Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Satsvarupa dasa Goswami, Giriraj Swami, and others July 8, 2006 Carpinteria, CA Giriraj Swami: For most of you, no introduction is required. But for those of you who are new, we are followers of the Bhagavad-gita, which was spoken by Krsna five thousand years ago. The Bhagavad-gita explains the complete science of yoga, and there Lord Krsna says that of all yogis, he who serves Him with love and devotion is the highest of all: yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantar-atmana sraddhavan bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo matah "Of all yogis, the one with great faith who always abides in Me, thinks of Me within himself, and renders transcendental loving service to Me--he is the most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all. That is My opinion." (Bg 6.47) He explains that bhakti-yoga is the highest process of yoga and that it is the only process by which one can fully know Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and attain Him: bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah tato mam tattvato jnatva visate tad-anantaram "One can understand Me as I am, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only by devotional service [bhakti]. And when one is in full consciousness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God." (Bg 18.55) Five hundred years ago, Krsna appeared again, in the guise of a devotee, to teach people how to follow the instructions of the Bhagavad-gita. At the end of the Gita, Lord Krsna had directed, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja--to give up all varieties of religiousness and surrender unto Krsna. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru--to always engage the mind in thinking of Krsna, become Krsna's devotee, worship Krsna, and to bow down to Him. But how, practically, does one worship Krsna? How does one always think of Him? That was shown by Krsna Himself five hundred years ago as Sri Krsna Caitanya. Sri Krsna Caitanya is Krsna playing the part of a devotee. Just like a teacher will write the alphabet on the blackboard for the students--the teacher doesn't have to practice writing "A,B,C," but he or she does it just to show the students how to form the letters properly. Similarly, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is Krsna Himself, had no need to worship Krsna, but He did it to show us how. He taught us that among all the methods of worship and spiritual realization, the chanting of the holy names of the Lord is the best: harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "One should chant the holy names, chant the holy names, chant the holy names of Hari [Krsna]. There is no other way, no other way, no other way for success in the present age." Further, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu predicted, prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama--that in every town and village of every country of the world, His name, Krsna's name, would be preached. How such an event would come to pass remained a great mystery until 1965, when our spiritual master, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, left India on a cargo carrier, a steamship, from Calcutta, and came to New York City and sat down under a tree in Tompkins Square Park and began to chant Hare Krsna and present the philosophy of the Bhagavad-gita as it is. Srila Prabhupada had so much potency that by his mercy he was able to attract many intelligent young men and women to join him in his mission of Krsna consciousness. One of the first young men to come forward to help Srila Prabhupada was Satsvarupa dasa Goswami, known then as Steve. He was a little older than most of the others; he was twenty-six. We hardly knew anyone older than twenty-three. And on top of that, he had a job. Hardly any of us had jobs, but he was a welfare worker and he dressed in a suit and tie. So he was special from the beginning. He would come every day and do service. He would bring mangos for Srila Prabhupada, and as a most important service he would type Srila Prabhupada's manuscripts. From the very beginning Srila Prabhupada considered his most important service, or one of his most important services, to his spiritual master, to be the translating and explaining of Vedic scripture, especially Srimad-Bhagavatam, in English. So, Satsvarupa Maharaja would very dutifully type the manuscripts and edit them, and that was the beginning of the publication of Srila Prabhupada's books, which have revolutionized the lives of millions of people throughout the world. His Grace Bhrgupati Prabhu here is also a disciple of Srila Prabhupada's--a very steady and staunch book distributor--and he is holding the first volume of Srila Prabhupada's translation of Srimad-Bhagavatam, which he will hold up for you all to see. Ultimately, Srila Prabhupada went on to translate what came to be more than eighty volumes, including Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Sri Isopanisad, and others. And Satsvarupa Maharaja typed and edited the first manuscripts. Eventually Srila Prabhupada wanted to start more centers. First there was only Srila Prabhupada in New York, but later the devotees came to understand that Prabhupada had in mind a great world mission and that he wanted devotees to go to different cities and begin centers of Krsna consciousness. First, devotees went to San Francisco, then to Montreal, and then to Boston--Satsvarupa Maharaja began the center there. So, now we will request His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Goswami Maharaja to speak to us. Hare Krsna. Satsvarupa dasa Goswami: nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhu-tale srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine Giriraj Maharaja and I talked about the program and agreed that it would be somewhat improvised and that we would talk back and forth. I wanted to first mention the process of remembering Srila Prabhupada, which is the name of today's program. So, there is a process to remembering Srila Prabhupada. There are three most important processes in bhakti-yoga: sravanam, kirtanam, and smaranam. Sravanam is hearing about Krsna. Then kirtanam, glorifying Krsna. And then smaranam, remembering. Today we are talking about remembering, in this case, remembering Prabhupada. When you remember a great soul such as Prabhupada, if you do it very intently, what is the result? The result is that he is actually present, as good as if he were present physically--as would also be true if you were reading about him or chanting his name. When you talk about him and remember him, just as we are doing today, it is as good as if he were present. And what do we do when we get the benefit of Prabhupada's presence? We surrender to him. I remember how in the presence of Prabhupada I could make full dandavats and so much feel my desire to surrender to him, feel my repentance for not surrendering, and feeling my ability to surrender and carry out whatever he would ask me to do, feel empowered to do that, "What do you want me to do, Prabhupada?" So if we can now remember Srila Prabhupada, we can be blessed by being able to please him, and so we should do this on occasions like this and in our own daily lives with our friends. Our friends as much as possible should be friends who know about Prabhupada. We may not be