Indian preacher belittles Krishna on Christian tv

[Guest guest]

 

people with no knowledge what so ever thinks that that there God is supreme and others are false Gods.. the sun shines on all in every country, but we all have different names for the sun,

 

sol, sunna, surya, sonne etc.. but its the same sun..

 

you are right. It goes back to the ancient hebrew religion claiming only Yahweh is the true God, and all the gods of the nations are false. So this thinking has crept into Christianity, which is an offshoot of Judaism, and they assume that others like the Vaishnavas, must be worshipping a false god, since the name Krsna/Govinda is not spoken of by Moses or the hebrew prophets and the Bhagavad Gita is not part of the Judeo-Christian scriptures, but another religious tradition.

 

Plus, we do not claim that Jesus Christ is the only way to Vaikuntha, so they'd condemn us even if they thought Krsna = Yahweh, just like they say Jews and Muslims will go to hell even though they acknowledge that they might worship Yahweh, they are not considered saved and washed in the blood of Christ. Their theology is not openminded to accept other traditions, because they believe Jesus Christ alone can save souls from God's wrath.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

you are right. It goes back to the ancient hebrew religion claiming only Yahweh is the true God, and all the gods of the nations are false.

Krishna says:

 

Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. [bG 9.23-24]

 

So He is saying that all gods but Him are essentially false - so why is it any different when He expressed the same thing - as "Yahweh"?

[Guest guest]

In a previous life,Prahlad cleaned a spot in an old abandoned temple of Nrisinghadeva so he could bring a prostitiute there and the Lord gave him credit for cleansing his temple.

 

As such in his next life he became Prahlad.

[Guest guest]

 

Krishna says:

 

Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. [bG 9.23-24]

 

So He is saying that all gods but Him are essentially false - so why is it any different when He expressed the same thing - as "Yahweh"?

 

 

He doesn't say all other gods are false. He says that He is the ultimate destination, but not that all other gods are false. All other gods are Him anyway, but people worship Him through other gods, indirectly, without knowledge of the Self, of Krishna, so they are termed ignorant.

[Guest guest]

 

you are right. It goes back to the ancient hebrew religion claiming only Yahweh is the true God, and all the gods of the nations are false. So this thinking has crept into Christianity, which is an offshoot of Judaism, and they assume that others like the Vaishnavas, must be worshipping a false god, since the name Krsna/Govinda is not spoken of by Moses or the hebrew prophets and the Bhagavad Gita is not part of the Judeo-Christian scriptures, but another religious tradition.

 

Plus, we do not claim that Jesus Christ is the only way to Vaikuntha, so they'd condemn us even if they thought Krsna = Yahweh, just like they say Jews and Muslims will go to hell even though they acknowledge that they might worship Yahweh, they are not considered saved and washed in the blood of Christ. Their theology is not openminded to accept other traditions, because they believe Jesus Christ alone can save souls from God's wrath.

 

That same kind of mentality is present in the forums here too though. Unless a so-called avatar was mentioned in the scriptures, he cannot be an avatar, and must therefore be a liar.

[Guest guest]

 

Krishna says:

 

Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. I am the only enjoyer and the only object of sacrifice. Those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down. [bG 9.23-24]

 

So He is saying that all gods but Him are essentially false - so why is it any different when He expressed the same thing - as "Yahweh"?

 

Orthodox Jews are forbidden to worship Krsna or any god but the God revealed to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. All the gentile gods were/are considered false (as in non-existent). Orthodox Jews/Christians do not believe in the demigods; nor do they acknowledge the Supreme God of other goyim religions.

 

Yahweh does not say in the Torah: "in whaterver form the devotee approaches me, I strengthen their faith in that form."

 

In ancient times, Hebrews who worshipped other gods, were to be stoned to death according to the Torah. Krsna does not say worshippers of the Devas, are to be stoned to death.

 

Judaism and Christianity has always been far more conservative as far as FORBIDDING worship of other gods or calling God by other names than those shown in the Hebrew Bible. All the Vedic sects are liberal in comparison to the Abrahamic religions. Even the Vaishnavas. Jews or Christians do not worship or pay respect to Krsna or Buddha in any orthodox synagogues or churches, but many Vaishnavas pay respect to Jesus Christ and Buddha. This is because Vaishnavism is a more liberal or universal religion, than the Abrahamic religions, which are very strict in following Yahweh and his prophets alone.

[Guest guest]

the point I have tried to make before is that the voice from the sky that told Joshua to kill all the people of AI and the other Kingdoms around there to establish the nation of Israel, was not the voice of Krishna or Vishnu.

 

I don't know who that "God" was, but from the type of offerings he was given and the type of violence and murder of children, women and old men that he approved and ordered for the sake of creating Israel, I would have to say he is a minor demigod or even an asura passing himself off as God.

