Guest guest Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Israel 'indulging in private land theft' From correspondents in Jerusalem November 22, 2006 04:29am Article from: Agence France-Presse ALMOST 40 per cent of land held in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank is privately owned by Palestinians, according to a report published today by an Israeli watchdog group. Basing its findings on maps and leaked official documents, the anti-settlement Peace Now movement said that the land in question totalled 61 square kilometres. "Israel is acting as a mafia state by indulging in the theft of private land in defiance not only of international law, but Israeli law and rulings from the high court in particular," said Dror Etkes, who compiled the report. "Israeli officials have for a long time pretended the settlements were built on state land, now they are proved wrong," Yaariv Oppenheimer, a Peace Now spokesman, told a news conference in Jerusalem. One of the examples given was the case of Maale Adumim, the largest settlement in the West Bank that lies east of Jerusalem and which the report said sits on about 86 per cent of privately held Palestinian land. In all, the main settlement blocs that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert intended to annex to Israel as part of a giant, and now stalled project to redraw the country's borders, lie on 41.4 per cent of privately owned Palestinian land. The statistics do not include 12 Israeli neighbourhoods built in occupied and annexed east Jerusalem, captured in the 1967 Middle East war and part of what Israel considers its undivided capital, a move not recognised abroad. "We are going to submit all these statistics, based on official Israeli documents, to the government's legal adviser ... in the hope that he will open an inquiry and start legal proceedings against those who are guilty of land theft," Mr Oppenheimer said. A spokeswoman for the main Jewish settler lobby, rejected the report as a "tissue of lies". "This report, which is nothing new, is just a tissue of lies that makes up the war waged by Peace Now against Jews," she said. "The settlements were built with government authorisation on land that does not belong to the Palestinians," she said. All settlements in the West Bank, occupied by Israel since the 1967 Middle East war, are considered illegal under international law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Israel 'indulging in private land theft' From correspondents in Jerusalem November 22, 2006 04:29am Article from: Agence France-Presse ALMOST 40 per cent of land held in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank is privately owned by Palestinians, according to a report published today by an Israeli watchdog group. Basing its findings on maps and leaked official documents, the anti-settlement Peace Now movement said that the land in question totalled 61 square kilometres. "Israel is acting as a mafia state by indulging in the theft of private land in defiance not only of international law, but Israeli law and rulings from the high court in particular," said Dror Etkes, who compiled the report. "Israeli officials have for a long time pretended the settlements were built on state land, now they are proved wrong," Yaariv Oppenheimer, a Peace Now spokesman, told a news conference in Jerusalem. One of the examples given was the case of Maale Adumim, the largest settlement in the West Bank that lies east of Jerusalem and which the report said sits on about 86 per cent of privately held Palestinian land. In all, the main settlement blocs that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert intended to annex to Israel as part of a giant, and now stalled project to redraw the country's borders, lie on 41.4 per cent of privately owned Palestinian land. The statistics do not include 12 Israeli neighbourhoods built in occupied and annexed east Jerusalem, captured in the 1967 Middle East war and part of what Israel considers its undivided capital, a move not recognised abroad. "We are going to submit all these statistics, based on official Israeli documents, to the government's legal adviser ... in the hope that he will open an inquiry and start legal proceedings against those who are guilty of land theft," Mr Oppenheimer said. A spokeswoman for the main Jewish settler lobby, rejected the report as a "tissue of lies". "This report, which is nothing new, is just a tissue of lies that makes up the war waged by Peace Now against Jews," she said. "The settlements were built with government authorisation on land that does not belong to the Palestinians," she said. All settlements in the West Bank, occupied by Israel since the 1967 Middle East war, are considered illegal under international law. ...and? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 ...and? stealing land from it's rightful owners usually leads to an open conflict. Israel always portrays itself as a "victim" but - in reality - in many (if not most) of the cases they are the instigator of the conflict. The post above and a few others earlier show that trend. next time when you get stung by the bees pay attention to the guy who just whacked the beehive with a stick and is now hiding in the bushes laughing. after you kill all the bees he will come to get the honey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 [...]next time when you get stung by the bees pay attention to the guy who just whacked the beehive with a stick and is now hiding in the bushes laughing. after you kill all the bees he will come to get the honey. More of your subtle you know 'what' is gleaning from between the lines here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 More of your subtle you know 'what' is gleaning from between the lines here... yes, according to people like you, if one says "Palestinian atrocities