Guest guest Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Dear Madana-mohana Prabhu Please accept my best wishes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Bhakta-vijna-vinasa Narasimhadeva ki jaya! > >Finally I added something that I have wanted to for several years, a copy > >of Gopala Bhatta Gosvami's "Sat-kriya-sara-dipika" in PDF (1 MB) to be > >found at > > Dear Shyamasundara Prabhu, > > Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. > > Thank you very much for the rare book. It is indeed very useful. I am told that the actual work was done by the Bhakti Vidya Purna Svami's students at the Gurukula. So they are the ones who deserve the thanks. I just found an old version of it on my hard drive and made it into a PDF not knowing who the translators were. You can approach that gurukula (via Priti Vardana Prabhu) to get an updated and corrected hard copy version of Sat-kriya-sara-dipika and support them at the same time for their hard work. They deserve our support. > May I ask > you if you happen to have an access to Parasara Samhita too by a chance? > > Begging to remain > > your servant > Madana-mohana das Do you mean Parasara Samhita on Pancaratrika? If so then yes I do have a rare copy, one of only 1000 printed. It was given to me by the #3 archaka of Sri Rangam, Muralidhar Bhattar, last January. But this book is not in PDF form nor is it translated into English, it is in Sanskrit, Tamil and Telegu. It is said to be a minor work on Pancaratrika. A nice feature of it is that it contains many bija, mula and gayatri mantras for various avataras. I also recently got a copy of the "Kanva Samhita of the Narada Pancaratrika" also in PDF but again not in English, only Sanskrit-devanagari. It was transcribed from a hand written copy of the text that was in the possession of Rangaraja Bhattar the late father of Muralidhar Bhattar. One thing I learned from the #2 Archaka in Sri Rangam, Gopala Bhattar, when I was there last month. That being that unless you are initiated into the text, that is, unless you are instructed about the text by an actual practitioner of the text you may very well not understand it. This is especially true of the Paramesvara Samhita which is the top most text on Pancaratra literature (according to him, this is not my field of expertise, I am just repeating what I was told). He told me that one who knows Paramesvara Samhita can worship in any temple but one who for example only knows Laksmi tantra (or some other pancaratrik text) can only worship in the temple that uses it but not in others. The Archaka went on to explain that the book will be unintelligible to one who has not been trained to use it by his guru. It is full of code meanings that are easy to understand when explained to the student but a stone wall of silence to others no matter how much Sanskrit they may know. He gave me an example of a verse that instructed how to wake up the deities. When he read it to me and translated it into English one would not recognize it to be an instruction on waking the Lord. However when the guru explains then it is clear that that is the meaning. So my point being that simply by having a text may not be very useful unless one has been taught by a guru coming in that line. The same goes for astrology. You may possess every book on the subject and be a veritable terror when it comes to your knowledge of Sanskrit but unless you have been instructed by someone who knows the subject you will not be any closer to understanding the subject than if you had never read the books in the first place. For as Varaha Mihira has stated: "little is written but much is meant." These books were meant as supplementary texts to guide the student along with what he had heard from his guru. What he heard from his guru was more important. Much was purposely left out of written texts to keep the knowledge safe from the profane. Subjects like astrology can be dangerous if it falls in the wrong hands. For as it is said: "A fool with a tool is still a fool." Only now he is more dangerous. This is one reason out of several that I accept very few students out of the many who have requested. Yours in the service of my eternal master Srila Prabhupada Shyamasundara Dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 PAMHO AGTSP On Jul 31, 2006, at 3:31 AM, Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA) wrote: > I am told that the actual work was done by the Bhakti Vidya Purna > Svami's > students at the Gurukula. So they are the ones who deserve the > thanks. I > just found an old version of it on my hard drive and made it into a > PDF not > knowing who the translators were. You can approach that gurukula > (via Priti > Vardana Prabhu) to get an updated and corrected hard copy version of > Sat-kriya-sara-dipika and support them at the same time for their > hard work. > They deserve our support. This is correct. The initial work was done by Bhanu Swami and then Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami's people. However the text is more than just a translation, it also contains some appendices that are of practical use. Also it is not an exact translation or rendering of the text because there are in fact many Viniyogah mantras missing which are not usually chanted (Sorry if you don't know what these are ask me sometime.) Also secret mantras given in diksha like the sannyasa mantra are not published though naturally they are their in the original text. Unfortunately it does not also contain svaras for the Vedic Sanskrit portions of mantras. What really is needed is a tape and/or video of the performances. > Do you mean Parasara Samhita on Pancaratrika? More likely he means Parasara Hora Sastra. As you say Shyam Parasara Samhita is a minor work of the Pancaratra. Is this the edition by V.M. Sala press Bangalore 1898 Telegu Script? > If so then yes I do have a > rare copy, one of only 1000 printed. It was given to me by the #3 > archaka of > Sri Rangam, Muralidhar Bhattar, last January. But this book is not > in PDF > form nor is it translated into English, it is in Sanskrit, Tamil > and Telegu. > It is said to be a minor work on Pancaratrika. A nice feature of it > is that > it contains many bija, mula and gayatri mantras for various avataras. It would be nice if you could scan it. > I also recently got a copy of the "Kanva Samhita of the Narada > Pancaratrika" > also in PDF but again not in English, only Sanskrit-devanagari. It was > transcribed from a hand written copy of the text that was in the > possession > of Rangaraja Bhattar the late father of Muralidhar Bhattar. Also nice if you could scan it. > One thing I learned from the #2 Archaka in Sri Rangam, Gopala > Bhattar, when > I was there last month. That being that unless you are initiated > into the > text, that is, unless you are instructed about the text by an actual > practitioner of the text you may very well not understand it. This is > especially true of the Paramesvara Samhita which is the top most > text on > Pancaratra literature (according to him, this is not my field of > expertise, > I am just repeating what I was told). He told me that one who knows > Paramesvara Samhita can worship in any temple but one who for > example only > knows Laksmi tantra (or some other pancaratrik text) can only > worship in the > temple that uses it but not in others. Paramesvara Samhita is the main Samhita used in the Sri Rangam temple. He is correct that it is one of the it is very important. There are three major important Pancaratra Samhitas: Jayakhya, Pauskara and Sattvata, these are called the Ratna Trayi or three gems of the Pancaratra. They are used in the three major temples of the Sri Vaisnavas, Sri Rangam, Kanchi Varadarajan, and Melkote Tirunarayanan (the fourth main temple of the Sri Vaisnavas is Tirumala which is NOT Pancaratric but Vaikhanasic). There are three other Samhitas that are considered commentaries on these three Isvara, Padma and Paramesvara and are therefore also essential. Most new temples made these days are established according to Padma. However Rangaraj Bhattar established the Venkateshvara temple in LA according to Paramesvara just like in Sri Rangam. > The Archaka went on to explain that the book will be unintelligible > to one > who has not been trained to use it by his guru. It is full of code > meanings > that are easy to understand when explained to the student but a > stone wall > of silence to others no matter how much Sanskrit they may know. He > gave me > an example of a verse that instructed how to wake up the deities. > When he > read it to me and translated it into English one would not > recognize it to > be an instruction on waking the Lord. However when the guru > explains then it > is clear that that is the meaning. Yes, this is a common feature of certain Sanskrit literature. Through the use of deceptive or technical terminology the actual meanings can be hidden. Mantras can be hidden by dispersing their syllables in certain patterns amongst the text. What you really need is to learn it from someone who has understood all the mysteries of the text from his guru. Otherwise there are also some modern works called prayogas based on the Samhitas that experts have written over time to give step by step practical instructions. Most pancaratrins have note books which are like these prayogas to help them rather than use the Samhitas directly. Then of course much of the practice is memorized. > So my point being that simply by having a text may not be very > useful unless > one has been taught by a guru coming in that line. > > The same goes for astrology. You may possess every book on the > subject and > be a veritable