of these practices, I have observed in this list ( mentioned > as well on another thread about such request related previaling trends > and best way to approach). What sort of trust are we building with each > other..If we do not want to disclose, no issues..but why disclosures > within few days..I do not know, if these are intentional or > unintentional..but does not reflect bonding with the forum. On the top of > it, privacy intrusion is made to those chart reading service givers > (Pandit Arjun ji, Shri Kumar ji, and Ashutosh ji posted their issues - > and we must respect their feelings. But instead of appreciating their > contribution on the forum, members ridiculed them for their > dissatisfaction). In couple of occasions, i observed multiple idenity > driven posts to the forum. I am sure, many more can see all these through > - and yes, > might not have preferred to react. > > Bhaskar ji, I do not participate in any of casual reading requests / > generalized requests or the requests posted on multiple forums. But did > you notice - the way, people frame their conversation to provoke for the > readings? Do you feel, it leaves the serving members with good taste. I > have been observing it all for quite some time, but blocking those mails > in the mail box seems to be the best emerging solution. > > I try my best to skip any confrontation on the forum. and if required > (and when I do not agree with another astrologer's opinion / remedy), I > do post privately to the member. The purpose is not to torment the flow > of the thread. For example - I do not agree to blanket remedies or > fatalistic predictions and, at times, I opt to post privately. > > I too, have been party to astrological debates, but for past few weeks - > it got extended to personal prejudices and statements. Though not welcome > mode of discussion, but are we not matured to deal with those. But, ego > (??) caused the moderator's intervention and another bad event - banning > of Shri Kumar ji. I am sorry to note that, even then the offended (??) > member did not have courage to apologize to the forum for this childish > act of referring the matter to moderator. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > >> >> bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in >> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:24:40 -0000 >> >> WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? >> >> Shri Prafullji, >> >> With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self >> ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query asked . >> If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these have >> to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that >> the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while >> replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his >> predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a 20 >> page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he >> quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When You >> say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second class. >> The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and >> study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging >> best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that >> horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap the >> others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this is >> the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for >> help) >> When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the >> same thing after some time to the native with no logic or reasoning >> then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say >> that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is a >> public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What >> extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want to >> hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You are >> tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I >> predict/ >> I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be >> happy. >> We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith the >> prediction made to a native on a public Forum. >> Even I will learn from elders. >> Call it a slfish motive or whatever. >> I dont need copycats but real originators. >> Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. >> >> Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. >> >> Bhaskar., > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE > TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 ll HARE RAM ll Dear Mr.Prafulla, I do hearty welcome to your efforts making for new Jyotish portal and i am with you firmly in your sincere and pious object.Go ahead. God bless Shashie Shekhar Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Bhaskar ji I meant to ask for apology for childish behaviour like complaining to moderator (without realizing that provokation leads to such conversation in our daily life..we all face it..and many a times are either side of the story). I did not have the idea about who complained..so I wrote with the intention, to clears the feelings. But if you have sought my personal opinion - If it were me, i would have done it again even if reaction has come now; and If i were Shri kumar ji, I will not come back to forum (as I have enough forums / platforms to pursue my selfless interest in the subject). But fortunately, he is much kinder and clean hearted person (in my judgement). Trust me, I am not writing emotionally. and If I were the person who complained - would have written back (immediately after the settling the fire - when things reconciled) to moderator for withdrawl of complaint. Bhaskar Bhai - I hope you will agree with me that bad words harms less than bad intentions. and am sure, if one is to judge the event - many (including you) might feel the same way. In my personal opinion, I kept on questioning throughout the day - only for the cause.and cause is astrology. How many astrologers did you observe on this forum - contributing to the astrology ? Very few..and losing one of very few on the forum is certainly loss to the forum. Perhaps, it is my sense of belonging to the forum. I will like to be standing with the member for unwarranted action than living philosophically on the forum. I do not want to get into good / bad side of the story; but certainly, forum's loss is not good. Coming to your view of rationale of prediction / remedy; I have voiced the purpose of forum and necessity of providing rationale / astrological reason with any prediction. In the event, such rationale need not be given (for variety of reasons) on the forum, then these readings can be posted privately to the querents. To me, it will save my mail box from junk mails. Having said that, i must agree with the plight of astrologers offering such service (including Ashutosh ji - I presume, your reaction was to his honest mail).. Even with the personal difficulties (as he mentioned), he is continuing to assist people. The cause is always bigger than its appearance. I agree to his rationale that except few astrologers (or students) - no one is bothered in serious discussions and also with the fact that it is easier to argue than to predict. I tried to put myself into his shoe, and felt bad for his experinces too. I felt the same for Shri kumar ji as well, just for the basic fact that, he was target in many such provoking threads (even few members were posting under different identities). I do not have predictive abilities and have no issues in confessing it; but within the constraints (time / energy / intellect), I try to put my technical views. I too, was questioned for departure from few fundamentals, but was never provoked or "attacked". In my opportunties for personal advise on my chart - I prefer to opt for private mail (except when we discuss technical issues on the forum) and will rarely get into arguments for the rationale. Even for chart reading with local astrologer(s), I listen to them and will not argue with their reasonings. Since, I am just an ordinary member of the forum and the only way, i could contribute to the jyotish community (not restricted to this forum) is to process something in line with my mission to the subject (even with less experience, predictive abilities and intellect). Hence, I have decided to host a jyotish portal in next few weeks - with the following agenda: - free membership (and free web promotion) - I will bear all costs for it, including technical costs and hosting costs -members to post articles freely -members to host files for downloading including software -jyotish resource compilation (blogs, software, articles, web resources etc) -forums to facilitate free discussions - restricted to serious astrological discussions(no free chart reading requests) - well segregated into categories and moderatd by members (chosen within the member panel) -astrologer's profile and directory service (for various cities) - where members will have freedom to get online payments and offer services - seperate section to all jyotish branches without prejudices - so that students/astrologers can pursue their interest - without any limitation - most importantly - promotion of local astrologers, who are full of rich knowledge Even with lesser number of members, I will be happy for the seriousness of the subjects and for the fact that most contents will not be around reading requests. As my astrologer