Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something that resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, never really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for those who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) to ponder upon! , Pratap wrote > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > where you were not born ...>> Dear Pratap ji, I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you made in another context and simply attribute it to you for propriety and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I am attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly on this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special plea because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home but a few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not why ... That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. This is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any farther, just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people who were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago but became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal definition of a foreign country is that you have a different passport and need travel papers, like a visa). If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe and when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to Karachi (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his birthplace in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? What about his children born in India (before independence), Pakistan (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most of their formative lives. I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the next generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India and moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have the 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America and England, for instance? I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals who were born in evolving borders separating the countries and countries that have been established as unique entities for some time. A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a few decades ago. How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or geographically or as classics portrayed them? How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that fateful collision of landmasses! Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), too ... whatever! I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone else. I just want to thank those who read this post and took a few seconds to ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding the rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from the country's perspective and not the individual's!! Thanks, Rohiniranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Pardon my english! I should have ended my post with one of the languages of the soul: VASUDAIVA KUTUMBAKAM! and Another equally important as well: Mea Culpa! rohiniranjan <It *is* a LARGE tent if you trust my personal experience ... but ... you have got to trust me first!> , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something that > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, never > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for those > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) to > ponder upon! > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for propriety > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I am > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly on > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special plea > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home but a > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not why ... > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. This > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any farther, > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people who > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago but > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different passport > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe and > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to Karachi > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his birthplace > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > What about his children born in India (before independence), Pakistan > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most of > their formative lives. > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the next > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India and > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have the > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America and > England, for instance? > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals who > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and countries > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a few > decades ago. > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that > fateful collision of landmasses! > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), too ... > whatever! > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone else. I > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few seconds to > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding the > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from the > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > Thanks, > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear RRji, My goal was very simple. I have a feeling that one of the most common question that astrologers in India are being asked by young people is 'When am I going to foreign?' In this context, 'foreign' would mean away from home somewhere where you need a visa or some sort of permission to go and work for better prosperity. My goal was to find a tool or something that an astrologer could use to give an educated answer to the native. I am sure they can answer the query about 'Foreign', with existing tools and knowledge. My interest in this is purely academic. I just love to solve puzzles and find some rules so that you can solve puzzles all the time. Right now I happen to have a lot of time on my hand which I am using to solve this puzzle using whatever little I have grasped from classics. I am in 'foreign' for almost 40 years now therefore the solution of this puzzle doesn't affect me one way or other. I agree that one can write a whole book on the definition of word 'foreign'. I don't have any answers for all the complexities you have exposed nor I am capable of addressing them. You love philosophy and I love 2+2=4. I am sure you can write a whole book on why 2+2 can not be = 4 under some circumstances. Please understand that this paragraph is written as compliments to you. With Regards, Pratap crystal pages <jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something that resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, never really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for those who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) to ponder upon! , Pratap wrote > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > where you were not born ...