Ceasefire too soon?

[Guest guest]

First of all, answer this question without equivocation: do you or do you not condemn the muder, rape, mutilation, suicide bombing carried out by muslims all over the world? Or, do you blame the non-muslims for provoking muslims into committing these horrible crimes? Which one is it? Are you brave enough to answer?

 

I spoke many times on this forum about my answer to the problem of islamic terrorism but you ignore it****

 

Perhaps, I wasn't around when you spoke about it. Would you be gracious enough to spell it out now?

 

I am actually not worried about either of these two - Krsna is in charge****

 

Of course, but whenever Israel bombs terrorists, you are in charge...of spreading Islamist propaganda! When Israel is bombed, you say they deserve it and Krishna is in charge. How convenient!

 

I am worried about Vaishnavas supporting adharmic activities and thus contaminating our movement.****

 

Krishna is in charge of that too. Besides, you're openly supporting Islamic terrorism by NOT condemning it. If the terrorist is guilty, so is the sympathiser.

 

You question my guts? who the heck are you, anyway?***

 

A concerned Vaishnava. I am particularly concerned about people like you, who close their eyes to the reality of talibanization which is taking place all over the world. You are not concerned about that, but you waste no time in posting news on Israel on a daily basis. Makes you a coward and a hypocrite, both.

 

I printed and distributed Prabhupada's books in a communist Poland risking my life and limb in the process.****

 

The first step in Krishna Consciousness is to give up ahankar, which often revolves around "I am the doer." So please don't brag about having done these things, it's by Krishna's grace you've accomplished it. Always think, "Krishna is the doer, I am just an instrument." This was part of Sri Madhva's teaching.

 

I openly use my name here and dont hide like some coward behind no-name entries in controversial discussions.****

 

Immaterial. I could use a name here, would that make me a brave man in your book? If so, I'd be the first person to become brave in a minute. If not, why use a name? Either way, your logic is flawed.

 

IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU who drag our movement into the gutter of world politics, partiality and support for gross injustice.****

 

A khsatriya who hates politics is no kshatriya. By turning a blind eye to islamic evil, you're the one supporting injustice.

 

Idiots like a GBC member Harivilas, who publicly states he supports massive bombing of Islamic countries in order to "make room for Krsna consciousness".***

 

I don't know who this is, but he certainly is my hero now. LOL. Seriously, why do you care about nations that torment women and children, attack and abuse Vaishnavas, stone rape victims, encourage terrorism, and so on? Why indeed? Don't you think the world would be a better place without Islamic barbarians?

 

but... surprise, surprise... he also happens to be the member of your tribe.***

 

I don't know what tribe you're talking about here. I, most unfortunately, belong to the 'human tribe', which is why I have to put up with Islamists and their sympathisers. I feel like Prahlad trapped in a world of asuras. Oh Krishna, please save me from the (demonic) kula tribe!

[Kulapavana]

 

First of all, answer this question without equivocation: do you or do you not condemn the muder, rape, mutilation, suicide bombing carried out by muslims all over the world?

 

 

again, yes, I condemn all such acts without any hesitation.

 

and I also condemn without hesitation the Israeli state sponsored terrorism and war crimes, as well as the barbarous and criminal American war in Iraq.

 

then here is my question to you:

 

do you condemn the Israeli state sponsored campaign of terror, which kills many more innocent people than Palestinian terrorism?

 

do you condemn the barbaric actions of US in Iraq, that resulted in hundreds of thousands innocent people being killed?

 

 

and yes, you are a coward in my book because you hide. a coward or a paid manipulator judging by your sectarian rants.

[Guest guest]

again, yes, I condemn all such acts without any hesitation.****

 

Not good enough. Say it openly. Say that you condemn Islamic terrorism that's killed, raped, mutilated, stoned millions upon millions all over the world. Don't just make a general statement. Be specific, then I can assess your sincerity, or the lack thereof.

[Kulapavana]

 

again, yes, I condemn all such acts without any hesitation.****

 

Not good enough. Say it openly. Say that you condemn Islamic terrorism that's killed, raped, mutilated, stoned millions upon millions all over the world. Don't just make a general statement. Be specific, then I can assess your sincerity, or the lack thereof.

 

LOL! you are full of typical chutzpah. demand, demand, demand... complain, complain, complain - and deliver absolutely nothing yourself. it is a two way street, bubba.