terror when it comes to your knowledge of Sanskrit > but unless > you have been instructed by someone who knows the subject you will > not be > any closer to understanding the subject than if you had never read > the books > in the first place. For as Varaha Mihira has stated: "little is > written but > much is meant." These books were meant as supplementary texts to > guide the > student along with what he had heard from his guru. What he heard > from his > guru was more important. Much was purposely left out of written > texts to > keep the knowledge safe from the profane. Subjects like astrology > can be > dangerous if it falls in the wrong hands. For as it is said: "A > fool with a > tool is still a fool." Only now he is more dangerous. This is one > reason out > of several that I accept very few students out of the many who have > requested. Yes, I am sure that it is the same for Jyotish and other forms of Brahmanical knowledge. The idea is that knowledge personified is Sarasvati. So just as Sarasvati being female needs to be protected (according to Vedic ideals) by male members of society, similarly the brahmins protect all forms of knowledge. This is not to say that they do not also freely give spiritual knowledge but just that as Shyam pointed out some knowledge was only meant for certain classes of people and not for everyone. There were qualifications that people had to possess before they could be admitted to the study and practice of certain forms of knowledge. Originally it much of it would have been simply memorized and repeated orally from Master to Student as is still done with the Vedas today. Then when things were written down due to shortened memory and increase in volume of knowledge it may have been enough to simply write in Sanskrit as only Dvijas would have read this. Finally these technical aspects of the texts were incorporated or texts were shortened and made more esoteric by putting them in sutra form. This presented a final barrier against misuse of the knowledge by the unqualified. Please note that in Sri Sampradaya not all Brahmins are qualified to worship in the Temples. Temple archakas have a much higher degree of training than the regular Sri Vaisnava householder who is qualified only for home worship. ys Gaura Keshava das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Dear Gaura Kesava Prabhu, PAMHO AGTSP > > Vardana Prabhu) to get an updated and corrected hard copy version of > > Sat-kriya-sara-dipika and support them at the same time for their > > hard work. > > They deserve our support. > > This is correct. The initial work was done by Bhanu Swami and then > Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami's people. However the text is more than just > a translation, it also contains some appendices that are of practical > use. Except for the one on Muhurta that is very misleading and practically useless or worse if you are a lay person. >Also it is not an exact translation or rendering of the text > because there are in fact many Viniyogah mantras missing which are > not usually chanted (Sorry if you don't know what these are ask me > sometime.) Things like mantras you chant before chanting the main mantra, indictaing the chanda, deva and Rsi associated with the mantra. And other such stuff. >Also secret mantras given in diksha like the sannyasa > mantra are not published though naturally they are their in the > original text. Unfortunately it does not also contain svaras for the > Vedic Sanskrit portions of mantras. What really is needed is a tape > and/or video of the performances. The one I uploaded is an early version I am told they have updated it and made several revisions as I mentioned earlier so perhaps these svaras are now there for the Vaidik mantras. > > > Do you mean Parasara Samhita on Pancaratrika? > > More likely he means Parasara Hora Sastra. I at first thought that but that is not related to the topic of Sat-Kriya-Sara-Dipika >As you say Shyam Parasara > Samhita is a minor work of the Pancaratra. Is this the edition by > V.M. Sala press Bangalore 1898 Telegu Script? No it was published in the last 5 years and as I mentioned it is in Devanagari, Telegu and Tamil. It has a review by D White. Why they include him I don't know, he is exactly the kind of person who I would exclude. > > > If so then yes I do have a > > rare copy, one of only 1000 printed. It was given to me by the #3 > > archaka of > > Sri Rangam, Muralidhar Bhattar, last January. But this book is not > > in PDF > > form nor is it translated into English, it is in Sanskrit, Tamil > > and Telegu. > > It is said to be a minor work on Pancaratrika. A nice feature of it > > is that > > it contains many bija, mula and gayatri mantras for various avataras. > > It would be nice if you could scan it. It is not in the public domain as it is just