>> Dear Pratap ji, I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you made in another context and simply attribute it to you for propriety and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I am attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly on this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special plea because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home but a few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not why ... That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. This is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any farther, just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people who were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago but became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal definition of a foreign country is that you have a different passport and need travel papers, like a visa). If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe and when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to Karachi (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his birthplace in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? What about his children born in India (before independence), Pakistan (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most of their formative lives. I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the next generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India and moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have the 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America and England, for instance? I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals who were born in evolving borders separating the countries and countries that have been established as unique entities for some time. A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a few decades ago. How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or geographically or as classics portrayed them? How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that fateful collision of landmasses! Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), too ... whatever! I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone else. I just want to thank those who read this post and took a few seconds to ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding the rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from the country's perspective and not the individual's!! Thanks, Rohiniranjan SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Pratap ji, I am touched by your prompt response, really! It makes me feel that my posting was important and immediate to at least one person, You! I understand your reluctance to ponder upon this issue which you call philosophical and compare to writing a book, etc. But the example I shared was real and not hyptothetical or philosophical. Within the span of some fifty or so years or a bit longer, countries of birth do become foreign countries. Some of us may rather not be bothered with such details and speedbumps but they do exist :-) I just hope not too many jyotishis run into those -- but I cannot guarantee that! RR , Pratap Kaneria <pkaneria wrote: > > Dear RRji, > > My goal was very simple. I have a feeling that one of the most common question that astrologers in India are being asked by young people is 'When am I going to foreign?' In this context, 'foreign' would mean away from home somewhere where you need a visa or some sort of permission to go and work for better prosperity. My goal was to find a tool or something that an astrologer could use to give an educated answer to the native. I am sure they can answer the query about 'Foreign', with existing tools and knowledge. My interest in this is purely academic. I just love to solve puzzles and find some rules so that you can solve puzzles all the time. Right now I happen to have a lot of time on my hand which I am using to solve this puzzle using whatever little I have grasped from classics. I am in 'foreign' for almost 40 years now therefore the solution of this puzzle doesn't affect me one way or other. > > I agree that one can write a whole book on the definition of word 'foreign'. I don't have any answers for all the complexities you have exposed nor I am capable of addressing them. You love philosophy and I love 2+2=4. I am sure you can write a whole book on why 2+2 can not be = 4 under some circumstances. Please understand that this paragraph is written as compliments to you. > > With Regards, > > Pratap > > crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something that > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, never > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for those > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) to > ponder upon! > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for propriety > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I am > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly on > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special plea > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home but a > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not why ... > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. This > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any farther, > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people who > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago but > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different passport > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe and > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to Karachi > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his birthplace > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > What about his children born in India (before independence), Pakistan > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most of > their formative lives. > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the next > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India and > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have the > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America and > England, for instance? > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals who > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and countries > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a few > decades ago. > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that > fateful collision of landmasses! > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), too ... > whatever! > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone else. I > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few seconds to > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding the > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from the > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > Thanks, > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 ||Hare Rama Krsna || Dear RRji, I was wondering about - What is foreign? I feel that when a person goes away from home to a culturally different place, it is foreign. It may even be within the same country. If a north Indian goes to a culturally different South India for a job, then I think it is a foreign place for him. Yet for people who were born before partition of India, for example in Punjab, and then Punjab was divided with the Partition and they had to move across the border. I dont think it is a foreign country for them. Regards, Divya , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something that > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, never > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for those > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) to > ponder upon! > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for propriety > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I am > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly on > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special