further than the Sun

[Kulapavana]

 

Mundane scientists do not believe in the metaphysical, so they'd laugh at all this talk of planes of existence and beings live on higher dimensions.

 

That is not entirely true. Science is quite open to the existence of paralel realities. See here for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_(science)

[Guest guest]

 

actually, its you who are stuck on mundane science. Mundane science does not recognize the astral plane. That is precisely what we are recognizing when we state the cosmology of the Bhagavatam can only be understood within a metaphysical framework.

 

Mundane scientists do not believe in the metaphysical, so they'd laugh at all this talk of planes of existence and beings live on higher dimensions. You seem to agree with the mundane scientists, that any life on the moon must exist on THIS dimension, and scoff at the metaphysical interpetations of the Bhagavatam.

 

Don't have to tell me about the astral plane.

I travel on the astral plane every night.

I have all sorts of psychic dreams and astral travelling.

 

I would venture a guess that I have more psychic dreams and astral travel than anyone on this forum.

 

Even the shastra says that one can get mystic powers from herbs and I have been taking powerful herbs for a long time and it has given my psychic powers.

 

my dreams are vivid, in color and in great detail.

[gHari]

Speaking the essential truth to a dying man, what would a man of advanced intelligence, knowledge and wisdom tell him? Would he describe the world as it appears to fourth dimensional creatures like the common man who can only perceive three material dimensions through time? Is that important?

 

I liked what Srila Sridhara said about influence, as though it is the causal plane of influence that is being described. Astrologers certainly accept that the planets and moon affect our lives; indeed perhaps the skies are all part of the very complex mechanism that grinds the machine of the three modes. Getting above their influence would be the secret to transcendental life beyond the conditioning orchestrated and enforced by the planets and stars.

 

I laugh aloud at myself for such speculations, but it could be true. Couldn't it? Actually it sounds a lot like the teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky in their "Fourth Way" which was reputed to be based loosely on India's ancient wisdom.

[Guest guest]

 

Speaking the essential truth to a dying man, what would a man of advanced intelligence, knowledge and wisdom tell him? Would he describe the world as it appears to fourth dimensional creatures like the common man who can only perceive three material dimensions through time? Is that important?

 

I liked what Srila Sridhara said about influence, as though it is the causal plane of influence that is being described. Astrologers certainly accept that the planets and moon affect our lives; indeed perhaps the skies are all part of the very complex mechanism that grinds the machine of the three modes. Getting above their influence would be the secret to transcendental life beyond the conditioning orchestrated and enforced by the planets and stars.

 

I laugh aloud at myself for such speculations, but it could be true. Couldn't it? Actually it sounds a lot like the teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky in their "Fourth Way" which was reputed to be based loosely on India's ancient wisdom.

 

 

Well, if you can believe that God is a midget who took three steps and crossed the whole universe and poked a hole in the covering of the universe to let water from the causal ocean that that then flows down to Earth through the river ganges, then you should be able to believe about anything.

 

If you can believe that God turned himself into a boar hog and picked the Earth up with his tusks out of an ocean in the bottom of the universe when it fell out of orbit, then you should be able to believe about anything.

 

In fact, if you can believe anything at all that is told in Srimad Bhagavatam, then what is so hard to understand that from the transcendental perspective the Moon is futher than the Sun?

 

Madhvacarya says that Rahu causes eclipses.

I guess he was wrong about that.

 

Vishvanatha Chakravarti confirms the Bhagavat cosmology as well.

 

I guess the neophyte western devotees have heard from the scientists and now they no better than the Vaishnava acharyas?

[gHari]

 

 

Madhvacarya says that Rahu causes eclipses.

I guess he was wrong about that.

 

Why would you guess that, Guest?

 

Do you disagree with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's surya-siddhanta astronomical treatise that suggests that the moon sphere is 258,000 miles from the earth globe?

 

What are you saying? I can't separate the sarcastic from the cynical, the rude from the real in your last post which apparently responded to my post, although I can't see how it relates at all.