friend always tells me that we all will die someday, so let us do something for the community. and I wish, I can implement the plan in immediate future. regards / Prafulla Gang This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:43:22 -0000 > > Re: WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > > Dear Prafullji, > > You have referred a couple of times about the offending member not > apologizing. > Suppose I tellYou I have done the complaint ?Then does it matter ? I > have already apolozised. Would You want me to apolozise again ? > Two times if i apolozise and will not be the offending member asked > to apolozise once for using that language ? > Will it sound proper judgemental ? > And suppose the complaint had been made that time when I was hurt ? > But effects have come now ? Who is to blame ? > But now the matters have been cleared and all are okay with each > other. > Still would You like the offending member to apolozise when he has no > qualms with the offended member at present ? > Things will not change. Language has to be clean. No doubt. and in > the same vein provocation should not exist . > > This mail was addressed to You again in support, that I too do not > like or justify predictions without any supporting logic behind it. > > You will notice that i too do not participate in casual readings > about stupid love affairs and meaningless idiotic queries related to > such type of subjects. Unless its medical, or grave urgency I never > go for prediction. > > Theres no harm in being professional,that means not giving free > predictions, beacuse otherwise people tend to take advantage of You. > I have been facing this for last 20 years of free predictions until > my Guruji told me last year to stop giving free predictions.But yet > Shri Prafullji I have atleast 3 horoscopes everyday coming to me from > close relatives asking for silly replies without any fees, and of > course You cant ask Your close relatives to give money for advice, > > Hope this clears me as to why I am addressing You. Just so that > someone will listen. > > Regards, > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > wrote: >> >> Bhaskar Bhai >> >> Today seems to be real rough day..since morning, I am into > something or else. Yes, had few very pleasant conversations too. >> >> I do not know, how this subject has come up now? I am clueless. Is > it related to any of my post? If it relates to anyone's post..we can > post our view while quoting their respective mails. >> >> Why is this thread addressed to me? I am neither moderator nor > senior member. I can not question anyone, except myself. >> >> Still, for the sake of clarity, I will post my views. >> >> For example - I had feeling that, participating astrologers must > define their rationale for prediction. As it helps jyotish students > on the forum (and please correct me, If I have not understood the > cause of forum. it is not free reading room..if it is, then the > astrologer can reply privately). I posted this view quite explicitly > on this forum and other forums too. But, as I read the mail of > Ashutosh ji and his reasonings, I felt bad the way - such free > reading service is misused by casual members. So I agreed with his > feelings but expressed my opinion (selfish motive) too. >> >> I presumed the forum as jyotish forum for astrologers and at some > stage, when mail box is flooded with junk mails carrying rediculous > questions (like how many girl friends etc, which are less meaningful > in life compared to questions relating to health, marital issues, > progeny etc), it hurts. It not only hurts the way casual approach is > taken by querents, but also for the respect people have for jyotish. > Under all this mess, there is hardly serious participation on jyotish > subjects by larger audience. Very few have been kind enough to share > their experiences / knowledge. If this is all, what moderator is > aiming at - then there is no point in debating this. I feel that, let > there be open debate on the objective of this forum and code of > conduct in terms of astrological interpretation. If it does not serve > our personal preferences, we (many more like me), may choose to > continue or withdraw. >> >> On couple of occasions, people post their own chart - without > disclosing the idenity and later date, disclosure is made. Many more > will agree with me on some of these practices, I have observed in > this list ( mentioned as well on another thread about such request > related previaling trends and best way to approach). What sort of > trust are we building with each other..If we do not want to disclose, > no issues..but why disclosures within few days..I do not know, if > these are intentional or unintentional..but does not reflect bonding > with the forum. On the top of it, privacy intrusion is made to those > chart reading service givers (Pandit Arjun ji, Shri Kumar ji, and > Ashutosh ji posted their issues - and we must respect their feelings. > But instead of appreciating their contribution on the forum, members > ridiculed them for their dissatisfaction). In couple of occasions, i > observed multiple idenity driven posts to the forum. I am sure, many > more can see all these through - and yes, might not have preferred to > react. >> >> Bhaskar ji, I do not participate in any of casual reading > requests / generalized requests or the requests posted on multiple > forums. But did you notice - the way, people frame their conversation > to provoke for the readings? Do you feel, it leaves the serving > members with good taste. I have been observing it all for quite some > time, but blocking those mails in the mail box seems to be the best > emerging solution. >> >> I try my best to skip any confrontation on the forum. and if > required (and when I do not agree with another astrologer's opinion / > remedy), I do post privately to the member. The purpose is not to > torment the flow of the thread. For example - I do not agree to > blanket remedies or fatalistic predictions and, at times, I opt to > post privately. >> >> I too, have been party to astrological debates, but for past few > weeks - it got extended to personal prejudices and statements. Though > not welcome mode of discussion, but are we not matured to deal with > those. But, ego (??) caused the moderator's intervention and another > bad event - banning of Shri Kumar ji. I am sorry to note that, even > then the offended (??) member did not have courage to apologize to > the forum for this childish act of referring the matter to moderator. >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> >> This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." >> >> >>> >>> bhaskar_jyotish >>> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:24:40 -0000 >>> >>> WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? >>> >>> Shri Prafullji, >>> >>> With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self >>> ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query > asked . >>> If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these > have >>> to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that >>> the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while >>> replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his >>> predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give > a 20 >>> page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he >>> quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When > You >>> say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second > class. >>> The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and >>> study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging >>> best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that >>> horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap > the >>> others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If > this is >>> the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for >>> help) >>> When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the >>> same thing after some time to the native with no logic or > reasoning >>> then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say >>> that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is > a >>> public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What >>> extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You > want to >>> hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You > are >>> tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I >>> predict/ >>> I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be >>> happy. >>> We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith > the >>> prediction made to a native on a public Forum. >>> Even I will learn from elders. >>> Call it a slfish motive or whatever. >>> I dont need copycats but real originators. >>> Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. >>> >>> Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. >>> >>> Bhaskar., >> SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 Dear Shri Sharma ji Many thanks for your kind words. regards / Prafulla Gang This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > polite_astro > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:16:40 -0700 (PDT) > > RE: Re: WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > > ll HARE RAM ll > Dear Mr.Prafulla, > I do hearty welcome to your efforts making for new Jyotish portal and i > am with you firmly in your sincere and pious