direct disciples of Prabhupada, but there is so much literature now--a virtual library of memoirs about Prabhupada--and we should acquaint ourselves with this and remember Prabhupada. On the invitation to today's event was a picture taken on Juhu Beach in Bombay, where Giriraj Maharaja surrendered his heart and soul to such hard work for Prabhupada in fighting the "battle of Kuruksetra," as it was sometimes called, to get the land and to build the temple there. Giriraj Maharaja is yet to write the full epic, although it has been told to some degree in Prabhupada-lilamrta how he served his spiritual master to carry out that order. The picture is of Prabhupada; his friend and sometimes sparing partner, Dr. Patel; myself and Giriraj Maharaja; a devotee named Mohanananda, and another named Prithuputra. So I wanted to talk a little bit about Bombay and Dr. Patel and walking on the beach. Giriraj Maharaja will have so many memories, but I was there too, as shown in that picture. Prabhupada's most wonderful servant in terms of telling us memories of Prabhupada, I think, is Srutakirti Prabhu. He has published a book, What is the Difficulty? He tells his stories in such a wonderful way because he tells them with love and without motivation or politics or anything. At one point he got married, and for some time gave up his service, although later he took it back again, but a certain point he got married and gave up his service. So Prabhupada was thinking of another servant, and he thought of me because I could type and do a few other things. Little did he know how little I could do, but he asked, "Have Satsvarupa come and be my servant." So he asked his big manager in Los Angeles, Karandhara, to call me. I was on a travelling party, at the Alamo in Texas. So I flew there right away, and within a short period of time Prabhupada went from Los Angeles to Hawaii to Tokyo to Vrndavana to Bombay, and so I was on those morning walks then. I want to mention a little bit what it was like with Dr. Patel. Dr. Patel was always arguing against Prabhupada's position of pure surrender to Krsna. Still, Prabhupada said he was a dear friend. But we devotees, disciples of Prabhupada, we strongly disliked his presence on the walks because he would always bring up Mayavadi arguments and because he would laugh like a buccaneer pirate. You can hear him on the tapes: "Hahaha hahaha . . ." He would laugh against Prabhupada and say, "You are just teasing me." And Prabhupada would say so strongly, "You are a Mayavadi. You are just a Mayavadi impersonalist." And Dr. Patel would say, "You may call me whatever you like, but I am right. You are not right in what you are saying about Krsna. I am a pure devotee of Krsna." And Prabhupada would say, "You are a Mayavadi!" Sometimes Dr. Patel would take it seriously, and we would realize that his feelings were hurt, and he would get angry. That was a strange thing. And we devotees would unquestionably just burn and burn at his presence in front of our guru maharaja, bating our guru maharaja and not treating him respectfully. The walks were such heavenly things. Sometimes devotional service was difficult. Giriraj Maharaja was putting up with the lawyers and had to go through so many difficult days. I was having difficulty with my own mind, serving in Bombay, thinking that I wanted to go out and preach and not just be a servant. But going out on the walks was just heaven. We went out early in the morning, before sunrise, and saw the sky gradually lighten over the dark Arabian Sea, and Prabhupada walking so gracefully. At that time of day his mind was clear of talks about lawyers and he was walking with his canvas shoes and talking the philosophy. And so it was such heaven to be with him. But then, if we saw Dr. Patel coming, oh, it was just ruination, like salt coming into the sweet rice. Dr. Patel had a friend who carried a stick with him. What was his name? Giriraj Swami: Mr. Shah. Satsvarupa dasa Goswami: Mr. Shah. And he was just the splitting image of Dr. Patel. He would have the same Mayavadi opinions but was a little timid. He would keep a little distance from Prabhupada, next to them, next to Dr. Patel. But he would also have those opinions. And just to cut it short, one thing that Prabhupada used to do was criticize India's so-called saints. He would say that they were bogus, and he would do it in such a challenging way. He knew from Calcutta that one of them was a scandalous person. And Dr. Patel and Mr. Shah were really offended, deeply offended. They said, "We worship all of India's saints. You cannot say this to us." They stopped in their tracks and said, "If you do this, then we will not walk with you anymore!" So Prabhupada said, "I cannot help it. I am a policeman, and I have to catch the cora [thief]. I must say this. When you bring up these names, I have to speak the truth." So they did it. They stopped--to our great enjoyment, to the enjoyment of the disciples of Prabhupada. For a period of time they would come out to the beach the same time Prabhupada came, and just put up their noses and not walk with him, just cross tracks. So then Prabhupada devised a further strategy not to talk with them. He said, "We will just read the Krsna book, so if they come our way, we will not talk to them. We will be reading the Krsna book." So for a period of time . . .. I think often Giriraj Maharaja would do it, read out loud from the Krsna book while we walked. And sometimes our paths would cross. They would say, "Good morning. Good morning." They would pass us and we would just be reading the Krsna book. But then after a while they made up and Prabhupada explained, "He is my brother." Now I will ask Giriraj to add to this Dr. Patel stuff. Giriraj Swami: I will begin with the history of Dr. Patel, because it will come to play in a later conversation with Srila Prabhupada that was very interesting. Srila Prabhupada entered the agreement to purchase the Juhu land in February of 1972, and then he left on a world tour. At the time, we were living in tents on the land, but he instructed that we should build a hut made out of chatai with a roof of tarpaulin, which, in a crude way, we did. Dr. Patel found out about us, and he came to the land to meet us. He was a proud man. As Satsvarupa Maharaja said, he claimed to be a pure devotee, not in the sense that we understand pure devotee, but in the sense that he was born in a Vaisnava family and followed the Vaisnava principles of purity. Further, he was proud because he had gone to London to study medicine--quite a big thing back then--but even there he never ate meat or smoked cigarettes or drank alcohol. So he considered himself to be a Vaisnava, and when Prabhupada would call him a Mayavadi, he would beg to differ: "No, Sir. I am a Vaisnava." Before he began his morning walks with Prabhupada, Dr. Patel had come to the Juhu land and seen us foreigners. In the very beginning we were not living even in the hut. It was so hot, we just slept outdoors. There were some apartment buildings on the land with flat roofs, so we would just go up and sleep on the roofs. And many of the devotees got sick. There were a lot of mosquitoes, and some devotees got malaria. We were living in quite difficult circumstances. Somehow Dr. Patel took a liking to the foreign devotees, and he got inspired to take up a collection. There is a big cloth market in Bombay