Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Dear Sir , How do we figure out whether a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. Ashish 20th August 1983 3:12 AM Chandigarh , India Thanks and Ragards Ashish Ashish Saxena SDET Microsoft India R&D Centre Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 || hare räma kåñna || Dear Ashish, Namaskar For love marriage, look for a link between the UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged marriages, the 8th house needs to have an influence on the UL/7th house. In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has predicted marriage for you within the next year - so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at present? This is just for learning. Best wishes, Samir At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: >Dear Sir , > How do we figure out whether > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > >Ashish >20th August 1983 >3:12 AM >Chandigarh , India > >Thanks and Ragards >Ashish > > >Ashish Saxena >SDET >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > >Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for >- ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers./> >Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Dear Samir namaskar, Thanks for your input. Well Visti ji said that I would meet my partner in about an year from now, I dont think it means marriage , also I m not into a relationship rite now, could u throw some light on timing of marriage thanks and regards ashish Samir Shah <solaris.smoke > wrote: || hare räma kåñna || Dear Ashish, Namaskar For love marriage, look for a link between the UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged marriages, the 8th house needs to have an influence on the UL/7th house. In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has predicted marriage for you within the next year - so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at present? This is just for learning. Best wishes, Samir At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: Dear Sir , How do we figure out whether a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. Ashish 20th August 1983 3:12 AM Chandigarh , India Thanks and Ragards Ashish Ashish Saxena SDET Microsoft India R&D Centre Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Ashish Saxena SDET Microsoft India R&D Centre Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Samir, Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? Best wishes, Sourav =============================================================== , Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > || hare räma kåñna || > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an influence on the UL/7th house. > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > present? This is just for learning. > > Best wishes, > > Samir > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > >Dear Sir , > > How do we figure out whether > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > >Ashish > >20th August 1983 > >3:12 AM > >Chandigarh , India > > > >Thanks and Ragards > >Ashish > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > >SDET > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > >- > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers./>\ > >Answers > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 || hare räma kåñna || Dear Sourav, Namaskar Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and Venus represent our desires (and their objects) and their influence on the UL causes us to allow our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. Best wishes, Samir PS Would you mind sending me your birth details privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > >Dear Samir, > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > >Best wishes, > >Sourav > >=============================================================== >, Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an influence on the UL/7th house.. > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > >Dear Sir , > > > How do we figure out whether > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > >Ashish > > >20th August 1983 > > >3:12 AM > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > >SDET > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > >- > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > p://in.answers./> > > >Answers > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Samir, Namaskar. Nope. If you consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). There are 8 kinds of marriages according to Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not only based on emotions but some other kinds of criteria also. There are several kinds of so-called arranged marriages and each have a karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of arranges and selected marriages and dealth with this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa Files section under Raths Papers). Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. Best wishes, Sourav ================================================================= , Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > || hare räma kåñna || > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > Best wishes, > > Samir > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Sourav > > > >=============================================================== > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > >20th August 1983 > > > >3:12 AM > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > >SDET > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > >- > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > p://in.answers./> > > > >Answers > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 om guruve namah! Dear Sourav jee, consider Prince Charles chart for this discussion. UL in 8th house, A7 in 9th house, Venus in 3rd house, 7th house empty, 5th house mars in scorpio, A8 in 12th house, 8th house lord saturn in second house leo. Two love marriages! chart C1- Arranged marriage (100%) UL, A7 in 4th house, 5th house libra empty, 7th house saggitarius empty, venus in 8th house, A8 in 10th house, gemini lagna. chart C2-Arranged Marriage ( 100%) UL in 10th house, A7 in 3rd house, venus exalted in 5th house, scorpio lagna with mars, Moon in 8th house( marana karaka sthana), 8th house lord Me in 7th with sun in taurus, A8 in aries with Sani. As I am learning, I would like to know, should we link all these to satisfy the known result or should we find the concrete reasons responsible for this result. Please do not mind for entering into your discussion. om namah shivai! S P I Sourav <souravc108 > wrote: || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Samir, Namaskar. Nope. If you consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). There are 8 kinds of marriages according to Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not only based on emotions but some other kinds of criteria also. There are several kinds of so-called arranged marriages and each have a karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of arranges and selected marriages and dealth with this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa Files section under Raths Papers). Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. Best wishes, Sourav ================================================================= , Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > || hare räma kåñna || > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > Best wishes, > > Samir > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Sourav > > > >=============================================================== > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > >20th August 1983 > > > >3:12 AM > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > >SDET > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > >- > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > p://in.answers./> > > > >Answers > > > > > > Share your photos with the people who matter at Canada Photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 || hare räma kåñna || Dear Sourav, Namaskar Vistiji has taught several times on this list about the involvement of the 8th house/lord in arranged marriage, and there are several examples of this in the archives. I hope he will clarify this now, and elaborate/correct the reasons that I suggested for this so that we are sure. If we use Sanjayji's definition of an arranged marriage as one where the social circles of the bride and groom are involved in bringing about the marriage. So this is a broad category which excludes all of Pisaca, Rakshasa, Asura and Gandharva vivaha, but includes the other four types. Of course, the lines are not solid and marriages can be a mixture of different types - in which case the level of social circle involvement becomes subjective - but the most important subject is then the native himself/herself, I think. Best wishes, Samir At 17:54 04/08/2006, you wrote: >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > >Dear Samir, > > Namaskar. Nope. If you > consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then > 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd > house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka > to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. > Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of > Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). > >There are 8 kinds of marriages according to >Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are >pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of >calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not >only based on emotions but some other kinds of >criteria also. There are several kinds of >so-called arranged marriages and each have a >karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of >arranges and selected marriages and dealth with >this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa >Files section under Raths Papers). > >Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. > >Best wishes, > >Sourav > >================================================================= > > >, Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Samir > > > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > >=============================================================== > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an > influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > >20th August 1983 > > > > >3:12 AM > > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > > >SDET > > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > > >- > > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > > p://in.answers./> > > > > >Answers > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Samir, Namaskar. O.K. I will await Visti-ji's comments in this regard. I think what Sanjay-ji taught and what Manu has given as definitions are pretty solid demarcations. Each individual case varies. The categorizing of arranged/selected etc is broad and includes several motivations. Each case needs to be considered separately. That is why I try not to answer these kinds of questions for love or arranged marriages. People only think there can be two only. Best wishes, Sourav =============================================================== , Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > || hare räma kåñna || > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > Vistiji has taught several times on this list > about the involvement of the 8th house/lord in > arranged marriage, and there are several examples > of this in the archives. I hope he will clarify > this now, and elaborate/correct the reasons that > I suggested for this so that we are sure. > > If we use Sanjayji's definition of an arranged > marriage as one where the social circles of the > bride and groom are involved in bringing about > the marriage. So this is a broad category which > excludes all of Pisaca, Rakshasa, Asura and > Gandharva vivaha, but includes the other four > types. Of course, the lines are not solid and > marriages can be a mixture of different types - > in which case the level of social circle > involvement becomes subjective - but the most > important subject is then the native himself/herself, I think. > > Best wishes, > > Samir > > > At 17:54 04/08/2006, you wrote: > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > Namaskar. Nope. If you > > consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then > > 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd > > house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka > > to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. > > Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of > > Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). > > > >There are 8 kinds of marriages according to > >Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are > >pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of > >calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not > >only based on emotions but some other kinds of > >criteria also. There are several kinds of > >so-called arranged marriages and each have a > >karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of > >arranges and selected marriages and dealth with > >this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa > >Files section under Raths Papers). > > > >Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Sourav > > > >================================================================= > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > > > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > > > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > > > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > > > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > > > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > > > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > > > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > > > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > > > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > > > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > >=============================================================== > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an > > influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > >20th August 1983 > > > > > >3:12 AM > > > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > > > >SDET > > > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > > > >- > > > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > > > p://in.answers./> > > > > > >Answers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Sourav, Namaskar You are too quick to dismiss Samir’s remarks. Make sure you don’t loose knowledge in the process of affirming your own... This is the problem that the Sun has. What you say about the eight types of marriages is acceptable, but even incase of Brahma vivaha, the couple may have found each other, and then saught the blessings of their family. This doesn’t make it Gandharva vivaha unless they ignore the families injunction. Even Asura Vivaha can act as an arranged marriage if the money involved has been based on the parents injunction. The question is really: Who is choosing the partner? 1. If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely based on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. 2. If you let someone else do all the finding and choosing, then it is arranged marriage. And this is irrespective of whether there is talk of any of the eight types of marriages. Now, as Samir has accurately pointed out: if the eighth house is strongly associated with the upapada, then it can be an arranged marriage. i.e. UL lord in the eighth house, or eighth lord in the UL or some yoga between A8 and UL lords, etc. Otherwise its more likely to be a love marriage. This is important as it also influences the lagna of the spouse. Incase of a love marriage, then the partners lagna will usually be in trines/seventh to the upapada lagna. Incase of arranged marriage, then the partners Upapada lagna will be in trines/seventh to ones own upapada lagna. This is because they will both match the lagna of the person who made the arranged marriage happen. I hope this clarifies. And yes, Guruji has taught this. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com *** _____ [] On Behalf Of Sourav 05 August 2006 14:21 Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Samir, Namaskar. O.K. I will await Visti-ji's comments in this regard. I think what Sanjay-ji taught and what Manu has given as definitions are pretty solid demarcations. Each individual case varies. The categorizing of arranged/selected etc is broad and includes several motivations. Each case needs to be considered separately. That is why I try not to answer these kinds of questions for love or arranged marriages. People only think there can be two only. Best wishes, Sourav =============================================================== , Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > || hare räma kåñna || > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > Vistiji has taught several times on this list > about the involvement of the 8th house/lord in > arranged marriage, and there are several examples > of this in the archives. I hope he will clarify > this now, and elaborate/correct the reasons that > I suggested for this so that we are sure. > > If we use Sanjayji's definition of an arranged > marriage as one where the social circles of the > bride and groom are involved in bringing about > the marriage. So this is a broad category which > excludes all of Pisaca, Rakshasa, Asura and > Gandharva vivaha, but includes the other four > types. Of course, the lines are not solid and > marriages can be a mixture of different types - > in which case the level of social circle > involvement becomes subjective - but the most > important subject is then the native himself/herself, I think. > > Best wishes, > > Samir > > > At 17:54 04/08/2006, you wrote: > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > Namaskar. Nope. If you > > consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then > > 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd > > house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka > > to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. > > Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of > > Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). > > > >There are 8 kinds of marriages according to > >Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are > >pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of > >calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not > >only based on emotions but some other kinds of > >criteria also. There are several kinds of > >so-called arranged marriages and each have a > >karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of > >arranges and selected marriages and dealth with > >this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa > >Files section under Raths Papers). > > > >Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Sourav > > > >================================================================= > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > > > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > > > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > > > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > > > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > > > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > > > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > > > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > > > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > > > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > > > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > >=============================================================== > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an > > influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > >20th August 1983 > > > > > >3:12 AM > > > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > > > >SDET > > > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > > > >- > > > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > > > p://in.answers./> > > > > > >Answers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Visti-ji, Namaskar. Why are you acting angry again ? I am not dismissing anyone. This is called reasonable argument (going back and forth) and between students of such a holy subject it is fine, isn't it ? I dont like this kind of behaviour at all ! What is the point of 8th house getting involved, it still didn't understand. You said: " If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely based on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. " I dont agree with this !! A person himself may marry not due to love but due to other considerations like money, visa, responsibility, taking care of a woman who doesn't have anyone in life and is miserable. Similarly for woman marrying a man ? How is that love marriage ?? There can be one-side love and other side something else also, possible ? Please discuss within realms of reasoning. Not pointing at someones Sun. Pointing never helps. I have received enough knowledge from you and I am grateful. But you continue this kind of behaviour which is not condusive to knowledge at all. It is downright hurtful. Best wishes, Sourav ================================================================= , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > You are too quick to dismiss Samir's remarks. Make sure you don't loose > knowledge in the process of affirming your own... This is the problem that > the Sun has. > > What you say about the eight types of marriages is acceptable, but even > incase of Brahma vivaha, the couple may have found each other, and then > saught the blessings of their family. This doesn't make it Gandharva vivaha > unless they ignore the families injunction. Even Asura Vivaha can act as an > arranged marriage if the money involved has been based on the parents > injunction. > > The question is really: Who is choosing the partner? > > 1. If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely based > on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. > 2. If you let someone else do all the finding and choosing, then it is > arranged marriage. > > And this is irrespective of whether there is talk of any of the eight types > of marriages. > > Now, as Samir has accurately pointed out: if the eighth house is strongly > associated with the upapada, then it can be an arranged marriage. i.e. UL > lord in the eighth house, or eighth lord in the UL or some yoga between A8 > and UL lords, etc. > > Otherwise its more likely to be a love marriage. > > This is important as it also influences the lagna of the spouse. Incase of a > love marriage, then the partners lagna will usually be in trines/seventh to > the upapada lagna. Incase of arranged marriage, then the partners Upapada > lagna will be in trines/seventh to ones own upapada lagna. This is because > they will both match the lagna of the person who made the arranged marriage > happen. > > I hope this clarifies. And yes, Guruji has taught this. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Sourav > 05 August 2006 14:21 > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage > > > > || Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Samir, > > Namaskar. O.K. I will await Visti-ji's comments in > this regard. I think what Sanjay-ji taught and what Manu has given as > definitions are pretty solid demarcations. Each individual case varies. The > categorizing of arranged/selected etc is broad and includes several > motivations. Each case needs to be considered separately. That is why I try > not to answer these kinds of questions for love or arranged marriages. > People only think there can be two only. > > Best wishes, > > Sourav > > =============================================================== > , Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > Vistiji has taught several times on this list > > about the involvement of the 8th house/lord in > > arranged marriage, and there are several examples > > of this in the archives. I hope he will clarify > > this now, and elaborate/correct the reasons that > > I suggested for this so that we are sure. > > > > If we use Sanjayji's definition of an arranged > > marriage as one where the social circles of the > > bride and groom are involved in bringing about > > the marriage. So this is a broad category which > > excludes all of Pisaca, Rakshasa, Asura and > > Gandharva vivaha, but includes the other four > > types. Of course, the lines are not solid and > > marriages can be a mixture of different types - > > in which case the level of social circle > > involvement becomes subjective - but the most > > important subject is then the native himself/herself, I think. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Samir > > > > > > At 17:54 04/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > Namaskar. Nope. If you > > > consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then > > > 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd > > > house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka > > > to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. > > > Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of > > > Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). > > > > > >There are 8 kinds of marriages according to > > >Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are > > >pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of > > >calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not > > >only based on emotions but some other kinds of > > >criteria also. There are several kinds of > > >so-called arranged marriages and each have a > > >karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of > > >arranges and selected marriages and dealth with > > >this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa > > >Files section under Raths Papers). > > > > > >Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > >================================================================= > > > > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > > > > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > > > > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > > > > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > > > > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > > > > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > > > > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > > > > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > > > > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > > > > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > > > > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > > > >=============================================================== > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an > > > influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > >20th August 1983 > > > > > > >3:12 AM > > > > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > > > > >SDET > > > > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > > > > >- > > > > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > > > > p://in.answers./> > > > > > > >Answers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Sourav, Namaskar I’m sorry if i seemed angry. I wasn’t, just pointing out your clear dismissal of Samirs statement until you read that i had taught him this. Don’t worry, i do this all the time to myself too. The eighth house shows the karmic debts and is also the bhava of the pitris – refer Parasara. When you let the Pitris (elders) or family members decide the person whom you will marry, then it is called an arranged marriage. You said: " I dont agree with this !! A person himself may marry not due to love but due to other considerations like money, visa, responsibility, taking care of a woman who doesn't have anyone in life and is miserable. Right, its wrong terminology to call it love-marriage, but that is popular jyotish-terminology for those people who do not have an arranged marriage? I was referring to the one who made the decission to marry, for whichever reasons it may be. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com *** _____ [] On Behalf Of Sourav 05 August 2006 16:49 Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Visti-ji, Namaskar. Why are you acting angry again ? I am not dismissing anyone. This is called reasonable argument (going back and forth) and between students of such a holy subject it is fine, isn't it ? I dont like this kind of behaviour at all ! What is the point of 8th house getting involved, it still didn't understand.. You said: " If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely based on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. " I dont agree with this !! A person himself may marry not due to love but due to other considerations like money, visa, responsibility, taking care of a woman who doesn't have anyone in life and is miserable. Similarly for woman marrying a man ? How is that love marriage ?? There can be one-side love and other side something else also, possible ? Please discuss within realms of reasoning. Not pointing at someones Sun. Pointing never helps. I have received enough knowledge from you and I am grateful. But you continue this kind of behaviour which is not condusive to knowledge at all. It is downright hurtful. Best wishes, Sourav ================================================================= , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > You are too quick to dismiss Samir's remarks. Make sure you don't loose > knowledge in the process of affirming your own... This is the problem that > the Sun has. > > What you say about the eight types of marriages is acceptable, but even > incase of Brahma vivaha, the couple may have found each other, and then > saught the blessings of their family. This doesn't make it Gandharva vivaha > unless they ignore the families injunction. Even Asura Vivaha can act as an > arranged marriage if the money involved has been based on the parents > injunction. > > The question is really: Who is choosing the partner? > > 1. If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely based > on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. > 2. If you let someone else do all the finding and choosing, then it is > arranged marriage. > > And this is irrespective of whether there is talk of any of the eight types > of marriages. > > Now, as Samir has accurately pointed out: if the eighth house is strongly > associated with the upapada, then it can be an arranged marriage. i.e. UL > lord in the eighth house, or eighth lord in the UL or some yoga between A8 > and UL lords, etc. > > Otherwise its more likely to be a love marriage. > > This is important as it also influences the lagna of the spouse. Incase of a > love marriage, then the partners lagna will usually be in trines/seventh to > the upapada lagna. Incase of arranged marriage, then the partners Upapada > lagna will be in trines/seventh to ones own upapada lagna. This is because > they will both match the lagna of the person who made the arranged marriage > happen. > > I hope this clarifies. And yes, Guruji has taught this. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Sourav > 05 August 2006 14:21 > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage > > > > || Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Samir, > > Namaskar. O.K. I will await Visti-ji's comments in > this regard. I think what Sanjay-ji taught and what Manu has given as > definitions are pretty solid demarcations. Each individual case varies. The > categorizing of arranged/selected etc is broad and includes several > motivations. Each case needs to be considered separately. That is why I try > not to answer these kinds of questions for love or arranged marriages. > People only think there can be two only. > > Best wishes, > > Sourav > > =============================================================== > , Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > Vistiji has taught several times on this list > > about the involvement of the 8th house/lord in > > arranged marriage, and there are several examples > > of this in the archives. I hope he will clarify > > this now, and elaborate/correct the reasons that > > I suggested for this so that we are sure. > > > > If we use Sanjayji's definition of an arranged > > marriage as one where the social circles of the > > bride and groom are involved in bringing about > > the marriage. So this is a broad category which > > excludes all of Pisaca, Rakshasa, Asura and > > Gandharva vivaha, but includes the other four > > types. Of course, the lines are not solid and > > marriages can be a mixture of different types - > > in which case the level of social circle > > involvement becomes subjective - but the most > > important subject is then the native himself/herself, I think. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Samir > > > > > > At 17:54 04/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > Namaskar. Nope. If you > > > consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then > > > 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd > > > house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka > > > to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. > > > Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of > > > Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). > > > > > >There are 8 kinds of marriages according to > > >Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are > > >pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of > > >calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not > > >only based on emotions but some other kinds of > > >criteria also. There are several kinds of > > >so-called arranged marriages and each have a > > >karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of > > >arranges and selected marriages and dealth with > > >this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa > > >Files section under Raths Papers). > > > > > >Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > >================================================================= > > > > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > > > > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > > > > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > > > > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > > > > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > > > > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > > > > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > > > > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > > > > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > > > > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > > > > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > > > >=============================================================== > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an > > > influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > >20th August 1983 > > > > > > >3:12 AM > > > > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > > > > >SDET > > > > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > > > > >- > > > > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > > > > p://in.answers./> > > > > > > >Answers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Visti-ji, Namaskar. Okay, but I dont like this kind of conversation. I am not dismissing the rule, if it is a rule. I am dismissing the logic behind that rule which Samir stated and you are trying to re-inforce ! I dont consider you as authority but I admire your knowledge and rise in Jyotish in short period of time. Samir and I had some good discussions in the past and I know he is a keen student. I asked him starting with " Why 8th lord ? " He said something in reply but the logic didnt look adequate to me. Moreover, the clarity of arranged marriage definition is also in doubt. So I pointed him the paper by Sanjay-ji to base his logic on that structure. Right, its wrong terminology to call it love-marriage, but that is popular > jyotish-terminology for those people who do not have an arranged marriage? I > was referring to the one who made the decission to marry, for whichever > reasons it may be. Loose terminology breeds loose logic. We are all aware of that. Moreover, I dont think people in my country (where words like arranged marriage is so popular) call any self-deciding marriage as love-marriage. So next time when a client innocently ask the question "would it be love or arranged" we need to see the context/culture clearly and tell him what we are thinking. People are not mostly not aware that there are plenty of other reasons to bring about a sambandha when they ask such questions. Hope you get these cultural differences clear. Just because you are backing up Samir's statements doesnt make me back out on logic ! A person can marry on his own out of love or to further progeny or both and rina is covered. According to your definition this wont be arranged marriage because he is deciding on his own ? Also, if 8th lord, 8th house or A8 is not involved, the marraige does not play any role in redeeming the role of the Pitris ? 