 

 

Now it happened after the death of Moses the servant of Yahweh, that Yahweh spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ servant, saying, 1:2 “Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, you, and all this people, to the land which I give to them, even to the children of Israel. 1:3 I have given you every place that the sole of your foot will tread on, as I told Moses. 1:4 From the wilderness, and this Lebanon, even to the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and to the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your border. 1:5 No man will be able to stand before you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not fail you nor forsake you.

 

1:6 “Be strong and courageous; for you shall cause this people to inherit the land which I swore to their fathers to give them. 1:7 Only be strong and very courageous, to observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded you. Don’t turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may have good success wherever you go. 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall have good success. 1:9 Haven’t I commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Don’t be afraid, neither be dismayed: for Yahweh your God is with you wherever you go.”

 

 

I don't believe that God actually spoke these words.

Maybe he wanted to be God and liked for others to see him as God, but I am not buying it.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

All other gods are Him anyway

 

With all due respect that is incorrect. There are devas - they are not gods in the sense that God is God - and they and He have seperate identity - that is the understanding in Gita.

[Guest guest]

 

With all due respect that is incorrect. There are devas - they are not gods in the sense that God is God - and they and He have seperate identity - that is the understanding in Gita.

 

 

I'm not saying that they aren't different from Him, but they are also the same as Him, in the sense that He is in them. So when one worships any of the deities, it indirectly goes to Him, residing in that deity, and thus, all prayers actually end up going to Him. He is in everything so He is the enjoyer and doer of everything. Therefore, He is ultimately the one who prays, and He is ultimately the one who is prayed to.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

I'm not saying that they aren't different from Him, but they are also the same as Him, in the sense that He is in them. So when one worships any of the deities, it indirectly goes to Him, residing in that deity, and thus, all prayers actually end up going to Him. He is in everything so He is the enjoyer and doer of everything. Therefore, He is ultimately the one who prays, and He is ultimately the one who is prayed to.

 

That sounds like a pantheistic and even - a mayavadi understanding...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

the point I have tried to make before is that the voice from the sky that told Joshua to kill all the people of AI and the other Kingdoms around there to establish the nation of Israel, was not the voice of Krishna or Vishnu.

 

I don't know who that "God" was, but from the type of offerings he was given and the type of violence and murder of children, women and old men that he approved and ordered for the sake of creating Israel, I would have to say he is a minor demigod or even an asura passing himself off as God.

 

 

 

I don't believe that God actually spoke these words.

Maybe he wanted to be God and liked for others to see him as God, but I am not buying it.

 

 

I have answered this type of post in the past - check back by tonight [Friday] this post shall have a reply...thank you!

[Guest guest]

Judaism and Christianity has always been far more conservative as far as FORBIDDING worship of other gods or calling God by other names than those shown in the Hebrew Bible. All the Vedic sects are liberal in comparison to the Abrahamic religions. Even the Vaishnavas. Jews or Christians do not worship or pay respect to Krsna or Buddha in any orthodox synagogues or churches, but many Vaishnavas pay respect to Jesus Christ and Buddha. This is because Vaishnavism is a more liberal or universal religion, than the Abrahamic religions, which are very strict in following Yahweh and his prophets alone.

[anandamahadeva~]

Let them belive what they will about lord sri-krishna, it only fuels there ignorance for it is bliss to them, my lord states in the bhagavad-gita that sometimes it is best to let a fool remain a fool.

[Guest guest]

Don,

 

The guest said "I'm not saying that they aren't different from Him, but they are also the same as Him, in the sense that He is in them. So when one worships any of the deities, it indirectly goes to Him, residing in that deity, and thus, all prayers actually end up going to Him. He is in everything so He is the enjoyer and doer of everything."

 

You call it mayavadi understanding but in the Bhagavad Gita, the Lord states-

 

"ye 'py anya-devata-bhakta

yajante sraddhayanvitah

te 'pi mam eva kaunteya

yajanty avidhi-purvakam

 

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way."

 

This seems to be in line with what guest has said. So, perhaps I misunderstood. Can you explain why you think it sounds like Mayavadi?

 

 

 

That sounds like a pantheistic and even - a mayavadi understanding...

[Guest guest]

 

He informed the Christian audience that Govinda is a "Hindu god" and it breaks his heart that people like that man roll around in the street crying out to a Hindu god, when the true God came as Christ, to die for their sins, so they don't have to wallow in the street.

 

 

(you mean: he "misinformed" the audience)

 

Well, we all know what would Jesus say to that: "Zack, you are the disgrace of Bharata Varsa!! Come back as fool in Alabama."

[Guest guest]

one intressting thing in gnosticism, yhwh is the demiurg, not the true God, a evil being that whant to entrap us in this world, he is like maya but evil..

 

ignorant people, in tamoistic faith sees that only there god is true and all false.. if u look the kabbalistic,sufis, gnostic mystics, they see that there are only 1 God but under different names.. allah is the same as krsna etc.. many christians are very secterian as many muslims.. they have a closed mind and cannot see God in other faiths.. just let them be, they dont wanna change so why try? u cannot wake a person who pretend to sleep..

