Is the Soul deathless?

[Guest guest]

Lets say Krsna is the supreme,lets say we all got sins to pay for before we reach him.Fine.In a materialistic angle i am considering Krsna as the CEO of this world,if anyone who decides to leave a company if they dislike the CEO

or his rules they can always do that,that is in material world.Same way lets say if so and so doesnt like Krsna at all or doesnt seem to find any enjoyment or happiness in the slavery concept of only he is the enjoyer and we are all just his puppets,is it possible to destroy the soul and stop the reincarnations and the oscillation between suffering(caused by ones own sin lets say) and the bliss thru Krsna bakthi?Is this possible at all? This is a hypothetical question considering the soul exists and Krsna exists,but let me for one moment believe in it,there is nothing to loose,but i am firm that i dont see any bliss in the GOLOKA or being a slave to Krsna for enjoying bliss.I know it makes me a person who doesnt seem to want Krsnas grace at no cost,but anyone can ask questions and lets say there may be a sect of people who might not be wanting this kinda of Bliss.So there must be a way out of him right?Or else it will be more of a dictatorship.

I may be viewed as incompetent to acquire Krsna bakthi or undeserving too,but i dont care for praise or criticism,i just want to know if there is a way

to put an end to this cycle of misery and happines and a way to end the constant begging from higher powers to save people from whatever you call it,Maaya or EGO or loss of memory of relationship with god,whatever it may be.

Note:I am not asking entry for Goloka nor i am asking for the sins of the people to be vanished,all i am asking is,is there a way to pay for the sins

and then decide i got nothing to do with this Creator anymore let me destroy the soul?Is it possible.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Your thinking of Impersonal Liberation.?

[Guest guest]

 

Your thinking of Impersonal Liberation.?

 

 

Something like that?So that i dont need to depend on so and so to keep me away from suffering?Any answers?I am surprised there is no answer so far,i am eagerly awaiting,im sure there was some quote of this in puranas

[Pankaja_Dasa]

lol. yes. I don't know.

 

We just babies yet. (not this body). So if we suffer little (we probably need to), we realize this world is not so nice. Then we progress. I had that feeling before what you had about having Impersonal Liberation, sometimes my mind gets better of me. I thought how blissful to not be around people (just Brahman). No father, mother, etc. That makes me feel good.

 

Al Pachino says in Godfather

'Just when i thought I was out, he pulled me right back in'

 

Krishna does that everytime to me. His got some special powers fsure.

[Guest guest]

 

lol. yes. I don't know.

 

We just babies yet. (not this body). So if we suffer little (we probably need to), we realize this world is not so nice. Then we progress. I had that feeling before what you had about having Impersonal Liberation, sometimes my mind gets better of me. I thought how blissful to not be around people (just Brahman). No father, mother, etc. That makes me feel good.

 

Al Pachino says in Godfather

'Just when i thought I was out, he pulled me right back in'

 

Krishna does that everytime to me. His got some special powers fsure.

 

U got it wrong a bit,i am not just sick of this world,i am also sick of Krsna or any god for that matter,reasons is obvious that he is letting us suffer or bored or whatever,lets not get into that because some people here might be so much in love of Krsna,my question is,is there liberation not just from this world even from Krsna so that i dont have to chant his maha mantra or follow Gita or any rule for that matter,put an end to everything.Do u get it now?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Yes, Impersonal Liberation.

 

 

Here is some steps:

1. Become Mayavadi

2. Give up Krishna.

 

Result:

Impersonal Liberation

 

Conclution:

Loose Krishna.

 

==

 

You have 2 posts to think about it.

[Gaea]

 

U got it wrong a bit,i am not just sick of this world,i am also sick of Krsna or any god for that matter,reasons is obvious that he is letting us suffer or bored or whatever,lets not get into that because some people here might be so much in love of Krsna,my question is,is there liberation not just from this world even from Krsna so that i dont have to chant his maha mantra or follow Gita or any rule for that matter,put an end to everything.Do u get it now?