12th-th is 5th from the 8th and A12 or UL itself represents the 'future' of the rina. In India, for example, deciding marriage on one's own and for reasons of 'having a family' & without love as reason, is considered as arranged marriage. Elders or friends do not need to make it 'arranged'. People now a days often live away from family and close friends due to work. Moreover, in the age of nuclear families, elders are not around to arrange marriages. So one can also seek councellors or matrimonial sites to 'select' a partner. In my understanding, love marriage comes out of jala tatva only (or predominantly) where there is an mutual emotional tie already. Who brings about marriage can be seen from the 7th house from Shukra. Hope I am clear on what I had meant to say all along. And hope its not taken as challenging. Best wishes, Sourav ================================================================= , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > I'm sorry if i seemed angry. I wasn't, just pointing out your clear > dismissal of Samirs statement until you read that i had taught him this. > Don't worry, i do this all the time to myself too. > > The eighth house shows the karmic debts and is also the bhava of the pitris > – refer Parasara. When you let the Pitris (elders) or family members decide > the person whom you will marry, then it is called an arranged marriage. > > You said: > > " I dont agree with this !! A person himself may marry not due to love but > due to other considerations like money, visa, responsibility, taking care of > a woman who doesn't have anyone in life and is miserable. > > Right, its wrong terminology to call it love-marriage, but that is popular > jyotish-terminology for those people who do not have an arranged marriage? I > was referring to the one who made the decission to marry, for whichever > reasons it may be. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Sourav > 05 August 2006 16:49 > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage > > > > || Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Visti-ji, > > Namaskar. Why are you acting angry again ? I am not > dismissing anyone. This is called reasonable argument (going back and forth) > and between students of such a holy subject it is fine, isn't it ? I dont > like this kind of behaviour at all ! > > What is the point of 8th house getting involved, it still didn't understand. > You said: " If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely > based on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. " I dont > agree with this !! A person himself may marry not due to love but due to > other considerations like money, visa, responsibility, taking care of a > woman who doesn't have anyone in life and is miserable. Similarly for woman > marrying a man ? How is that love marriage ?? There can be one-side love > and other side something else also, possible ? > > Please discuss within realms of reasoning. Not pointing at someones Sun. > Pointing never helps. I have received enough knowledge from you and I am > grateful. But you continue this kind of behaviour which is not condusive to > knowledge at all. It is downright hurtful. > > Best wishes, > > Sourav > > ================================================================= > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" visti@ wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > You are too quick to dismiss Samir's remarks. Make sure you don't loose > > knowledge in the process of affirming your own... This is the problem that > > the Sun has. > > > > What you say about the eight types of marriages is acceptable, but even > > incase of Brahma vivaha, the couple may have found each other, and then > > saught the blessings of their family. This doesn't make it Gandharva > vivaha > > unless they ignore the families injunction. Even Asura Vivaha can act as > an > > arranged marriage if the money involved has been based on the parents > > injunction. > > > > The question is really: Who is choosing the partner? > > > > 1. If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely based > > on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. > > 2. If you let someone else do all the finding and choosing, then it is > > arranged marriage. > > > > And this is irrespective of whether there is talk of any of the eight > types > > of marriages. > > > > Now, as Samir has accurately pointed out: if the eighth house is strongly > > associated with the upapada, then it can be an arranged marriage. i.e. UL > > lord in the eighth house, or eighth lord in the UL or some yoga between A8 > > and UL lords, etc. > > > > Otherwise its more likely to be a love marriage. > > > > This is important as it also influences the lagna of the spouse. Incase of > a > > love marriage, then the partners lagna will usually be in trines/seventh > to > > the upapada lagna. Incase of arranged marriage, then the partners Upapada > > lagna will be in trines/seventh to ones own upapada lagna. This is because > > they will both match the lagna of the person who made the arranged > marriage > > happen. > > > > I hope this clarifies. And yes, Guruji has taught this. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > *** > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com > > > > *** > > > > _____ > > > > [] > On > > Behalf Of Sourav > > 05 August 2006 14:21 > > > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > Dear Samir, > > > > Namaskar. O.K. I will await Visti-ji's comments in > > this regard. I think what Sanjay-ji taught and what Manu has given as > > definitions are pretty solid demarcations. Each individual case varies. > The > > categorizing of arranged/selected etc is broad and includes several > > motivations. Each case needs to be considered separately. That is why I > try > > not to answer these kinds of questions for love or arranged marriages. > > People only think there can be two only. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Sourav > > > > =============================================================== > > , Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > Vistiji has taught several times on this list > > > about the involvement of the 8th house/lord in > > > arranged marriage, and there are several examples > > > of this in the archives. I hope he will clarify > > > this now, and elaborate/correct the reasons that > > > I suggested for this so that we are sure. > > > > > > If we use Sanjayji's definition of an arranged > > > marriage as one where the social circles of the > > > bride and groom are involved in bringing about > > > the marriage. So this is a broad category which > > > excludes all of Pisaca, Rakshasa, Asura and > > > Gandharva vivaha, but includes the other four > > > types. Of course, the lines are not solid and > > > marriages can be a mixture of different types - > > > in which case the level of social circle > > > involvement becomes subjective - but the most > > > important subject is then the native himself/herself, I think. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > At 17:54 04/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Nope. If you > > > > consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then > > > > 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd > > > > house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka > > > > to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. > > > > Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of > > > > Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). > > > > > > > >There are 8 kinds of marriages according to > > > >Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are > > > >pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of > > > >calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not > > > >only based on emotions but some other kinds of > > > >criteria also. There are several kinds of > > > >so-called arranged marriages and each have a > > > >karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of > > > >arranges and selected marriages and dealth with > > > >this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa > > > >Files section under Raths Papers). > > > > > > > >Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > >================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > > > > > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > > > > > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > > > > > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > > > > > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > > > > > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > > > > > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > > > > > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > > > > > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > > > > > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > > > > > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > >=============================================================== > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > > > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > > > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an > > > > influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > > > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > > > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > > > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > > > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > > > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > > > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > > > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > > > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > >20th August 1983 > > > > > > > >3:12 AM > > > > > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > > > > > >SDET > > > > > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > > > > > >- > > > > > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > > > > > p://in.answers./> > > > > > > > >Answers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Sourav, Namaskar You wrote: Also, if 8th lord, 8th house or A8 is not involved, the marraige does not play any role in redeeming the role of the Pitris ? 