Indian preacher belittles Krishna on Christian tv

[Guest guest]

 

if we offer something to say Lord Shiva it does not mean we have offered to Krishna

 

let me understand you, you believe the Jewish tribal god El is above Mahadeva~Shiva? you consider Shiva a demigod to the Jewish god? Since this is suppose to be a Vedic forum, I find this as much offensive, as anything Ravi Zacharias has stated about 'Hindu gods'.

 

Shiva is God. Krsna is God. Yes, Radha-Krsna is the Supreme Godhead. But Shiva is another form of God. NOWHERE is he ever called a DEMIGOD (a term that doesn't even exist in the Vedas to begin with) in any Vedic shastra. Shiva's work is destruction/transformation/regeneration.. we should never belittle Lord Shiva, by calling him a demigod.

 

MAHA-DEVA does not equal Demigod. Study Sanskrit and learn what MAHA means. It doesn't mean DEMI.

 

"Among the Rudras, I am Shankara."

- B.G. 10.23

 

Hare Krishna!

Om Namah Shivaya!

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

let me understand you, you believe the Jewish tribal god El is above Mahadeva~Shiva? you consider Shiva a demigod to the Jewish god? Since this is suppose to be a Vedic forum, I find this as much offensive, as anything Ravi Zacharias has stated about 'Hindu gods'.

 

Shiva is God. Krsna is God. Yes, Radha-Krsna is the Supreme Godhead. But Shiva is another form of God. NOWHERE is he ever called a DEMIGOD (a term that doesn't even exist in the Vedas to begin with) in any Vedic shastra. Shiva's work is destruction/transformation/regeneration.. we should never belittle Lord Shiva, by calling him a demigod.

 

MAHA-DEVA does not equal Demigod. Study Sanskrit and learn what MAHA means. It doesn't mean DEMI.

 

"Among the Rudras, I am Shankara."

- B.G. 10.23

 

Hare Krishna!

Om Namah Shivaya!

Ah here we get closer to the truth - you are correct - Lord Shiva is in fact God - He is God in contact with His material energy - but - He is the exception - the other devas are jiva atma or - individual souls.

 

You should consider that even though Lord Shiva is God - He Himself says that "there is no doubt that Vishnu is the deliverer of liberation for all" and - also recall that when Lord Shiva gave that demon the power to kill anyone by the touching of their head - well when the demon wanted to try it out on Lord Shiva first - Lord Shiva took shelter of Vishnu - and of course Vishnu tricked the demon into touching his own head - you must know this narration? Most important - when we see Lord Shiva pictured in trance - who is He meditating on? Vishnu?

 

I still stand by the point - if we offer something to Lord Shiva we cannot think that we are worshipping Krishna. However - if we worship Vishnu we are worshipping all the devas in that.

 

In a formal yajna - which is Vishnu - the gods - including Lord Shiva - are able to take their offerings. Remember Daksa and when he excluded Lord Shiva from the yajna...?

 

"...Daksa neglected great devotees like Lord Siva. According to Vedic scriptures, the demigods are eligible to participate in yajnas and share the oblations, but Daksa wanted to avoid them. All sacrifices are intended to pacify Lord Visnu, but Lord Visnu includes all His devotees. Brahma, Lord Siva and the other demigods are all obedient servants of Lord Visnu; therefore Lord Visnu is never satisfied without them. But Daksa, being puffed up with his power, wanted to deprive Lord Brahma and Lord Siva of participation in the sacrifice, understanding that if one satisfies Visnu, it is not necessary to satisfy His followers. But that is not the process. Visnu wants His followers to be satisfied first." [sB 4.3.3, purport]

[Guest guest]

 

they believe Jesus taught that Christianity is the only true religion, and all other religions lead to hell.

 

 

How is this any different from some (not all) in ISKCON who teach that ISKCON is the only true Gaudiya Vaishnava society, and that "it's better to eat hamburgers than to listen to Prabhupada's godbrother Sridhar Maharaja"?

 

People who have taught this are still giving class in Mayapur ISKCON today. Sectarianism isn't just a phenomenon of wacky Christian evangelists. Rather than mock nondevotees for their sectarianism, why can't we address the problem among our own?

[Guest guest]

 

How is this any different from some (not all) in ISKCON who teach that ISKCON is the only true Gaudiya Vaishnava society, and that "it's better to eat hamburgers than to listen to Prabhupada's godbrother Sridhar Maharaja"?

 

People who have taught this are still giving class in Mayapur ISKCON today. Sectarianism isn't just a phenomenon of wacky Christian evangelists. Rather than mock nondevotees for their sectarianism, why can't we address the problem among our own?

 

That's sad that they would say this. I am a Vaishnava, but not a member of ISKCON. I have met Hare Krishnas that show respect to other Vaishnavas that are not members of ISKCON, so hopefully that is just a problem of a few ISKCON leaders and not reflective of the majority HK-view towards other Vaishnavas. Talk about hating your own.