[Guest guest]

LOL! you are full of typical chutzpah. demand, demand, demand... complain, complain, complain - and deliver absolutely nothing yourself. it is a two way street, bubba.*****

 

So you admit you're reluctant to condemn islamic terrorism. Why am I not surprised? You are toooooo eager to condemn specific incidents relating to Israel bombing lebanese terrorists, but when it comes to islamic terrorism, you simply make a general statement such as "I condemn all acts."

 

Why can't you be specific (as specific as you normally are when condemning israel) vis-a-vis islamic terrorism? Why can't you quote a particular terror incident in Pakistan or wherever, and then condemn it, exactly the way you quote israeli incident and then condemn it? When it comes to israel, you don't make a general statement, do you? You post stories on how israelis allegedly tortured lebanese etc. etc. In the same breath, please post some news and stories on muslims mutilating and stoning people in afghanistan and elsewhere.

 

of course, you won't do that. You lack the integrity.

[Kulapavana]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/777223.html

 

<!-- Khazars steal land and natural resources and no body bats an eye -->Peace Now: 43% of outposts on private Palestinian land

 

By Nadav Shragai, 10/20/2006

 

According to a survey by Peace Now, some parts of 75 of the 102 outposts in the West Bank are on private Palestinian land. The survey, carried out by the organization's settlement monitoring team, found that the total area of the outposts is 16,196 dunams, out of which about 43 percent are on private Palestinian land (6,986 dunams); 7.6 percent are on lands pending recognition as state lands (1,226 dunams) and only about 49 percent of the area of the 75 outposts in question are on state land (7,984 dunams).

 

The Sasson Report on outposts stated that "the establishment of outposts on private Palestinian lands is absolutely prohibited," and that such construction "can in certain circumstances constitute a criminal act." Sasson also wrote that such construction was first and foremost "a serious affront on an individual's property rights" and that "the establishment of an outpost on private Palestinian land cannot by authorized, even retrospectively." According to Sasson, the outposts should be dismantled, "the sooner the better."

 

According to the Peace Now report, 15 of the outposts are comprised of 70 percent private Palestinian property. Another 15 outposts stand on between 40 and 70 percent private Palestinian lands. Among them are one located near Susya in the southern Hebron hills, west Tapuah, Givat Hahish, Haroeh, and Mitzpeh Dani. The area of another 45 outposts has been constructed on between one and 40 percent Palestinian land.

 

"The data shows that contrary to the false impression the setters are trying to make, most of the outposts are built fully or partially on Palestinian land, which has been recognized even by the state," Dror Etkes, the head of the monitoring team, said yesterday. Etkes called construction on these lands "highway robbery."

 

"The removal of the outposts, and punishment of the people responsible for their construction, will bring Israel somewhat closer to the level of a country in which the rule of law prevails," Etkes said.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Kula cannot hide the fact that he's taken up an apologist position for the islamists - clearly that has long been the case. I can copy and paste a great deal of direct statements from him to confirm that.

 

He also ignores the islamic revolution - even when the islamists confirm that is their agenda - he still calls them freedom fighters...

[Guest guest]

Kula cannot hide the fact that he's taken up an apologist position for the islamists - clearly that has long been the case.****

 

Absolutely. He keeps posting news on Israel, not realizing that Israel is forced to react in this manner only because Palestinian terrorism is intolerable. It is not as if palestinians are angels, they are murderers and they're getting what they deserve. Case closed.

 

BTW, have you ever noticed Kula post something on Islam, say the genocide of Hindus in Islamic bangladesh, or the treatment meted out to non-muslims in Saudi Arabia? Never!

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Kula cannot hide the fact that he's taken up an apologist position for the islamists - clearly that has long been the case.****

 

Absolutely. He keeps posting news on Israel, not realizing that Israel is forced to react in this manner only because Palestinian terrorism is intolerable. It is not as if palestinians are angels, they are murderers and they're getting what they deserve. Case closed.

 

BTW, have you ever noticed Kula post something on Islam, say the genocide of Hindus in Islamic bangladesh, or the treatment meted out to non-muslims in Saudi Arabia? Never!

 

No - he only posts in a manner which tries to make his islamist associates look good...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/777223.html

 

<!-- Khazars steal land and natural resources and no body bats an eye -->Peace Now: 43% of outposts on private Palestinian land

 

By Nadav Shragai, 10/20/2006

 

According to a survey by Peace Now, some parts of 75 of the 102 outposts in the West Bank are on private Palestinian land. The survey, carried out by the organization's settlement monitoring team, found that the total area of the outposts is 16,196 dunams, out of which about 43 percent are on private Palestinian land (6,986 dunams); 7.6 percent are on lands pending recognition as state lands (1,226 dunams) and only about 49 percent of the area of the 75 outposts in question are on state land (7,984 dunams).