 

But I truly loved the clever injection of Krsna-katha in your response. I don't mind being treated like an idiot if you write more Krsna-katha like that. I have to learn to separate the milk from the mud some day anyway - so why not today?

[Guest guest]

 

Madhvacarya says that Rahu causes eclipses.

I guess he was wrong about that.

 

 

Who cares if he was wrong about that? I dont. I do not read Madhvacarya's writings to learn about Rahu. I read his works to understand the spiritual philosophy - and he was certainly great at explaining it.

 

You are stuck in believing that in order for an acharya to be great he MUST BE RIGHT ALL THE TIME, and on EVERYTHING.

 

Show me a verse in the scriptures that says that.

 

You can keep coming up with contorted explanations but it is actually quite simple.

[Guest guest]

 

Who cares if he was wrong about that? I dont. I do not read Madhvacarya's writings to learn about Rahu. I read his works to understand the spiritual philosophy - and he was certainly great at explaining it.

 

You are stuck in believing that in order for an acharya to be great he MUST BE RIGHT ALL THE TIME, and on EVERYTHING.

 

Show me a verse in the scriptures that says that.

 

You can keep coming up with contorted explanations but it is actually quite simple.

 

he wasn't wrong about that.

Rahu does cause eclipses and it is part of our "spiritual philosophy" because he felt it important enought to make commentary about it in Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

how can anyone say that part of the 5th Canto are any less spiritual than the 10th canto or any other canto?

 

Sukadeva instructed Pariksit to contemplate the virat-rupa to help him attain transcendence.

Part of attaining transcedence is medititating on the cosmology of the 5th canto in the way that Sukadeva describes it.

 

I don't beleive that anyone who writes of the 5th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam as just so much wrong information can EVER attain transcendence.

 

The key is to try and see the universe as a form of the Lord as described in Srimad Bhagavatam.

Concocting our own scientific conception of the universe will NOT help us AT ALL in attaining transcendence.

 

the 5th canto cosmology is a way of seeing the universe spiritually as an expansion of the energy of the Lord.

 

seeing it through the eyes of the scientists will not help us.

[Guest guest]

What if it was proven to you that the moon is closer? would that destroy your faith in Krsna?

[Guest guest]

 

I don't beleive that anyone who writes of the 5th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam as just so much wrong information can EVER attain transcendence.

 

It is not that the 5th Canto is wrong. You are wrong (IMO) the way you interpret it's meaning.

[Guest guest]

 

You are stuck in believing that in order for an acharya to be great he MUST BE RIGHT ALL THE TIME, and on EVERYTHING.

 

Show me a verse in the scriptures that says that.

 

Here are a few:

 

 

bhrama pramada vipralipsa karanapatava

arsa-vijna-vakye nahi dosa ei saba

 

"Mistakes, illusions, cheating, and defective perception do not occur in the sayings of the authoritative sages." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 2.86)

 

 

"Unless one is empowered by the higher authorities or advanced devotees, one cannot write transcendental literature, for all such literature must be above suspicion or, in other words, it must have none of the defects of the conditioned souls, namely mistakes, illusions, cheating and imperfect sense perceptions. The words of Krsna and the disciplic succession that carries the order of Krsna are actually authoritative."

 

S.B. 4.20.24

 

 

At the present moment it has become fashionable to disobey the unimpeachable directions given by the ācāryas and liberated souls of the past. Presently people are so fallen that they cannot distinguish between a liberated soul and a conditioned soul. A conditioned soul is hampered by four defects: he is sure to commit mistakes, he is sure to become illusioned, he has a tendency to cheat others, and his senses are imperfect. Consequently we have to take direction from liberated persons. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement directly receives instructions from the Supreme Personality of Godhead via persons who are strictly following His instructions. ---purport to Srimad Bhagavatam, 4.18.5

[Kulapavana]

So in your opinion, who was right about the moon distance? Srila Bhaktisiddhanta in his Surya Siddhanta, or Srila Prabhupada in his purports to Bhagavatam? Based on the record, their prononcements on this matter can not be reconciled, as they both refer to linear distances between earth and moon. Who in your opinion does not measure up to the infallibility standard set by you?

