further than the Sun

[Guest guest]

The Moon is further than the Sun FROM MERU.

[Guest guest]

ok, so this solves the mystery? it is not farther from the earth, but MERU?

[Guest guest]

 

ok, so this solves the mystery? it is not farther from the earth, but MERU?

 

Yes the sun is closer to the Meru (or to "ground") than the moon. The moon is farther. All planets of the universe form huge continent - Jambudvipa (In multivariate space).

 

Meru it also is that weight around of which all rotates in the universe (In three-dimensional measurement) You see that all planets and stars rotate. In the center of their rotation there should be much surpassing weight than all stars and planets. It is the Meru.

 

The modern science is too primitive what to see all as is...

[Guest guest]

 

 

The modern science is too primitive what to see all as is...

 

so true.

Science as we know it is the brainchild of a bunch of spiritually retarded misfits who have every bad habit under the Sun.

Putting faith in what the retards so is a very fallible position.

 

When we reject knoweldge given by siddha-bhaktas and put our faith in a bunch of money-grubbin' "scientist" retards, we are putting ourselves into the most pathetic position.

[Guest guest]

 

so true.

Science as we know it is the brainchild of a bunch of spiritually retarded misfits who have every bad habit under the Sun.

Putting faith in what the retards so is a very fallible position.

 

When we reject knoweldge given by siddha-bhaktas and put our faith in a bunch of money-grubbin' "scientist" retards, we are putting ourselves into the most pathetic position.

 

 

Are you sure you're not retarded?

 

If we can't observe what the siddha bhaktas observe, how can we believe them? Why should we believe them?

 

There are good and bad scientists out there. The good ones are those who are open to ideas about God and the nature of reality. The bad ones are those who show their arrogance and think a universe with a God doesn't make any sense, therefore God can't exist.

 

By the way, how do you know who's a true siddha-bhakta and who's not? Who's a fraud and who's genuine?

[Dwayne]

A saintly person never lies

[Guest guest]

 

 

By the way, how do you know who's a true siddha-bhakta and who's not? Who's a fraud and who's genuine?

 

trust me on this one.

I wouldn't lie about this one.

 

Srila Prabhupada is a siddha-bhakta from Goloka who comes down to this world every time Mahaprabhu comes and Krishna comes.

He is an eternal preacher and giver of mercy from above.

 

He knows better than a bunch of spiritual retards we call scientists.

 

Srila Prabhupada would never say anything unless he knew it for a fact to be true.

 

He was not a clown or a buffoon like us.

[Guest guest]

 

Are you sure you're not retarded?

 

 

I am retarded and you are retarded, but Srila Prabhupada was a siddha-bhakta.

He was not retarded.

I put my faith in him, not the retarded scientists who are only after a paycheck.

[Guest guest]

 

When we reject knoweldge given by siddha-bhaktas

 

Yes, all spiritual matter it si not blind sraddha, yes.. God and pure devotee give all knowlege.

 

Peoples in material world in propaganda, some wrong education and so on... Some bad masin it is big argument for us

[theist]

Who should I trust on the biological effects of Vit.C on the human body, the great sages of yesteryear or even today or Linus Pauling?

 

I believe in the principle of giving every person their due credit where credit is deserved.That includes the atheists.

[Kulapavana]

SB 5.16. TEXT 9

 

evam daksinenelâvrtam nisadho hemakûto himâlaya iti prâg-âyatâ

yathâ nîlâdayo 'yuta-yojanotsedhâ hari-varsa-kimpurusa-bhâratânâm

yathâ-sankhyam.

 

evam--thus; daksinena--by degrees to the southern side; ilâvrtam--of Ilâvrta-varsa; nisadhah hema-kûtah himâlayah--three mountains named Nisadha, Hemakûta and Himâlaya; iti--thus; prâk-âyatâh--extended to the east; yathâ--just as; nîla-âdayah--the mountains headed by Nîla; ayuta-yojana-utsedhâh--ten thousand yojanas high; hari-varsa--the division named Hari-varsa; kimpurusa--the division named Kimpurusa; bhâratânâm--the division named Bhârata-varsa; yathâ-sankhyam--according to number.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Similarly, south of Ilavrta-varsa and extending from east to west are three great mountains named (from north to south) Nisadha, Hemakuta and Himalaya. Each of them is 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles] high. They mark the boundaries of the three varsas named Hari-varsa, Kimpurusa-varsa and Bharata-varsa [india].