object.Go ahead. > > God bless > Shashie Shekhar > > > Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote: > Dear Bhaskar ji > > I meant to ask for apology for childish behaviour like complaining to > moderator (without realizing that provokation leads to such conversation > in our daily life..we all face it..and many a times are either side of > the story). > > I did not have the idea about who complained..so I wrote with the > intention, to clears the feelings. But if you have sought my personal > opinion - If it were me, i would have done it again even if reaction has > come now; and If i were Shri kumar ji, I will not come back to forum (as > I have enough forums / platforms to pursue my selfless interest in the > subject). But fortunately, he is much kinder and clean hearted person (in > my judgement). Trust me, I am not writing emotionally. and If I were the > person who complained - would have written back (immediately after the > settling the fire - when things reconciled) to moderator for withdrawl of > complaint. > > Bhaskar Bhai - I hope you will agree with me that bad words harms less > than bad intentions. and am sure, if one is to judge the event - many > (including you) might feel the same way. > > In my personal opinion, I kept on questioning throughout the day - only > for the cause.and cause is astrology. How many astrologers did you > observe on this forum - contributing to the astrology ? Very few..and > losing one of very few on the forum is certainly loss to the forum. > Perhaps, it is my sense of belonging to the forum. I will like to be > standing with the member for unwarranted action than living > philosophically on the forum. I do not want to get into good / bad side > of the story; but certainly, forum's loss is not good. > > Coming to your view of rationale of prediction / remedy; I have voiced > the purpose of forum and necessity of providing rationale / astrological > reason with any prediction. In the event, such rationale need not be > given (for variety of reasons) on the forum, then these readings can be > posted privately to the querents. To me, it will save my mail box from > junk mails. Having said that, i must agree with the plight of astrologers > offering such service (including Ashutosh ji - I presume, your reaction > was to his honest mail). Even with the personal difficulties (as he > mentioned), he is continuing to assist people. The cause is always bigger > than its appearance. I agree to his rationale that except few astrologers > (or students) - no one is bothered in serious discussions and also with > the fact that it is easier to argue than to predict. I tried to put > myself into his shoe, and felt bad for his experinces too. I felt the > same for Shri kumar ji as well, just for the basic fact > that, he was target in many such provoking threads (even few members > were posting under different identities). I do not have predictive > abilities and have no issues in confessing it; but within the constraints > (time / energy / intellect), I try to put my technical views. I too, was > questioned for departure from few fundamentals, but was never provoked or > "attacked". In my opportunties for personal advise on my chart - I prefer > to opt for private mail (except when we discuss technical issues on the > forum) and will rarely get into arguments for the rationale. Even for > chart reading with local astrologer(s), I listen to them and will not > argue with their reasonings. > > Since, I am just an ordinary member of the forum and the only way, i > could contribute to the jyotish community (not restricted to this forum) > is to process something in line with my mission to the subject (even with > less experience, predictive abilities and intellect). Hence, I have > decided to host a jyotish portal in next few weeks - with the following > agenda: > > - free membership (and free web promotion) - I will bear all costs for > it, including technical costs and hosting costs > -members to post articles freely > -members to host files for downloading including software > -jyotish resource compilation (blogs, software, articles, web resources > etc) > -forums to facilitate free discussions - restricted to serious > astrological discussions(no free chart reading requests) - well > segregated into categories and moderatd by members (chosen within the > member panel) > -astrologer's profile and directory service (for various cities) - where > members will have freedom to get online payments and offer services > - seperate section to all jyotish branches without prejudices - so that > students/astrologers can pursue their interest - without any limitation > - most importantly - promotion of local astrologers, who are full of rich > knowledge > > Even with lesser number of members, I will be happy for the seriousness > of the subjects and for the fact that most contents will not be around > reading requests. > > As my astrologer friend always tells me that we all will die someday, so > let us do something for the community. and I wish, I can implement the > plan in immediate future. > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > >> >> bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in >> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:43:22 -0000 >> >> Re: WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? >> >> Dear Prafullji, >> >> You have referred a couple of times about the offending member not >> apologizing. >> Suppose I tellYou I have done the complaint ?Then does it matter ? I >> have already apolozised. Would You want me to apolozise again ? >> Two times if i apolozise and will not be the offending member asked >> to apolozise once for using that language ? >> Will it sound proper judgemental ? >> And suppose the complaint had been made that time when I was hurt ? >> But effects have come now ? Who is to blame ? >> But now the matters have been cleared and all are okay with each >> other. >> Still would You like the offending member to apolozise when he has no >> qualms with the offended member at present ? >> Things will not change. Language has to be clean. No doubt. and in >> the same vein provocation should not exist . >> >> This mail was addressed to You again in support, that I too do not >> like or justify predictions without any supporting logic behind it. >> >> You will notice that i too do not participate in casual readings >> about stupid love affairs and meaningless idiotic queries related to >> such type of subjects. Unless its medical, or grave urgency I never >> go for prediction. >> >> Theres no harm in being professional,that means not giving free >> predictions, beacuse otherwise people tend to take advantage of You. >> I have been facing this for last 20 years of free predictions until >> my Guruji told me last year to stop giving free predictions.But yet >> Shri Prafullji I have atleast 3 horoscopes everyday coming to me from >> close relatives asking for silly replies without any fees, and of >> course You cant ask Your close relatives to give money for advice, >> >> Hope this clears me as to why I am addressing You. Just so that >> someone will listen. >> >> Regards, >> Bhaskar. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> , Prafulla Gang >> wrote: >>> >>> Bhaskar Bhai >>> >>> Today seems to be real rough day..since morning, I am into >> something or else. Yes, had few very pleasant conversations too. >>> >>> I do not know, how this subject has come up now? I am clueless. Is >> it related to any of my post? If it relates to anyone's post..we can >> post our view while quoting their respective mails. >>> >>> Why is this thread addressed to me? I am neither moderator nor >> senior member. I can not question anyone, except myself. >>> >>> Still, for the sake of clarity, I will post my views. >>> >>> For example - I had feeling that, participating astrologers must >> define their rationale for prediction. As it helps jyotish students >> on the forum (and please correct me, If I have not understood the >> cause of forum. it is not free reading room..if it is, then the >> astrologer can reply privately). I posted this view quite explicitly >> on this forum and other forums too. But, as I read the mail of >> Ashutosh ji and his reasonings, I felt bad the way - such free >> reading service is misused by casual members. So I agreed with his >> feelings but expressed my opinion (selfish motive) too. >>> >>> I presumed the forum as jyotish forum for astrologers and at some >> stage, when mail box is flooded with junk mails carrying rediculous >> questions (like how many girl friends etc, which are less meaningful >> in life compared to questions relating to health, marital issues, >> progeny etc), it hurts. It not only hurts the way casual approach is >> taken by querents, but also for the respect people have for jyotish. >> Under all this mess, there is hardly serious participation on jyotish >> subjects by larger audience. Very few have been kind enough to share >> their experiences / knowledge. If this is all, what moderator is >> aiming at - then there is no point in debating this. I feel that, let >> there be open debate on the objective of this forum and code of >> conduct in terms of astrological interpretation. If it does not serve >> our personal preferences, we (many more like me), may choose to >> continue or withdraw. >>> >>> On couple of occasions, people post their own chart - without >> disclosing the idenity and later date, disclosure