 

And where are the 80,000 mile high Himalayas?

 

How do you reconcile Prabhupada openly admitting in Bhagavatam to making an educated guess as to the nature of flames on the moon and the need to always be right on everything? and what to do when acharya changes his opinion on something, contradicting his earlier pronouncements? was he right then, and is he right again later, after reversing himself? how about when he himself admitts to his lack of knowledge in a particular area?

[Guest guest]

 

So in your opinion, who was right about the moon distance?

 

Both.

 

 

And where are the 80,000 mile high Himalayas?

 

Where Sastra says they are. Just because most of the Himalayas are invisible to the imperfect human eye doesn't negate their existence, anymore than Paramatma is negated just because the naked eye cannot perceive Him.

 

 

was he right then, and is he right again later, after reversing himself? how about when he himself admitts to his lack of knowledge in a particular area?

 

Yes. And yes.

 

"One is forbidden to accept the guru, spiritual master, as an ordinary human being...A spiritually advanced person who acts with authority as the spiritual master, speaks as the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates within. Thus, it is not he who is personally speaking. When a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been directly spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the parampara system." C.C. Antya 5

 

"Whatever a pure devotee does is done by the dictation of the Supreme Lord. Thus, it is confirmed by the author of Caitanya Caritamrta that whatever he wrote was written under the direction of the Sri Madana-mohana Deity." C.C. Adi 8.78

 

If Krsna is perfect, and if the pure devotee Guru is the external manifestation of Supersoul, then everything the pure devotee says is perfect and complete, including his "opinions", which may indeed vary, according the dictates of Krsna within his heart. The material mind and senses may not be able to comprehend these matters, but through bhakti, it is possible.

 

"Although a devotee may apparently express himself to be ignorant, he is full of knowledge in every intricate matter." S.B. 3.7.8

[Guest guest]

What I am saying is that there is something about this Moon thing that we haven't quite grasped yet.

There is a great mystery here.

Why?

Because the Bhagavat describes the descent of the Ganges as coming to the Moon and THEN it falls DOWN to Lord Brahma's abode.

 

The Moon being referred to in Srimad Bhagavatm cannot be the same Moon that the NASA astronuts landed on.

 

Is this verse just more nonsense misconception of Sukadeva Goswami and the great sages of the Vedic age?

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.17.4

 

tato 'neka-sahasra-koṭi-vimānānīka-sańkula-deva-yānenāvatar-antīndu maṇḍalam āvārya brahma-sadane nipatati

 

SYNONYMS

 

tataḥ — after purifying the seven planets of the seven great sages; aneka — many; sahasra — thousands; koṭi — of millions; vimāna-anīka — with contingents of airplanes; sańkula — congested; deva-yānena — by the spaceways of the demigods; avatarantī — descending; indu-maṇḍalam — the moon planet; āvārya — inundated; brahma-sadane — to the abode of Lord Brahmā atop Sumeru-parvata; nipatati — falls down.

 

TRANSLATION

 

After purifying the seven planets near Dhruvaloka [the polestar], the Ganges water is carried through the spaceways of the demigods in billions of celestial airplanes. Then it inundates the moon [Candraloka] and finally reaches Lord Brahmā's abode atop Mount Meru.

 

PURPORT

 

We should always remember that the Ganges River comes from the Causal Ocean, beyond the covering of the universe. After the water of the Causal Ocean leaks through the hole created by Lord Vāmanadeva, it flows down to Dhruvaloka (the polestar) and then to the seven planets beneath Dhruvaloka. Then it is carried to the moon by innumerable celestial airplanes, and then it falls to the top of Mount Meru, which is known as Sumeru-parvata. In this way, the water of the Ganges finally reaches the lower planets and the peaks of the Himalayas, and from there it flows through Hardwar and throughout the plains of India, purifying the entire land. How the Ganges water reaches the various planets from the top of the universe is explained herein. Celestial airplanes carry the water from the planets of the sages to other planets. So-called advanced scientists of the modern age are trying to go to the higher planets, but at the same time they are experiencing a power shortage on earth. If they were actually capable scientists, they could personally go by airplane to other planets, but this they are unable to do. Having now given up their moon excursions, they are attempting to go to other planets, but without success.