are bad" - he is a pundit, but if one says "Israeli atrocities are bad too", he is an anti-semite... typical forked tongue "logic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 yes, according to people like you, if one says "Palestinian atrocities are bad" - he is a pundit, but if one says "Israeli atrocities are bad too", he is an anti-semite... typical forked tongue "logic". Isn't it just the opposite for you and those of your ilk? "if one says "Israeli atrocities are bad" - he is a pundit, but if one says "Palestinian atrocities are bad too" - he is a jew loving zionist spreading anti-muslim propaganda - isn't that so? <embed src=" " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 Isn't it just the opposite for you and those of your ilk? "if one says "Israeli atrocities are bad" - he is a pundit, but if one says "Palestinian atrocities are bad too" - he is a jew loving zionist spreading anti-muslim propaganda - isn't that so? Since you have such strong feelings about this, you and some like-minded intellegent devotees should form a sort of independent committee to work out some kind of solution to the problem, maybe some kind of Vaishnava political party, Knesset members, or something to give modern Israel a reasonable alternative, new hope. So far no political leaders in the Middle East are above the laws of karma, are chained up, hog-tied - why not make a change and have a karma-free Bhakta Don Muntean for presidency and stop the stupid chicanery? Just imagine, rotating planet earth is speeding with some 66,660 miles per hour in its revolution around the sun and we sitting on this high speed globe have nothing else to do than fighting with each other. What a humbug illusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 Since you have such strong feelings about this, you and some like-minded intellegent devotees should form a sort of independent committee to work out some kind of solution to the problem, maybe some kind of Vaishnava political party, Knesset members, or something to give modern Israel a reasonable alternative, new hope. So far no political leaders in the Middle East are above the laws of karma, are chained up, hog-tied - why not make a change and have a karma-free Bhakta Don Muntean for presidency and stop the stupid chicanery?Just imagine, rotating planet earth is speeding with some 66,660 miles per hour in its revolution around the sun and we sitting on this high speed globe have nothing else to do than fighting with each other. What a humbug illusion! Quote: Just imagine, rotating planet earth is speeding with some 66,660 miles per hour in its revolution around the sun and we sitting on this high speed globe have nothing else to do than fighting with each other. What a humbug illusion! Reply: Yes indeed - just as we are moving in four directions at once - at great speeds - people are bent in multiple and 'different' directions... <table align="left" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="350"> <tbody><tr align="left" bgcolor="#ffffcc"><td> •How fast is the Earth spinning?</td> <td>0.5 km/sec</td> </tr> <tr align="left" bgcolor="#ffff99"> <td> •How fast is the Earth revolving around the Sun?</td> <td>30 km/sec</td> </tr> <tr align="left" bgcolor="#ffff66"> <td> •How fast is the Solar System moving around the Milky Way Galaxy?</td> <td>250 km/sec</td> </tr> <tr align="left" bgcolor="#ffff33"> <td> •How fast is our Milky Way Galaxy moving in the Local Group of galaxies?</td> <td>300 km/sec</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/earth/Speeds.shtml Quote: why not make a change and have a karma-free Bhakta Don Muntean for presidency and stop the stupid chicanery? Reply: President of what and - who said that I'm 'karma free'? Of course as 'president' i would be less prone to 'tricks' and much more aware of the 'four defects' shared by all conditioned living beings - i would be exercising due diligence - to operate without duplicity or irrational partiality. Who knows my destiny - the future - right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 yes, according to people like you, if one says "Palestinian atrocities are bad" - he is a pundit, but if one says "Israeli atrocities are bad too", he is an anti-semite... typical forked tongue "logic". MUST SEE TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PWIK8YTZS8&eurl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 The words to this 1980's tune go well with this poster i made... "Mad World" All around me are familiar faces Worn out places, worn out faces Bright and early for their daily races Going nowhere, going nowhere And their tears are filling up their glasses No expression, no expression Hide my head I want to drown my sorrow No tomorrow, no tomorrow And I find it kind of funny I find it kind of sad The dreams in which I'm dying Are the best I've ever had I find it hard to tell you 'Cos I find it hard to take When people run in circles It's a very, very Mad World Children waiting for the day they feel good Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday Made to feel the way that every child should Sit and listen, sit and listen Went to school and I was very nervous No one knew me, no one knew me Hello teacher tell me what's my lesson Look right through me, look right through me [NOTE: look for the 'Gary Jules' version - it's WAY better than the original] [ www.azlyrics.com ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 <table><tbody><tr><td valign="top">Source: CNA</td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top">Published: November 8, 2006 </td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top"></td></tr></tbody></table><!