SAV Question (Jhora - Technical Question)

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramesh,

 

> Do you plan to make any corrections in ashakavarga point calculations? There

> was a discussion sometime back about totaling error.

 

There is no totalling error.

 

Are you talking about the point someone made a while ago about JHora not adding ashtakavargas properly to come up with SAV? If I remember right, the person said something like JHora's SAV not being "sarva ashtakavarga" but being "sarva saptakavarga", as only 7 charts are totalled.

 

That is merely that person's theory. It is not a well-accepted view. All authors have taught adding the seven bhinna ashtakavargas (BAVs) to come up with SAV. Lagna's BAV is not included in SAV.

 

The point that this makes it "sarva saptakavarga" is silly. We are still adding "ashtakavargas" only. Whether "sarva" (literally, all) means seven planets or eight points including lagna is debatable. Instead of adding eight "ashtakavargas", we are adding seven "ashtakavargas". They are still ashtakavargas and not saptakavargas. Each chart considers auspicious places for the seven planets w.r.t. the eight references.

 

For research, I will add the option of including lagna's BAV also in SAV. However, I will caution people that this pushes the scores artificially high. The rules of >30 scores being excellent and 25-30 being neutral etc will be offset by this. For example, SAV of my rasi chart has 5 out of 12 rasis with scores of 30 or higher. They are considered strong houses. If I add lagna's BAV also, 9 out of 12 rasis have scores of 30 or higher.

 

In fact, many people will have too many houses with scores of 30 or higher. After all, the total of all rasis in SAV increases from 337 to 386, when you add lagna's BAV! The average score increases from 337/12=28.1 to 386/12=32.2. Thus, >30 scores becomes commonplace. The directive from classics that 25-30 is average and >30 is good is no longer relevant.

 

I strongly advise against this change. Adding the ashtakavargas of 7 planets to come up with SAV is the correct approach.

 

If there was some other discussion on "totaling error" that I missed, please forward the discussion to me. I missed it. I caught the above discussion on "sarva saptakavarga", but did not get a chance to reply then.

 

Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

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-------------------------------

 

> || Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat ||

>

> Dear Narasimha,

> Do you plan to make any corrections in ashakavarga point calculations? There

> was a discussion sometime back about totaling error.

> Best Wishes,

> Ramesh

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ramesh,

 

You are using an option I added for researchers. That is the reason for the discrepancy.

 

Instead of adding scores in signs, it adds scores in houses. For example, the score in the 1st house from Sun in Sun's BAV, the score in the 1st house from Moon in Moon's BAV etc are added up and the score is written in SAV in the 1st house from lagna.

 

This is only experimental research. The standard method is to simply add the scores in the same sign in all BAV's and write the sum in the same sign in SAV.

 

Go to the main menu (top). Click "Preferences", "Related to Calculations" and "Ashtakavarga Calculation Options". The second checkbox of the dialog box is checked in your case and hence the research option is in use. Now, uncheck that. You will be all set!

 

Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

 

> || Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat ||

>

> Dear Narasimha,

> Thank you for your kind response. I however find totals of 7 charts

> excluding lagna not matching with SAV. A chart discussed in in your lesson

> 75 is attached, details below.

>

> lesson75, part 1

>

> Natal Chart

>

> July 18, 1968

> Time: 17:28:00

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Place: 77 E 17' 00", 15 N 38' 00"

> Adoni, India

>

>

> ASC SUN MOON MARS MERCURY JUPITER

> VENUS SATURN 8 BAVs TOT 7 BAVs TOT JHORA TOT

> HOUSE RASHI

>

> 1 SAGITTARIUS 2 4 3 5 4 4 4

> 3 29 27 29

> 2 CAPRICORN 4 6 4 3 5 3 2

> 3 30 26 32

> 3 AQUARIUS 5 6 5 4 5 4 7

> 5 41 36 21

> 4 PISCES 4 4 4 1 6 7 4 3

> 33 29 21

> 5 ARIES 5 5 5 4 3 5 6 3

> 36 31 26

> 6 TAURUS 3 4 4 4 6 5 5 5

> 36 33 29

> 7 GEMINI 6 4 4 4 4 5 4 4

> 35 29 29

> 8 CANCER 3 3 1 3 6 3 4 2

> 25 22 33

> 9 LEO 3 2 4 1 2 6 6 3

> 27 24 28

> 10 VIRGO 7 3 7 4 4 6 2 3

> 36 29 30

> 11 LIBRA 3 4 5 3 4 5 3 3

> 30 27 31

> 12 SCORPIO 4 3 3 3 5 3 5

> 2 28 24 28

> 49 48 49 39 54 56 52 39

> 386 337 337

>

> Best Wishes,

> Ramesh

>

>

>

> _____

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa] On Behalf Of

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> Friday, August 04, 2006 11:18 AM

> vedic astrology; sohamsa;

>

> SAV Question (Re: Jhora - Technical Question)

>

>

>

>

> Dear Ramesh,

>

> > Do you plan to make any corrections in ashakavarga point calculations?