 

<<>>

There is something missing in our understanding of the Moon that is being referred to here and the "MOON" that the astronuts visited.

[Guest guest]

 

Quote:

So in your opinion, who was right about the moon distance?

-----------

 

Both.

 

 

Oh, suuuuure....

 

You may have such a vision in your heart as a disciple, but you can't go preaching with such an approach to outsiders. You can not claim Krsna consciousness is a scientific way to approach God and then gloss over obvious logical contradictions like that. You can not ask people to accept your religion as non dogmatic and then dump a bunch of dogmas on them first time there is a difficulty with explanations.

 

You can not throw out pratyaksa and anumana from our tradition when they produce results that run contrary to your sentiments, however noble they may be.

 

If and when you do reject direct perception and logic as legitimate tools you are embarking on creating a dangerous religious cult, which happened in our movement quite a few times in the past. Requiring people to simply have blind faith is a domain of religious charlatans and crooks.

[Guest guest]

 

Requiring people to simply have blind faith is a domain of religious charlatans and crooks.

 

You have made a lot of false assumptions here. Who said anything about blind faith, or sentiment? Who said anything about preaching complex "apparent contradictions" to outsiders? And why label the above sastric quotes as "dogma?"

 

My position is that all can be harmonized through shraddha. Not that we reject those portions of Sastra that are inconceivable, or reject the pure devotee who is simply writing what is being dictated to him from Krsna. It isn't necessary to experience and grasp every little detail with our mundane mind and senses. Some things are simply unexplainable and beyond our comprehension. You obviously do not understand the concept of "adhoksaja."

[Guest guest]

 

My position is that all can be harmonized through shraddha. Not that we reject those portions of Sastra that are inconceivable, or reject the pure devotee who is simply writing what is being dictated to him from Krsna.

 

That "dictation from Krsna" bit is quite a stretch or extrapolation as well. There is a substantial difference between "receiving divine inspiration in writing" and "dictation of every word by Krsna" as some devotees claim. But many devotees specialize in stretching concepts way past their breaking point.

[Guest guest]

 

 

You can not throw out pratyaksa and anumana from our tradition when they produce results that run contrary to your sentiments,.

 

The Bhagavat cosmology has nothing to do with MY sentiments.

I didn't manufacture Bhagavat cosmology out of sentiment.

 

Bhagavat Cosmology has been transmitted through the disciplic succession for millions of years.

 

Now, all of a sudden so called followers of the parampara feel they are at liberty to toss out Bhagavat cosmology because it does not jive with what modern astronomers are saying.

 

Do you think that the sceintists of kali-yuga are more enlightened than the sages of Satya-yuga whom accepted the same Bhagavat cosmology that Sukadeva transmitted to Maharaja Pariksit?

 

the problem here is that people like you want to pidgeonhole the universe into the telescopes of kali-yuga sudras and reject the knowledge of the self-realized siddhas who could travel all over the universe at will.

 

you just don't understand that the way transcendentalists view the universe is much deeper than the external vision of kali-yuga sudras like US!

 

Our eyes are like the eyes of a peacock feather - they cannot really see.

Seeing is done through the eyes of shastra, not through peacock feather eyes like OURS!

[Guest guest]

The water of the Ganga flows through the hole in the universe created by the big toe of Vamandeva.

It then cascades down onto the Polestar (Dhruvaloka) and then to the planets of the seven great sages.

From there is it carried on celestial airplanes to the Moon and from there is flows on down to the home planet of Lord Brahma.

 

This knowledge has been faithfully accepted by all great devotees and great sages for millions of years.

 

now, the kalu-yuga sudras are saying this is not at all true or even possible.

 

the decry this ancient Vedic knowledge is the deed of the spiritually dead.

[Guest guest]

 

That "dictation from Krsna" bit is quite a stretch or extrapolation as well.