 

 

 

 

Are Himalayas we see here on Earth indeed 80,000 miles high?

 

 

you can post your misconceptions about how the Moon is further away from Earth than the Sun because you think none of us can verify it directly. try to the same with this verse without looking ridiculous.

 

you misunderstand what the Bhagavatam says about the Universe. Our time and space continuum is but a small part of the Universe. the space is NOT linear (you can travell all you want in space and NEVER leave the Universe, despite the dimensions given in Bhagavatam.

 

the Himalayas we see are just a small part of these mountains as they stretch through SEVERAL worlds.

 

do yourself and others a favor people: dont try to understand and talk about Bhagavatam cosmology untill you understand AKHASA or vedic concept of space.

[Guest guest]

 

Yes, all spiritual matter it si not blind sraddha, yes.. God and pure devotee give all knowlege.

 

Peoples in material world in propaganda, some wrong education and so on... Some bad masin it is big argument for us

 

I don't believe in blind sraddha. To me, that's not enlightenment, that's just plain ignorance. And that is what I'm protesting. The person who labeled scientists as "retards" automatically assumes that they know nothing and Prabhupada knows everything. Maybe that is the case (who knows?).

 

the problem is when you're not even enlightened, who are you to pass judgement like that? Who are you to truly believe in the words of Prabhupada yet dismiss the words of scientists? Guess what, many scientists believed in God, many go into science BECAUSE of their love for God and they seek to understand God and His many ways. If that qualifies them as retards, maybe you're worse than a retard; after all, what have YOU done?

 

My proposal is if you want to make these judgement calls on who's a retard and who isn't, better to do so from a vantage point where you can separate the wheat from the chaff. Pursue enlightenment rather than living off the words of another, as that is supposed to be the whole point to this hell we call a life isn't it?

[Guest guest]

 

the problem is when you're not even enlightened, who are you to pass judgement like that? Who are you to truly believe in the words of Prabhupada yet dismiss the words of scientists? Guess what, many scientists believed in God, many go into science BECAUSE of their love for God and they seek to understand God and His many ways. If that qualifies them as retards, maybe you're worse than a retard; after all, what have YOU done?...

 

I'm has many arguments. In many points. It is knowlege. Pratyaksavagamam dharmyam - spiritual knowlege stay on direct vision or unerstanding. Now modern science destroy ALL, it is FACT, then they fools. It is science destroying - ignorance.

 

"You see

 

that all planets and stars rotate.

 

In the center of their rotation there should be much surpassing weight than all stars and planets."

 

It is fact?

 

 

the space is NOT linear

 

Linear understanding have arisen from primitiveness of people and absence of reason.

[Guest guest]

 

Similarly, south of Ilavrta-varsa and extending from east to west are three great mountains named (from north to south) Nisadha, Hemakuta and Himalaya. Each of them is 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles] high. They mark the boundaries of the three varsas named Hari-varsa, Kimpurusa-varsa and Bharata-varsa [india].

 

 

Are Himalayas we see here on Earth indeed 80,000 miles high?

 

 

 

Funny how the "Moon is further than the Sun" crowd went silent on this one

[Avinash]

During solar eclipse we see the moon between the earth and the sun. This means the moon is closer to the earth than the sun is, irrespective of whether space is linear or not.

 

If space is not linear, then the astronomical distances that we know of are wrong. But if you take three points A, B and C in a straight line such that B is somewhere between A and C, then whether space is linear or not, we can safely say that AB < AC. During solar eclipse, make the following substituition:-

A = Earth

B = Moon

C = Earth

[Kulapavana]

 

If space is not linear, then the astronomical distances that we know of are wrong.

 

again. you do not understand the Vedic concept of space.

 

Bhagavatam is NOT speaking about the distance between the object we call Moon and the observer here on Earth. Some people ASSUME that SB descriptions relate to such a linear measure, but many Vedic scholars believe otherwise.

 

the space objects we observe in our time and space continuum can be described in linear terms, but the Universe of Srimad Bhagavatam is much bigger than that and consists of several separate worlds.

 

When the Rig Veda is speaking about the fearsome abyss that underlies both heavens and the earth, it is speaking about the reality of akhasa, or space, where all material realities (worlds - as in bhur, bhuvah, svah) take place and are suspended in. A yogi can enter that space (subspace?) and emerge anywhere, in any world he likes in an instant. that is what I mean when I say that in Vedic understanding space is non-linear.