called MJ Market, Mulji Jetha Market, and he decided to go stall to stall and beg for cotton and cloth and get the cotton stuffed into the cloth to make pillows and mattresses, and to get blankets, sheets, and mosquito nets as well. So he asked how many devotees we were--at the time we were about twelve. And because he was a proud man, it was a big thing for him to beg; he had never begged in his life. And he came and presented one set to each devotee--a simple mattress, a pillow, a sheet, a blanket, and a mosquito net. When Srila Prabhupada returned to Juhu, Dr. Patel met him, and soon he became a regular companion on the morning walks. Maybe because of my relationship with Dr. Patel and the service he did for us, I liked the discussions that Srila Prabhupada had with him--I felt that Srila Prabhupada was engaging with Dr. Patel in order to teach us. Still, Dr. Patel could be annoying at times. So it was hard to figure him out. He knew Sanskrit--that was another factor that contributed to his pride--and he knew a lot of verses. He was relatively pure in his habits, educated abroad, a doctor. And when Prabhupada would call him a Mayavadi, he would say, "No, no. I am a Vaisnava." Another thing that Prabhupada would often do, and it was a technique that he taught us, is when people would bring up some popular figure, he wouldn't comment on the person; rather, he would ask, "What is his philosophy?" Then he would compare the person's philosophy to the Bhagavad-gita. And if the philosophy didn't agree with the Bhagavad-gita's, he would reject it--because our standard is the Bhagavad-gita. Quite often Prabhupada would come to the point of calling these other people mudhas. There is a verse in the Bhagavad-gita: na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah mayayapahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." (Bg 7.15) So Prabhupada would say, "Anyone who doesn't surrender to Krsna is a miscreant [duskrtina]. Mudha means "fool,rascal," or in stronger language, "ass." Naradhama means "the lowest among mankind." Mayayapahrta-jnana means someone who may be very knowledgeable or intelligent but whose knowledge has been taken away by maya, stolen away by maya. And asuram bhavam means people who have the nature of demons. So Prabhupada would say, "Anyone who is not surrendered to Krsna falls in one of these four categories: fool, rascal, demon," and so on. And Dr. Patel would get very upset. But Prabhupada would say, "I am not saying; Krsna is saying. I am not saying; I am only repeating what Krsna is saying." But they had an affectionate relationship, and after Srila Prabhupada left this world, Dr. Patel was inspired to write his memories of Srila Prabhupada, and they were actually quite touching. His article was published in Back to Godhead (Satsvarupa Maharaja was the editor for many years) as "My Life's Most Precious Moments" with the subtitle "A Bombay doctor wins the title 'big fool' and loves it." So he relished, at least in retrospect, being called a mudha by Prabhupada. In a way Dr. Patel was a Mayavadi, but he thought he was a Vaisnava, and he accepted Krsna and the Bhagavad-gita, but it wasn't quite clear how he accepted Krsna--as the person Krsna or as something impersonal speaking through Krsna. His position was always a little ambiguous. But he would always insist that he was a Vaisnava, a pure Vaisnava. One day, as Satsvarupa Maharaja mentioned, Srila Prabhupada picked on one of the revered so-called spiritual leaders of India and Dr. Patel got really upset. He was livid; he was shaking, he was so angry. And he was shouting at Prabhupada, "You cannot criticize like this!" And Prabhupada was shouting, "I am not saying! Krsna is saying--na mam duskrtino mudhah . . ." They were shouting back and forth. This was one time when Dr. Patel's friends--he had his group of cronies, and he was their leader, perhaps because he was a little intellectual and outspoken--they were trying to drag him away from Prabhupada, saying, "Swamiji has a heart condition. Don't upset him so." And he was shouting at Prabhupada, and Prabhupada was shouting at him. That was really traumatic. Finally they pulled Dr. Patel away. Afterwards, back at the temple, Tamal Krishna Goswami went into Srila Prabhupada's room and asked, "Srila Prabhupada, why do you do it? Why do you put up with him? He is so offensive." And Prabhupada said, "It is our duty to engage everyone." Then Tamal Krishna said, "But what is his actual position? Is he a Vaisnava? Is he a Mayavadi? What is he?" In response, Prabhupada told a story about a man who could speak many languages expertly--in whatever language people would address him, he would immediately respond perfectly in the same language. So no one could figure out where he was actually from. Everyone was talking, "Where is he from? In whatever language we speak to him, he answers in the same language perfectly, immediately." Finally one man said, "I will find out." One day, when the speaker of many languages was preoccupied, that man came up behind him and gave him a big whack. Then the linguist started to curse in his native tongue. [laughter] Then his real identity was disclosed. So Srila Prabhupada said, "Dr. Patel is like that. He can speak very expertly. He can sound like a devotee, sound like a Vaisnava, sound like a Mayavadi, sound like anything. But when I really gave a slap where it hurt--this so-called saintly person that he revered--then his real language came out." So, that was quite interesting. And as Satsvarupa Maharaja mentioned, then Prabhupada said, "Okay, now no more discussion. We will only read Krsna book." And for a while they ignored each other. Finally, one day Dr. Patel, as he described it, felt pulled back to Srila Prabhupada, as if by force. Dr. Patel was walking on one side, and Prabhupada was walking on the other, but something made Dr. Patel change his course, and he walked toward Srila Prabhupada and bowed at his feet--he came back. He said, "Swamiji, we have been taught to respect all the saints of India." And Prabhupada replied, "Our business is to point out who is not a saint." Still, in their own way they were friends, and they resumed their walks and talks. The last anecdote now pertains to the gift that Dr. Patel gave us, the twelve sets of bedding. On one morning walk, he began to complain to Srila Prabhupada that the devotees hadn't taken care of his gift. You know devotees--at first there were twelve sets; then, after a while, there was one less blanket, two fewer pillows. Then after a while we were down to about seven sets, then three sets, and then in the end there was nothing left of the gift. So Dr. Patel complained to Srila Prabhupada that he had gone and begged and organized the gifts and now there was nothing left. There was not a trace--not a single shred of a mosquito net. Prabhupada said, "These boys and girls from Europe and America who have come to serve me, they don't care for their bodies. They know, 'I am not this body.' So why should they care? As long as they can serve their spiritual master and chant Hare Krsna, they are happy. They don't mind if they have to sleep on the floor or get bitten by mosquitoes. They are completely detached from the body. All they care about is their devotional service." And then he said, "They are already liberated. That moksa that you so much want, that moksa they already