 

they have a matralistic view of God and there faith, treat them like younger, ignorant brothers and sisters, just smile at there ignorance.. we are all the same family, with the same Father..

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Download this FREE MP3 - it's called "Go Go Govinda" - just see if you can stop listening to it!

 

http://music.download.com/jalebi/3615-8237_32-100934921.html

 

Just scroll down the page and you'll see it - "Go Go Govinda" - it takes a minute to download and hours to listen to....

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Don,

 

The guest said "I'm not saying that they aren't different from Him, but they are also the same as Him, in the sense that He is in them. So when one worships any of the deities, it indirectly goes to Him, residing in that deity, and thus, all prayers actually end up going to Him. He is in everything so He is the enjoyer and doer of everything."

 

You call it mayavadi understanding but in the Bhagavad Gita, the Lord states-

 

"ye 'py anya-devata-bhakta

yajante sraddhayanvitah

te 'pi mam eva kaunteya

yajanty avidhi-purvakam

 

Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way."

 

This seems to be in line with what guest has said. So, perhaps I misunderstood. Can you explain why you think it sounds like Mayavadi?

 

In context the quote says that some offer things to other gods and that they do this not knowing that they aught to offer them to Krishna - the methods of serving various gods is something else - and of course - only Vishnu can give salvation - so as Krishna says - those whose devotion is distorted in various ways - serve lesser gods - devas - of course these gods are not proxy for God - if we offer something to say Lord Shiva it does not mean we have offered to Krishna - in fact - it is the other way round - the demigods are given their offerings through the sacrifical fire - which fire IS directly Vishnu - so we cannot serve them without Krishna but we can and should serve Krishna with an proper understanding about them.

 

The other guest thinks that the gods are aspects of Krishna and that is not supported in Bhagavad Gita.

[Guest guest]

 

Download this FREE MP3 - it's called "Go Go Govinda" - just see if you can stop listening to it!

 

http://music.download.com/jalebi/3615-8237_32-100934921.html

 

Just scroll down the page and you'll see it - "Go Go Govinda" - it takes a minute to download and hours to listen to....

 

i didnt like this song.. i like the orginal better.. this is to "westernized" form my taste..

[Guest guest]

Got it now. Thanks prabhu.

 

 

In context the quote says that some offer things to other gods and that they do this not knowing that they aught to offer them to Krishna - the methods of serving various gods is something else - and of course - only Vishnu can give salvation - so as Krishna says - those whose devotion is distorted in various ways - serve lesser gods - devas - of course these gods are not proxy for God - if we offer something to say Lord Shiva it does not mean we have offered to Krishna - in fact - it is the other way round - the demigods are given their offerings through the sacrifical fire - which fire IS directly Vishnu - so we cannot serve them without Krishna but we can and should serve Krishna with an proper understanding about them.

 

The other guest thinks that the gods are aspects of Krishna and that is not supported in Bhagavad Gita.

[krishnadasa]

JUST ONE SENTENCE

"SATHYAMEVA JAYATHE"

[Guest guest]

the thing that really disarms Christians and brings them down to a human level with devotees is when they get the opporunity to associate with devotees on the personal level.

 

as a working class devotee, I have worked closely with some Christian brothers.

We have always bonded nicely and developed a good friendship and they always respected my faith and I respect theirs.

 

Two of these gentlemen were deacons in the church, yet they were very brotherly to me and always very curious to hear about God.

 

I have had very warm and friendly dealings with some serious Christian fellows before. We interacted as co-workers and we had very good talks and discussions about God frequently.

 

I never tried to convert them and they never tried to convert me.

We maintained a mutual respect and had very congenial friendships.

 

So, what some preacher on TV says does not matter, because people who get to know and meet devotees most usually come away with a good impression and an affectionate feeling.

 

I actually liked these Christian brothers and they knew that I genuinely respected their faith.

In return, they respected my faith and we had great friendships.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

i didnt like this song.. i like the orginal better.. this is to "westernized" form my taste..

 

That's cool - I love the original too - but many may like this one too - something for everyone!

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

the thing that really disarms Christians and brings them down to a human level with devotees is when they get the opporunity to associate with devotees on the personal level.

 

as a working class devotee, I have worked closely with some Christian brothers.

We have always bonded nicely and developed a good friendship and they always respected my faith and I respect theirs.

 

Two of these gentlemen were deacons in the church, yet they were very brotherly to me and always very curious to hear about God.

 

I have had very warm and friendly dealings with some serious Christian fellows before. We interacted as co-workers and we had very good talks and discussions about God frequently.

 

I never tried to convert them and they never tried to convert me.

We maintained a mutual respect and had very congenial friendships.

 

So, what some preacher on TV says does not matter, because people who get to know and meet devotees most usually come away with a good impression and an affectionate feeling.

 

I actually liked these Christian brothers and they knew that I genuinely respected their faith.

In return, they respected my faith and we had great friendships.

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Got it now. Thanks prabhu.

 

Yer most welcome! Do you like it? If you do - you're maybe like me - listening to it again and again?