[theist]

A question. If the Bhagavatam is not correct about cosmology will that destroy your(general) faith in all of that great work? Will you lose knowledge and faith in the transcendental reality by admitting there may be a flaw somewhere? Is that not faith miss placed?

 

I don't read the Bhagavatam looking for detailed knowledge of the universal structure. The nature of the self, the Superself and our relationship still stands no matter where the moon is.

[Guest guest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulapavana

Similarly, south of Ilavrta-varsa and extending from east to west are three great mountains named (from north to south) Nisadha, Hemakuta and Himalaya. Each of them is 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles] high. They mark the boundaries of the three varsas named Hari-varsa, Kimpurusa-varsa and Bharata-varsa [india].

 

Are Himalayas we see here on Earth indeed 80,000 miles high?

----------------------------

 

Funny how the "Moon is further than the Sun" crowd went silent on this one

 

------------------------------

 

still no comments? you disappoint me, folks...

[Guest guest]

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulapavana

Similarly, south of Ilavrta-varsa and extending from east to west are three great mountains named (from north to south) Nisadha, Hemakuta and Himalaya. Each of them is 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles] high. They mark the boundaries of the three varsas named Hari-varsa, Kimpurusa-varsa and Bharata-varsa [india].

 

Are Himalayas we see here on Earth indeed 80,000 miles high?

----------------------------

 

Funny how the "Moon is further than the Sun" crowd went silent on this one

 

------------------------------

 

still no comments? you disappoint me, folks...

 

Mortals like us cannot see the subtle more refined form of the Himalayas.

We can only see the the part made of Earth, water and fire. There is a more sublime aspect of the Himalayas that can be found on the suble planes.

 

Our dog eyes cannot see the more sublime regions of the Himalayas that extend 80,000 above the Earth.

 

That realm is where great sages, yogis and mystics live in meditation upon the absolute.

 

We take this Earthly plane to be concrete reality, while we are blind to the fact that there are beings and realms made of higher and more subtle energies that we cannot see or hear with our dull doglike senses.

 

We can't see radio waves, yet they exist.

We can't see air yet it is there.

We cannot see the mind, intelligence or ego either, because these energies are too subtle for our dog eyes to see.

 

there are realms made of subtle energy that we cannot perceive.

But, as long as we can't see it with our dull, contaminated eyeballs we think it does not exist.

 

We are the fools who only accept what our dull senses can verify.

[Kulapavana]

 

Mortals like us cannot see the subtle more refined form of the Himalayas.

We can only see the the part made of Earth, water and fire. There is a more sublime aspect of the Himalayas that can be found on the suble planes..

 

yes. and the same is true about the moon-realm Bhagavatam is talking about. just like we only see a small part of Himalayas, we only see a small part of the moon-realm.

 

the higher Himalayas separate our world from the world of the Kimpurushas (Class of semi-divine beings with half-horse and half humanoid bodies)

[Avinash]

You are saying that Bhagavatam talks about higher dimensions. That could well be a possibility. But I have some questions on this way of interpreting Bhagavatam.

Suppose science did not talk of higher dimensions, would you still say that Bhagavatam talks of higher dimesnions? In other words, are there things written in scriptures, which prove that the scriptures talk of higher dimensions?

Light from the sun takes more time to reach the earth than that from the moon. If we go by the assumption that the sun and the moon that we see are only parts of actual sun and moon because the remaining parts are in higher dimensions, then this proves that the light does not follow these higher dimesnsions. If light went through these higher dimensions, then the light from the sun would take less time to reach the earth than the light from the moon. But we know this is not so (unless we do get some light from the sun but we do not recognize it).

You have written that some siddhas, nagas etc. use these higher dimesnsions. So, are you saying that these beings can enter the dimensions, which even a small particle like photon cannot? I am not saying that this is impossible, but want to know your views.

If these beings can use dimensions that light cannot, then they should be able to go from one part of the world to another faster than light can. Is this true?

[Kulapavana]

 

Suppose science did not talk of higher dimensions, would you still say that Bhagavatam talks of higher dimesnions? In other words, are there things written in scriptures, which prove that the scriptures talk of higher dimensions?

