Guest guest Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Namaste all I write this with great hesitation; because I may end up hurting some or all, though unintentionally. That is why the unusual heading for this post. I have been observing carefully the trends of the different posts on this list. I feel that the following are reasonable observations. All of us are intellectually great. All of us have interesting points to convey. None of us (including me) can resist the tendency to make our points of view rather forcefully. These three make us, at least some of us, commit the following: a. If the other person makes a point, we want to correct it immediately. b. We try to use all our intellect in trying to be one up with him. c. We cannot resist the temptation of pursuing the same point with more and more posts. The result of all this is our list is overflooded with posts. Everywhere there is an excess of intellectual exercise. In this process of arguments and counter-arguments we lose ourselves in one-up-manship. I remember something I used to do half a century ago with my two sons, then 7 and 9 years old. They used to quarrel. Nothing serious – only petty boyish quarrels. Every time they bring the matter to me for immediate ‘judgment’ or ‘adjudication’ I neither judge nor adjudicate but allow each of them two or three minutes to state their version of whatever matter was at issue. I make them go through a court-like process where when one is stating his case the other should not interfere, and so on. Finally when they are most eager to have the ‘judgment’ I tell them they should come back 24 hours later and present the same case for judgment. Well, naturally they go away very reluctantly. But what happens the next day, you can all guess. By that time new points at issue would have come up and the previous day’s issue would have lost all its teeth! I think we, members of this list, might try some such thing. Everytime we want to present our point of view in apposition to the other’s, inspite of our feeling intensely that we have the correct answer, we might wait for some time (if not 24 hours!) before we type it and post it. Incidentally I waited for full three days to post this after I typed it. Also when two or three posts of ours have not convinced the other person, let us leave it there. Let the matter sink not only into the other person but in us! In sum, let not our intellects be sharper than our faith! PraNAms and apologies to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk > wrote: Namaste all I write this with great hesitation; because I may end up hurting some or all, though unintentionally. That is why the unusual heading for this post. I have been observing carefully the trends of the different posts on this list. I feel that the following are reasonable observations. All of us are intellectually great. All of us have interesting points to convey. None of us (including me) can resist the tendency to make our points of view rather forcefully. Dear Professor Sir, That is because we think that the intellect is the acid-test for truth, little realizing that the emptying of the mind-born conclusions is the way to understand truth, which can be realized only in the action of silence. But in a session like this it is highly difficult for mediocre persons like me to overcome the intellectual predilections and approach truth in a judgemental way. Perhaps it demands a serious quest, realizing that the dialectic process is not the way for it. There is an unconscious mechanism in us making us think that the others are on the wrong, and we have to correct them. This is an ingrained vasana. Thank you for your piece of advise to the forum. yours respectfully, Sankarraman See the all-new, redesigned .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Namaste Prof-ji, Thanks for sharing this beautifully and objectively. I have learnt something today. While on this subject, I would like to also relate an incident in my life. I once invited a good friend of mine, who was keen to learn Advaita Vedanta, to a Vedanta Satsanga led by a disciple of a reputable Swami. At that time my friend was in the process of discovering Vedanta. After the satsanga, my friend asked the disciple about the differences between Saiva Siddhanta and Vedanta. It was a plain harmless question. However, the disciple took it that my friend was a purvapakshi (opponent of Vedanta) and started bashing Saiva Siddhanta. I was a little taken aback by his reaction to the question. All that my friend wanted was an objective answer but it turned out to be very subjective monologue. My friend never returned to the satsanga and I felt so sorry for him. The whole session became a defence of Vedanta rather than an explanation of its merits. This was primarily due to the fact that sometimes we try to see more than what is questioned. Instead of trying to address the question, we assume what the questioner REALLY wants to know. This itself is Adhyasa. And I am sorry to say this happens alot in spiritual circles. Instead of clarifiying and trying to understand what the question is all about we shift our target towards the questioner. In fact, I have been a victim and I have also made others victims. And I feel very sorry for others because I know exactly how it feels to be a misunderstood victim. In the same spirit of your request, I would also like to request that we be objective and sensitive in our discussions without compromising Satyam. Kathir On 8/3/06, V. Krishnamurthy <profvk > wrote: > Namaste all > > I write this with great hesitation; because I may end up > hurting some or all, though unintentionally. That is why > the unusual heading for this post. > > I have been observing carefully the trends of the different > posts on this list. I feel that the following are > reasonable observations. All of us are intellectually > great. All of us have interesting points to convey. None > of us (including me) can resist the tendency to make our > points of view rather forcefully. > > These three make us, at least some of us, commit the > following: > > a. If the other person makes a