Puru_Das Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 A Godbrother following this thread sent me these references, so I am passing them on to you: Following in the Footsteps of Saintly Persons In the Skanda Purana it is advised that a devotee follow the past acaryas and saintly persons, because by such following one can achieve the desired results, with no chance of lamenting or being baffled in his progress. The scripture known as Brahma-yamala states as follows: "If someone wants to pose himself as a great devotee without following the authorities of the revealed scriptures, then his activities will never help him to make progress in devotional service. Instead, he will simply create disturbances for the sincere students of devotional service." Those who do not strictly follow the principles of revealed scriptures are generally called sahajiyas--those who have imagined everything to be cheap, who have their own concocted ideas, and who do not follow the scriptural injunctions. Such persons are simply creating disturbances in the discharge of devotional service. In this connection, an objection may be raised by those who are not in devotional service and who do not care for the revealed scriptures. An example of this is seen in Buddhist philosophy. Lord Buddha appeared in the family of a high-grade ksatriya king, but his philosophy was not in accord with the Vedic conclusions and therefore was rejected. Under the patronage of a Hindu king, Maharaja Asoka, the Buddhist religion was spread all over India and the adjoining countries. However, after the appearance of the great stalwart teacher Sankaracarya, this Buddhism was driven out beyond the borders of India. The Buddhists or other religionists who do not care for revealed scriptures sometimes say that there are many devotees of Lord Buddha who show devotional service to Lord Buddha, and who therefore should be considered devotees. In answer to this argument, Rupa Gosvami says that the followers of Buddha cannot be accepted as devotees. Although Lord Buddha is accepted as an incarnation of Krsna, the followers of such incarnations are not very advanced in their knowledge of the Vedas. To study the Vedas means to come to the conclusion of the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead. Therefore any religious principle which denies the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead is not accepted and is called atheism. Atheism means defying the authority of the Vedas and decrying the great acaryas who teach Vedic scriptures for the benefit of the people in general. Lord Buddha is accepted as an incarnation of Krsna in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, but in the same Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that Lord Buddha appeared in order to bewilder the atheistic class of men. Therefore his philosophy is meant for bewildering the atheists and should not be accepted. If someone asks, "Why should Krsna propagate atheistic principles?" the answer is that it was the desire of the Supreme Personality of Godhead to end the violence which was then being committed in the name of the Vedas. The so-called religionists were falsely using the Vedas to justify such violent acts as meat-eating, and Lord Buddha came to lead the fallen people away from such a false interpretation of the Vedas. Also, for the atheists Lord Buddha preached atheism so that they would follow him and thus be tricked into devotional service to Lord Buddha, or Krsna. HDGACBSP Nectar of Devotion (Summary study of Srila Rupa Gosvami's Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu) SB Canto 8 Ch.3 text 8-12 TEXTS 8-9 na vidyate yasya ca janma karma va na nama-rupe guna-dosa eva va tathapi lokapyaya-sambhavaya yah sva-mayaya tany anukalam rcchati tasmai namah paresaya brahmane 'nanta-saktaye arupayoru-rupaya nama ascarya-karmane SYNONYMS na--not; vidyate--there is; yasya--of whom (the Supreme Personality of Godhead); ca--also; janma--birth; karma--activities; va--or; na--nor; nama-rupe--any material name or material form; guna--qualities; dosah--fault; eva--certainly; va--either; tathapi--still; loka--of this cosmic manifestation; apyaya--who is the destruction; sambhavaya--and creation; yah--He who; sva-mayaya--by His own potency; tani--activities; anukalam--eternally; rcchati--accepts; tasmai--unto Him; namah--I offer my obeisances; para--transcendental; isaya--who is the supreme controller; brahmane--who is the Supreme Brahman (Parabrahman); ananta-saktaye--with unlimited potency; arupaya--possessing no material form; uru-rupaya--possessing various forms as incarnations; namah--I offer my obeisances; ascarya-karmane--whose activities are wonderful. TRANSLATION The Supreme Personality of Godhead has no material birth, activities, name, form, qualities or faults. To fulfill the purpose for which this material world is created and destroyed, He comes in the form of a human being like Lord Rama or Lord Krsna by His original internal potency. He has immense potency, and in various forms, all free from material contamination, He acts wonderfully. He is therefore the Supreme Brahman. I offer my respects to Him. PURPORT In the Visnu Purana it is said, gunams ca dosams ca mune vyatita samasta-kalyana-gunatmako hi. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has no material form, qualities or faults. He is spiritual and is the only reservoir of all spiritual qualities. As stated in Bhagavad-gita (4.8) by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam. The Lord's activities of saving the devotees and annihilating the demons are transcendental. Anyone annihilated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead gets the same result as a devotee who is protected by the Lord; both of them are transcendentally promoted. The only difference is that a devotee goes directly to the spiritual planets and becomes an associate of the Supreme Lord, whereas demons are promoted to brahmaloka, the impersonal effulgence of the Lord. Both of them, however, are transcendentally promoted. The Lord's killing or annihilating of the demons is not exactly like the killing of this material world. Although He appears to act within the modes of material nature, He is nirguna, above the modes of nature. His name is not material; otherwise how could one get liberation by chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Rama? The names of the Lord like Rama and Krsna are nondifferent from the person Rama and Krsna. Thus by chanting the Hare Krsna mantra one constantly associates with Rama and Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and therefore becomes liberated. A practical example is Ajamila, who always remained transcendental to his activities simply by chanting the name Narayana. If this was true of Ajamila, what is to be said of the Supreme Lord? When the Lord comes to this material world, He does not become a product of matter. This is confirmed throughout Bhagavad-gita (janma-karma ca me divyam, avajananti mam mudhah manusim tanum asritam). Therefore, when the Supreme Personality of Godhead--Rama or Krsna--descends to act transcendentally for our benefit, we should not consider Him an ordinary human being. When the Lord comes, He does so on the basis of His spiritual potency (sambhavamy atma-mayaya). Because He is not forced to come by the material energy, He is always transcendental. One should not consider the Supreme Lord an ordinary human being. Material names and forms are contaminated, but spiritual name and spiritual form are transcendental. TEXT 10 nama atma-pradipaya saksine paramatmane namo giram viduraya manasas cetasam api SYNONYMS namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; atma-pradipaya--unto He who is self-effulgent or who gives enlightenment to the living entities; saksine--who is situated in everyone's heart as a witness; parama-atmane--unto the Supreme Soul, the Supersoul; namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; giram--by words; viduraya--who is impossible to reach; manasah--by the mind; cetasam--or by consciousness; api--even. TRANSLATION I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the self-effulgent Supersoul, who is the witness in everyone's heart, who enlightens the individual soul and who cannot be reached by exercises of the mind, words or consciousness. PURPORT The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, cannot be understood by the individual soul through mental, physical or intellectual exercises. It is by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that the individual soul is enlightened. Therefore, the Lord is described here as atma-pradipa. The Lord is like the sun, which illuminates everything and cannot be illuminated by anyone. Therefore, if one is serious about understanding the Supreme, one must receive enlightenment from Him, as instructed in Bhagavad-gita. One cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by one's mental, physical or intellectual powers. TEXT 11 sattvena pratilabhyaya naiskarmyena vipascita namah kaivalya-nathaya nirvana-sukha-samvide SYNONYMS sattvena--by pure devotional service; prati-labhyaya--unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is achieved by such devotional activities; naiskarmyena--by transcendental activities; vipascita--by persons who are sufficiently learned; namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; kaivalya-nathaya--unto the master of the transcendental world; nirvana--for one completely freed from material activities; sukha--of happiness; samvide--who is the bestower. TRANSLATION The Supreme Personality of Godhead is realized by pure devotees who act in the transcendental existence of bhakti-yoga. He is the bestower of uncontaminated happiness and is the master of the transcendental world. Therefore I offer my respect unto Him. PURPORT As stated in Bhagavad-gita, the Supreme Personality of Godhead can be understood only by devotional service. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah. If one wants to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead in truth, one must take to the activities of devotional service. These activities are called sattva or suddha-sattva. In the material world, activities of goodness, which are symptomatic of a pure brahmana, are appreciated. But the activities of devotional service are suddha-sattva; in other words, they are on the transcendental platform. Only by devotional service can one understand the Supreme. Devotional service is called naiskarmya. Mere negation of material activity will not endure. Naiskarmyam apy acyuta-bhava-varjitam. Unless one performs activities with reference to Krsna consciousness, cessation of material activities will not be helpful. In hopes of achieving naiskarmya, freedom from material action, many highly elevated sannyasis stopped their activities, yet they failed and returned to the material platform to act as materialistic persons. But once one is engaged in the spiritual activities of bhakti-yoga, one does not fall down. Our Krsna