 

The Sasson Report on outposts stated that "the establishment of outposts on private Palestinian lands is absolutely prohibited," and that such construction "can in certain circumstances constitute a criminal act." Sasson also wrote that such construction was first and foremost "a serious affront on an individual's property rights" and that "the establishment of an outpost on private Palestinian land cannot by authorized, even retrospectively." According to Sasson, the outposts should be dismantled, "the sooner the better."

 

According to the Peace Now report, 15 of the outposts are comprised of 70 percent private Palestinian property. Another 15 outposts stand on between 40 and 70 percent private Palestinian lands. Among them are one located near Susya in the southern Hebron hills, west Tapuah, Givat Hahish, Haroeh, and Mitzpeh Dani. The area of another 45 outposts has been constructed on between one and 40 percent Palestinian land.

 

"The data shows that contrary to the false impression the setters are trying to make, most of the outposts are built fully or partially on Palestinian land, which has been recognized even by the state," Dror Etkes, the head of the monitoring team, said yesterday. Etkes called construction on these lands "highway robbery."

 

"The removal of the outposts, and punishment of the people responsible for their construction, will bring Israel somewhat closer to the level of a country in which the rule of law prevails," Etkes said.

 

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=rarticle&raid=275

 

...how long before you convert?

[Guest guest]

Human Rights Watch says Lebanese group fired cluster rockets into civilian areas of northern Israel during recent war

Reuters

 

Lebanese Hizbullah guerrillas fired cluster rockets into civilian areas of northern Israel during the recent war, Human Rights Watch said in a report on Thursday.

 

 

 

Israel has itself been condemned by the New York-based group and other campaigners for its use of cluster bombs during the 34-day conflict.

 

 

In Lebanon

 

Report: Cluster bombs still killing Lebanese / Reuters

Land mine activists say bombs dropped by Israel on southern Lebanon in its month-long war with Hizbullah are still killing or injuring three to four civilians a day, a third of them children. Report says it will take another year or two to get situation under control

Full story

 

Human Rights Watch said it had been told by Israeli police of more than 100 documented cases of cluster rocket strikes.

 

 

 

Hizbullah made no immediate comment.

 

 

 

"We are disturbed to discover that not only Israel but also Hizbullah used cluster munitions in their recent conflict, at a time when many countries are turning away from this kind of weapon precisely because of its impact on civilians," said Steve Goose of Human Right Watch in the report.

 

 

 

Cluster bombs burst into bomblets that spread out over a wide area near the ground. Many bombs do not immediately explode, becoming land mines that can kill or maim humans well after the conflict.

 

 

 

770 sites hit by cluster bombs in Lebanon

 

The use of such bombs near civilian populations is forbidden by international humanitarian law.

 

 

 

Israel denies using the weapons illegally and has accused Hizbullah of firing rockets in Israel from towns and villages, using civilians as human shields.

 

 

 

A recent report by land mine activists identified 770 sites hit by cluster bombs in southern Lebanon before the ceasefire began on Aug. 14.

 

 

 

Human Rights Watch said the cluster munitions used by Hizbullah appeared to be Chinese-made 122 mm rockets, each one carrying 39 submunitions capable of shooting out hundreds of ball bearings.

 

 

 

Nearly 1,200 people in Lebanon, mostly civilians, and 157 Israelis, mostly soldiers, were killed during the fighting.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Human Rights Watch said the cluster munitions used by Hizbullah appeared to be Chinese-made 122 mm rockets, each one carrying 39 submunitions capable of shooting out hundreds of ball bearings.

 

 

 

 

I've been pointing that out in these threads since during the war...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

I spoke many times on this forum about my answer to the problem of islamic terrorism but you ignore it because you dont like it, and you have no stomach for it as it would cost your tribe land and money. so the war continues, because on both sides people like you add fuel to the fire by supporting injustice and hate.

 

 

 

I am worried about Vaishnavas supporting adharmic activities and thus contaminating our movement.

 

IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU who drag our movement into the gutter of world politics, partiality and support for gross injustice. Idiots like a GBC member Harivilas, who publicly states he supports massive bombing of Islamic countries in order to "make room for Krsna consciousness". That guy is clueless about what dharma realy is, and what spreads Krsna consciousnes. but... surprise, surprise... he also happens to be the member of your tribe. I doubt both of you really care about our movement - all you seem to care about is your own pet sectarian cause.