have. That is why there is nothing left of your gift--they don't care for the body or the comforts of the body. They are liberated, which you so much want to become." That was a profound answer by Srila Prabhupada, expressed with a wry twist. And it is true that devotees are automatically liberated. Pure devotional service begins on the liberated platform: brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param "One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me." (Bg 18.54) Even a neophyte devotee is beyond a Mayavadi who just desires to become liberated. So in a subtle, tactful way this time, Prabhupada put Dr. Patel in his place and exalted the devotees in comparison. Baradraj dasa: I was just remembering one of those morning walks with Dr. Patel. I happened, fortunately, to be there also, to enjoy that rasa. It was quite unique and wonderful, actually, even though it was annoying in its outer appearance. But I remember those walks when Prabhupada talked about one so-called saint. Who was the guru who passed away but his disciples did not realize he had died? They thought he was in samadhi and so they kept him for a long time in the room. Prabhupada said, "So they didn't know the difference between a living body and a dead body. Such foolish disciples . . ." [laughter] "They kept him there for some time until it began to smell." [laughter] He quoted a parable about an axe speaking to a tree. The axe says, "I am powerful. I can cut you down." And the tree says, "No, you cannot." The axe says, "Yes, I am sharp and strong and powerful. I can cut you down." And the tree says to the axe, "No, you cannot. Only with my help can you do anything. If you take one of my branches for a handle, then you will have something and can do something." That was in connection with Prabhupada's being so critical of the so-called saints. He mentioned several personalities and remarked, "They are all Bengalis. They have created trouble. Because they are Bengalis, they have this power. And they have created so much trouble." Then he said, "But there is another Bengali from the same tree. And just as the axe is able to cut down the tree of inequity"--Prabhupada was portraying that the Bengali so-called saints and philosophers had actually created so much trouble--"I am that Bengali, that limb from that tree, that will cut them down." I believe it was on the same walk. It was early morning, and Dr. Patel had not come that morning. This was my first walk on Juhu Beach with Prabhupada, and I did not know the story of Dr. Patel. I had never met him. Prabhupada stopped many times. He stopped and looked back and said, "Dr. Patel, he is not coming this morning?" And he walked a little further and stopped again. Again he looked back and said, "Where is Dr. Patel? He is not coming this morning?" And then Dr. Patel showed up. I don't know which of those times it was--if it was a reunion, one of those times--but Prabhupada seemed very happy that finally Dr. Patel had come. For him, it was a great sport. He really enjoyed it, and you could tell that there was also affection. On that particular morning walk, I remember Prabhupada had chastised him--I cannot recall exactly what it was that Dr. Patel had said, but Prabhupada was suddenly incensed. So Prabhupada told him, "You are speaking foolishly. You are a fool." He said it to him directly. Then Dr. Patel stopped and said, "Swamiji, I am always respectful to you. I call you guru, swami. Why do you call me these names? You say, 'fool, mudha.'" And Prabhupada looked at him and said, "If you call me guru, I have to call you fool. [laughter] It is my duty." Satsvarupa dasa Goswami: Giriraj Maharaja was inviting me to talk about Boston because he and I have a connection in Boston. Baradraj was there too. I was sent to Boston as the temple president and struggled to try to get new devotees. It was very slow. For a year we had only about three devotees, mostly sent from New York, and we gained hardly any from the town itself. But then Prabhupada visited in 1968 and stayed for a month. Wonderful and different things took place in that month; he had a whole month full of engagements in colleges. Then he went away, but no devotees really joined. He came again in 1969, and we had programs at different colleges. We had one at Brandeis University, and it was at there that a young student named Glenn heard the kirtana and .. . . Did you hear Prabhupada's lecture? You missed the lecture. So you heard the last kirtana, which I led. But then you fortunately mixed with the devotees and then you got to meet Srila Prabhupada. This is your story. He relieved you of your illusion that you thought you were God. So Giriraj Maharaja is planning to write a book about this, his Boston days. I remember him as a very saintly devotee, our first gold-star devotee to join. He was so valuable. His father came with great concern and had to talk to me. He was afraid that his son would be captured by the draft board. He talked to me about that, and I said I didn't think that if he joined the Hare Krsna movement he would go into the draft. I didn't really know for certain, but I assured him that he wouldn't. Glenn proved to be very valuable because he would meet Prabhupada regularly and take devotees around. He had a red car, and he used to take us. We were going out on sankirtana to parks. We used to load up in Glenn's car. We didn't have our own then, so after an engagement we would have to ask, "Does anybody here have a car to take our spiritual master home?"--meaning Prabhupada--and we tried to get a ride. Glenn had a car, so he could take Prabhupada back or take us out on sankirtana. We used to load up the car till the shock absorbers went all the way down. And our little storefront--it wasn't a good place. It was in a very rough neighborhood where teenagers would harass us. The lease was running out, and the owner was going to raise the rent. We didn't know what to do except just go along with renting it again for another year. But Glenn kept saying, "No. We have to get better than this." He was determined. I was so wrapped up in going to work that I couldn't do much about it. But Glenn and some other devotees looked until they found a big house, which we actually decided to buy. Glenn's father looked over the mortgage agreement and said the terms were good. Prabhupada from a distance saw all of this and said, "You have a very good man in Glenn. He is a very good devotee. Take care of him." So he was an outstanding devotee even before he was initiated. Prabhupada came to see him and show his appreciation for him. I liked him very much, and I liked seeing Prabhupada's affectionate relationship with him. I guess you don't want to tell the whole story about Prabhupada in the storefront, how Prabhupada read your mind. Giriraj Swami: I could relate some other incidents from that period. Satsvarupa dasa Goswami: Okay. Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada had come for two weeks or so, and Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evenings he would speak at the temple, and Sunday afternoon at the love feast. Tuesdays and Thursdays he would speak at one of the universities, and Saturday either at a university or at some other public place. One experience that struck me relates to the chanting. Of course, when I first came, being influenced by the hippie culture, I was looking for some special experience. The first kirtana in the temple--the devotees had made a maha-mantra sign with English letters inscribed in a Sanskrit style--and given my impersonalist background, I stared at the words on the mantra sign during the kirtana and saw the letters dissolve and then reform themselves and then unform themselves again. [laughter] I thought, "This is very potent. This is what I have been looking for." [laughter] And from the temple I bought a beautiful picture of Krsna with a cow, a fine Brijbasi print, and brought it to my apartment. I would chant really intensely, and it would start to glow and become silver, and I thought, "Wow, this is really powerful." But then later the devotees mentioned that Visnujana had told Srila Prabhupada that while chanting he saw different colors and that Prabhupada had said, "Don't worry, just keep chanting and they will go away." [laughter] So then I thought, "Maybe this isn't really what we're supposed to be looking for." But I would say that by Prabhupada's mercy I did have one nice experience. At a program at Boston College there was a dais for Srila Prabhupada at the front of a classroom, then an open space, and then seats for the students. Although the devotees usually sat on the floor, at that engagement they occupied the chairs in the front two rows. And for the last kirtana, they got up and they danced in a circle in front of Srila Prabhupada. During that kirtana I just felt this love within me, an overpowering love for everyone in the room. And then that sense of love expanded beyond the walls of the classroom to the city outside, to the country beyond the city, and ultimately to everyone on the entire planet, everyone in the universe, everywhere. I had never had any experience like it before. At the end of the kirtana I was overwhelmed, and I went up to Srila Prabhupada. I had never really gone up to him like that. I did ask questions after the lectures, and once I had been left alone in a room with him. The first time I came to drive him he told all the devotees to get ready, and I was left alone with him, and he made some little talk with me and I answered a few questions. But this time, without any reservation, without even thinking, I just went up to him. As I got close to him, I felt a spiritual energy, or aura, around him. I exclaimed, "Srila Prabhupada, this chanting is wonderful." Srila Prabhupada looked at me, and his eyes . . . One of the things the devotees had told me was that his eyes were always filled tears of love for Krsna. So his eyes were always laden with love, and he looked at me with those eyes, and he smiled--a huge smile, as Sally Agarwal said, "oceanic." It was as if his whole face broadened into a smile, his whole being. And then he started to chuckle--in what I knew was transcendental ecstasy. He was chuckling, almost silently, his body quaking gently. Waves of bliss radiated from him, expanding and filling the room. And he just said, "Thank you very much." One other incident strikes me now. On a Saturday there was an engagement at the Arlington Street Church. I hadn't started to drive Prabhupada yet, but I went to all the programs. After the program ended, everyone walked out to the street, and at the top of the steps of the church, to my left, there was Srila Prabhupada, standing almost next to me. As I was looking at him, he turned to me and said, "You are not this body. This is a very important point: You are not this body." Because of reading so many impersonal books, I had the idea that the guru doesn't go to you. He doesn't take any initiative. He just sits in Brahman, and people come to him. So at the time (I guess this is a little confession) I thought it lessened Prabhupada's position that he had approached me like that. But now, in retrospect, I can understand how kind and compassionate and merciful he was then--on the transcendental platform. Baradraj Prabhu was actually the first devotee to speak to me. After the program at Brandeis, one of the devotees, maybe Satsvarupa Maharaja, announced, "If anyone has a car and is driving to Boston or Harvard Square, please meet the devotees in the lobby, because we need a lift." I had my red Rambler station wagon, and I was planning to drive to Harvard Square, so I went to the foyer, and there I met Baradraj. He was intoxicated by Krsna consciousness. All the devotees were intoxicated by Prabhupada's presence, by the holy name, but he in particular came up to me and just started speaking: "In the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna showed His universal form to Arjuna, and it was more brilliant than thousands of suns. Arjuna's legs were trembling, and with folded hands he prayed, 'Krsna, please return to Your original two-handed form,' which is supreme." This nectar was just flowing from him. It all sounded so exotic and so amazing. Eventually the devotees piled into the car and, like Maharaja said, I don't think we could have held any more devotees. I was the driver, and with me in the front were two ladies. In the back seat were three or four devotees, and in the rear compartment I don't even know how many--everyone else had piled in. Although I didn't live in Cambridge or Boston, that night I was driving to the movies in Harvard Square, so I thought, "Oh, I can do that." My roommate and best friend, Gary Prince, was in the back compartment with Maharaja. (I am sorry you were stuffed in the back.) Because of our impersonal readings, my friend was saying that ultimately everything is void. And Satsvarupa was saying, "There is no void in the creation of God." My friend kept insisting, "Everything is ultimately void." I was overhearing them from the front, and I guess I was puffed up. (This is another chance for me to make a confession and beg apologies.) So I thought, "Oh, how silly that they are arguing over this." I thought I had it all figured out. So I turned to the back and announced something I had read in some Zen book: "It is not void, and it is not not-void, but to give it a name, we call it the void." I thought I had resolved the whole controversy. But still, they kept arguing; my pronouncement didn't stop them. In the front seat there was one lady named Jahnava, who was married to Nanda Kishor in that triple wedding. I was really trying to understand all these different paths and philosophies, so I asked her about Zen. She told me, "This world seems real, but it is illusory, like images on a movie screen. Now, if you withdraw your consciousness from the screen, you will find there is a beam of light." And I thought, "This is the best explanation I've ever heard, even better than the Zen books.And if you keep following that beam of light back," she continued, "you come to a point." I thought, "Wow, this is getting to the void." But then she said, "But behind that point there is a projector, and behind the projector there is a person." Then I thought, "This philosophy encompasses everything that Zen does, and more." Then I asked her about Yogananda. She dismissed him out of hand: "Oh, he is just a shopkeeper. Whatever you want, he keeps in stock. You want yoga, he will give you that. Whatever you ask for, he pulls off the shelf." Then she said, "At his ashram in California he has a Gandhi peace memorial. Now, Gandhi wasn't a worker for world peace. He was a politician who wanted to drive the British