is made. Many more >> will agree with me on some of these practices, I have observed in >> this list ( mentioned as well on another thread about such request >> related previaling trends and best way to approach). What sort of >> trust are we building with each other..If we do not want to disclose, >> no issues..but why disclosures within few days..I do not know, if >> these are intentional or unintentional..but does not reflect bonding >> with the forum. On the top of it, privacy intrusion is made to those >> chart reading service givers (Pandit Arjun ji, Shri Kumar ji, and >> Ashutosh ji posted their issues - and we must respect their feelings. >> But instead of appreciating their contribution on the forum, members >> ridiculed them for their dissatisfaction). In couple of occasions, i >> observed multiple idenity driven posts to the forum. I am sure, many >> more can see all these through - and yes, might not have preferred to >> react. >>> >>> Bhaskar ji, I do not participate in any of casual reading >> requests / generalized requests or the requests posted on multiple >> forums. But did you notice - the way, people frame their conversation >> to provoke for the readings? Do you feel, it leaves the serving >> members with good taste. I have been observing it all for quite some >> time, but blocking those mails in the mail box seems to be the best >> emerging solution. >>> >>> I try my best to skip any confrontation on the forum. and if >> required (and when I do not agree with another astrologer's opinion / >> remedy), I do post privately to the member. The purpose is not to >> torment the flow of the thread. For example - I do not agree to >> blanket remedies or fatalistic predictions and, at times, I opt to >> post privately. >>> >>> I too, have been party to astrological debates, but for past few >> weeks - it got extended to personal prejudices and statements. Though >> not welcome mode of discussion, but are we not matured to deal with >> those. But, ego (??) caused the moderator's intervention and another >> bad event - banning of Shri Kumar ji. I am sorry to note that, even >> then the offended (??) member did not have courage to apologize to >> the forum for this childish act of referring the matter to moderator. >>> >>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>> >>> This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." >>> >>> >>>> >>>> bhaskar_jyotish >>>> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:24:40 -0000 >>>> >>>> WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? >>>> >>>> Shri Prafullji, >>>> >>>> With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self >>>> ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query >> asked . >>>> If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these >> have >>>> to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that >>>> the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while >>>> replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his >>>> predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give >> a 20 >>>> page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he >>>> quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When >> You >>>> say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second >> class. >>>> The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and >>>> study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging >>>> best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that >>>> horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap >> the >>>> others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If >> this is >>>> the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for >>>> help) >>>> When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the >>>> same thing after some time to the native with no logic or >> reasoning >>>> then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say >>>> that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is >> a >>>> public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What >>>> extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You >> want to >>>> hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You >> are >>>> tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I >>>> predict/ >>>> I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be >>>> happy. >>>> We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith >> the >>>> prediction made to a native on a public Forum. >>>> Even I will learn from elders. >>>> Call it a slfish motive or whatever. >>>> I dont need copycats but real originators. >>>> Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. >>>> >>>> Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. >>>> >>>> Bhaskar., >>> > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE > TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji Many thanks for your inspiring note. I have passed the broad specification sheet to my technical team and have sought the timeline from them. It will be more of resource portal (forum being part of it). I am still in process of structuring chart reading area (seperate - perhaps run through classified section). regards / Prafulla Gang "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." > > jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:41:00 -0000 > > Edited post re Prafulla's forum > > Prafulla, > > This is a wonderful idea! My best wishes for a very successful > jyotish portal. Your idea of separating the reading areas from > discussion areas is a very good one. I have seen a few ancient and > recent ones with that kind of structure. There is a lot of interest > in readers about getting a proper reading and many realize that > astrologers are humans too and have different motivations for the > types of energy exchange possible. Some may take the dharmic-karmic > payment, others may prefer more tangible currency! Having each > astrologer decide how best his or her needs are met is the right way > to proceed. This way, those who want to do the practice or focus on > readings do not have to describe the process which is always longer > than writing out a reading. And no matter how well described, the > description is never complete, or comprehensive and can potentially > lead to arguments and discrepancies. In fact oftentimes, such > descriptions and discussions are futile because an astrological > reading can be explained in many ways. It is the reason why different > systems and ayanamshas can coexist so effectively. This used to > bother me a lot in my younger days, but not anymore! But this is one > pudding that must be tasted personally, or it would not make sense to > some or perhaps many. > > > RR > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish > wrote: > >snip> Since, I am just an ordinary member of the forum and the only > way, i could contribute to the jyotish community (not restricted to > this forum) is to process something in line with my mission to the > subject (even with less experience, predictive abilities and > intellect). Hence, I have decided to host a jyotish portal in next > few weeks - with the following agenda: >> >> - free membership (and free web promotion) - I will bear all costs > for it, including technical costs and hosting costs >> -members to post articles freely >> -members to host files for downloading including software >> -jyotish resource compilation (blogs, software, articles, web > resources etc) >> -forums to facilitate free discussions - restricted to serious > astrological discussions(no free chart reading requests) - well > segregated into categories and moderatd by members (chosen within the > member panel) >> -astrologer's profile and directory service (for various cities) - > where members will have freedom to get online payments and offer > services >> - seperate section to all jyotish branches without prejudices - so > that students/astrologers can pursue their interest - without any > limitation >> - most importantly - promotion of local astrologers, who are full > of rich knowledge >> >> Even with lesser number of members, I will be happy for the > seriousness of the subjects and for the fact that most contents will > not be around reading requests. >> >> As my astrologer friend always tells me that we all will die > someday, so let us do something for the community. and I wish, I can > implement the plan in immediate future. >> >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> >> This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." >> > ><snip> __________ Free 2GB Email - Online Storage, Effective Spam Protection, Calendar & more! Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji I am thinking to have the technical process done and leave it to be managed by members (for forums, members should be the moderators for each different area / technique). The biggest challenge comes in for contents, as this is more around resources. I have spoken to few author friends, and they have agreed to facilitate their writings on the articles / contents as well. Another issue, which I wanted to address was quick online recknor for siginifications (rashi / graha / constellation / sub wise). Once this library is built, visitors can quickly search and it can help in predictive astrology for jyotish students. In addition to this, I also plan to facilitate (free of cost) the same technical model for individual astrologers (primarily who are authors on blog/print media / online media), who may prefer independent web site (and do not have technical / time related constraints for content driven web). This will also help in serving the jyotish community. I do not really plan to duplicate the resources / articles available on other websites. Instead, I will prefer to create a quick links to those resources (categorized one) for easier navigation. Certainly, I will be needing all good wishes and help from time to time. regards / Prafulla Gang "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." > > jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com > Fri, 28 Jul 2006 02:33:16 -0000 > > Re: Edited post re Prafulla's forum > > Dear Prafulla, > > I always felt (knew?) in my heart that jyotish could only benefit > from someone with real management experience! Tbere have been > glimpses of hope in the past decade or two! > > May (our/my) prayers get answered in this reality! > > We are behind you -- all 82.5%! I am realistic as you know, and I > observe past trends!! > > Ranjan > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish > wrote: >> >> Dear Ranjan ji >> >> Many thanks for your inspiring note. >> >> I have passed the broad specification sheet to my technical team > and have sought the timeline from them. It will be more of resource > portal (forum being part of it). I am still in process of structuring > chart reading area (seperate - perhaps run through classified > section). >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> >> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained > by stupidity." >> >> >>> >>> jyotish_vani >>> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:41:00 -0000 >>> >>> Edited post re Prafulla's forum >>> >>> Prafulla, >>> >>> This is a wonderful idea! My best wishes for a very successful >>> jyotish portal. Your idea of separating the reading areas from >>> discussion areas is a very good one. I have seen a few ancient and >>> recent ones with that kind of structure. There is a lot of > interest >>> in readers about getting a proper reading and many realize that >>> astrologers are humans too and have different motivations for the >>> types of energy exchange possible. Some may take the dharmic- > karmic >>> payment, others may prefer more tangible currency! Having each >>> astrologer decide how best his or her needs are met is the right > way >>> to proceed. This way, those who want to do the practice or focus > on >>> readings do not have to describe the process which is always > longer >>> than writing out a reading. And no matter how well described, the >>> description is never complete, or comprehensive and can > potentially >>> lead to arguments and discrepancies. In fact oftentimes, such >>> descriptions and discussions are futile because an astrological >>> reading can be explained in many ways. It is the reason why > different >>> systems and ayanamshas can coexist so effectively. This used to >>> bother me a lot in my younger days, but not anymore! But this is > one >>> pudding that must be tasted personally, or it would not make > sense to >>> some or perhaps many. >>> >>> >>> RR >>> >>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> >>> wrote: >>> >snip> Since, I am just an ordinary member of the forum and the > only >>> way, i could contribute to the jyotish community (not restricted > to >>> this forum) is to process something in line with my mission to the >>> subject (even with less experience, predictive abilities and >>> intellect). Hence, I have decided to host a jyotish portal in next >>> few weeks - with the following agenda: >>>> >>>> - free membership (and free web promotion) - I will bear all > costs >>> for it, including technical costs and hosting costs >>>> -members to post articles freely >>>> -members to host files for downloading including software >>>> -jyotish resource compilation (blogs, software, articles, web >>> resources etc) >>>> -forums to facilitate free discussions - restricted to serious >>> astrological discussions(no free chart reading requests) - well >>> segregated into categories and moderatd by members (chosen within > the >>> member panel) >>>> -astrologer's profile and directory service (for various > cities) - >>> where members will have freedom to get online payments and offer >>> services >>>> - seperate section to all jyotish branches without prejudices - > so >>> that students/astrologers can pursue their interest - without any >>> limitation >>>> - most importantly - promotion of local astrologers, who are full >>> of rich knowledge >>>> >>>> Even with lesser number of members, I will be happy for the >>> seriousness of the subjects and for the fact that most contents > will >>> not be around reading requests. >>>> >>>> As my astrologer friend always tells me that we all will die >>> someday, so let us do something for the community. and I wish, I > can >>> implement the plan in immediate future. >>>> >>>> >>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>> >>>> This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I > know?." >>>> >>> ><snip> >> >> __________ >> Free 2GB Email - Online Storage, Effective Spam Protection, > Calendar & more! >> Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Shri Prafullji, Your endaveours of creating a Portal as mentioned will be well supported by all. It would be a dream come true for all astrologers. Your ideas of making it multidimensional, and segregating sections as per utility for various approaches,commercial or otherwise, seems to be a expected boon for all interested. Idea of local astrologers, with own web pages, also is certainly heartwarming. My blessings and good wishes with You always. Bhaskar , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji > > I meant to ask for apology for childish behaviour like complaining to moderator (without realizing that provokation leads to such conversation in our daily life..we all face it..and many a times are either side of the story). > > I did not have the idea about who complained..so I wrote with the intention, to clears the feelings. But if you have sought my personal opinion - If it were me, i would have done it again even if reaction has come now; and If i were Shri kumar ji, I will not come back to forum (as I have enough forums / platforms to pursue my selfless interest in the subject). But fortunately, he is much kinder and clean hearted person (in my judgement). Trust me, I am not writing emotionally. and If I were the person who complained - would have written back (immediately after the settling the fire - when things reconciled) to moderator for withdrawl of complaint. > > Bhaskar Bhai - I hope you will agree with me that bad words harms less than bad intentions. and am sure, if one is to judge the event - many (including you) might feel the same way. > > In my personal opinion, I kept on questioning throughout the day - only for the cause.and cause is astrology. How many astrologers did you observe on this forum - contributing to the astrology ? Very few..and losing one of very few on the forum is certainly loss to the forum. Perhaps, it is my sense of belonging to the forum. I will like to be standing with the member for unwarranted action than living philosophically on the forum. I do not want to get into good / bad side of the story; but certainly, forum's loss is not good. > > Coming to your view of rationale of prediction / remedy; I have voiced the purpose of forum and necessity of providing rationale / astrological reason with any prediction. In the event, such rationale need not be given (for variety of reasons) on the forum, then these readings can be posted privately to the querents. To me, it will save my mail box from junk mails. Having said that, i must agree with the plight of astrologers offering such service (including Ashutosh ji - I presume, your reaction was to his honest mail). Even with the personal difficulties (as he mentioned), he is continuing to assist people. The cause is always bigger than its appearance. I agree to his rationale that except few astrologers (or students) - no one is bothered in serious discussions and also with the fact that it is easier to argue than to predict. I tried to put myself into his shoe, and felt bad for his experinces too. I felt the same for Shri kumar ji as well, just for the basic fact that, he was target in many such provoking threads (even few members were posting under different identities). I do not have predictive abilities and have no issues in confessing it; but within the constraints (time / energy / intellect), I try to put my technical views. I too, was questioned for departure from few fundamentals, but was never provoked or "attacked". In my opportunties for personal advise on my chart - I prefer to opt for private mail (except when we discuss technical issues on the forum) and will rarely get into arguments for the rationale. Even for chart reading with local astrologer(s), I listen to them and will not argue with their reasonings. > > Since, I am just an ordinary member of the forum and the only way, i could contribute to the jyotish community (not restricted to this forum) is to process something in line with my mission to the subject (even with less experience, predictive abilities and intellect). Hence, I have decided to host a jyotish portal in next few weeks - with the following agenda: > > - free membership (and free web promotion) - I will bear all costs for it, including technical costs and hosting