 

I'm not making it up, simply backing what I've said with Sastra and the words of a pure devotee. If you are a non-devotee, sure, I can see how you might consider it a "stretch." Or for someone who doesn't accept Srila Prabhupada as being free from the 4 material defects. That's certainly understandable. By all means, believe as you like. Resort to mental speculation if you are unable to harmonize apparent contradictions. I prefer the route of Guru, Sastra, Sadhu.

 

 

But many devotees specialize in stretching concepts way past their breaking point.

 

Some devotees (or at least I think they are devotees) seem to specialize in trying to grasp the Infinite with their finite mind and senses, and being unable to do so, try to bring the Infinite down to their level.

 

...when a pure Vaisnava speaks, he speaks perfectly. How is this? His speech is managed by Krsna Himself from within the heart...Non-devotees want to ask the Supreme Lord for sense gratification; therefore, non-devotees come under the influence of maya, the illusory energy. A devotee, however, is directed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and comes under the influence of yogamaya. Consequently, there is a gulf of difference between statements made by a devotee and those made big a nondevotee." C.C. Madhya 8.200

[Guest guest]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.29.69

 

sattvaika-niṣṭhe manasi

 

bhagavat-pārśva-vartini

 

tamaś candramasīvedam

 

uparajyāvabhāsate

 

SYNONYMS

 

sattva-eka-niṣṭhe — in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness; manasi — in a mind; bhagavat — with the Supreme Personality of Godhead; pārśva-vartini — being constantly associated; tamaḥ — the dark planet; candramasi — in the moon; iva — like; idam — this cosmic manifestation; uparajya — being connected; avabhāsate — becomes manifest.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Kṛṣṇa consciousness means constantly associating with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in such a mental state that the devotee can observe the cosmic manifestation exactly as the Supreme Personality of Godhead does. Such observation is not always possible, but it becomes manifest exactly like the dark planet known as Rāhu, which is observed in the presence of the full moon.

 

PURPORT

 

It has been explained in the previous verse that all desires on the mental platform become visible one after another. Sometimes, however, by the supreme will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the whole stockpile can be visible all at one time. In Brahma-saḿhitā (5.54) it is said, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām. When a person is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his stockpile of material desires is minimized. Indeed, the desires no longer fructify in the form of gross bodies. Instead, the stockpile of desires becomes visible on the mental platform by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

In this connection, the darkness occurring before the full moon, the lunar eclipse, can be explained as being another planet, known as Rāhu. According to Vedic astronomy, the Rāhu planet, which is not visible, is accepted. Sometimes the Rāhu planet is visible in the presence of full moonlight. It then appears that this Rāhu planet exists somewhere near the orbit of the moon. The failure of modern moon excursionists may be due to the Rāhu planet. In other words, those who are supposed to be going to the moon may actually be going to this invisible planet Rāhu. Actually, they are not going to the moon but to the planet Rāhu, and after reaching this planet, they come back. Apart from this discussion, the point is that a living entity has immense and unlimited desires for material enjoyment, and he has to transmigrate from one gross body to another until these desires are exhausted.

 

No living entity is free from the cycle of birth and death unless he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore in this verse it is clearly stated (sattvaika-niṣṭhe) that when one is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in one stroke he is freed of past and future mental desires. Then, by the grace of the Supreme Lord, everything becomes simultaneously manifest within the mind. In this regard, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura cites the example of mother Yaśodā's seeing the whole cosmic manifestation within the mouth of Lord Kṛṣṇa. By the grace of Lord Kṛṣṇa, mother Yaśodā saw all the universes and planets within the mouth of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person can see all his dormant desires at one time and finish all his future transmigrations. This facility is especially given to the devotee to make his path clear for returning home, back to Godhead.

 

Why we see things not experienced in this life is explained herein. That which we see is the future expression of a gross body or is already stocked in our mental stockpile. Because a Kṛṣṇa conscious person does not have to accept a future gross body, his recorded desires are fulfilled in a dream. We therefore sometimes find things in a dream never experienced in our present life.

[Avinash]

I asked:-

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Avinash

If plane means level of being as in a level of consciousness, then we can say that higher consciousness is required to reach lunar plane of existence than to reach solar plane of existence. Is this correct?