plea > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home but a > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not why ... > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. This > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any farther, > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people who > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago but > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different passport > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe and > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to Karachi > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his birthplace > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > What about his children born in India (before independence), Pakistan > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most of > their formative lives. > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the next > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India and > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have the > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America and > England, for instance? > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals who > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and countries > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a few > decades ago. > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that > fateful collision of landmasses! > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), too ... > whatever! > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone else. I > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few seconds to > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding the > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from the > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > Thanks, > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I too have this query exactly what is the meaning of foreign in astrology ? In India itself North to South if one travels 2500 lkms it is not foreign but suppose we travel 200 kms from Gujarat border to Paksitan it would be considered as foreign. So how to gauge when some one asks whether he will go to foreign trip ? Does it mean in kilomtres, or new cultures North/south ,or people having different lifestyles and language not spoken by us ? Or does it mean travelling over the sea by air,or ship ? Or does it just mean reasonably away from where one is staying ? Bhaskar. Bhaskar. , "Divya" <touchbase_divya wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear RRji, > > I was wondering about - What is foreign? > > I feel that when a person goes away from home to a culturally > different place, it is foreign. It may even be within the same > country. If a north Indian goes to a culturally different South India > for a job, then I think it is a foreign place for him. > > Yet for people who were born before partition of India, for example > in Punjab, and then Punjab was divided with the Partition and they > had to move across the border. I dont think it is a foreign country > for them. > > Regards, > Divya > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a > > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something that > > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, > never > > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for > those > > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) to > > ponder upon! > > > > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you > > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for > propriety > > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to > > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I am > > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly on > > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special plea > > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home but > a > > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not why ... > > > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. > This > > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any > farther, > > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people > who > > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago > but > > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal > > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different > passport > > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe and > > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to Karachi > > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. > > > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his > birthplace > > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > > > What about his children born in India (before independence), > Pakistan > > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most > of > > their formative lives. > > > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the next > > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India > and > > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have > the > > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for > > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America and > > England, for instance? > > > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals who > > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and > countries > > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a few > > decades ago. > > > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or > > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the > > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with > > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that > > fateful collision of landmasses! > > > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other > > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), > too ... > > whatever! > > > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone else. > I > > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few seconds > to > > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many > > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding > the > > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best > > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from > the > > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 dear bhaskarji centuries ago, foreign means crossing the sea. shankaracharyas were then prohibited to crosss the seas until the shankaracharya, shri bharati krishna tirdhaji of govardhan matt travelled to US crossing the seas for the first time. in olden days, crossing the sea was treated in bad light as if the native could not earn food for himself in the homeland and had to migrate to another land crossing the seas to eke livelihood. but in the changed world scenario or the new world order, IT revolution has made the entire world a GLOBAL VILLAGE and most indians are more successful abroad than in india. in my homestate andhra pradesh, once upon a time there used to be starvation deaths every year in the drought prone rayalaseema and telangana areas as they are not that developed compared to the andhra region which has several rivers and was rich in agriculture. however, as on date, it is no exaggeration if i say that ONE MEMBER of each family from andhra pradesh is in abroad and has made his or her entire family in india lead a much happier and comfortable life. similar is the story in most parts of the country. with this backdrop, HELP OF RAHU comes handy for a native in going abroad and earn millions. with best wishes pandit arjun , "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > I too have this query exactly what is the meaning of foreign in > astrology ? In India itself North to South if one travels 2500 lkms > it is not foreign but suppose we travel 200 kms from Gujarat border > to Paksitan it would be considered as foreign. So how to gauge when > some one asks whether he will go to foreign trip ? Does it mean > in kilomtres, or new cultures North/south ,or people having different > lifestyles and language not spoken by us ? Or does it mean travelling > over the sea by air,or ship ? Or does it just mean reasonably away > from where one is staying ? > > Bhaskar. > > Bhaskar. > > > > , "Divya" > <touchbase_divya@> wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > Dear RRji, > > > > I was wondering about - What is foreign? > > > > I feel that when a person goes away from home to a culturally > > different place, it is foreign. It may even be within the same > > country. If a north Indian goes to a culturally different South > India > > for a job, then I think it is a foreign place for him. > > > > Yet for people who were born before partition of India, for example > > in Punjab, and then Punjab was divided with the Partition and they > > had to move across the border. I dont think it is a foreign country > > for them. > > > > Regards, > > Divya > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a > > > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something > that > > > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, > > never > > > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for > > those > > > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) > to > > > ponder upon! > > > > > > > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > > > > > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > > > > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you > > > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for > > propriety > > > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to > > > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I > am > > > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly > on > > > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special > plea > > > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home > but > > a > > > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not > why ... > > > > > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > > > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. > > This > > > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any > > farther, > > > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people > > who > > > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago > > but > > > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal > > > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different > > passport > > > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > > > > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe > and > > > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to > Karachi > > > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. > > > > > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his > > birthplace > > > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > > > > > What about his children born in India (before independence), > > Pakistan > > > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > > > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most > > of > > > their formative lives. > > > > > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the > next > > > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India > > and > > > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have > > the > > > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for > > > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America > and > > > England, for instance? > > > > > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals > who > > > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and > > countries > > > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > > > > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a > few > > > decades ago. > > > > > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or > > > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > > > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the > > > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with > > > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > > > > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that > > > fateful collision of landmasses! > > > > > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other > > > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), > > too ... > > > whatever! > > > > > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone > else. > > I > > > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few > seconds > > to > > > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many > > > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding > > the > > > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best > > > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from > > the > > > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Shri Arjunji, Sir,Rahu it seems is one of important factors for sending man to foreign soil,if not always but contributory factor. About telangana and other areas I have heard about the problems even when I was small child. Yes I know at least 1 member from every family from Andhra must be earning in foreign and keeping the balance, staying here in good condition. And many have earned quite good money overtaking the lordship status of local big men of their own hometowns in Andhra. Regards, Bhaskar. , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear bhaskarji > > centuries ago, foreign means crossing the sea. shankaracharyas were > then prohibited to crosss the seas until the shankaracharya, shri > bharati krishna tirdhaji of govardhan matt travelled to US crossing > the seas for the first time. > > in olden days, crossing the sea was treated in bad light as if the > native could not earn food for himself in the homeland and had to > migrate to another land crossing the seas to eke livelihood. > > but in the changed world scenario or the new world order, IT > revolution has made the entire world a GLOBAL VILLAGE and most > indians are more successful abroad than in india. > > in my homestate andhra pradesh, once upon a time there used to be > starvation deaths every year in the drought prone rayalaseema and > telangana areas as they are not that developed compared to the > andhra region which has several rivers and was rich in agriculture. > however, as on date, it is no exaggeration if i say that ONE MEMBER > of each family from andhra pradesh is in abroad and has made his or > her entire family in india lead a much happier and comfortable > life. similar is the story in most parts of the country. > > with this backdrop, HELP OF RAHU comes handy for a native in going > abroad and earn millions. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "bhaskar_jyotish" > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > I too have this query exactly what is the meaning of foreign in > > astrology ? In India itself North to South if one travels 2500 > lkms > > it is not foreign but suppose we travel 200 kms from Gujarat > border > > to Paksitan it would be considered as foreign. So how to gauge > when > > some one asks whether he will go to foreign trip ? Does it mean > > in kilomtres, or new cultures North/south ,or people having > different > > lifestyles and language not spoken by us ? Or does it mean > travelling > > over the sea by air,or ship ? Or does it just mean reasonably away > > from where one is staying ? > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > , "Divya" > > <touchbase_divya@> wrote: > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > Dear RRji, > > > > > > I was wondering about - What is foreign? > > > > > > I feel that when a person goes away from home to a culturally > > > different place, it is foreign. It may even be within the same > > > country. If a north Indian goes to a culturally different South > > India > > > for a job, then I think it is a foreign place for him. > > > > > > Yet for people who were born before partition of India, for > example > > > in Punjab, and then Punjab was divided with the Partition and > they > > > had to move across the border. I dont think it is a foreign > country > > > for them. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Divya > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only > a > > > > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something > > that > > > > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, > > > never > > > > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for > > > those > > > > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart > (!) > > to > > > > ponder upon! > > > > > > > > > > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > > > > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > > > > > > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement > you > > > > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for > > > propriety > > > > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to > > > > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that > I > > am > > > > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared > openly > > on > > > > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special > > plea > > > > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home > > but > > > a > > > > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not > > why ... > > > > > > > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > > > > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this > ant. > > > This > > > > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any > > > farther, > > > > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were > people > > > who > > > > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century > ago > > > but > > > > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the > legal > > > > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different > > > passport > > > > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > > > > > > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to > Europe > > and > > > > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to > > Karachi > > > > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle > finally. > > > > > > > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his > > > birthplace > > > > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > > > > > > > What about his children born in India (before independence), > > > Pakistan > > > > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > > > > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for > most > > > of > > > > their formative lives. > > > > > > > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the > > next > > > > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in > India > > > and > > > > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person > have > > > the > > > > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case > for > > > > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America > > and > > > > England, for instance? > > > > > > > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals > > who > > > > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and > > > countries > > > > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > > > > > > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a > > few > > > > decades ago. > > > > > > > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, > or > > > > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > > > > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of > the > > > > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided > with > > > > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > > > > > > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond > that > > > > fateful collision of landmasses! > > > > > > > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative > (other > > > > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), > > > too ... > > > > whatever! > > > > > > > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone > > else. > > > I > > > > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few > > seconds > > > to > > > > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches > many > > > > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are > feeding > > > the > > > > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The > best > > > > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, > from > > > the > > > > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Friends, Am reading various opinions on foreign travel, residence. Travelling far from home /residence in true sense is travelling abroad,because the comforts of home are changed for better or worse. My case for example: I am so called 'native' of Kakinada,East Godavari Dt.Technically I was born there,just that, no more.I doubt this classification,because I was conceived in Bombay delivered in Kakinada,spent my entire life in Bombay.My parents came to Bombay in 1931/32,10 years before I was born. By relocation astrology,my birth chart should have been recast with Bombay's coordinates.However my Life events are judged with Kakinada as reference.??? As far as Travel abroad is concerned I feel apart from Rahu,other separatitive planets like Sun, Saturn etc are involved.Permanent residence is judged from 12th house,other houses like 9,8,7 and even 3 rd come into play for short visits.This is purely my experience.In my 34 years of aviation experience,I travelled abroad frequently with no specific astrological parameters. I am Taurus person with Jup.Sat in Lagna,12th has Sun,Merc.Rahu in 4th. The world has shrunk,very soon in next generation travel outside this planet will have probably 12th house connections. Astrology needs a revisit. Regards, Satish The fact of the matter is the World has shrunk into an extended village. -- In , "bhaskar_jyotish" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Shri Arjunji, > > Sir,Rahu it seems is one of important factors for sending man to > foreign soil,if not always but contributory factor. > > About telangana and other areas I have heard about the problems even > when I was small child. Yes I know at least 1 member from every > family from Andhra must be earning in foreign and keeping the > balance, staying here in good condition. And many have earned quite > good money overtaking the lordship status of local big men of their > own hometowns in Andhra. > > Regards, > Bhaskar. > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear bhaskarji > > > > centuries ago, foreign means crossing the sea. shankaracharyas > were > > then prohibited to crosss the seas until the shankaracharya, shri > > bharati krishna tirdhaji of govardhan matt travelled to US crossing > > the seas for the first time. > > > > in olden days, crossing the sea was treated in bad light as if the > > native could not earn food for himself in the homeland and had to > > migrate to another land crossing the seas to eke livelihood. > > > > but in the changed world scenario or the new world order, IT > > revolution has made the entire world a GLOBAL VILLAGE and most > > indians are more successful abroad than in india. > > > > in my homestate andhra pradesh, once upon a time there used to be > > starvation deaths every year in the drought prone rayalaseema and > > telangana areas as they are not that developed compared to the > > andhra region which has several rivers and was rich in > agriculture. > > however, as on date, it is no exaggeration if i say that ONE MEMBER > > of each family from andhra pradesh is in abroad and has made his or > > her entire family in india lead a much happier and comfortable > > life. similar is the story in most parts of the country. > > > > with this backdrop, HELP OF RAHU comes handy for a native in going > > abroad and earn millions. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "bhaskar_jyotish" > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > I too have this query exactly what is the meaning of foreign in > > > astrology ? In India itself North to South if one travels 2500 > > lkms > > > it is not foreign but suppose we travel 200 kms from Gujarat > > border > > > to Paksitan it would be considered as foreign. So how to gauge > > when > > > some one asks whether he will go to foreign trip ? Does it mean > > > in kilomtres, or new cultures North/south ,or people having > > different > > > lifestyles and language not spoken by us ? Or does it mean > > travelling > > > over the sea by air,or ship ? Or does it just mean reasonably > away > > > from where one is staying ? > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Divya" > > > <touchbase_divya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear RRji, > > > > > > > > I was wondering about - What is foreign? > > > > > > > > I feel that when a person goes away from home to a culturally > > > > different place, it is foreign. It may even be within the same > > > > country. If a north Indian goes to a culturally different South > > > India > > > > for a job, then I think it is a foreign place for him. > > > > > > > > Yet for people who were born before partition of India, for > > example > > > > in Punjab, and then Punjab was divided with the Partition and > > they > > > > had to move across the border. I dont think it is a foreign > > country > > > > for them. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Divya > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting > only > > a > > > > > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote > something > > > that > > > > > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled > with, > > > > never > > > > > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing > for > > > > those > > > > > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart > > (!) > > > to > > > > > ponder upon! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > > > > > > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > > > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > > > > > > > > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement > > you > > > > > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for > > > > propriety > > > > > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you > to > > > > > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel > that > > I > > > am > > > > > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared > > openly > > > on > > > > > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this > special > > > plea > > > > > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called > home > > > but > > > > a > > > > > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not > > > why ... > > > > > > > > > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > > > > > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this > > ant. > > > > This > > > > > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any > > > > farther, > > > > > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were > > people > > > > who > > > > > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century > > ago > > > > but > > > > > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the > > legal > > > > > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different > > > > passport > > > > > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > > > > > > > > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to > > Europe > > > and > > > > > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to > > > Karachi > > > > > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle > > finally. > > > > > > > > > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his > > > > birthplace > > > > > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > > > > > > > > > What about his children born in India (before independence), > > > > Pakistan > > > > > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > > > > > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for > > most > > > > of > > > > > their formative lives. > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but > the > > > next > > > > > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in > > India > > > > and > > > > > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person > > have > > > > the > > > > > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case > > for > > > > > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in > America > > > and > > > > > England, for instance? > > > > > > > > > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of > individuals > > > who > > > > > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and > > > > countries > > > > > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > > > > > > > > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong > a > > > few > > > > > decades ago. > > > > > > > > > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, > > or > > > > > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > > > > > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of > > the > > > > > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided > > with > > > > > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > > > > > > > > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond > > that > > > > > fateful collision of landmasses! > > > > > > > > > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative > > (other > > > > > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), > > > > too ... > > > > > whatever! > > > > > > > > > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone > > > else. > > > > I > > > > > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few > > > seconds > > > > to > > > > > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches > > many > > > > > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are > > feeding > > > > the > > > > > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The > > best > > > > > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, > > from > > > > the > > > > > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Dear Satish, What You say seems fairly right. Even I was conceived at Calcutta, born at Eluru (Andhra Prad.). and spent whole my life after 1st year of birth,in Bombay. I think the parameters of 12th house and foreign definitions may have to be flexible in todays context with the span of distances being cut down within few hours of travel etc. just as bullock carts of yester years or Horses and raths (Chariots) would be replaced by Cars today. Regards, Bhaskar. , "R Satish" <rsatish1942 wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > > Am reading various