 

You write - "also happens to be a member of your tribe" - just see it shine through - you really do hate jews! You may side-step but your many comments prove otherwise.

 

You may have done trancendental things - like book distribution - but - so did many others in ISKCON who've later blooped - for all you've done - you've a very narrow understanding. Having done all you've done - it hasn't made you an expert...

 

You systematically rail against jews and israel and - we the readers don't ever see you do the same with your islamist heros!

 

You say you have spoken many times about your answer to this problem - well that's odd because I read everything you post - for more than a year now and - you've said nothing to this effect.

 

I don't think you care about our movement either.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

<table><tbody><tr><td valign="top">Source: Palestine News Network</td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top">Published: October 5, 2006 Author: Sa'ed Al Shouhki</td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top"></td></tr></tbody></table>

 

<!-- More not-ready-for-American-prime-time news -->Today in the southern West Bank's Hebron District a heavily armed group of Israeli settlers broke into the Halhoul Village Mosque and began performing Jewish religious services.

In contrast to the irregular fighters you support - who just bomb holy places...

[Kulapavana]

 

You write - "also happens to be a member of your tribe" - just see it shine through...

 

because these people posess TRIBAL CONSCIOUSNESS they are described by me in that fashion. loose your tribality BDM and develop spiritual consciousness, where ALL living entities are equally dear to Krsna: Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, etc. be just BDM, expose evil wherever it may be.

 

there are many here who present the unquestionably evil acts of the Muslim extremists - my job is to balance that presentation. ALL such abominable acts must be condemned.

[Kulapavana]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: bbc.co.uk</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Israel has for the first time admitted it used controversial phosphorous bombs during fighting against Hezbollah in Lebanon in July and August.

 

Cabinet minister Jacob Edery confirmed the bombs were dropped "against military targets in open ground".

 

Israel had previously said the weapons were used only to mark targets.

 

Phosphorus weapons cause chemical burns and the Red Cross and human rights groups say they should be treated as chemical weapons.

 

The Geneva Conventions ban the use of white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas.

 

Hospitals

 

Mr Edery says he confirmed during a parliamentary session last week on behalf of Defence Minister Amir Peretz that the weapons were used in fighting.

 

"The Israeli army made use of phosphorous shells during the war against Hezbollah in attacks against military targets in open ground," he said.

 

No information was given on when, where or how the shells were used.

 

Lebanon had accused Israel of using the weapons but at the time Israeli officials said they were only for marking.

 

Lebanese President Emile Lahoud said in late July: "According to the Geneva Convention, when they use phosphorous bombs and laser bombs, is that allowed against civilians and children?"

 

Doctors in hospitals in southern Lebanon had said they suspected some of the burns they were seeing were being caused by phosphorous bombs.

[Guest guest]

ALL such abominable acts must be condemned.****

 

Yes, only you NEVER condemn Islamic acts of violence and instead restrict yourself to posting fairytales and folklores about Israel.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

because these people posess TRIBAL CONSCIOUSNESS they are described by me in that fashion. loose your tribality BDM and develop spiritual consciousness, where ALL living entities are equally dear to Krsna: Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, etc. be just BDM, expose evil wherever it may be.

 

there are many here who present the unquestionably evil acts of the Muslim extremists - my job is to balance that presentation. ALL such abominable acts must be condemned.

 

because these people posess TRIBAL CONSCIOUSNESS they are described by me in that fashion

 

A predictable reply from you... "these people" - you mean hebrews!

 

here are many here who present the unquestionably evil acts of the Muslim extremists - my job is to balance that presentation.

 

It's not just their "unquestionably evil acts" - it's their islamic revolution - these 'actions' are not defensive in the least - they are offensive with a goal to inducing an islamist revolution.

 

That may have been the first time i saw you post 'the unquestionably evil acts of the Muslim extremists' - however - that doesn't negate your other issues as noted...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

ALL such abominable acts must be condemned.****

 

Yes, only you NEVER condemn Islamic acts of violence and instead restrict yourself to posting fairytales and folklores about Israel.

 

Yes it's that disinformation program about Israel which he centers on...