consciousness movement is therefore an attempt to engage everyone always in spiritual activity, by which one becomes transcendental to material actions. The spiritual activities of bhakti-marga--sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam--lead one to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore, as stated here, sattvena pratilabhyaya naiskarmyena vipascita: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is realized by pure devotees who act in the transcendental existence of bhakti-yoga." The Gopala-tapani Upanisad (15) says, bhaktir asya bhajanam tad ihamutropadhi-nairasyenaivamusmin manasah kalpanam etad eva ca naiskarmyam. This is a definition of naiskarmya. One acts in naiskarmya when he fully engages in Krsna conscious activities without material desires to enjoy, either here or in the upper planetary systems, in the present life or in a future life (iha-amutra). Anyabhilasita-sunyam. When one is freed from all contamination and he acts in devotional service under the direction of the spiritual master, one is on the platform of naiskarma. By such transcendental devotional service, the Lord is served. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Him. TEXT 12 namah santaya ghoraya mudhaya guna-dharmine nirvisesaya samyaya namo jnana-ghanaya ca SYNONYMS namah--all obeisances; santaya--unto He who is above all material qualities and completely peaceful, or unto Vasudeva, the Supersoul in every living entity; ghoraya--unto the fierce forms of the Lord like Jamadagnya and Nrsimhadeva; mudhaya--the form of the Lord as an animal, such as the boar; guna-dharmine--who accepts different qualities within the material world; nirvisesaya--who is without material qualities, being fully spiritual; samyaya--Lord Buddha, the form of nirvana, wherein the material qualities stop; namah--I offer my respectful obeisances; jnana-ghanaya--who is knowledge or the impersonal Brahman; ca--also. TRANSLATION I offer my respectful obeisances to Lord Vasudeva, who is all-pervading, to the Lord's fierce form as Lord Nrsimhadeva, to the Lord's form as an animal [Lord Varahadeva], to Lord Dattatreya, who preached impersonalism, to Lord Buddha, and to all the other incarnations. I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Lord, who has no material qualities but who accepts the three qualities goodness, passion and ignorance within this material world. I also offer my respectful obeisances unto the impersonal Brahman effulgence. PURPORT In the previous verses it has been described that although the Supreme Personality of Godhead has no material form, He accepts innumerable forms to favor His devotees and kill the demons. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, there are so many incarnations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that they are like the waves of a river. The waves of a river flow incessantly, and no one can count how many waves there are. Similarly, no one can calculate when and how the different incarnations of the Lord appear according to the necessities of time, place and candidates. The Lord appears perpetually. As Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (4.7): yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata abhyutthanam adharmasya tadatmanam srjamy aham "Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself." In the material world there is always the possibility of deviation from Krsna consciousness, and therefore Krsna and His devotees always act in various forms to curb such godlessness. Even impersonalists who stress the knowledge feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead want to merge in the effulgence of the Lord. Therefore, here the word jnana-ghanaya indicates that for atheists who disbelieve in the form and existence of the Lord, all these various incarnations appear. Since the Lord comes to teach in so many forms, no one can say that there is no God. The word jnana-ghanaya is especially used here to refer to those whose knowledge has become solidified by dint of their searching for the Lord through speculative philosophical understanding. Superficial knowledge is useless for understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but when one's knowledge becomes extremely intense and deep, one understands Vasudeva (vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah). A jnani attains this stage after many, many births. Therefore the word jnana-ghanaya is used here. The word santaya indicates that Lord Vasudeva is situated in everyone's heart but does not act with the living entity. Impersonalist jnanis realize Vasudeva when they are fully mature in knowledge (vasudevah samam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah). Translation and comentary by HDGACBSP SB Canto 8 Ch.3 text 8-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puru_Das Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 I found this very interesting article: Modern Buddha and Vishnu Avatar Buddha are Different by Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaja http://bvml.org/SBBTM/mbavabad.html excerpt: It is said that Sakyasimha Buddha, the son of Suddhodana and Maya, and Buddha-avatara, the Vaishnavas’ object of adoration, are not one and the same person. Our Most Revered Nityalilapravishta Om Vishnupada 108 Sri Srimad Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada has clearly said, “Sakyasimha Buddha was merely a vastly learned person, so we cannot call him the original Buddha or Lord Buddha.” . . . Thus, Sugata Buddha