 

So, you want to be your own boss devoid of the Fatherhood of God? Welcome to your first step in spirituality, my friend

 

I'm no expert in these matters but i have noticed one thing - amongst me friends, myself etc - that is that everyone gets fed up. Of this world, our relationships, our jobs, our studies.... everyone wants to be liberated... everyone wants peace... everyone wants to be their own boss. But also everyone, eventually - i am sure if not in this life then the next (or next) - finds his or her path. Sometime the path is a little dusty, a little rocky, but you make your way. You sound like you've already reached the fed-up point and you're looking for a way out - even a way out of God Himself. Well, you can of course give up on Him. You can aim to achieve the the lower heavens where there's plenty of sense enjoyment, but in the end it's all temporary.

 

I hope you find your way

 

...And to answer your question more directly.... in my (sometimes silly) opinion, No - there is no escape. God is always with you, there can be no place without Him (even hell, if there is such a thing). You can't destroy your soul, it is eternal and you have an ETERNAL relationship with God.

[Guest guest]

 

Yes, Impersonal Liberation.

 

 

Here is some steps:

1. Become Mayavadi

2. Give up Krishna.

 

Result:

Impersonal Liberation

 

Conclution:

Loose Krishna.

 

==

 

You have 2 posts to think about it.

 

Oh so this is imperonal liberation,i didnt know that before,thanks..so what is Mayavadi?yes i dont need Krsna,to me the highest bliss and happiness would be being independent and still be miseryless,not depend on any higher power or lower power or god or demigod or demon or anyone,call me a egoist,aethist or whatever this is what i want and would love to know more...

no matter what angle u view it like do seva for the lord or do bakthi and love thy lord or whatever my goal(as of now,assuming there exists Krsna and all that)is this Impersonal Liberation..thanks

[Pankaja_Dasa]

As the story goes, long ago was Vedic Culture, Krishna left Planet. etc.

 

Then Buddisum arose, but Shankracharya came (to give knowledge of Advaita) Which is 'everything is spiritual'. And He said Vishnu exsists but not in this World. But His followers rejected His terms a little and said Vishnu body is material. And nothing exsists except Brahman (this is where Mayavadis go). Also called Mahakalapurna-loka (sanskrit for Mayavadi-loka). So the choice begins again later. Whether to serve God or Maya? Good luck.

 

NB. Teaching Buddists about Vedic Scriptures, Shankracharya gave them something they could understand. But He always said Krishna was not of this World. His followers later rejected this.

[Guest guest]

 

As the story goes, long ago was Vedic Culture, Krishna left Planet. etc.

 

Then Buddisum arose, but Shankracharya came (to give knowledge of Advaita) Which is 'everything is spiritual'. And He said Vishnu exsists but not in this World. But His followers rejected His terms a little and said Vishnu body is material. And nothing exsists except Brahman (this is where Mayavadis go). Also called Mahakalapurna-loka (sanskrit for Mayavadi-loka). So the choice begins again later. Whether to serve God or Maya? Good luck.

 

NB. Teaching Buddists about Vedic Scriptures, Shankracharya gave them something they could understand. But He always said Krishna was not of this World. His followers later rejected this.

 

 

Come on man,ur again losing track of this topic,i never said i want to serve maaya.I asked is there a way to put an end to the soul so that it doesnt come back to experience pain and pleasure?See this is y i believe aethist make more sense,the vagaries and lack of a solid reply causes not just frustration also makes it ridicule it.on one hand u all talk as if its all so clear,then u say u urself make the choice,then comes this sankara told this,budha told that,visnu is here,visnu is not here,lets hail this guy,lets hail that guy,lets chant this,lets chant that,but when confronted with queries like this,the answer is oh im too small for this,ur too small for this,u deide urself,blah blah blah...(im not trying to make fun,its just the way it is,it sounds as if its all right here and then its not there)