[Guest guest]

Ravi Zacharias is a young soul. In time he will mature spiritually, as we all will eventually. What comes out of his mouth proves that he is simply a young bottle of wine in the winecellar of the Divine that needs further aging to become mellow and palatable, so that the Divine will become greedy to taste the sweet, sweet wine that is in his heart.

 

"The Eleven Marks of A Holy Person"

from The Jewel Ornament of Liberation

by Gampopa [a Sanskrit text from India, smuggled into Tibet and then

translated by sGam popa]

 

"...Ninth, it is a sign that someone is holy or genuine if he or she does not get angry at the wrong-doing of others but is patient with it. Normally, when we hear about or see people doing something that we feel is morally incorrect

 

"we tend to generate the attitude, 'Those people are evildoers. They are sinners. They are bad. Oh, they kill animals! They do this; they do that.' You have compassion for the beings who have been harmed but not for those who did the harm.

 

"A genuine or holy person will have compassion for both, and especially for the people who are doing the evil."

 

Prabhuapada said, "Christ or Krishna, the name is the same."

 

So this Ravi Zacharias is at a certain stage of spiritual development. A person who is fully self-actualized doesn't freak out that he is ranting. Holy means

genuine. It means whole. It means you have fully integrated your personality.

 

It means you have resolved all of your "issues", so that you are not projecting your "issues" onto others. You can see the ebb and flow of life

and accept that all souls are part and parcel of the Supreme and each will

become liberated, i.e. fully mature at some point.

 

Until that time, each soul is either a young, medium, or old soul as far as

reincarnation goes. This earth planet is like one big classroom and all of the kids are in heterogenous grouping, in other words the special ed and those of normal IQ and the gifted and talented people are all in one classroom.

 

We are all on this big classroom, the material world and Maha Vishwa Guru

is our teacher. Some souls are immature in realization, having just recently

emerged from the tatastha. Others are medium souls, struggling to understand

what is going on. Other souls understand why we are here, can look back and understand all of their lessons, and are now preparing to graduate.

 

And even after they graduate from this high school we live in, planet Earth, we can go on to get our higher degrees. Or we can come back and teach, whatever the Principal and Superintendent wants us to do.

 

So Ravi Zacharaias has some piety. And perhaps for him even is an improvement what he is doing. Maybe he encountered some real cheaters

in his experiences with his native culture. [Now why wouldn't that surprise me?] For example:

 

HPI news 8-7-06

Patna India

from Hindustan Times

 

"...Criminals posing as swamis have confiscated more than $454 million USD

of temples, mutts[mathas], and trust properties in Bihar by sale, lease, or forcible occupation by persons with criminal antecedents, according to Bihar

State Board of Religious Trusts. Lands have slipped into the hands of criminals masquerading as priests and swamis..."

 

So maybe this guy is fried with religion from India for a while. Can we blame him? In the meantime, he is chanting the name of Christ, which Prabhupada said is the same as Krishna. So what is the big problemo?

 

Give him some time, he'll learn to become fried with Christianity also. Then he

will "abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me". We are all like fruits and we become mature spiritually when we are ripe, i.e. when we

have experienced many things. So he's a little bit green right now.

 

You know that in a future life he'll be rollin' around that Temple himself crying

"Govinda, Govinda!"

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

one intressting thing in gnosticism, yhwh is the demiurg, not the true God, a evil being that whant to entrap us in this world, he is like maya but evil.

That is bunk!

 

We don’t even demand you say “Krsna.” You can say “jehovah.” you can say “Yahweh.” You can chant the names of God. [sB 5.5.1, lecture]

 

Visnujana: They will say Yahweh is God.

Prabhupada: No, Yahweh, what is...? That is the name?

Visnujana: Name. “I am that...” It means in English, “I am that I am.”

Prajapati: Some people translate that as jehovah.

Visnujana: jehovah.

Prajapati: But it’s the same word. In fact, everyone agrees they do not know what the real name is. Some say Yahweh; some say jehovah. The Jewish tradition replaces completely and says Adonai, instead.

Prabhupada: That’s all right. He may not say. But we have to take from the meaning. What is the meaning?

Visnujana: “No one is beyond Me.”

Prabhupada: That’s all right. “No one is beyond Me.” Then he comes to our conclusion, all-attractive. ['Conversations with devotees on theology' April 01, 1975]

 

The fact is the real meaning of Yahweh into english is 'I will be whomever I will be' - not just 'I am that I am' - or whatever we see it as in various bibles.

 

So do you think that Prabhupada would accept that "yhwh is the demiurg, [demiurge: a subordinate being] not the true God, a evil being" - judging from those quotes - i do doubt it.

 

Hari Bolo!

[SunilJose]

Dear friends and countrymen,

I am an Indian and a Christian. I do believe in Christ Jesus being God of all creation and the only way to salvation. I understand that I may disagree with almost all of you on this forum but that is not a reason to disrespect you and anything you consider holy. Jesus himself said "Do to others as you would have them do to you." Since Mr Ravi and myself are both Christian from India will you please accept my humble apology for the comment that he made. Again dear brothers with my knees bent and arms folded I apologize for the hurt caused; SORRY