-- Israel gets away with murder while Americans follow election results -->Israel launched more attacks in the northern part of the Gaza Strip early on Wednesday. Israeli tank shells and rockets fired from Israeli helicopters suddenly crashed into Beit Hanoun early Wednesday though Israeli forces had pulled out Tuesday after a week-long military operation. This morning's offensive left at least 18 dead, including children and women, and many others injured. Efforts are under way to rescue people, dead or alive, from the wreckage of buildings knocked down during the Israeli attack. The facts on this incident: http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Beit_Hanoun_In_Context.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 yes, according to people like you, if one says "Palestinian atrocities are bad" - he is a pundit, but if one says "Israeli atrocities are bad too", he is an anti-semite... typical forked tongue "logic". So did you watch the documentary? Did you see the various lies your heros tell: MUST SEE TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PWIK8YTZS8&eurl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 So did you watch the documentary? Did you see the various lies your heros tell: neither Palestinians nor the Israelis are my heroes. both parties are primitives bent on religious hatred and violence and will stop at nothing to achive their goals. as to spreading lies: lol! look who's talking! Israel was caught countless times spreading deliberate lies about their nefarious activities. truthfulness is not a quality prized among the semitic tribes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 neither Palestinians nor the Israelis are my heroes. both parties are primitives bent on religious hatred and violence and will stop at nothing to achive their goals. as to spreading lies: lol! look who's talking! Israel was caught countless times spreading deliberate lies about their nefarious activities. truthfulness is not a quality prized among the semitic tribes. Basically the situation of Israel/Palestine is everywhere, havent you noticed, Kula?? - presently the human experiment is globally endangered by an elite of private people who have usurped the function of money creation. The failure of present Vaishnavism causes modern history to reflect the gradual process by which they transfer all wealth and power to themselves, destroying basic needs for humanity to survive and creating a world police state based upon sinful activities. This could be also decribed as speeding up the development of kali-yuga in the name of advancing material sense gratification for a few millions of chosen people. Who do nothing but causing the laws of nature to turn against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Who do nothing but causing the laws of nature to turn against them. that is the way I see it too. one animal controls another animal, or in some other way a balancing act is taking place on its own. dont get too involved, dont let the demons use you - just make sure you yourself live in accordance with the laws of dharma. but dont hesitate to call a spade a spade, and an asura a demon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I wish peace to everyone and peace in your heart. I wish everyone to be happy and I wish sattva guna to predominate in everyone's mind and heart and all over the world. I wish everyone peace of mind. Aum shanthi shanthi aum. Not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of the Lord, so blame God if you don't like what is happening in the world. He created it, He sanctioned it, He is letting it go on like this. He created the people doing all of this stuff. He allowed there to be so many different confusing religions, He's the one who gave different instructions to different people that contradicts what the other religions say. And if He gave the exact same instructions to everyone, then He allowed a whole bunch of psychos to corrupt everything and have the power to do so and did not allow nice people to run the world, like Mr. Rogers for example. God only gave Mr. Rogers a TV show for children, not the presidency of any country hell-bent on total world domination for a few, negativity, and selfishness. God is the one who is allowing one percent of the people to own and control 95% of the world's resources and wealth. So if you don't like what is happening ask God why He is allowing this to happen, then I guess try to get on His good side (?). This kind of stuff been going on in human history for thousands of years: "As The World Burns" --Alice Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 but dont hesitate to call a spade a spade, and an asura a demon ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted February 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 ........ width="458" height="393"> <embed src="http://www.aish1.com/videos/standup-signup.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="393" width="458"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 So it looks like them knucklehead leaders of the KILLERS are ignoring the U.N. and as usual - the U.N. hasn't any grasp on this: http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.672581/k.CB99/Home.htm?sid=146774780&auid=2391916 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted March 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 The words to this 1980's tune go well with this poster i made... "Mad World" All around me are familiar faces Worn out places, worn out faces Bright and early for their daily races Going nowhere, going nowhere And their tears are filling up their glasses No expression, no expression Hide my head I want to drown my sorrow No tomorrow, no tomorrow And I find it kind of funny I find it kind of sad The dreams in which I'm dying Are the best I've ever had I find it hard to tell you 'Cos I find it hard to take When people run in circles It's a very, very Mad World Children waiting for the day they feel good Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday Made to feel the way that every child should Sit and listen, sit and listen Went to school and I was very nervous No one knew me, no one knew me Hello teacher tell me what's my lesson Look right through me, look right through me [NOTE: look for the 'Gary Jules' version - it's WAY better than the original] [ www.azlyrics.com ] ........ width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dexr5eCa5yY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dexr5eCa5yY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted March 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 I would like to say that anyone reading my old thread 'the origins of the Satan myth and its impact to global politics' aught to know that my opinions on many things have changed since posting that thread. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--> Specifically - but not limited to - the issues of the so-called freedom fighters - they are NOT freedom fighters. They are terrorists. As noted in other later postings by me on these threads – the Palestinian cause has been too long usurped by the islamists. I also accept that a preemptive strike on Iran’s nuclear program has its merits and - Israel cannot give up the Golan Heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Here is an important article about a [online] book that I too read in 2001-2002 - this book reads like it's fact based and in fact it isn't. I read that book [and i was at that time obtusely naïve as could be] and it helped to introduce false left-wing and other - more nasty notions into my thinking - as it related to the holocaust. Of course - as I continued to learn - from additional and broad sources - I came to understand that that book - is certainly an untoward and unjust left-wing propaganda - against the tremendous suffering of the Jews! There is no case for the idea that Zionists collaborated with nazis in the formation of the State of Israel – further – to say that it was the actions of Zionists that brought the nazi pogrom into existence is false. The book promotes – if only in a subtle fashion - the false premise that Zionists are some global conspiracy [like islamists!] - when Zionism was/is only concerned with the founding of the State of Israel – which was a miracle - as noted in my posting of the connected prophesy [i will reprint here]. - ABC: Giving Airtime to Extremists An Australian radio show spreads the myth of Zionist collaboration with the Nazis. The mainstream media generally refrains from giving a platform to far-right extremists with fascist or neo-Nazi backgrounds. Yet, no such stigma appears to be attached to the promotion of extreme far-left ideologues, despite the fact that Marxism and communism have also historically been responsible for mass murder and the stifling of individual freedoms. While left-wing anti-Zionism has seeped into the mainstream, there are still radical and appalling charges that belong on the fringes of accepted debate. One of these is the false accusation that Zionists actively collaborated with the Nazis. So why does Australia's ABC Radio ask on the transcript page of its "Religion Report": Which Israeli Prime Minister in his youth was a member of an organisation that offered to collaborate with the Nazis at the height of World War II, because of their shared racial ideology of blood and soil? This question is answered by American civil rights activist and Anti-Zionist Lenni Brenner, the author of "Zionism in the age of the dictators". The charge of Zionist collaboration with the Nazis is a form of Holocaust revisionism that is barely deserving of a response. (The history of the Holocaust has been exhaustively researched and is covered by a large number of reputable online sources.) A regular accusation employed by Soviet propagandists in the 1970s, this falsehood was trumpeted by Marxist Lenni Brenner's book in 1983 as a means to delegitimize Israel as a fascist and Nazi state. Classical Holocaust deniers claim that the mass extermination of the Jews never took place or seek to minimize the numbers of the dead. Left-wing revisionists such as Brenner do not deny that mass murder took place but seek to blame Zionist Jews for the actions of the Nazis. Michael Ezra points outs that: The neo-Nazi right was delighted with Brenner's book. An article that Brenner originally wrote for the London magazine Middle East International was subsequently reprinted by the American neo-Nazi publication Spotlight . The Australian far right also approved. Eric Butler, Director of League of Rights, wrote a long letter quoting Brenner's work. It would appear that in 1986 the neo-Nazi publishing house Noontide Press reprinted Brenner's book. Noontide Press specializes in hate literature. Amongst other books Noontide published include The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry by Arthur Butz and Did Six Million Really Die? by Richard Harwood. Noontide also publishes The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Henry Ford's The International Jew, both of which claim that Jews are plotting to take over the world. Abusing the memory of 6 million murdered Jews is a malicious method to attack Israel and has most recently been employed by Iranian President Ahmadinejad. Why has ABC indulged an extremist like Lenni Brenner? Click here - http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/contact/ - to send your considered comments to ABC and please send us copies of your e-mails and any responses to letters@honestreporting.com. FURTHER READING The ideological background behind left-wing anti-Zionism and Holocaust revisionism is a complicated one but here are a few sources for further reading: Paul Bogdanor - Information on the role of radical leftists in promoting hatred of Jews and denial of the Holocaust. Michael Ezra, The Abuse of Holocaust Memory: The Far