recently published. > > > I also recently got a copy of the "Kanva Samhita of the Narada > > Pancaratrika" > > also in PDF but again not in English, only Sanskrit-devanagari. It was > > transcribed from a hand written copy of the text that was in the > > possession > > of Rangaraja Bhattar the late father of Muralidhar Bhattar. > > Also nice if you could scan it. Maybe you are rushing through my texts too fast. If you read what I said you will see that it is a PDF already (-: > > > So my point being that simply by having a text may not be very > > useful unless > > one has been taught by a guru coming in that line. > > > > The same goes for astrology. You may possess every book on the > > subject and > > be a veritable terror when it comes to your knowledge of Sanskrit > > but unless > > you have been instructed by someone who knows the subject you will > > not be > > any closer to understanding the subject than if you had never read > > the books > > in the first place. For as Varaha Mihira has stated: "little is > > written but > > much is meant." These books were meant as supplementary texts to > > guide the > > student along with what he had heard from his guru. What he heard > > from his > > guru was more important. Much was purposely left out of written > > texts to > > keep the knowledge safe from the profane. Subjects like astrology > > can be > > dangerous if it falls in the wrong hands. For as it is said: "A > > fool with a > > tool is still a fool." Only now he is more dangerous. This is one > > reason out > > of several that I accept very few students out of the many who have > > requested. > > Yes, I am sure that it is the same for Jyotish and other forms of > Brahmanical knowledge. The idea is that knowledge personified is > Sarasvati. So just as Sarasvati being female needs to be protected > (according to Vedic ideals) by male members of society, similarly the > brahmins protect all forms of knowledge. This is not to say that they > do not also freely give spiritual knowledge but just that as Shyam > pointed out some knowledge was only meant for certain classes of > people and not for everyone. There were qualifications that people > had to possess before they could be admitted to the study and > practice of certain forms of knowledge. Originally it much of it > would have been simply memorized and repeated orally from Master to > Student as is still done with the Vedas today. Then when things were > written down due to shortened memory and increase in volume of > knowledge it may have been enough to simply write in Sanskrit as only > Dvijas would have read this. Finally these technical aspects of the > texts were incorporated or texts were shortened and made more > esoteric by putting them in sutra form. This presented a final > barrier against misuse of the knowledge by the unqualified. But now-a-days anyone who can buy a computer and a cracked version of Parasara's Light thinks that he is an astrologer (-: or maybe that should be )-: Such barriers also meant that the astrologer was of a higher intellectual caliber and hence the predictions actually came true. > Please > note that in Sri Sampradaya not all Brahmins are qualified to worship > in the Temples. Yes I know that. I have spent quite a bit time there staying with the Archakas. Muralidhar says "that I am now part of the family--my name is on the ration card." (-: I see how Muralidhar has several students who he is training to do yajnas etc. Even the ones who are working in the vast temple complex in Sri Rangam most are only qualified to offer dipa etc. Of course now the DMK government has passed a law that anyone can become an archaka! That only Tamil and no Sanskrit is to be used in government controlled temples such as Sri Rangam. Archakas such as Muralidhar Bhattar have to present documentation of all their educational training etc. Most archakas can not document anything because they started at about age 7-8 learning from their fathers and in the Veda-patha-sala. BTW they just opened a new Veda-patha-sala beside the Jagannatha temple in Sri Rangam. >Temple archakas have a much higher degree of training > than the regular Sri Vaisnava householder who is qualified only for > home worship. Is this why women do not worship in the temples? I mean if even most Brahmanas are not qualified then how can the women do it. Comments please. What is involved in the Archaka training? I know that Muralidhar told me he started at about 7-8 and did his first Brahmosava at about 17. What a Brahmosava is I don't know. But from what he told me and from what I have seen that is only the beginning, it is an on going training and educational process that lasts a life time. Comments please. yhs Shyamasundara Dasa www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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