costs > -members to post articles freely > -members to host files for downloading including software > -jyotish resource compilation (blogs, software, articles, web resources etc) > -forums to facilitate free discussions - restricted to serious astrological discussions(no free chart reading requests) - well segregated into categories and moderatd by members (chosen within the member panel) > -astrologer's profile and directory service (for various cities) - where members will have freedom to get online payments and offer services > - seperate section to all jyotish branches without prejudices - so that students/astrologers can pursue their interest - without any limitation > - most importantly - promotion of local astrologers, who are full of rich knowledge > > Even with lesser number of members, I will be happy for the seriousness of the subjects and for the fact that most contents will not be around reading requests. > > As my astrologer friend always tells me that we all will die someday, so let us do something for the community. and I wish, I can implement the plan in immediate future. > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish > > Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:43:22 -0000 > > > > Re: WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > > > > Dear Prafullji, > > > > You have referred a couple of times about the offending member not > > apologizing. > > Suppose I tellYou I have done the complaint ?Then does it matter ? I > > have already apolozised. Would You want me to apolozise again ? > > Two times if i apolozise and will not be the offending member asked > > to apolozise once for using that language ? > > Will it sound proper judgemental ? > > And suppose the complaint had been made that time when I was hurt ? > > But effects have come now ? Who is to blame ? > > But now the matters have been cleared and all are okay with each > > other. > > Still would You like the offending member to apolozise when he has no > > qualms with the offended member at present ? > > Things will not change. Language has to be clean. No doubt. and in > > the same vein provocation should not exist . > > > > This mail was addressed to You again in support, that I too do not > > like or justify predictions without any supporting logic behind it. > > > > You will notice that i too do not participate in casual readings > > about stupid love affairs and meaningless idiotic queries related to > > such type of subjects. Unless its medical, or grave urgency I never > > go for prediction. > > > > Theres no harm in being professional,that means not giving free > > predictions, beacuse otherwise people tend to take advantage of You. > > I have been facing this for last 20 years of free predictions until > > my Guruji told me last year to stop giving free predictions.But yet > > Shri Prafullji I have atleast 3 horoscopes everyday coming to me from > > close relatives asking for silly replies without any fees, and of > > course You cant ask Your close relatives to give money for advice, > > > > Hope this clears me as to why I am addressing You. Just so that > > someone will listen. > > > > Regards, > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Bhaskar Bhai > >> > >> Today seems to be real rough day..since morning, I am into > > something or else. Yes, had few very pleasant conversations too. > >> > >> I do not know, how this subject has come up now? I am clueless. Is > > it related to any of my post? If it relates to anyone's post..we can > > post our view while quoting their respective mails. > >> > >> Why is this thread addressed to me? I am neither moderator nor > > senior member. I can not question anyone, except myself. > >> > >> Still, for the sake of clarity, I will post my views. > >> > >> For example - I had feeling that, participating astrologers must > > define their rationale for prediction. As it helps jyotish students > > on the forum (and please correct me, If I have not understood the > > cause of forum. it is not free reading room..if it is, then the > > astrologer can reply privately). I posted this view quite explicitly > > on this forum and other forums too. But, as I read the mail of > > Ashutosh ji and his reasonings, I felt bad the way - such free > > reading service is misused by casual members. So I agreed with his > > feelings but expressed my opinion (selfish motive) too. > >> > >> I presumed the forum as jyotish forum for astrologers and at some > > stage, when mail box is flooded with junk mails carrying rediculous > > questions (like how many girl friends etc, which are less meaningful > > in life compared to questions relating to health, marital issues, > > progeny etc), it hurts. It not only hurts the way casual approach is > > taken by querents, but also for the respect people have for jyotish. > > Under all this mess, there is hardly serious participation on jyotish > > subjects by larger audience. Very few have been kind enough to share > > their experiences / knowledge. If this is all, what moderator is > > aiming at - then there is no point in debating this. I feel that, let > > there be open debate on the objective of this forum and code of > > conduct in terms of astrological interpretation. If it does not serve > > our personal preferences, we (many more like me), may choose to > > continue or withdraw. > >> > >> On couple of occasions, people post their own chart - without > > disclosing the idenity and later date, disclosure is made. Many more > > will agree with me on some of these practices, I have observed in > > this list ( mentioned as well on another thread about such request > > related previaling trends and best way to approach). What sort of > > trust are we building with each other..If we do not want to disclose, > > no issues..but why disclosures within few days..I do not know, if > > these are intentional or unintentional..but does not reflect bonding > > with the forum. On the top of it, privacy intrusion is made to those > > chart reading service givers (Pandit Arjun ji, Shri Kumar ji, and > > Ashutosh ji posted their issues - and we must respect their feelings. > > But instead of appreciating their contribution on the forum, members > > ridiculed them for their dissatisfaction). In couple of occasions, i > > observed multiple idenity driven posts to the forum. I am sure, many > > more can see all these through - and yes, might not have preferred to > > react. > >> > >> Bhaskar ji, I do not participate in any of casual reading > > requests / generalized requests or the requests posted on multiple > > forums. But did you notice - the way, people frame their conversation > > to provoke for the readings? Do you feel, it leaves the serving > > members with good taste. I have been observing it all for quite some > > time, but blocking those mails in the mail box seems to be the best > > emerging solution. > >> > >> I try my best to skip any confrontation on the forum. and if > > required (and when I do not agree with another astrologer's opinion / > > remedy), I do post privately to the member. The purpose is not to > > torment the flow of the thread. For example - I do not agree to > > blanket remedies or fatalistic predictions and, at times, I opt to > > post privately. > >> > >> I too, have been party to astrological debates, but for past few > > weeks - it got extended to personal prejudices and statements. Though > > not welcome mode of discussion, but are we not matured to deal with > > those. But, ego (??) caused the moderator's intervention and another > > bad event - banning of Shri Kumar ji. I am sorry to note that, even > > then the offended (??) member did not have courage to apologize to > > the forum for this childish act of referring the matter to moderator. > >> > >> regards / Prafulla Gang > >> > >> This notion is more clearly understood by asking "What do I know?." > >> > >> > >>> > >>> bhaskar_jyotish@ > >>> Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:24:40 -0000 > >>> > >>> WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > >>> > >>> Shri Prafullji, > >>> > >>> With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > >>> ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query > > asked . > >>> If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these > > have > >>> to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > >>> the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > >>> replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > >>> predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give > > a 20 > >>> page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > >>> quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When > > You > >>> say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second > > class. > >>> The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > >>> study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > >>> best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > >>> horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap > > the > >>> others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If > > this is > >>> the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > >>> help) > >>> When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > >>> same thing after some time to the native with no logic or > > reasoning > >>> then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > >>> that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is > > a > >>> public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > >>> extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You > > want to > >>> hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You > > are > >>> tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > >>> predict/ > >>> I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > >>> happy. > >>> We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith > > the > >>> prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > >>> Even I will learn from elders. > >>> Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > >>> I dont need copycats but real originators. > >>> Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > >>> > >>> Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > >>> > >>> Bhaskar., > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Bhaskar, You are new to this group. There have been so many mindless arguments here that many like me do not feel like explaining. And, moreover, why should I or anyone reveal what we have learned through hard work and self-research, on such groups whose posts are being copied to another websites. If anyone has a different prediction than what is being made, he should go ahead and say so. No one has the right to demand explanations without giving his/her own reasons to think differently. It is very easy for me to make some childish explanations like "your jupiter is in lagna and you are running sade sati". That way I can easily hide my true inferences and reasons and yet give an impression that I have explained. If thats what you need, then forgive me, I cannot be that idiotic. As far as jyotish learning is concerned, I have a private group on which has only a handfull of members, but all are good astrologers from different parts of world. There we discuss openly on all forms of astrology. If I think anyone is deserving enough to be a member there, he/she will be invited to join the group totally free of cost. Regards, Ashutosh - bhaskar_jyotish Thursday, 27 July, 2006 22:54 WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? Shri Prafullji, With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query asked . If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these have to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a 20 page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When You say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second class. The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap the others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this is the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for help) When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the same thing after some time to the native with no logic or reasoning then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is a public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want to hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You are tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I predict/ I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be happy. We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith the prediction made to a native on a public Forum. Even I will learn from elders. Call it a slfish motive or whatever. I dont need copycats but real originators. Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. Bhaskar., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Ashutoshji, Agree to most of what You have to say. Yes some principles which You may have learnt by own research, hard work, burning midnight oil and toil, cannot be just put up for all to view. Its of course not mandatory for anyone to provide explanation- technical alongwith prediction. Yes even when demanded, it is not possible to give complete detailed logic and line of reasoning applied when presenting results. At the same time yesterday when some call came for Life and Death query, wherein reply was required whether baby would live or not, here and in such type of queries, some technical reasoning if given alongwith prediction gives some substance to the readers. Just saying Dont worry , all will be fine, baby will live, no fears, etc.etc. does not sound convincing. Now whether even after explanation given for such queries alongwith prediction, if the prediction fails, then we can discuss why it has failed . But otherwise it is a postmartem beyond retrieve, which means after Tsunami has come, we come up with various theories of the cause, or after bomb blast we figure and produce umpteen theories as to the star configurations cause. Hope You got my point Shri Ashotoshji, nothing personal. Even I would personally not reveal at all times all my methods used at replying. Hope this disssolves differences, if any. Bhaskar. , "astrologerashutosh" <astrologerashutosh wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar, > > You are new to this group. There have been so many mindless arguments here that many like me do not feel like explaining. > > And, moreover, why should I or anyone reveal what we have learned through hard work and self-research, on such groups whose posts are being copied to another websites. > > If anyone has a different prediction than what is being made, he should go ahead and say so. No one has the right to demand explanations without giving his/her own reasons to think differently. > > It is very easy for me to make some childish explanations like "your jupiter is in lagna and you are running sade sati". That way I can easily hide my true inferences and reasons and yet give an impression that I have explained. If thats what you need, then forgive me, I cannot be that idiotic. > > As far as jyotish learning is concerned, I have a private group on which has only a handfull of members, but all are good astrologers from different parts of world. There we discuss openly on all forms of astrology. If I think anyone is deserving enough to be a member there, he/she will be invited to join the group totally free of cost. > > > Regards, > > Ashutosh > > > > - > bhaskar_jyotish > > Thursday, 27 July, 2006 22:54 > WHAT IS THE LOGIC ? > > > Shri Prafullji, > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query asked . > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these have > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a 20 > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When You > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second class. > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap the > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this is > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > help) > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or reasoning > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is a > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want to > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You are > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > predict/ > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > happy. > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith the > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > Even I will learn from elders. > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > I dont need copycats but real originators. > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > Bhaskar., > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Shri Arjunji, Namste, Sorry could not reply last night or early morning. have enough troubles of my own ....... What are my views ,You must have already guessed by my replies and posts to other people. Yes some weightage has to be there in what we say. We are not Yogis to make proclamations or grant boons to people. There has to be reasoning from our side and since we are not Yogis but normal human, we are bound to be wrong at times, so when already a hypothesis has been given, we dont have to look here and there but work on what was given already to find our mistake. Thanks once again, and, please keep blessing always, Bhaskar. , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear bhaskarji > > you are right in saying that some astrological reasoning is given > while making a prediction so that the querent feels that the answer > is based on astrology. > > when an astrolgoer is giving only simple readings without any > astrolgoical conent, not only querents, even the astrologers ask for > it. for example, sometime ago respected tatvam ji asked mr. > abhishek dhawan to give the basis for his readings as no astrology > content is there is mr. dhawan's readings. > > hence in my knowledge, most readings and predictions in this group > are based only on astrology and if you want any specific reasoning > behind a particular reading, you can always ask for the same, to > understand and learn better. > > with best wishes and blessings > pandit arjun > > , "bhaskar_jyotish" > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Shri Prafullji, > > > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query > asked . > > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these > have > > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a > 20 > > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When > You > > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second > class. > > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap > the > > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this > is > > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > > help) > > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or > reasoning > > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is > a > > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want > to > > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You > are > > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > > predict/ > > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > > happy. > > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith > the > > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > > Even I will learn from elders. > > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > > I dont need copycats but real originators. > > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > > > Bhaskar., > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Astrologers, The asking for reasons is the very right of the person seeking predictions. Hoevever, there may be at times things which comes to the astrologer on intuition and internal power, against which the reason which he gives may seem like incorrect. Hence, the asking for reasons in detail should be approached very rarely and only if in a very learning fashion which will help everyone understand astrology better and spread this wonderful science. May God Bless you, bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Shri Arjunji, Namste, Sorry could not reply last night or early morning. have enough troubles of my own ....... What are my views ,You must have already guessed by my replies and posts to other people. Yes some weightage has to be there in what we say. We are not Yogis to make proclamations or grant boons to people. There has to be reasoning from our side and since we are not Yogis but normal human, we are bound to be wrong at times, so when already a hypothesis has been given, we dont have to look here and there but work on what was given already to find our mistake. Thanks once again, and, please keep blessing always, Bhaskar. , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear bhaskarji > > you are right in saying that some astrological reasoning is given > while making a prediction so that the querent feels that the answer > is based on astrology. > > when an astrolgoer is giving only simple readings without any > astrolgoical conent, not only querents, even the astrologers ask for > it. for example, sometime ago respected tatvam ji asked mr. > abhishek dhawan to give the basis for his readings as no astrology > content is there is mr. dhawan's readings. > > hence in my knowledge, most readings and predictions in this group > are based only on astrology and if you want any specific reasoning > behind a particular reading, you can always ask for the same, to > understand and learn better. > > with best wishes and blessings > pandit arjun > > , "bhaskar_jyotish" > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Shri Prafullji, > > > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query > asked . > > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these > have > > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give a > 20 > > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When > You > > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second > class. > > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope and > > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for judging > > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap > the > > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If this > is > > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > > help) > > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm the > > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or > reasoning > > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is > a > > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. What > > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You want > to > > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You > are > > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how I > > predict/ > > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and be > > happy. > > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith > the > > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > > Even I will learn from elders. > > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > > I dont need copycats but real originators. > > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > > > Bhaskar., > > > ACA Sumit Bajaj Consultant (Technical Analyst and Astrologer) "Keep smiling and be positive with confidence" Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Very true Sumitji, agreed to all You have mentioned. Regards, Bhaskar. , Sumit Bajaj <sumitbajaj2000 wrote: > > Dear Astrologers, > > The asking for reasons is the very right of the person seeking predictions. Hoevever, there may be at times things which comes to the astrologer on intuition and internal power, against which the reason which he gives may seem like incorrect. Hence, the asking for reasons in detail should be approached very rarely and only if in a very learning fashion which will help everyone understand astrology better and spread this wonderful science. > > May God Bless you, > > bhaskar_jyotish <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > Shri Arjunji, > Namste, > Sorry could not reply last night or early morning. have enough > troubles of my own ....... What are my views ,You must have already > guessed by my replies and posts to other people. > Yes some weightage has to be there in what we say. We are not Yogis to > make proclamations or grant boons to people. There has to be > reasoning from our side and since we are not Yogis but normal human, > we are bound to be wrong at times, so when already a hypothesis has > been given, we dont have to look here and there but work on what was > given already to find our mistake. > > Thanks once again, and, > please keep blessing always, > > Bhaskar. > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear bhaskarji > > > > you are right in saying that some astrological reasoning is given > > while making a prediction so that the querent feels that the answer > > is based on astrology. > > > > when an astrolgoer is giving only simple readings without any > > astrolgoical conent, not only querents, even the astrologers ask > for > > it. for example, sometime ago respected tatvam ji asked mr. > > abhishek dhawan to give the basis for his readings as no astrology > > content is there is mr. dhawan's readings. > > > > hence in my knowledge, most readings and predictions in this group > > are based only on astrology and if you want any specific reasoning > > behind a particular reading, you can always ask for the same, to > > understand and learn better. > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > pandit arjun > > > > , "bhaskar_jyotish" > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Prafullji, > > > > > > With this I wish to bring to Your notice.,at many places self > > > ordained astrologers give a simple straight reply to the query > > asked . > > > If the Reply is Yes or No to at least 100 people, half of these > > have > > > to be corrrect as per law of probabalities. does this mean that > > > the astrologer is right ? I dont think so. Every astrologer while > > > replying should give his logic and reasoning for the basis of his > > > predictions , otherwise what is the meaning ? I do not mean give > a > > 20 > > > page lecture like we have seen in Mr.Prasannmanns chart whom he > > > quoted the best (Which I feel is not the right thing to do. When > > You > > > say someone the best it means You relegate the rest to second > > class. > > > The rest too have spent so much time on the patients horoscope > and > > > study.If a reply which is lengthy is the sole criteria for > judging > > > best or worst then god help. I believe whoever worked on that > > > horoscope had equal concern for the native in question. You slap > > the > > > others when You judge someone the best and rest the worst. If > this > > is > > > the response then no one will hear the SOS for genuine calls for > > > help) > > > When some other astrologer has already replied and You confirm > the > > > same thing after some time to the native with no logic or > > reasoning > > > then what does it mean ? If I am a real astrologer I will not say > > > that i dont want to disclose how I predict to the public, this is > > a > > > public forum and all that crap . I will do this without fear. > What > > > extra knowledge can anyone have apart from intuition that You > want > > to > > > hide ? And if You have intuition then it means already that You > > are > > > tuned to God. You will not talk that I dont want to disclose how > I > > > predict/ > > > I am sorry Shri Prafullji I cannot take this nonsense talks and > be > > > happy. > > > We definitely need to have certain inkling of reasoning alongwith > > the > > > prediction made to a native on a public Forum. > > > Even I will learn from elders. > > > Call it a slfish motive or whatever. > > > I dont need copycats but real originators. > > > Provide substance to Your prediction or dont predict. > > > > > > Hope You understood what I am trying to say to others Prafullji. > > > > > > Bhaskar., > > > > > > > > > > > > ACA Sumit Bajaj > Consultant > (Technical Analyst and Astrologer) > "Keep smiling and be positive with confidence" > > > > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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