and Sunyavadi (Sakyasimha) Buddha are not the same person. Further evidence is found in Mr. H.T.Colebrooke’s Amarakosha, published at Ramapura in 1807. It is written in Chapter 21, Page 178 of Lalitavistara-grantha that Gautama Buddha performed penances at the same place as the previous Buddha (Vishnu-avatara Buddha). Maybe it is for this reason that in later ages he and Lord Buddha are considered as being one:" ************************************************* Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura wrote an article titled: Distinct Similarities Between Buddha and Sankara Acarya Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Rays of The Harmonist Vol. 2 No. 2 http://www.purebhakti.com/library/rays_index.shtml Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja also explained similar points in his book Vaisnava Vijaya. He said that Sripad Sankaracarya allowed the confusion with regard to Lord Buddha, to go on because the Buddhist nihilistic philosophy was a convenient basis on which he could preach mayavada philosophy. This article appears in Rays of the Harmonist: Two Separate Opinions On Buddha Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja Rays of The Harmonist Vol. 2 No. 1 http://www.purebhakti.com/library/rays_index.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puru_Das Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Apparantly the index on purebhakti has a mistake on line. The author of Distinct Similarities Between Buddha and Sankara Acarya is Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja and not SBSST. Rays of The Harmonist Vol. 2 No. 2 http://www.purebhakti.com/library/rays_index.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raghu Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Some of the advaitin arguments on this thread are blatantly hilarious. I especially liked the one that says, "Vaishnavas cannot defeat Advaita because Vaishnava believe the name, form, etc of Vishnu are real and eternal." Yes, and another way of saying that is "You cannot defeat me because you hold beliefs that oppose mine." Uh-huh.... After that, we have Advaitins daring Vaishnavas to say anything against Advaita, and the moment the Vaishnavas start quoting from shruti or smriti, then suddenly "no no no, you can debate with us but you can't quote scripture!" We have some real Voltaires in this group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puru_Das Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 At this point Sannyasi Thakura with folded hands said, “Prabhu, I am constantly witnessing the super-excellence of the spotless vaisnava-dharma which Sri Sacinandana has revealed, and I have clearly realized the contemptible nature of Sankaracarya’s monisticdoctrine. Still, something has come to my mind, which I feel I must submit to you; I don’t want to hide it. I understand that mahabhava, which was displayed by Sri Caitanya, is the highest state of concentrated prema. Is it different from the attainment of the perfection of absolute oneness (advaita-siddhi)?” When Paramahamsa Babaji heard the name of Sri Sankaracarya, he offered prostrated obeisances unto the acarya and said, “Respected sir, sankarah sankarah saksat: ’Sankaracarya is none other than Mahadeva-Sankara, or Sivaji.’ You should always remember this. Sankara is guru for the Vaisnavas, and for this reason Mahaprabhu has referred to him as acarya (spiritual preceptor). For his own part, Sri Sankara was a perfect Vaisnava. “At the time Sri Sankara’s appeared in India, there was a great need for a guna-avatara like him, an incarnation who presides over the qualities of material nature. The study of the Vedic sastras and the practice of varnasrama-dharma had become practically extinct in India due to the influence of sunyavada (voidism), the nihilistic Buddhist philosophy. Sunyavada is vehemently opposed to the personal conception of Bhagavan. Although it partially accepts the principle of the living being’s identity as a conscious, spiritual soul (jivatma), it is an extreme example of anitya-dharma(impermanent religion). The brahmanas of that era had abandoned the Vedic dharma and had in effect all become Buddhists. At that point, Sankaracarya appeared as an extremely powerful incarnation of Mahadeva. He re-established the credibility of the Vedic literatures and converted the sunyavada doctrine of voidism into the brahmavada doctrine of nirvisesa (featureless) brahma. This was an extraordinary feat, and India will remain ever indebted to Sri Sankaracarya for this tremendous contribution. “All activities in this world fall into one of two categories: some are relative to a particular period of time, and some are applicable for all time. The work of Sankaracarya was relative to a particular period and bestowed tremendous benefit. Sankaracarya laid the foundation upon which great acaryas such as Sri Ramanujacarya erected the edifice of pure vaisnava-dharma. Consequently, Sankaravatara was a great friend and preceptor who pioneered vaisnava-dharma. “Vaisnavas are now reaping the fruit of Sankaracarya’s philosophical precepts. For the jivas who are bound by matter, there is a great need for sambandha-jnana, knowledge of the soul’s entanglement in material nature and of his relationship with Bhagavan. Sankaracarya and the Vaisnavas both accept that the sentient living entities in this material world are completely distinct and separate from their gross and subtle material bodies, that the jivasare spiritually existent, and that