opinions on foreign travel, residence. > Travelling far from home /residence in true sense is travelling > abroad,because the comforts of home are changed for better or worse. > > My case for example: > I am so called 'native' of Kakinada,East Godavari Dt.Technically I > was born there,just that, no more.I doubt this > classification,because I was conceived in Bombay delivered in > Kakinada,spent my entire life in Bombay.My parents came to Bombay in > 1931/32,10 years before I was born. > > By relocation astrology,my birth chart should have been recast > with Bombay's coordinates.However my Life events are judged with > Kakinada as reference.??? > > As far as Travel abroad is concerned I feel apart from Rahu,other > separatitive planets like Sun, Saturn etc are involved.Permanent > residence is judged from 12th house,other houses like 9,8,7 and even > 3 rd come into play for short visits.This is purely my experience.In > my 34 years of aviation experience,I travelled abroad frequently > with no specific astrological parameters. I am Taurus person with > Jup.Sat in Lagna,12th has Sun,Merc.Rahu in 4th. > > The world has shrunk,very soon in next generation travel outside > this planet will have probably 12th house connections. > > Astrology needs a revisit. > > Regards, > > Satish > > > > The fact of the matter is the World has shrunk into an extended > village. > > > > -- In , "bhaskar_jyotish" > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Shri Arjunji, > > > > Sir,Rahu it seems is one of important factors for sending man to > > foreign soil,if not always but contributory factor. > > > > About telangana and other areas I have heard about the problems > even > > when I was small child. Yes I know at least 1 member from every > > family from Andhra must be earning in foreign and keeping the > > balance, staying here in good condition. And many have earned > quite > > good money overtaking the lordship status of local big men of > their > > own hometowns in Andhra. > > > > Regards, > > Bhaskar. > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear bhaskarji > > > > > > centuries ago, foreign means crossing the sea. shankaracharyas > > were > > > then prohibited to crosss the seas until the shankaracharya, > shri > > > bharati krishna tirdhaji of govardhan matt travelled to US > crossing > > > the seas for the first time. > > > > > > in olden days, crossing the sea was treated in bad light as if > the > > > native could not earn food for himself in the homeland and had > to > > > migrate to another land crossing the seas to eke livelihood. > > > > > > but in the changed world scenario or the new world order, IT > > > revolution has made the entire world a GLOBAL VILLAGE and most > > > indians are more successful abroad than in india. > > > > > > in my homestate andhra pradesh, once upon a time there used to > be > > > starvation deaths every year in the drought prone rayalaseema > and > > > telangana areas as they are not that developed compared to the > > > andhra region which has several rivers and was rich in > > agriculture. > > > however, as on date, it is no exaggeration if i say that ONE > MEMBER > > > of each family from andhra pradesh is in abroad and has made his > or > > > her entire family in india lead a much happier and comfortable > > > life. similar is the story in most parts of the country. > > > > > > with this backdrop, HELP OF RAHU comes handy for a native in > going > > > abroad and earn millions. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , "bhaskar_jyotish" > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I too have this query exactly what is the meaning of foreign > in > > > > astrology ? In India itself North to South if one travels 2500 > > > lkms > > > > it is not foreign but suppose we travel 200 kms from Gujarat > > > border > > > > to Paksitan it would be considered as foreign. So how to gauge > > > when > > > > some one asks whether he will go to foreign trip ? Does it mean > > > > in kilomtres, or new cultures North/south ,or people having > > > different > > > > lifestyles and language not spoken by us ? Or does it mean > > > travelling > > > > over the sea by air,or ship ? Or does it just mean reasonably > > away > > > > from where one is staying ? > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Divya" > > > > <touchbase_divya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear RRji, > > > > > > > > > > I was wondering about - What is foreign? > > > > > > > > > > I feel that when a person goes away from home to a > culturally > > > > > different place, it is foreign. It may even be within the > same > > > > > country. If a north Indian goes to a culturally different > South > > > > India > > > > > for a job, then I think it is a foreign place for him. > > > > > > > > > > Yet for people who were born before partition of India, for > > > example > > > > > in Punjab, and then Punjab was divided with the Partition > and > > > they > > > > > had to move across the border. I dont think it is a foreign > > > country > > > > > for them. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Divya > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting > > only > > > a > > > > > > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote > > something > > > > that > > > > > > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled > > with, > > > > > never > > > > > > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing > > for > > > > > those > > > > > > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the > cart > > > (!) > > > > to > > > > > > ponder upon! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > > > > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a > statement > > > you > > > > > > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for > > > > > propriety > > > > > > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge > you > > to > > > > > > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel > > that > > > I > > > > am > > > > > > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared > > > openly > > > > on > > > > > > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this > > special > > > > plea > > > > > > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called > > home > > > > but > > > > > a > > > > > > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know > not > > > > why ... > > > > > > > > > > > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > > > > > > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in > this > > > ant. > > > > > This > > > > > > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go > any > > > > > farther, > > > > > > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were > > > people > > > > > who > > > > > > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a > century > > > ago > > > > > but > > > > > > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the > > > legal > > > > > > definition of a foreign country is that you have a > different > > > > > passport > > > > > > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to > > > Europe > > > > and > > > > > > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved > to > > > > Karachi > > > > > > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle > > > finally. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his > > > > > birthplace > > > > > > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > > > > > > > > > > > What about his children born in India (before > independence), > > > > > Pakistan > > > > > > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > > > > > > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India > for > > > most > > > > > of > > > > > > their formative lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but > > the > > > > next > > > > > > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born > in > > > India > > > > > and > > > > > > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this > person > > > have > > > > > the > > > > > > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the > case > > > for > > > > > > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in > > America > > > > and > > > > > > England, for instance? > > > > > > > > > > > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of > > individuals > > > > who > > > > > > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and > > > > > countries > > > > > > that have been established as unique entities for some > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > A similar situation could be true for those born in > Hongkong > > a > > > > few > > > > > > decades ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? > Politically, > > > or > > > > > > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > > > > > > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part > of > > > the > > > > > > southern land masses and moved apart from those and > collided > > > with > > > > > > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > > > > > > > > > > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way > beyond > > > that > > > > > > fateful collision of landmasses! > > > > > > > > > > > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative > > > (other > > > > > > that the individuals described in this post, I assure > you!), > > > > > too ... > > > > > > whatever! > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor > anyone > > > > else. > > > > > I > > > > > > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few > > > > seconds > > > > > to > > > > > > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and > touches > > > many > > > > > > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are > > > feeding > > > > > the > > > > > > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! > The > > > best > > > > > > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like > that, > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Divyaji, In larger nations (distance-wise) like US, Canada, traveling from one coast to another is often longer than traveling from one to another country in say Europe, or say from kanyakumari to a place in Srilanka. Would be interesting to see if the long distance (9th) and 12th (land abroad) triggered and 3rd and 12th in the later example (short distances, different countries). 12th is perhaps a stronger indicator of residence abroad and not so much visit or travel. But that is a starting point. RR , "Divya" <touchbase_divya wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear RRji, > > I was wondering about - What is foreign? > > I feel that when a person goes away from home to a culturally > different place, it is foreign. It may even be within the same > country. If a north Indian goes to a culturally different South India > for a job, then I think it is a foreign place for him. > > Yet for people who were born before partition of India, for example > in Punjab, and then Punjab was divided with the Partition and they > had to move across the border. I dont think it is a foreign country > for them. > > Regards, > Divya > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Not trying to fan recent potential flames, I am reposting only a > > sliver of Pratap Kaneria's posting in which he wrote something that > > resonated with something that I have off and on wrestled with, > never > > really pursued seriously but think is an interesting thing for > those > > who are studying astrology and not already pulling the cart (!) to > > ponder upon! > > > > > > , Pratap wrote > > > > > > By foreign travel :I mean travelling to country > > > > where you were not born ...>> > > > > > > Dear Pratap ji, > > > > I do risk my neck by simply bringing to limelight a statement you > > made in another context and simply attribute it to you for > propriety > > and citation-maryada. The intention is not to challenge you to > > justify your statement, out of context or for you to feel that I am > > attacking you or your genuine and sincere thoughts shared openly on > > this forum. Please do trust me on that and I make this special plea > > because the forum I love so much and that I openly called home but > a > > few weeks ago is flaring up again and perturbed, I know not why ... > > > > That sincere caveat/disclaimer expressed, this simple and > > straightforward statement did trigger some thoughts in this ant. > This > > is fine for countries with stable boundaries, but why go any > farther, > > just take our Bharat matrubhumi! Not long ago, there were people > who > > were born in East Bengal, as it was called but half a century ago > but > > became a foreign country for many who were born there (the legal > > definition of a foreign country is that you have a different > passport > > and need travel papers, like a visa). > > > > If someone were to be born in East Bengal, then moved to Europe and > > when he came back found a job in West Bengal, then moved to Karachi > > (now Pakistan) and then to somewhere in India to settle finally. > > > > Is his 3rd or 9th/12th house is activated if he visits his > birthplace > > in Bangladesh, or in Pakistan, his karmabhumi for a while? > > > > What about his children born in India (before independence), > Pakistan > > (just the night before it became Pakistan) and India (post > > independence)? All children lived and grew in Free India for most > of > > their formative lives. > > > > I am sorry for introducing this very confusing family, but the next > > generation is even more complex. One grandchild was born in India > and > > moved out to Americas very early in life. Would this person have > the > > 9th activated when visiting India? Would the same be the case for > > this individual's sibling and cousins who were born in America and > > England, for instance? > > > > I deliberately give the examples which are real of individuals who > > were born in evolving borders separating the countries and > countries > > that have been established as unique entities for some time. > > > > A similar situation could be true for those born in Hongkong a few > > decades ago. > > > > How do we define countries, as unique entities? Politically, or > > geographically or as classics portrayed them? > > How far does that go? We hear that India was once a part of the > > southern land masses and moved apart from those and collided with > > Asia and hence we have the magnificient Himalayan ranges! > > > > Surely jyotish and the gods that gave it birth go way beyond that > > fateful collision of landmasses! > > > > Some may call this post too philosophical, too speculative (other > > that the individuals described in this post, I assure you!), > too ... > > whatever! > > > > I do not expect you to answer all these questions, nor anyone else. > I > > just want to thank those who read this post and took a few seconds > to > > ponder on this matter! The matter is not trivial and touches many > > lives in India and other countries and cultures that are feeding > the > > rest of the world with the best product: their very own! The best > > form of sacrifice, if someone wants to look at it like that, from > the > > country's perspective and not the individual's!! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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