12th-th is 5th from the 8th and A12 or UL itself represents the 'future' of the rina. All Vivaha plays a role in redeeming the debt to the pitris. To which extent this happens is dependant on the offspring which comes from the marriage. So far we are trying to understand ‘who is choosing’ the marriage, and thus we are talking about the lagna or dhi-shakti involved in choosing the partner. You wrote: In India, for example, deciding marriage on one's own and for reasons of 'having a family' & without love as reason, is considered as arranged marriage. Elders or friends do not need to make it 'arranged'. People now a days often live away from family and close friends due to work. Moreover, in the age of nuclear families, elders are not around to arrange marriages. So one can also seek councellors or matrimonial sites to 'select' a partner. Right, so even the arranged marriages are more like love-marriages in some cases. This we also have to identify in the chart, but we need to know what exactly happens rather than what people call it. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com *** _____ [] On Behalf Of Sourav 05 August 2006 22:18 Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage || Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Visti-ji, Namaskar. Okay, but I dont like this kind of conversation. I am not dismissing the rule, if it is a rule. I am dismissing the logic behind that rule which Samir stated and you are trying to re-inforce ! I dont consider you as authority but I admire your knowledge and rise in Jyotish in short period of time. Samir and I had some good discussions in the past and I know he is a keen student. I asked him starting with " Why 8th lord ? " He said something in reply but the logic didnt look adequate to me. Moreover, the clarity of arranged marriage definition is also in doubt. So I pointed him the paper by Sanjay-ji to base his logic on that structure. Right, its wrong terminology to call it love-marriage, but that is popular > jyotish-terminology for those people who do not have an arranged marriage? I > was referring to the one who made the decission to marry, for whichever > reasons it may be. Loose terminology breeds loose logic. We are all aware of that. Moreover, I dont think people in my country (where words like arranged marriage is so popular) call any self-deciding marriage as love-marriage. So next time when a client innocently ask the question "would it be love or arranged" we need to see the context/culture clearly and tell him what we are thinking. People are not mostly not aware that there are plenty of other reasons to bring about a sambandha when they ask such questions. Hope you get these cultural differences clear. Just because you are backing up Samir's statements doesnt make me back out on logic ! A person can marry on his own out of love or to further progeny or both and rina is covered. According to your definition this wont be arranged marriage because he is deciding on his own ? Also, if 8th lord, 8th house or A8 is not involved, the marraige does not play any role in redeeming the role of the Pitris ? 12th-th is 5th from the 8th and A12 or UL itself represents the 'future' of the rina. In India, for example, deciding marriage on one's own and for reasons of 'having a family' & without love as reason, is considered as arranged marriage. Elders or friends do not need to make it 'arranged'. People now a days often live away from family and close friends due to work. Moreover, in the age of nuclear families, elders are not around to arrange marriages. So one can also seek councellors or matrimonial sites to 'select' a partner. In my understanding, love marriage comes out of jala tatva only (or predominantly) where there is an mutual emotional tie already. Who brings about marriage can be seen from the 7th house from Shukra. Hope I am clear on what I had meant to say all along. And hope its not taken as challenging. Best wishes, Sourav ================================================================= , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > I'm sorry if i seemed angry. I wasn't, just pointing out your clear > dismissal of Samirs statement until you read that i had taught him this. > Don't worry, i do this all the time to myself too. > > The eighth house shows the karmic debts and is also the bhava of the pitris > – refer Parasara. When you let the Pitris (elders) or family members decide > the person whom you will marry, then it is called an arranged marriage. > > You said: > > " I dont agree with this !! A person himself may marry not due to love but > due to other considerations like money, visa, responsibility, taking care of > a woman who doesn't have anyone in life and is miserable. > > Right, its wrong terminology to call it love-marriage, but that is popular > jyotish-terminology for those people who do not have an arranged marriage? I > was referring to the one who made the decission to marry, for whichever > reasons it may be. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Sourav > 05 August 2006 16:49 > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage > > > > || Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Visti-ji, > > Namaskar. Why are you acting angry again ? I am not > dismissing anyone. This is called reasonable argument (going back and forth) > and between students of such a holy subject it is fine, isn't it ? I dont > like this kind of behaviour at all ! > > What is the point of 8th house getting involved, it still didn't understand. > You said: " If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely > based on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. " I dont > agree with this !! A person himself may marry not due to love but due to > other considerations like money, visa, responsibility, taking care of a > woman who doesn't have anyone in life and is miserable. Similarly for woman > marrying a man ? How is that love marriage ?? There can be one-side love > and other side something else also, possible ? > > Please discuss within realms of reasoning. Not pointing at someones Sun. > Pointing never helps. I have received enough knowledge from you and I am > grateful. But you continue this kind of behaviour which is not condusive to > knowledge at all. It is downright hurtful. > > Best wishes, > > Sourav > > ================================================================= > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" visti@ wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > You are too quick to dismiss Samir's remarks. Make sure you don't loose > > knowledge in the process of affirming your own... This is the problem that > > the Sun has. > > > > What you say about the eight types of marriages is acceptable, but even > > incase of Brahma vivaha, the couple may have found each other, and then > > saught the blessings of their family. This doesn't make it Gandharva > vivaha > > unless they ignore the families injunction. Even Asura Vivaha can act as > an > > arranged marriage if the money involved has been based on the parents > > injunction. > > > > The question is really: Who is choosing the partner? > > > > 1. If you find and choose your partner and the marriage is solely based > > on your decission, then it is considered as a love marriage. > > 2. If you let someone else do all the finding and choosing, then it is > > arranged marriage. > > > > And this is irrespective of whether there is talk of any of the eight > types > > of marriages. > > > > Now, as Samir has accurately pointed out: if the eighth house is strongly > > associated with the upapada, then it can be an arranged marriage. i.e. UL > > lord in the eighth house, or eighth lord in the UL or some yoga between A8 > > and UL lords, etc. > > > > Otherwise its more likely to be a love marriage. > > > > This is important as it also influences the lagna of the spouse. Incase of > a > > love marriage, then the partners lagna will usually be in trines/seventh > to > > the upapada lagna. Incase of arranged marriage, then the partners Upapada > > lagna will be in trines/seventh to ones own upapada lagna. This is because > > they will both match the lagna of the person who made the arranged > marriage > > happen. > > > > I hope this clarifies. And yes, Guruji has taught this. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > *** > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com > > > > *** > > > > _____ > > > > [] > On > > Behalf Of Sourav > > 05 August 2006 14:21 > > > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > Dear Samir, > > > > Namaskar. O.K. I will await Visti-ji's comments in > > this regard. I think what Sanjay-ji taught and what Manu has given as > > definitions are pretty solid demarcations. Each individual case varies. > The > > categorizing of arranged/selected etc is broad and includes several > > motivations. Each case needs to be considered separately. That is why I > try > > not to answer these kinds of questions for love or arranged marriages. > > People only think there can be two only. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Sourav > > > > =============================================================== > > , Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > Vistiji has taught several times on this list > > > about the involvement of the 8th house/lord in > > > arranged marriage, and there are several examples > > > of this in the archives. I hope he will clarify > > > this now, and elaborate/correct the reasons that > > > I suggested for this so that we are sure. > > > > > > If we use Sanjayji's definition of an arranged > > > marriage as one where the social circles of the > > > bride and groom are involved in bringing about > > > the marriage. So this is a broad category which > > > excludes all of Pisaca, Rakshasa, Asura and > > > Gandharva vivaha, but includes the other four > > > types. Of course, the lines are not solid and > > > marriages can be a mixture of different types - > > > in which case the level of social circle > > > involvement becomes subjective - but the most > > > important subject is then the native himself/herself, I think. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > At 17:54 04/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Nope. If you > > > > consider Marriage to be an act of dharma then > > > > 9th from Lagna and 9th from 7th (i.e. 3rd > > > > house) becomes important. 8th house is maraka > > > > to the 7th, 6th from 3rd and 12-th from 9th. > > > > Right ? Marriage is already acknowledgement of > > > > Pitri Rina (12-th house from Lagna or 5th from 8th house). > > > > > > > >There are 8 kinds of marriages according to > > > >Manu: Brahma, Daiva, Arsa etc. Some of them are > > > >pro-dharma and some are not so. The sense of > > > >calling a marriage as arranged is that it is not > > > >only based on emotions but some other kinds of > > > >criteria also. There are several kinds of > > > >so-called arranged marriages and each have a > > > >karaka. Sanjay-ji has even made distinction of > > > >arranges and selected marriages and dealth with > > > >this topic in details in his papers (see Sohamsa > > > >Files section under Raths Papers). > > > > > > > >Conjunction of A8/8th lord will cause problems in marriage. > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > >================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > Firstly, I should have included the A8 as well as > > > > > 8th house/lord. As to why - the 8th house > > > > > represents heritage/debt to our elders, and the > > > > > influence of this house (and A8) on the UL causes > > > > > us to acknowledge this debt by allowing the > > > > > family to choose a spouse (i.e., an arranged > > > > > marriage). Similarly, the 7th house, A7 and > > > > > Venus represent our desires (and their objects) > > > > > and their influence on the UL causes us to allow > > > > > our desires to play a role in choosing that particular spouse. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > PS Would you mind sending me your birth details > > > > > privately? I had, but seem to have lost them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 17:14 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >|| Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Why 8th lord ? > > > > > > > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > >Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > >=============================================================== > > > > > >, Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For love marriage, look for a link between the > > > > > > > UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged > > > > > > > marriages, the 8th house needs to have an > > > > influence on the UL/7th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, > > > > > > > and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is > > > > > > > also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect > > > > > > > on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this > > > > > > > is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I > > > > > > > think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has > > > > > > > predicted marriage for you within the next year - > > > > > > > so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at > > > > > > > present? This is just for learning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Dear Sir , > > > > > > > > How do we figure out whether > > > > > > > > a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If > > > > > > > > u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > >20th August 1983 > > > > > > > >3:12 AM > > > > > > > >Chandigarh , India > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks and Ragards > > > > > > > >Ashish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ashish Saxena > > > > > > > >SDET > > > > > > > >Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's a new way to find what you're looking for > > > > > > > >- > > > > > > > ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*htt > > > > > > p://in.answers./> > > > > > > > >Answers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 || hare räma kåñna || Dear Amit, Namaskar I also received you private email - but I am posting to the list so that we can be guided by the Gurus and other members.. Your UL is in Virgo with Rahu and 8th lord Moon. Meanwhile, UL and 7th lord Mercury is with Mars in the 5th house - conditions for love marriage. Rahu lords the A7. But at the same time, Mars lords the A8 and is joined the UL lord Mercury. There is graha drsti of Saturn on the UL. So I can see why people have had differing opinions. I think it's going to be arranged (because of the weakness of Mars/Mercury - see below). But lets see if Vistiji or other members read it differently - as you will have seen from recent posts it depends on many factors! But there is some obstruction to marriage itself, and remedies will be required: 7th from the UL has Ketu and Venus. Venus is Atmakaraka, and this suggests that you yourself could be finding reasons not to marry - perhaps because of the circumstances at home (4th house). Further, Venus is the 6th lord (celibacy) in a Kendra in parivartana with Jupiter. Taking the reverse, an afflicted Moon is in the 7th from Venus, which will cause problems in bringing the spouse. The afflicted Moon is just one of the three curses in the chart, of which I think the Brahmin Shaapa is the main one. Venus is in Gandanta and involved in a peculiar graha yuddha across Rasis with Ketu and Mars. All these planets are in Gandanta and weak because of it. I don't know how to interpret this properly - hopefully others will contribute. I've touched upon quite a few things - though which (if any one in particular is) is the main one that needs to be remedied, I'm not sure. That's my short and rather sparse analysis - I'm hoping that Vistiji and others will be able to add and suggest remedies, so that we can learn from it. You have an interesting (and complicated!) chart, what with so many vargottama grahas and many of them being on the cusp. Not to mention several chara karaka replacements. Best wishes, Samir At 17:12 03/08/2006, you wrote: >Dear Sameer > >This case is I believe just similar to mine. >There were many views. Some say Love Marriage >and some say in negative (to Love marriage). >Discussions are welcome on this...