 

of course! there are hundreds of such references. look a the travels of Arjuna to the North in search of wealth for the Rajasuja yajna. He travelled through several higher dimensions (he travelled through the higher Himalayas) untill he was stopped at the entrance to the next world, where even he could not enter in his present body. Or Bhima entering the world of Nagas through the river portal atfer being poisoned and thrown into the river by servants of Duryodhana. or the story of Arjuna and Ulupi. so many other examples even in the Bhagavatam.

 

 

 

If we go by the assumption that the sun and the moon that we see are only parts of actual sun and moon because the remaining parts are in higher dimensions, then this proves that the light does not follow these higher dimesnsions.

 

that is a wrong assumption. the light of our Sun is nothing compared with the stunning brilliance of the higher realms. just like we only see a small part of Himalayas, we only see a small part of the real Sun.

[Avinash]

I wrote:-

 

If we go by the assumption that the sun and the moon that we see are only parts of actual sun and moon because the remaining parts are in higher dimensions, then this proves that the light does not follow these higher dimesnsions.

 

You replied:-

 

that is a wrong assumption. the light of our Sun is nothing compared with the stunning brilliance of the higher realms. just like we only see a small part of Himalayas, we only see a small part of the real Sun.

 

I really do not understand where you and I have differed. I am not making the assumption that the light of our Sun is comparable with that of the higher realms. I am only assuming that our Sun is a part of the actual Sun. I think this is the same as what you are saying.

 

Now, let me explain why I talked about light. Bhagavatam says that the moon is nearer than the sun. But our observations say otherwise. According to you, this is because the sun and the moon that we see are only small parts of the real sun and the real moon. In other words, the real sun is nearer than the real moon if we consider higher dimensions. Since the real sun (i.e. complete sun) is nearer than the real moon, the light from the real sun should reach us earlier than that from the real moon if light could follow higher dimensions. But we do not observe any such thing. This means that light does not follow higher dimensions. By light here I mean the light that we see.

[Kulapavana]

 

Now, let me explain why I talked about light. Bhagavatam says that the moon is nearer than the sun. But our observations say otherwise. According to you, this is because the sun and the moon that we see are only small parts of the real sun and the real moon. In other words, the real sun is nearer than the real moon if we consider higher dimensions. Since the real sun (i.e. complete sun) is nearer than the real moon, the light from the real sun should reach us earlier than that from the real moon if light could follow higher dimensions. But we do not observe any such thing. This means that light does not follow higher dimensions. By light here I mean the light that we see.

 

ok, I understand you now.

 

first of all Bhagavatam does not say that the moon is further than the sun from us. Bhagavatam says that the lunar plane of existence is higher than the solar plane in relation to the Garbhodaka Ocean and - by inference - to the earthly plane of existence that our world is part of.

 

you are again using linearity to understand that concept.

 

in our world the moon reflects the light of sun probably because the actual moon is so far away it's light does not get to us.

 

the light we see is merely a wave (vibration) of a particular material kind. ultimately, for us light is an experience of a particular vibration. the light of higher realms can only be experienced on higher levels of the consciousness. look at the Gayatri (savitri) mantra for clues. the ultimate light is Brahmajyoti, it is all around us, yet we do not see it with our senses.

 

that is a pretty deep stuff. it takes a while to absorb it. take your time, prabhu...

[Avinash]

To my question if there are references in scriptures of higher dimensions, you replied:-

 

 

of course! there are hundreds of such references. look a the travels of Arjuna to the North in search of wealth for the Rajasuja yajna. He travelled through several higher dimensions (he travelled through the higher Himalayas) untill he was stopped at the entrance to the next world, where even he could not enter in his present body. Or Bhima entering the world of Nagas through the river portal atfer being poisoned and thrown into the river by servants of Duryodhana. or the story of Arjuna and Ulupi. so many other examples even in the Bhagavatam.

 

I am not aware of the story of Arjuna being stopped at the entrance to the next world. So, let us take the other two examples you have given.

Bhima enters the world of the nagas. Why isn't it possible that, according to Mahabharata, the nagas lived inside ocean even in our three space dimensions. You can ask how any kingdom can be there inside water. It is possible that this story written in Mahabharata is simply wrong. The same can be said about the story of Arjuna and Ulupi.

 

I know some may take offence because I am suggesting that some things written in Mahabharata may be simply wrong. But, I am adopting the process of elimination. I am eliminating all possibilities other than the possibility that Mahabharata talks of higher dimensions in these stories.