point, we want to correct it > immediately. > b. We try to use all our intellect in trying to be one up > with him. > c. We cannot resist the temptation of pursuing the same > point with more and more posts. > > The result of all this is our list is overflooded with > posts. Everywhere there is an excess of intellectual > exercise. In this process of arguments and > counter-arguments we lose ourselves in one-up-manship. > > I remember something I used to do half a century ago with > my two sons, then 7 and 9 years old. They used to quarrel. > Nothing serious – only petty boyish quarrels. Every time > they bring the matter to me for immediate 'judgment' or > 'adjudication' I neither judge nor adjudicate but allow > each of them two or three minutes to state their version of > whatever matter was at issue. I make them go through a > court-like process where when one is stating his case the > other should not interfere, and so on. Finally when they > are most eager to have the 'judgment' I tell them they > should come back 24 hours later and present the same case > for judgment. Well, naturally they go away very > reluctantly. But what happens the next day, you can all > guess. By that time new points at issue would have come up > and the previous day's issue would have lost all its teeth! > > I think we, members of this list, might try some such > thing. Everytime we want to present our point of view in > apposition to the other's, inspite of our feeling intensely > that we have the correct answer, we might wait for some > time (if not 24 hours!) before we type it and post it. > Incidentally I waited for full three days to post this > after I typed it. Also when two or three posts of ours > have not convinced the other person, let us leave it there. > Let the matter sink not only into the other person but in > us! > > In sum, let not our intellects be sharper than our faith! > > PraNAms and apologies to all advaitins > profvk > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 advaitin, "K Kathirasan" <brahmasatyam wrote: > > At that time my friend was in the process of > discovering Vedanta. After the satsanga, my friend asked the disciple > about the differences between Saiva Siddhanta and Vedanta. It was a > plain harmless question. However, the disciple took it that my friend > was a purvapakshi (opponent of Vedanta) and started bashing Saiva > Siddhanta. From Sankarraman Dear sir, Ignoring the intolerance of the Vedantin, will it not be true to say that the Saiva Siddhantha presupposes the evolution of the soul from the anava mala into the Sivahood,which is beyond the 36 tatvas; whereas Vedanta says that the constriction of the soul itself is unreal? Further, Vedanta disowns creation and dislodges even Iswara, Siddhanta believes in the nirguana aspect of Sivam which projects the world, which is not illusory but a manifestation of the Divine. yours sincerely, Sankarraman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran > wrote: But in a session like this it is highly difficult for mediocre persons like me to overcome the intellectual predilections and approach truth in a judgemental way. From Sankarraman I request to be permitted to state that the last mentioned phrase shold be non-jugdgemental. I regret this serious mistake. Sankarraman How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Namaste dear Members: Profvk, one of the senior members of the list (also a moderator of this list) have made some valuable suggestions to improve our ethical behavior while posting messages in the list. Profvk is very diplomatic in his choice of the thread title and mathematically precise in his observations. The job of a moderator becomes quite difficult due to the fact any comments can potentially hurt someone unintentionally. As Profvk rightly pointed out, the moderators always write with great hesitation to avoid hurting someone's ego unintentionally. Though they don't always state explicitly, everything said and written always come implicitly with an apology. The moderators do recognize the important role that they have to play to keep the list to maintain the guidelines and achieve the goals. Sometime they do make mistakes (error is human and none is exempted from committing an error) and affected members should feel free to send their feedback by email to advaitins . The purpose of any note attached to a posting with moderator's observations is only to maintain list guidelines and to help the poster to improve his/her presentation style and nothing more. When this list is started, it was totally an un-moderated list. Even now, the list moderates only the new members and the moderation is removed after observing several postings from them. Currently, the list moderates only very few (less than 5 of the long-standing plus newly enrolled members) and almost all members enjoy the freedom to post without any intervention from the list moderators. Given this fact, Profvk's observations and suggestions are quite appropriate. Moderators always welcome your ideas and suggestions for improving the postings and subject matter for our discussions and please email your feedback to advaitins .. Thanks for listening, Advaitin List Moderators advaitins advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > > Namaste all > > I write this with great hesitation; because I may end up > hurting some or all, though unintentionally. That is why > the unusual heading for this post. > > I have been observing carefully the trends of the different > posts on this list. I feel that the following are > reasonable observations. All of us are intellectually > great. All of us have interesting points to convey. None > of us (including me) can resist the tendency to make our > points of view rather forcefully. > > These three make us, at least some of us, commit the > following: > > a. If the other person makes a point, we want to correct it > immediately. > b. We try to use all our intellect in trying to be one up > with him. > c. We cannot resist the temptation of pursuing the same > point with more and more posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.