(though I am >not an astrologer, I may be able to coordinate!!!) > >Birth Details are as under: > >Date Of Birth 28/05/1977 >Time Of Birth 21:30:0 >Time Zone -5.5 >Latitude 026.36.N >Longitude 085.30.E > >If you could analyse these data for marriage. > >Regards / AP > > >Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for >- ><http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers./> >Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Om guruve Namah! Dear Visti jee, In one of your previous emails, you explained about definition of love marriage and arranged marriage, to understand this concept better in terms of UL, A7, Venus, 7th and 5th house and many more. Would'nt it be appropriate to start with UL alone. If UL in 8th house - a straight rule - The person man or women will get married without having any say in decision making, that means the marriage will be arranged and finalised by some relative, so for this person it would be an out and out arranged marriage, but at the same time the spouse might or might not have UL in 8th house, so even though the marriage will be arranged by the relatives for the spouse, the spouse will have an option to say yes or no for a particular person if UL is not in 8, so at first glance the marriage would appear like a arranged marriage for both, but at a deeper level, it could be a love at first sight marriage for the person with UL placed somewhere else other then 8th house. Now to this situation if we add, A7, Venus, other planet influence, planet dristi, planet presence, exalted, debilitated. and many more such various combinations, all these will effect the marriage for better or worse, but are not the root cause for marriage with or without a share in decision making, it would be UL in 8th house alone responsible for it, and definetly the options for a person will increase or decrease with UL placed in other houses. As sourav jee was explaining about various types of marriages, it would be very appropriate to call marriage with those terms like gandharva etc depending on the culture and country, instead of just love or arranged marriage. One example. A boy is in love with a girl and the girl is not aware of it or is not interested etc, The boy approaches his parents, in turn the parents approach the girls parents. girls father takes the decision with out even asking the girl. The boy gets married to the girl he loved so for him it is love marriage, and this option would be possible with A7, venus etc placed in appropriate houses.and definetly in his chart UL would be in other than 8th house, but in case of the girl it should be in 8th house only, and for her it would be a definite arranged marriage. So each layer of information if added would add to the complexity of the situation and will also make it very difficult to explain in terms like love or arranged marriage. The bottom line is UL depending on its position would give or deny a person a say in his or her own marriage. Please analyse this statement with UL alone in the chart. Please let me know if it makes any sense. Visti jee is your book available in US or canada. Thanks Om Namah Shivai! SPI Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote: ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Ramesh, Namaskar The Upapada shows Vivaha whilst the Darapada shows Sambandha. Now does all Vivaha require a marital contract? No, Gandharva Vivaha does not require it, yet is considered a Vivaha. The strength of the Upapada usually indicates whether marital contract is written or not. As for the Vivahas that don’t become marriages, there must be a considerable weakness, but UL placed in a dusthana can become a marriage. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com *** [] On Behalf Of Ramesh F. Gangaramani 06 August 2006 18:34 RE: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage- 3 couples Quiz || Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat || Dear Visti, Namaskar 1. I am finding it difficult to draw a line between A7 (relationships) and UL (marriage). In the first case you mentioned that marriage will not happen' so what kind of relationship would it be? Will that also be visible while checking A7? 2. Can you please summarize the 'ULs that will not fructify into marriage's? UL placed in dusthanas, ULs with debilitated lords, ULs in 6th from Venus, ULs conjoined with weak or debilitated planets? Best Wishes, Ramesh [] On Behalf Of Visti Larsen Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:59 AM RE: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage- 3 couples Quiz ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Suchitra, Namaskar This is a great way of testing the principles. My analysis is bellow: North Indian Couple: In the chart of the bride, the first upapada is in marana karaka sthana from Venus, hence this marriage would not happen, and hence the next one is indicated by Pisces. Pisces has an exalted Venus who is also Lagnesh, and this is in trines to the lagna of the groom (scorpio). Hence this looks like an emotional tie which later was accepted by the parents giving a Daiva Vivaha (Mars lording seventh house in navamsa). I have deliberately skipped the chart of the groom, as he seems to have had a checkered past in the matter of relationships, especially the first major relationship was a source of great pain to him, due to the Atmakaraka Saturn joining this Upapada. South Indian Couple: In the chart of the bride, the first upapada is joined eighth lord Mercury and the Naisargika Pitri-karaka; Saturn. Hence, this marriage looks arranged on first glance. I do agree with Samir that there is need for remedial measures for this marriage. The grooms chart again poses to be very interesting. The Upapada is in the fourth house, but its lord Mars (mars is stronger) is joined a pravrajya yoga in the ninth house, indicating a desire to reject marriage and move on a more spiritual path. This would have delayed his marriage. However, this Mars is joined Saturn (naisargika pitrikaraka) and aspected by a retrograde-eighth lord Jupiter by graha dristi, which can bring an arranged marriage in a dasa/antara of Jupiter. It would be easy to accept this as a love-marriage, due to their upapadas matching each others lagnas, but i felt the strong influence of Saturn and Eighth lord on the upapadas would change that. Saturn and Mercury influence both Upapadas confirming their similarity. I believe this was a purely arranged marriage. East Indian Couple: In this chart the bride seems to have had one minor relationship before marriage due to weak planets joined the Upapada, and the lords both being in dusthanas (ketu as an exception could promote an arranged marriage). The next upapada is in Gemini which is the same upapada as the grooms indicating an arranged marriage. The lord Mercury indicates some advertizing is involved. Thankyou for giving us an oportunity to test the principles, please do post the final answer on these chart. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com *** [] On Behalf Of suchitra_kamath 05 August 2006 23:02 Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Luv Vs Arrange Marriage- 3 couples Quiz Namaskar Visti/Sourav/Sameer and others I am presenting data of 3 couples. I know what kind of marriages they had.Let us try to analyze from chart why they had what they had. of the three couples one had pure arranged marriage( groom saw her 3 days before- decided on marriage ) one of the couple had purely emotional tie- they told their elders and got it arranged. the third couple sought each other themselves through means of advetisement etc( no emotional tie before marriage) and then told their elders and got married I hope this will be interesting and also help students. Thanks Suchitra North Indian couple Bride : May 4, 1974 Agra India Time:7.15 AM(morning) Groom: September 8, 1974 Lucknow India, 11.20 AM(morning) South Indian Couple Bride: August 14,1978, Bangalore India 12.55 Pm(afternoon) Groom: April 6, 1970 Manipal India 3.45 PM(afternoon) East Indian Couple Bride : 18 October 1974, Bombay India 7.59 Am(morning) Groom : 9 December 1969 Ranchi India 12.29 PM(afternoon) , ashish saxena <ashish0021 wrote: > > Dear Samir namaskar, > Thanks for your input. Well Visti ji said that I would meet my partner in about an year from now, I dont think it means marriage , also I m not into a relationship rite now, could u throw some light on timing of marriage > > thanks and regards > ashish > > Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > || hare räma kåñna || > > Dear Ashish, Namaskar > > For love marriage, look for a link between the UL/A7/Venus and 5th/7th houses. For arranged marriages, the 8th house needs to have an influence on the UL/7th house. > > In your case, the 5th lord Venus is in the UL, and the 5th house also has the A7. The A7 is also aspecting the UL. There is also the aspect on the UL of the 8th lord, but I think that this is a lesser influence - so a love marriage is, I think, likely. Now, I believe Vistiji has predicted marriage for you within the next year - so may I ask whether you are in a relationship at present? This is just for learning. > > Best wishes, > > Samir > > > > > At 13:29 03/08/2006, you wrote: > Dear Sir , > How do we figure out whether a person will haev love or arrange marriage. If u could answer this question in my horoscpoe. > > Ashish > 20th August 1983 > 3:12 AM > Chandigarh , India > > Thanks and Ragards > Ashish > > > Ashish Saxena > SDET > Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers > > > > > Ashish Saxena > SDET > Microsoft India R&D Centre > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers > All new Mail Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soniar Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 Dear Visti ji, accept my Namaskars! I am regular visitor of this forum. Have been reading thru' this particular thread, where you have discussed many imp facts abt marriage, be it "love" or "arranged". I give my birth details below: DOB: 19.10.1978 Time: 12:27pm Place: Calcutta (now, Kolkata), India. Can you pls predict my marriage, and what kind will it be? I am an educated lady, presently working in a small company, but a part of a much reputed group. I am the only issue of my elderly parents, and thus they are much worried. Can you pls guide me? Thanks & Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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