out of India." She just dismissed Yogananda: "He doesn't even know who Gandhi is." I thought, "She is speaking with authority." But I sensed it couldn't all be coming from her. How was it possible for such a young girl of twenty or twenty-two years to speak with such authority? But she had authority, and she had knowledge. And I knew it wasn't coming from her. Then I thought, "This must be coming from her teacher. I want to meet her teacher." That was the first night, the first car ride. Baradraj Prabhu, were you in the car? Baradraj dasa: Yes, I was in the car too, and when we came close to the subway station at Harvard Square, you stopped the car at a red light and all the devotees poured out. You were so eager to hear and so deeply absorbed in the conversation that you left the car right there in the middle of traffic, and you followed the devotees. You kept inquiring and talking and discussing. And there was big, big traffic congestion. And I was looking around to see if anyone was going to go back to that car. You just left it sitting there. That was wonderful--extremely wonderful. And I remember, and I may have shared it before, but I will tell the story Satsvarupa Maharaja mentioned, because you didn't want to. When you first came to the kirtana in the temple, after the lecture you raised your hand to ask a question. What was the question? Do you remember? Giriraj Swami: Yes. "There are so many swamis and yogis and masters, and each advocates a different process of self-realization, and each says his process is best. So how do I know which is actually best?" Baradraj dasa: It was a question to which, instead of giving a direct answer, Srila Prabhupada replied, "I see by your question that perhaps you think you are God." And that was shocking, because it was so direct and so intimate. That exchange between you and Srila Prabhupada was so unexpected and direct. And then you said very boldly and honestly, which was another amazing thing, "Yes, I must admit I was thinking like that." And that was even more astounding, that there was this kind of admission in front of Prabhupada, and the room just went hush. "Oh, what is going to happen next?" And then, to everyone's surprise, Prabhupada said, "That's all right." [laughter] He said, "You are god, but you are not that God. You are the kind of god who is sometimes god and sometimes not." [laughter] And to that answer, Giriraj Maharaja completely prostrated himself in front of Srila Prabhupada, as though he had done it a thousand times. It was so natural and so beautiful. I knew from that moment that there was a great, wonderful relationship between you and Srila Prabhupada. It is very inspiring. Giriraj Swami: Adya dasa, why don't tell us how you met Srila Prabhupada. Adya dasa: I came to New York in 1968. Coming to this country, I wanted to have a nice boat and a big plane, go to Hollywood, and live out that American dream. I was looking forward to becoming really Americanized. [laughter] My second or third day here, I read in the newspaper that such and such a swami--Hare Krsna--was speaking, and the next thing, I saw Srila Prabhupada at the temple in Manhattan, on Second Avenue, during the chanting. The movement had already started by then, but it was just the beginning. The biggest problem for me in this country was where to eat. Everything was just salt, pepper, and ketchup, and most of it was meat. Except for pizza, it was very difficult to find food. So I ended up going to the temple on Second Avenue, and prasada was the main attraction. I met Jayadvaita Swami there also, and then at that point, after seeing Prabhupada many times, I was seeing all the young boys shaving up and with sikha. I said to myself, "This is the way to do it." So I approached Srila Prabhupada: "I would like to join and give up all this and really I want to give it up and I want to push forward into the movement." Prabhupada looked at me and he said, "What are you here for?" I said, "I am on a student visa.So what will happen if you join?Well, I might have to go back.Then what good are you to me here?" he asked. So I said, "What do I do, Srila Prabhupada?" I was very hurt in those days that I did not get a chance to be part of the movement. "What should I do?" And he said, "You study, become grhastha, and set a nice example." And then I asked, "But what about . . ." And he said, "The future is waiting for you." I had no idea at that point what Srila Prabhupada meant. It manifested just a few years ago. Then finally my children were older, going to college, and I was praying every day, "Srila Prabhupada, you told me something will be coming. What is that? When am I going to get that?" Then three years ago at Srila Prabhupada's appearance festival at the Laguna Beach temple, everybody was giving statements, and I prayed, "Srila Prabhupada, now I have come today, and I am kindly requesting, What should be my position, what should I be doing now? You had mentioned something, but so far I have not done any service to ISKCON at all." Right after that presentation, two months later, there was the opening of a temple in my native town, Rajkot. I visited two months after that, and there were five or six devotees, and nothing happening, practically nobody coming to the temple. And I met His Holiness Mahavishnu Swami there. He said, "We need help. We need to develop." I couldn't believe it--Prabhupada was in my native town, and I was praying for some kind of direction: "What should I do now?" And here he was--Srila Prabhupada had come to Rajkot. So I made a presentation to my whole community. We have thousands of family members--uncles, aunts, cousins--and I made a presentation. I talked about Srila Prabhupada. Then I said, "This is your temple." And the town is very big, a few million. So next thing, all my family members, everybody, started coming to the temple, and now young boys and girls are wearing kurta, dhoti, saris, tilaka. They come on Sundays--thousands of people--and we can't even meet the demand. The temple is growing enormously. So I am praying to Satsvarupa Maharaja, Giriraj Swami, and to all of you, "Kindly bless me that I can follow Srila Prabhupada's mission in Rajkot and Gujarat and help spread the movement." Now I am seeing the vision that Srila Prabhupada had mentioned. All that time I was waiting for it, but now I feel that this is what was waiting for me. Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Bhrgupati dasa: I would like to tell the story of the first time I had the good fortune to see Prabhupada in person. It was late October or early November in 1973. We were told that Prabhupada was coming to stop briefly in Brooklyn en route to London and then to points further east. It was almost an unscheduled visit--we just found out the last minute. So we were all told to come back from sankirtana because Prabhupada was going to give a Bhagavad-gita class in the afternoon and then leave the next day. So we came back, and Prabhupada lectured on the Bhagavad-gita, Chapter Four, Text Thirteen: catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah. And at the end of his class, Prabhupada asked for questions. One devotee had a question and Prabhupada answered it. Then Prabhupada said, "Are there any other questions?" Nobody raised their hand. Prabhupada waited a second and looked around. Then he repeated, "Are there any other questions?" Still nobody raised their hand. At that time I was just a bhakta. I had joined just a few months earlier. So I thought, "What is going on here? It is obvious that Srila Prabhupada wants to continue speaking. Why aren't any of these devotees asking a question?" And I was feeling uncomfortable, thinking, "Somebody, come on and ask a question." And I thought to myself, "If Prabhupada asks again, I guess I will just have to ask a question." I didn't really have a question, but there had to be something. And sure enough, Prabhupada asked again: "Are there any other questions?" Still, nobody raised their hand. So I raised mine. Srutakirti was Prabhupada's secretary at that time, and his servant, and he was standing next to Prabhupada. I didn't really have a question, so I had to think fast. They called on me, and I said, "Srila Prabhupada, could you say something about the mercy of Lord Caitanya?" It wasn't really a proper question. I guess I didn't speak loudly or clearly enough, so Prabhupada didn't understand what I had said. He looked at Srutakirti and asked, "What did he say?" Srutakirti then repeated to Prabhupada what I had said--or perhaps he rephrased it or reformulated it as a proper question. I don't know, because I could not actually hear what Srutakirti was saying. But after listening to Srutakirti, Prabhupada sat up very straight on the vyasasana and went, "It is already said, Param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam." And he looked right at me and said, "So continue doing sankirtana and you will be victorious." [applause] When he said that, I felt very embarrassed and confused, because I thought maybe I was being chastised. I wasn't sure what had happened. And that was it. Nobody had any further questions, and Prabhupada left. Afterwards, the devotees came up to me and said, "Congratulations, Bhakta Jeff." I said, "Congratulations? What do you mean?" I think my face was flushed. They said, "Yes, you just received a personal instruction from Srila Prabhupada." I always remember that. Mahashakti dasa: I think it has been about twenty-eight years since I have seen you, Satsvarupa Maharaja; we spent some time together in Gita Nagari, and it was very nice. So it is good to see you again. It is always amazing to see the total enthusiasm that the devotees had around Srila Prabhupada in the early days and how the movement developed. I think that is why people come and hear all these pastimes. In 1974 Srila Prabhupada visited Philadelphia for Ratha-yatra. He gave a famous lecture then in the temple room, "Don't Jump over Guru To Get to Krsna." It had a lot of meaning to it, for then and for the future. You might listen to that tape--it was a very, very nice lecture. I couldn't understand Srila Prabhupada's gravity about the situation, but I think that is what got us. No one can understand the pure devotee's mind when he speaks things like that, with implications for the future as well. We just couldn't understand how deep he was. All of us were just awed and amazed and always very eager to be around him and listen to him. That evening Srila Prabhupada gave a talk upstairs. It was an intimate situation, with some invited guests. Ravindra Svarupa, the temple president, had invited a professor from the university to come and speak with Prabhupada, and the professor had brought some of his students. This professor was an impersonalist. We all got in the room, and right away he started to argue with Prabhupada. And Prabhupada got angry. I had never seen Prabhupada get angry like this. He started trembling with anger at the man. "Pranipatena. Pranipatena," he told him. "That is how you approach if you want knowledge. Pariprasnena. Humble. You have to be like a student." He wasn't like a student, and he had students with him, so I guess he was feeling a little puffed up. As Prabhupada was trembling with anger, outside the room Brahmananda, who was sannyasi then and Prabhupada's personal servant, heard that Prabhupada was angry. He was a really big man, and he immediately appeared at the door and ordered, "You, out!" [laughter] When you are confronted with a devotee that big, you just do what he says. So they all got up, the professor and about ten students, they all got up and left. I remember several instances of seeing Srila Prabhupada. I saw him in Mayapur in 1977. The first time we went to India, we took over an entire 747. The devotees were all chanting; Uttama Sloka was performing mangala-arati. They gave us little picnic boxes with huge samosas to take with us. It was a party like I couldn't believe. The 747 was bouncing up and down--mangala-arati, guru-puja, everything. It was the first 747 even to land in Dum Dum airport, Calcutta. So it was very interesting. So, I saw Srila Prabhupada in Mayapur. Just to see him was amazing. He was like the moon with the different sannyasis like stars around him. There was never a moment when Prabhupada was not photogenic--anytime you took a picture of him, it was perfect. In Mayapur he was just so in his home element. The movement was so vibrant and eager to please Prabhupada, to be around Prabhupada. Everyone was working extremely hard to publish Prabhupada's books. Baradraj didn't say anything about his artwork, but he did tremendous artwork for Prabhupada. We all enthusiastically distributed Prabhupada's books and did what Prabhupada wanted. The movement was based completely on Prabhupada's desire, and we all worked extremely hard. I have never worked so hard in my life, as I did in the first years I was in the movement. There was a magic, and I just wanted to convey that, because everyone is after that nectar. I think we still have that magic today. I am very impressed and happy with our good sannyasis and gurus, who are leading the movement. I see that magic. And I see the next generation of devotees eager to experience that magic. And all these pastimes that we relate--people are eager to hear about them, because they want to get close to Srila Prabhupada. So I am very happy for that, and I think we will expand and go on and on. Hare Krsna. Giriraj Swami: We have one devotee here, the son of our godbrother Amarendra Prabhu and godsister Gayatri Mataji. He was born in the movement. Parama Karuna Prabhu, do you have anything you would like to share with us? It doesn't have to be from your memories of Srila Prabhupada, because you were so young then, but it could be any thoughts or realizations or memories. Parama Karuna: Hare Krsna. I would just like to thank and encourage you all to continue to relate these stories for the rest of us. I know for myself, I find the most inspiration in hearing about Srila Prabhupada. Reading Srimad-Bhagavatam, Caitanya-caritamrta, I get much inspiration as well, but those stories seem very far away. They are removed from my own experience or level of realization. But Prabhupada's pastimes are so near, so close, and we even know some of the people involved in them. So actually I can really relate to them and enter into them to some degree. Satsvarupa Maharaja has done so much in regard to this service of writing volumes and volumes of books, particularly Prabhupada-lilamrta, about Srila Prabhupada and about those early years of this movement being established. And he has also encouraged many other devotees to write about their experiences. So I want to say from the perspective of those of us