> There

> > was a discussion sometime back about totaling error.

>

> There is no totalling error.

>

> Are you talking about the point someone made a while ago about JHora not

> adding ashtakavargas properly to come up with SAV? If I remember right, the

> person said something like JHora's SAV not being "sarva ashtakavarga" but

> being "sarva saptakavarga", as only 7 charts are totalled.

>

> That is merely that person's theory. It is not a well-accepted view. All

> authors have taught adding the seven bhinna ashtakavargas (BAVs) to come up

> with SAV. Lagna's BAV is not included in SAV.

>

> The point that this makes it "sarva saptakavarga" is silly. We are still

> adding "ashtakavargas" only. Whether "sarva" (literally, all) means seven

> planets or eight points including lagna is debatable. Instead of adding

> eight "ashtakavargas", we are adding seven "ashtakavargas". They are still

> ashtakavargas and not saptakavargas. Each chart considers auspicious places

> for the seven planets w.r.t. the eight references.

>

> For research, I will add the option of including lagna's BAV also in SAV.

> However, I will caution people that this pushes the scores artificially

> high. The rules of >30 scores being excellent and 25-30 being neutral etc

> will be offset by this. For example, SAV of my rasi chart has 5 out of 12

> rasis with scores of 30 or higher. They are considered strong houses. If I

> add lagna's BAV also, 9 out of 12 rasis have scores of 30 or higher.

>

> In fact, many people will have too many houses with scores of 30 or higher.

> After all, the total of all rasis in SAV increases from 337 to 386, when you

> add lagna's BAV! The average score increases from 337/12=28.1 to

> 386/12=32.2. Thus, >30 scores becomes commonplace. The directive from

> classics that 25-30 is average and >30 is good is no longer relevant.

>

> I strongly advise against this change. Adding the ashtakavargas of 7 planets

> to come up with SAV is the correct approach.

>

> If there was some other discussion on "totaling error" that I missed, please

> forward the discussion to me. I missed it. I caught the above discussion on

> "sarva saptakavarga", but did not get a chance to reply then.

>

> Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

> > || Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat ||

> >

> > Dear Narasimha,

> > Do you plan to make any corrections in ashakavarga point calculations?

> There

> > was a discussion sometime back about totaling error.

> > Best Wishes,

> > Ramesh

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimha ji and Visti ji ,

The discussions on Astaka-Varga are quite illuminating. I may like to draw attention on some vital aspects which may help to widen THE understanding:

1.Basically Astak-Varga is to understand the transit results in more rational manner, of-course it has other uses also.

2.This is the basic reason that auspicious / un - auspicious influence is judged

from eight points that of seven planets ,instead of only either of Moon or Ascendant only. As lagna does not transit Parasara also did not include

Lagna Astaka-Varga.In Nabhus Yogas and in Chakras where 28 Nakshatras are considered , seven visible planets play prominent role.Sapta-astak varga

indicate basic auspicious strength of the signs in nativity.AND LAGNA VARGA HAS NO DIRECT ROLE IN THIS SCHEME.

3. For Rasi Dasas and longevity calculations ,Lagna astak -varga is more usefully adopted.

4. Some authorities also suggested the use of Astaka-Varga of Rahu and Ketu.

Their use should be limited to know the effects of these planets only.

5.Lagna Astaka -Varga has a specific role and it should not be integrated with

basic scheme of Sapta-astaka varga.7 OR 8 CHAR-KARKA DOES NOT SEEM

TO INFLUENCE THE BASIC SCHEME.

I support the views of Mr. Narasimha.

Regards,

G.K.GOEL

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Visti,

 

> Your totalling calculation is well known and acceptable and i fully agree

> with the doubt that an average of 32 vs. 28 does not add up with Parasaras

> view that 30 is the middle limit for experiencing auspicious vs.

> inauspicious results. But, you can also not justify that 28 as an average is

> more acceptable as this average is less auspicous. On this point i don't see

> your justification and i would appreciate a more detailed explanation.

 

The "middle" value for experiencing good and bad results is not 30. Parasara taught that good results are obtained for scores over 30, bad results for scores below 25 and "medium" results for scores between 25 and 30. Thus, the "middle limit" is in between 25 and 30. The value 28 (average score in SAV, using seven ashtakavargas of planets) fits here better than the value of 32 (average score in SAV, using eight ashtakavargas).

 

To me, this amply suggests that lagna's AV is not included in SAV. Otherwise, Parasara's guidelines on good, medium and bad scores in SAV become illogical. If 8 AVs were to be summed, I would've expected Parasara to teach that 30-35 is medium, >35 is good and <30 is bad.

 

> But, Parasara has not mentioned the omition of the lagna-varga, which is a

> very obvious omition from an otherwise very explicit rishi.

 

Well, Parasara does not really mention everything "very explicitly". A lot of things are read between the lines. He is only *relatively* more explicit than Jaimini.

 

He neither mentions the omission nor the inclusion of lagna's AV. Then, we have the above logic that suggests that lagna's AV is not included.