[Kulapavana]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: Reuters</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- These people are unbelievably stupid. -->Israeli jets fire over German navy ship off Lebanon

 

Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:05 PM BST

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - Two Israeli warplanes have fired over a German naval vessel patrolling off the Lebanese coast, the Defence Ministry in Berlin said on Wednesday.

 

The daily Der Tagesspiegel quoted a German junior defence minister as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters had flown low over the ship, firing twice.

 

The jets also activated infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying, in an advance release from Thursday's edition.

 

The minister did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman said on Wednesday. He declined to give further details as an investigation was under way.

 

An Israeli military spokeswoman said she was checking the report.

 

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off Lebanon 10 days ago, and has sent eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

 

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a cease-fire between Israel and the Lebanese Islamic militant group Hezbollah.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

<table><tbody><tr><td valign="top">Source: Reuters</td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top"></td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top"></td></tr></tbody></table><!-- These people are unbelievably stupid. -->Israeli jets fire over German navy ship off Lebanon

 

Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:05 PM BST

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - Two Israeli warplanes have fired over a German naval vessel patrolling off the Lebanese coast, the Defence Ministry in Berlin said on Wednesday.

 

The daily Der Tagesspiegel quoted a German junior defence minister as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters had flown low over the ship, firing twice.

 

The jets also activated infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying, in an advance release from Thursday's edition.

 

The minister did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman said on Wednesday. He declined to give further details as an investigation was under way.

 

An Israeli military spokeswoman said she was checking the report.

 

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off Lebanon 10 days ago, and has sent eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

 

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a cease-fire between Israel and the Lebanese Islamic militant group Hezbollah.

So we don't even know what really happened and you're already casting the aspersions on Israel...true to your MO.

[Kulapavana]

 

So we don't even know what really happened and you're already casting the aspersions on Israel...true to your MO.

 

LOL! we DO know that Israeli jets fired over a German navy ship

 

That is a hostile act of a provocative nature, illegal under international law. German ship was part of the UN deployment and Israel knows that. There were several such provocative incidents in Lebanon recently, including one with the French tank unit. IDF killed quite a few UN observers in the last two years in very deliberate attacks. UN peace keepers are very weary of the risks posed by deliberate Israeli attacks and do not trust that country very much.

 

and many still remember the USS Liberty attacked by Israel in 1967, when 34 American servicemen were killed.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ussliberty.html

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

LOL! we DO know that Israeli jets fired over a German navy ship

 

That is a hostile act of a provocative nature, illegal under international law. German ship was part of the UN deployment and Israel knows that. There were several such provocative incidents in Lebanon recently, including one with the French tank unit. IDF killed quite a few UN observers in the last two years in very deliberate attacks. UN peace keepers are very weary of the risks posed by deliberate Israeli attacks and do not trust that country very much.

 

and many still remember the USS Liberty attacked by Israel in 1967, when 34 American servicemen were killed.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ussliberty.html

 

Oh well...who cares? Not Me! If you think for one moment that it was on purpose - then you really are that thick....

[suchandra]

 

That is a hostile act of a provocative nature, illegal under international law.

 

Still someone who hasn't understood the rule - even if Israel is wrong - they are right! Paradox? Think twice, you might find the answer, Kula!

 

 

Friday, October 27, 2006

 

Israeli attack on Germany

 

 

The Germans reported that one of their ships sailing off the coast of Lebanon was fired upon by Israeli F-16 fighters. Israel immediately denied the incident, and then came up with a convoluted non-denial denial. We are left with the conclusion that Israel did fire, but did not intend to hit, the German ship (the proverbial ‘shot across the bow’). The attack worked, with the Germans cravenly agreeing to restrict the ambit of their ships to six nautical miles off the coast of Lebanon.

Why would Israel do something this stupid? For one thing, Germany is restricted from complaining too loudly, or will receive a guaranteed reminder about the Holocaust. Israel can get away with just about anything. The real reason for the attack probably relates to one of the reasons for the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. Besides attempting to frame the Egyptians for the attack (not a consideration now), Israel was afraid that the Liberty was close enough to listen in on its schemes. In fact, that is probably why the frame-up of the Egyptians didn’t work. To stop American spying, the Liberty was attacked. We can only assume that the Israelis feared that the Germans were using the excuse of the peacekeeping efforts to sneak in close enough to hear what they weren’t supposed to hear.

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Still someone who hasn't understood the rule - even if Israel is wrong - they are right! Paradox? Think twice, you might find the answer, Kula!

 

No - in yer convoluted world it's - even if Israel is right - they are wrong! [because they're jews]