 

if i can make the choice y would i even bother to ask questions,the question was whether it is possible to void the soul,as one user here says no u cant let it go,then that sure makes god a dictator,he does not give it the chance to let go..maybe being the creator he shouldnt be viewed as the boss but like a father,a father is never going to allow the son to leave him forever if he has the power..

i for one never ever believe that its just man who is the reason for suffering,thats a very antaganistic way to view things.its like oh my lord we surrender to u,ur the supreme we r the sinners,its christianity but in hinduism maaya is blamed and again the lord is let go free,now this is new,visnu is not even here,well that makes it convenient to blame man kind for the misery and credit to someone who isnt even here

[Pankaja_Dasa]

You want to be void do you?

 

Sit in a confined place, with no light. Blind-folded. Ears covered. No sound, no movement. See how you feel. You''d think going to the toilet is an experience.

 

Hehe

[Guest guest]

 

You want to be void do you?

 

Sit in a confined place, with no light. Blind-folded. Ears covered. No sound, no movement. See how you feel. You''d think going to the toilet is an experience.

 

Hehe

 

 

So what does this mean?U dont know the answer or its not possible to be void?all along i thought this was a serious discussion and now i know ur turning to humor rather than get deep into the problem

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

So what does this mean?U dont know the answer or its not possible to be void?all along i thought this was a serious discussion and now i know ur turning to humor rather than get deep into the problem

 

Just read Prabhupada books

[Guest guest]

 

So what does this mean?U dont know the answer or its not possible to be void?all along i thought this was a serious discussion and now i know ur turning to humor rather than get deep into the problem

 

It's supposed to mean that if you feel like you want to be void, try simulating that in real life and see how it feels. It's not a pleasant experience. But then again, how can you even be conscious and "experience" anything if you are void?

 

I'm not sure which way is right, eternal servitude to the Lord, or merging in Him altogether. However, I'm sure the Lord accomodates both ways. If you want to keep your ego identity he will permit you to do so and you can serve Him as long as you wish. Or he can destroy your ego identity, and thus you have become void, all your perceptions of identity of yourself or anything else are vanquished and you as the individual no longer exist.

[sanatan]

 

So what does this mean?U dont know the answer or its not possible to be void?all along i thought this was a serious discussion and now i know ur turning to humor rather than get deep into the problem

 

I think what you're trying to get as is the possibility of literal annihilation of the soul and consciousness; according to Bhagavad-gita this isn't possible.

 

Some Christians believe that the souls of sinners /unbelievers will be annihilated after the final judgment; I've read the Biblical passage that supports this idea at some point in the past but can't remember it.

 

The closest thing I can think of is the concept of a Void state but the effort required to attain to this is a life's endeavor, similar to what it takes to become self-realized in the Vedic sense.

 

I've given the idea of complete soul annihilation some personal thought also and have come to the conclusion that it isn't possible.

[Guest guest]

You are asking if it is possible to put an end to the soul to end suffering without depending on Krsna. No, soul is eternal and soul cannot be made to die. But one thing I did not understand. Even if it was possible to kill soul, how would it end suffering? End of your soul means end of your existence for ever. Of course, once you cease to exist, then you won't face any suffering. But, then you won't feel any peace either because you won't be there to feel anything.

 

Is this what you mean by end of suffering? Or, do you mean something else by putting an end to soul?

[Guest guest]

 

You are asking if it is possible to put an end to the soul to end suffering without depending on Krsna. No, soul is eternal and soul cannot be made to die. But one thing I did not understand. Even if it was possible to kill soul, how would it end suffering? End of your soul means end of your existence for ever. Of course, once you cease to exist, then you won't face any suffering. But, then you won't feel any peace either because you won't be there to feel anything.

 

Is this what you mean by end of suffering? Or, do you mean something else by putting an end to soul?