 

> I have used the term 'sarva saptakavarga' quite playfully, and if i have

> hurt you or anyone, i do apologize. It was never meant as criticism, but as

> a means to invite new-thinking in others.

 

New-thinking is always welcome. However, "sarva saptaka varga" label on what everybody including Dr Raman taught is quite unjustified. If one does not realize that you were being "quite playful", one can actually be misled by that harsh label (which really has no basis).

 

Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

-------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------

 

> ||Hare Rama Krsna||

>

> Dear Narasimha, Namaskar

>

> I have used the term 'sarva saptakavarga' quite playfully, and if i have

> hurt you or anyone, i do apologize. It was never meant as criticism, but as

> a means to invite new-thinking in others.

>

> I fully agree with your statement about the 'common' application and

> acceptance of Sarva-ashtakavarga. The problem is that some well-reckognized

> authors such as Varahmihira, Vaidyanath Dikshita, etc. invite and use the

> addition of seven vargas for the SAV scheme. They have also given points to

> credit this scheme, which Guruji has reproduced in his book.

>

> But, Parasara has not mentioned the omition of the lagna-varga, which is a

> very obvious omition from an otherwise very explicit rishi. So unless we

> wanto contend this statement of a rishi, we should use all vargas if we

> wanto follow Parasara.

>

> Then what about the other respectable authors who use seven vargas??? Now,

> my personal learning from Guruji is that the eight vargas relate to the

> eight chara karaka, whilst seven are related to seven chara karaka. In other

> words: (1) eight chara karakas are used for natal chart, whilst (2) seven

> chara karakas are used for muhurta. This is acceptable as Parasara himself

> has mentioned that 'others use seven chara karakas', and hence the

> connection between AV and chara karakas. So also others will need to use

> seven vargas. I'm stating this for reference, but i won't hold anything

> against you if you do not accept it.

>

> Your totalling calculation is well known and acceptable and i fully agree

> with the doubt that an average of 32 vs. 28 does not add up with Parasaras

> view that 30 is the middle limit for experiencing auspicious vs.

> inauspicious results. But, you can also not justify that 28 as an average is

> more acceptable as this average is less auspicous. On this point i don't see

> your justification and i would appreciate a more detailed explanation.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> ***

>

> Visti Larsen

>

> For services and articles visit:

>

> <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com

>

> ***

>

> _____

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa] On Behalf Of

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> 04 August 2006 17:18

> vedic astrology; sohamsa;

>

> SAV Question (Re: Jhora - Technical Question)

>

>

>

> Dear Ramesh,

>

>

>

> > Do you plan to make any corrections in ashakavarga point calculations?

> There

> > was a discussion sometime back about totaling error.

>

>

> There is no totalling error.

>

>

>

> Are you talking about the point someone made a while ago about JHora not

> adding ashtakavargas properly to come up with SAV? If I remember right, the

> person said something like JHora's SAV not being "sarva ashtakavarga" but

> being "sarva saptakavarga", as only 7 charts are totalled.

>

>

>

> That is merely that person's theory. It is not a well-accepted view. All

> authors have taught adding the seven bhinna ashtakavargas (BAVs) to come up

> with SAV. Lagna's BAV is not included in SAV.

>

>

>

> The point that this makes it "sarva saptakavarga" is silly. We are still

> adding "ashtakavargas" only. Whether "sarva" (literally, all) means seven

> planets or eight points including lagna is debatable. Instead of adding

> eight "ashtakavargas", we are adding seven "ashtakavargas". They are still

> ashtakavargas and not saptakavargas. Each chart considers auspicious places

> for the seven planets w.r.t. the eight references.

>

>

>

> For research, I will add the option of including lagna's BAV also in SAV.

> However, I will caution people that this pushes the scores artificially

> high. The rules of >30 scores being excellent and 25-30 being neutral etc

> will be offset by this. For example, SAV of my rasi chart has 5 out of 12

> rasis with scores of 30 or higher. They are considered strong houses. If I

> add lagna's BAV also, 9 out of 12 rasis have scores of 30 or higher.

>

>

>

> In fact, many people will have too many houses with scores of 30 or higher.

> After all, the total of all rasis in SAV increases from 337 to 386, when you

> add lagna's BAV! The average score increases from 337/12=28.1 to

> 386/12=32.2. Thus, >30 scores becomes commonplace. The directive from

> classics that 25-30 is average and >30 is good is no longer relevant.

>

>

>

> I strongly advise against this change. Adding the ashtakavargas of 7 planets

> to come up with SAV is the correct approach.

>

>

>

> If there was some other discussion on "totaling error" that I missed, please

> forward the discussion to me. I missed it. I caught the above discussion on

> "sarva saptakavarga", but did not get a chance to reply then.

>

>

>

> Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

>

> Narasimha

>

> -------------------------

>

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

>

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

>

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

> -------------------------

>

>

>

> > || Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat ||

> >

> > Dear Narasimha,

> > Do you plan to make any corrections in ashakavarga point calculations?

> There

> > was a discussion sometime back about totaling error.

> > Best Wishes,

> > Ramesh

>