Right, the Far Left and the Middle East LA TIMES PUBLISHES RESPONSE TO MAKDISI OP-ED Our recent critique of Saree Makdisi's op-ed in the LA Times, which questioned the recognition of Israel, prompted many of you to write letters to the paper. The LA Times has now given op-ed space to Judea Pearl of the Daniel Pearl Foundation, who addresses Makdisi's arguments: Never in the history of nations has a society defined itself on the ruins of a neighboring democracy and never has such society sought sovereignty and international legitimacy while admitting its intent. Makdisi, for example, is not a bit embarrassed to argue for a Palestinian state on Israel's tomb while quoting from Orwell on language and morality. The unique demand to recognize Israel's "right", not merely its "existence," reflects the general understanding among students of history that the core of the conflict and its resulting sufferings lies not in resource or border disputes, but in a deep ideological resistance by Palestinian Arabs to accommodate any form of a Jewish homeland in any part of Palestine since the end of World War I, accompanied by a persistent denial of any historical connection between the Jewish people and their national birthplace. HonestReporting. com ----- Here is that posting [i did on another thread here] regarding my realizations: In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven away, and her that I have afflicted; And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a mighty nation; and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from thenceforth even for ever. [Micah 4.6-7] Of course the messiah that is expected - shall not be seen through any second advent of Jesus - because Jesus isn't the prophetically expected [hebrew] messiah - the 'why not' part of that - is a whole other discussion . So it should be noted that the expected hebrew messiah [a complex subject matter] - is a human being - not God - not an incarnation [partial or otherwise] he isn't a demigod - he isn't a 'supernatural' nor divine being at all. - though he is 'different' - in that he has a 'general soul' or - a 'slightly universal' soul. He doesn't have magic powers. Like in the days of old - God shall work the wonders - during the messianic age. So what are a few points about this - in the Prophetic tradition. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken. For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. [Micah 4.4-5] In that quote we see that the messianic age - shall be multi-faith. But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days. Therefore will He give them up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel. [Micah 5.1-2] In that quote we see that the messiah's maternal roots could be traced to this place [Beth-lehem]. To say 'which art little to be among the thousands of Judah' indicates that this was an obscure place - not a place of greatness. It is a misnomer that he is to be born in Beth-lehem - clearly the texts confirm he is born among the exiles. In saying 'out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days' confirms that he has been reincarnating toward this point for a long time - 'whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days'. We also see that Beth-lehem shall not be a part of a State of Israel 'until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth' or - he is born - the text says 'Therefore will He give them up' - so is he talking about Beth-lehem - the Hebrew people in exile [and thus Jursalem] or - both? The full point is 'Therefore will He give them up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel' - so 'them' indentifies - both those in exile and - Beth-lehem. So they 'shall return' to where - to an already renewed and infant State or - to just a geographical location or - both? We must consider that were it not for Jesus and the Faith surronding him - Beth-lehem would certainly have become a nearly deserted and forgotten place [by the time messiah is born somewhere in the exile] and - for Hebrews it [was] is an 'obscure place' a place of 'no mention'. So we have to then ask - when did Beth-lehem again become part of a State of Israel? It was on June 05, 1967 - so 'He [will] give them up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth and - that then should indicate that - he must have to be born just prior to that event. Consider 'He [will] give them up until the time that she who is to give birth has given birth' - the word 'until' is important - so they are no longer 'given up' right after he is born and - if the messiah is to [alone] accomplish all this - how would he do so - as an infant child? So the use of 'until' means that as soon as he is born - no more position of being 'given up' or seperated from the renewed State. We can also add that the formal reclamation of all of Jerusalem could/would also coincide with this noted event: Now why dost thou cry out aloud? Is there no King in thee, is thy Counsellor perished, that pangs have taken hold of thee as of a woman in travail? [Micah 4.9] After that - there is this description in Zechariah 1.14-17: ...so the angel that spoke with me said unto me: 'Proclaim thou, saying: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy; and I am very sore displeased with the nations that are at ease; for I was but a little displeased, and they helped for evil. Therefore thus saith the LORD: I return to Jerusalem with compassions: My house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth over Jerusalem. Again, proclaim, saying: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: My cities shall again overflow with prosperity; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem. So that part - 'I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy; and I am very sore displeased with the nations that are at ease; for I was but a little