who weren't there at that time that you can do that more and more. Also those videos. Myself and some friends, like Bhakta Adam, we've had our greatest times watching those Prabhupada Memories videos. So thank you for arranging programs like this. Hare Krsna. Giriraj Swami: Rose Forkash is the seniormost amongst us today, and she too was touched by Srila Prabhupada. She met him personally and served under his direction, so we shall ask her to speak. Rose: Thank you. Hare Krsna. Unfortunately, my association with Srila Prabhupada was very brief, too brief. I met him in 1970, soon after my daughter joined the movement. Back then we had what were called hippies--I think you all have heard that word. And although my daughter was educated, she turned into a hippie. When she joined me in Santa Barbara, she decided to go back to school. After one of her classes, while she was sitting and waiting for the bus to take her home, she was given a Back to Godhead magazine by some devotees. She came home with the magazine and said, "I think I found what I have been looking for my whole life." She locked herself in her bedroom, and I didn't see her for two days. Then after two days she came out and said, "I am leaving for Los Angeles." I asked, "What goes on in Los Angeles?" And she said, "There is a temple that I think I am going to be joining." Needless to say, I viewed this as another hippie establishment. She wasn't there a week when my husband and I went to see her. Naturally, we went to visit her. And I must tell you that before then my association with young people had not been very pleasant. Most of the young people in Chicago had been on drugs. So when I met the president of the temple in Los Angeles, Karandhara, the first thing I said to him was "If there are any drugs going on around here, you're going to hear from me." [laughter] Anyway, we stayed overnight. It turned out that Prabhupada was in town and that he was going to give a lecture. I thought this was a good chance to find out what was really going on with the Hare Krsna movement. After his lecture, which I really don't remember too much about . . . Mostly I was just interested in this large man, who I thought was so big. It wasn't until he stood that I saw his stature was not really that big, but he appeared very large to me. He gave his lecture and then said, "Anybody here would like to ask a question?" And I was very eager. I had my hand up right away. He said, "Yes." And I asked, "If this movement is so good for all of us, why was it so late coming here?" He replied, "That is a good question." Then he said, "It wasn't late; you are late!" [laughter] All the devotees in the room were so happy that he had defeated me. Then he pointed to all of them and said, "And all of you were late too!" [laughter] I felt good then. It wasn't until perhaps a year later when he came back to Los Angeles that I met him again and we spoke very briefly. Then, two or three years later, I decided to do my own service, writing letters to the parents of devotees. It came to be called the FOLK program, "Friends of Lord Krishna." So few parents came to visit their children and so few children spoke nicely about their parents that I thought I could bring some harmony between both and that more parents could come and visit. So the program began, and it was successful to a degree, and I got a lovely letter from Srila Prabhupada commending the service. The next time Srila Prabhupada returned to L.A. I visited with him while he sat in the garden. He was happy to speak with me. He said, "Mrs. Forkash, you should be wearing tilaka." He called the girls to come closer to me. He said, "You should have tilaka," pointing with his finger to my forehead. So the girls quickly put on the tilaka. That night I washed it off and went to bed, and when I got up in the morning there was some blue mark on my forehead, right where Srila Prabhupada had pointed. We tried wiping it off; we tried rubbing it off. We put creams on it. I even went to a skin doctor. But even to this day, if you care to look at me, you will see it still there. That was a little bit of magic. So, this is my story with Srila Prabhupada. There are so many things I could say, but I don't want be too long. I am very happy to have the association of Prabhupada's devotees. The nicest times for me are when I am in the association of devotees, especially my dear friend Giriraj. I thank you. [applause] Giriraj Swami: I will conclude with one last story. Satsvarupa Maharaja described the first time I saw Srila Prabhupada and met the devotees, at Brandeis University. After that, every day I would come to Srila Prabhupada's program, either at the temple or outside the temple. And I thought that everything about Krsna consciousness was perfect--the chanting, the philosophy, the prasada, the association. I thought that everything was perfect and that it would go on like that forever. Then one day the devotees told me, "Prabhupada is leaving. We are going to the airport to see him off." I hadn't realized that Srila Prabhupada would ever leave. I had thought this was what Krsna consciousness was. They explained that he had other centers and that he had to visit them. Then I thought, "Well, maybe this is the one defect: the spiritual master has to leave." I went to the airport with the devotees, and at the airport almost all of them were crying. One especially, Arundhati, whom I often asked questions, was crying a lot. So I approached her, "Why is everyone crying?" And she replied, "Prabhupada said that on the absolute platform there is no difference between meeting and separation. Both are occasions of ecstasy." Her profound answer made sense philosophically, but still I wondered whether it would work practically. The plane took off, and the devotees stayed where they were, looking out the windows. When they began to move, they explained that Srila Prabhupada had instructed that when the spiritual master leaves, you should watch the plane until the last speck disappears in the sky, just as the gopis watched the chariot of Krsna when He left Vrndavana to go to Mathura until the last speck disappeared. It all made sense, but still, I wasn't sure if it was practical. A few days later, we were doing harinama-sankirtana in front of the Copley Square subway station, chanting as usual. (Of course, the chanting was always wonderful.) And suddenly I felt Srila Prabhupada's presence. It was tangible, as if he had just descended on the place. His presence was palpable. Then I thought, "Yes, what she said is true--what Prabhupada said is true." And then I thought, "Yes, everything about Krsna consciousness is perfect." By chanting, by hearing, by remembering, as Satsvarupa Maharaja said, we can experience Srila Prabhupada's presence. And I have, through our association today, been given Srila Prabhupada's association, and that is the greatest blessing, the most valuable gift. So I want to thank all of you, especially His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Goswami, for coming and creating this opportunity to hear about Srila Prabhupada, to speak about him, and to remember him, and thus to feel his sublime presence. Hare Krsna. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are d to the Google Groups "ISKCON - Hare Krishna - Nectar of devotion group" group. 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