 

 

Well that is y i equated the whole situation to a Worker and CEO of a company,lets say ur dissatisfied with ur CEO,what would u do,u would resign ur job,same way if i am not willing to bow to Krsna i wont be able to attain bliss right?But given a choice i would still not bow to Krsna or any god for that matter and chant their names a million times to attain mukthi,because i dont believe in being a slave to anything,ofcourse as long as we live here we gotta do something to survive.My question is if we finish all our karmic duties then there will be a situation where either we start all over in this material world or go to Krsna right,at that moment i would like to totally destroy the soul so that i dont need to come here and suffer and enjoy as per Karma nor i want to serve Krsna as i feel disgraced by being a slave to anyone,even if it is god,so if u say as per Geetha there is no way other than to serve him then doesnt that sound like dictatorship?Yes destroying the soul is putting a end to misery isnt it?Because as per whatever mythology we will be back here if we do some mistake even after reaching the lord,so y even have that chance?Is this clear?

People here ridicule the material world saying we r slave to the society and attached blah blah,but what pleasure it is to be a slave to Krsna and fall by his feet compared to being slave here?To me no slavery and full free will with no pain would be bliss,not constant chanting.Call me egoist or anything but i dont like serving anyone,be it god or anyone,i would if i want to out of love but not by force,as of now it does seem like forced because it sounds like either u serve him or u suffer so there is no love here.

[Avinash]

 

Well that is y i equated the whole situation to a Worker and CEO of a company,lets say ur dissatisfied with ur CEO,what would u do,u would resign ur job,same way if i am not willing to bow to Krsna i wont be able to attain bliss right?

 

If you resign your job, then also you exist. But if you destroy your soul then you do not exist at all - neither in this material world, nor with Krsna, nor anywhere else.

 

If there is no existence of you, then what is meaning of no suffering for you?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Lets say Krsna is the supreme,lets say we all got sins to pay for before we reach him.Fine.In a materialistic angle i am considering Krsna as the CEO of this world,if anyone who decides to leave a company if they dislike the CEO

or his rules they can always do that,that is in material world.Same way lets say if so and so doesnt like Krsna at all or doesnt seem to find any enjoyment or happiness in the slavery concept of only he is the enjoyer and we are all just his puppets,is it possible to destroy the soul and stop the reincarnations and the oscillation between suffering(caused by ones own sin lets say) and the bliss thru Krsna bakthi?Is this possible at all? This is a hypothetical question considering the soul exists and Krsna exists,but let me for one moment believe in it,there is nothing to loose,but i am firm that i dont see any bliss in the GOLOKA or being a slave to Krsna for enjoying bliss.I know it makes me a person who doesnt seem to want Krsnas grace at no cost,but anyone can ask questions and lets say there may be a sect of people who might not be wanting this kinda of Bliss.So there must be a way out of him right?Or else it will be more of a dictatorship.

I may be viewed as incompetent to acquire Krsna bakthi or undeserving too,but i dont care for praise or criticism,i just want to know if there is a way

to put an end to this cycle of misery and happines and a way to end the constant begging from higher powers to save people from whatever you call it,Maaya or EGO or loss of memory of relationship with god,whatever it may be.

Note:I am not asking entry for Goloka nor i am asking for the sins of the people to be vanished,all i am asking is,is there a way to pay for the sins

and then decide i got nothing to do with this Creator anymore let me destroy the soul?Is it possible.

You wish to not exist anymore - yes God can do this - He can merge you into an unmanifest state from which you'll have no awareness of anything - including yourself and God.

 

So here is what you do - try to live this life in such a way that you can earn His favor - then - when you die and are in a position to be liberated - you may ask Him for this. Of course there is no possibility of this without first reaching a liberated state - after all - this place is a prison house of souls and however much we wish to make it into something else - it is a prison house. God will never spring us until we're ready. How to know when that is? When we no longer live of the world but rather within it only....