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

You replied:-

 

 

certainly. there are many historical accounts of people entering the higher Himalayas after long fasting, purification and meditation, for example. these accounts often come from the Buddhist tradition.

 

In a previous post you wrote: - "the lunar plane of existence is higher than the solar plane in relation to the Garbhodaka Ocean and - by inference - to the earthly plane of existence that our world is part of."

 

If by plane you mean "plane" of consciousness, then what is meant by saying that the lunar plane of existence is higher than the solar plane in relation to the Garbhodaka ocean? Does it mean that if somebody is present in Garbhodaka ocean, then he needs higher consciousness to reach lunar plane than to reach solar plane?

 

As an aside, the 5th canto of Bhagavatam mentions many oceans. One of these is an ocean of milk. Is this the same as "Shveta dvipa" where Kshirodakhayi Visnu resides?

[Guest guest]

 

 

And where are the 80,000 mile high Himalayas?

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada was from India, he knew that Mt. Everest was 29,035 ft, yet he still didn't hesitate to translate the Bhagavatam literally and the 80,000 mile figure for the Himalayas.

 

Was Srila Prabhupada an idiot, or did he understand something about these things that we can't with our dull brains?

[Guest guest]

One thing to note in the above verse from Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.69, is this:

 

 

the darkness occurring before the full moon, the lunar eclipse, can be explained as being another planet, known as Rāhu.

Notice how Srila Prabhupada says "the darkness occuring before the full moon" is to be known as a planet.

 

In the Vedic view of the ancient sages, everything in the universe had a personal side.

Even darkness or a shadow was also seen as a person or a character.

 

So, the shadow that falls upon the Moon during an eclipse is known to the Vedic sages as Rahu, the dark planet.

 

In Bhagavat philosophy Rahu represents shadow existence or a state of shadow consciousness that occurs when the living entity comes in contact with matter and causes the soul to manifest this shadow-like consciousness of material identification.

 

When we are covered by the false identification of our material existence, we all are in a Rahu-like state of consciousness as our pure cosnciousness is blocked by the false ego and we manifest this shadow of our soul in the material atmosphere.

 

Just as the shadow blocks the illumination of the Moon during an eclipse, the false ego blocks the illumination of the soul.

[Kulapavana]

 

Srila Prabhupada was from India, he knew that Mt. Everest was 29,035 ft, yet he still didn't hesitate to translate the Bhagavatam literally and the 80,000 mile figure for the Himalayas.

 

Was Srila Prabhupada an idiot, or did he understand something about these things that we can't with our dull brains?

 

No, you are an idiot if you think that the earthly Himalayas are 80,000 miles high. My point precisely. The shastra is right, but in a way I explained earlier. The Universe is described in Bhagavatam as seen through the eyes of a perfect yogi, who can actually perceive all planes of existence.

[Kulapavana]

 

If by plane you mean "plane" of consciousness, then what is meant by saying that the lunar plane of existence is higher than the solar plane in relation to the Garbhodaka ocean? Does it mean that if somebody is present in Garbhodaka ocean, then he needs higher consciousness to reach lunar plane than to reach solar plane?

 

As an aside, the 5th canto of Bhagavatam mentions many oceans. One of these is an ocean of milk. Is this the same as "Shveta dvipa" where Kshirodakhayi Visnu resides?

 

Nobody lives in the Garbhodaka Ocean except for Garbhodakasayi Vishnu who lies there on Ananta Sesha and from his navel the entire cosmic manifestation (all the worlds) emerges. But yes, those who live in the lower worlds generally have lower consciousnes than people on the earthly plane altough there are some notable exceptions to this rule.

 

Higher worlds are invariably associated with higher consciousness. Still, these are real worlds, not just levels of consciousness.

 

Sveta Dvipa is a far away island on the ocean of milk, unreachable even to greatest demigods. Demigods adress Lord Vishnu in prayers from the shore of the ocean of milk as both Svetadvipa and Garbhodaka Ocean where Lord Vishnu resides are beyond their physical reach.