displeased, and they helped for evil.' - that means that God is angry at the nations of the world for it's treatment of His exiled because He was 'but a little displeased' and yet the nations after the exile were to have 'helped for evil' [or helped forward the afflications] and they were 'at ease' with doing so - thus God says 'I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy' - so when we see fruition of the Micah 5.1-2 events we see that God permits all of Jerusalem to be again under an Israeli State. The State of Israel was first reclaimed after WWII - after the well known last general pogrom [directly under the Nazis and other's indirectly] came to an end - as noted in that quote God thinks that the world could have done more to prevent so much loss and instead they were 'at ease' with the Nazis - for too long - and God sanctioned this renewal - but - with this renewed State - there was a line as it were through [dividing] Jerusalem - until 1967. It should be mentioned that many propagandists have taken Zechariah 14.2 - 'For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, but the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.' - to mean that there shall be a future war there and 'the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city' - but this not so - as that was fulfilled in 30 C.E. - with the Exile - it should be noted that Muslim rulers later allowed the reestablishment of a Jewish community in Jerusalem thus 'the residue of the people [that] shall not be cut off from the city' means that even after the exile the people were being enabled by God - for a return to a former status as a State or - the end of the Exile! In text 3-4 we read that sometime after the exile comes "The Day of the Lord" - we note this point in texts three and four: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fighteth in the day of battle. And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleft in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, so that there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. So God indeed left mercy and an open door through this 'residue of the people [that] shall not be cut off from the city' - so that means that at some point [after the 30 C.E. exile] - the residue of the exile again comes to Jerusalem. Additionally - if the world ends up in a sorry state over this point - there may well come this 'vist' - that produces a mountain dividing earthquake - so - in text 7 we read - And there shall be one day which shall be known as the LORD'S, not day, and not night; but it shall come to pass, that at evening time there shall be light. - of course we 'everyone' have choices - that impact everything. So to the point again - there must have been a State of Israel - already in existence and intended by God - before the time of his birth - as noted by 'then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel' - it means that there is a State for him and his family and 'the children of Israel' to return to. So yes these are my humble interpretations but - it could well be that he is already here - what aspects of the future of the State of Israel [and the world] are to be impacted by his appearance - is another discussion. One thing is sure - whenever it is that he is born - there must have been a State of Israel - already in existence and intended by God [with a securing of Beth-lehem and [all of] Jerusalem with the timing of his birth] - before the time of his birth - as noted by 'then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel' - it means that there is already a State for him and 'the residue of his family' and 'the children of Israel' to return to. We can see within this last quote [and through the other's so far] that there is a clear allusion to an exisiting Jerusalem and State - to the seeming surprise of God [and the remant of the people who later begin to return] some time before messiah is born - further - we've seen that God is to show-up in anger - which is noted as being - directed toward the nations - for their helping forward the afflictions of His exiled - when He was 'only a little displeased' - so - at the end of the last and worst pogrom [nazi] God indeed 'showed up' to reclaim Jerusalem and - as expected and 'planned' - He was 'surprised' to see some of His exiled - already there and - because He was sore displeased with the nations - for their 'at ease' adventures in the continual pogroms - He was pleased with finding some remant of His exiled there and He thus began the process - for messiah to be born and - coinciding it with the removal of the dividing-line through Jerusalem [in June 1967]: And the word of the LORD of hosts came, saying: 'Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I am jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I am jealous for her with great fury. Thus saith the LORD: I return unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem shall be called The city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts The holy mountain. Thus saith the LORD of hosts: There shall yet old men and old women sit in the broad places of Jerusalem, every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the broad places of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the broad places thereof. Thus saith the LORD of hosts: If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in those days, should it also be marvellous in Mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts. [Zechariah 8.1-6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted May 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 "A Movement for Peace in the Middle East" Here is a 36 second video I did: <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjJ-i4n6BRc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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