liberation (mukti) entails giving up all connection with this material world. Consequently, there is a great deal of agreement between the doctrine of Sankara and that of the Vaisnava acaryas, up to the point of liberation. Sankara has even taught that the worship of Sri Hari is the method by which one can purify the heart and attain liberation. He has only remained silent regarding what extraordinary destination the jiva attains after liberation. “Sankara knew perfectly well that if the jivas could be prompted to strive for liberation through the worship of Hari, they would gradually become attached to the pleasure of bhajana and thus become suddha-bhaktas, pure devotees. That is why he simply pointed out the path and didn’t reveal further confidential secrets of vaisnava-dharma. Those who have scrutinized the commentaries of Sankara can understand his inner intention, but those who are only preoccupied with the external aspect of his teachings remain far from the threshold of vaisnava-dharma. “From one specific point of view, the perfected state of absolute oneness (advaita-siddhi) seems identical to prema. However, the narrow interpretation of absolute oneness is certainly different from the meaning of prema. What is prema? You should understand clearly that prema is the unadulterated function by which two transcendental entities are spontaneously attracted to each other. Prema cannot occur without the separate existence of two transcendental entities. Krsna-prema is the dharma by which all transcendental entities are eternally attracted to the supreme transcendent Entity, Sri Krsnacandra. The ideology of prema rests on the eternally established truths that Krsnacandra has His own eternal, separate existence, and that the jivas have their own eternal, separate existence, following His leadership (anugatya); and that this prema-tattva is also an eternally perfect truth (nityasiddha- tattva). The distinct presence of three seperate ingredients– the relisher, the object of relish, and the act of relishing – is a fact. If the relisher of prema and the object of relish are one and the same, then prema cannot be an eternal reality. “We can say that absolute oneness or advaita-siddhi is the same as prema if we define advaita-siddhi as the pure state of a transcendental entity who has no relationship with insentient matter. This conception of advaita-siddhi implies oneness in the sense that spiritual entities have become one in their spiritual nature and function (cid-dharma). However, modern scholars who have adopted the doctrine of Sankara are not satisfied with this idea, and they have tried to establish that spiritual entities, cid-vastu have themselves become indistinguishably one and the same substance. In so doing, they have disregarded the true Vedic conception of non-distinction and have propagated a distorted version in its place. Vaisnavas declare this philosophy to be opposed to the Vedas because it denies the eternality of prema. “Sankaracarya described the state of non-distinction simply as the unadulterated condition of spiritual substance. However, his modern-day followers could not understand his inner intention, and consequently they have marred their guru’s reputation by teaching a thoroughly debased doctrine known as Mayavada, which describes the various states of prema as illusory phenomena. “Mayavadis deny from the very outset that anything exists except the one spiritual substance (brahma), and they also deny that the function of prema exists within that spiritual substance. They claim that brahma is beyond the influence of maya as long as it remains in a state of oneness, but that brahma becomes overwhelmed by maya when it becomes embodied and takes on various shapes in the form of jivas. Consequently, they believe that the form of Bhagavan is an illusory manifestation. In reality, though, His form is eternally pure and constituted of concentrated consciousness. For this reason, they have concluded that prema and its various manifestations are illusory, and that the knowledge of non-duality (advaita-jnana) is beyond the influence of maya. Their mistaken conception of advaita-siddhi or oneness can never be equated with prema. “Sri Caitanyadeva instructed the world to taste prema, and He personally taught it by His transcendental behavior and activities. This prema is completely beyond the jurisdiction of maya, and it is the highest development of the unalloyed state of perfect oneness (advaita-siddhi). The state known as mahabhava is a special transformation of this prema, in which premananda is extraordinarily powerful. Consequently, both the separateness and intimate relationship of the lover and the beloved are transported to an unprecedented state. The inconsequential theory of Mayavada is useless for understanding the subject matter of prema in any of its stages.” Sannyasi Thakura said with great reverence, “O Prabhu, My heart is deeply pierced with the realization that the Mayavada doctrine is most insignificant. Today, you have mercifully dispelled whatever lingering doubts I had in this regard. I feel a strong desire to give up wearing this Mayavada sannyasa garb.” Babaji Mahasaya said, “O Mahatma, I never give instruction on external dress. When the dharma or spiritual function of the heart becomes purified, the external dress will be set right easily and naturally. Where there is too much concern for external appearance, there is inattention to the soul’s inner function. When your heart becomes pure, you will automatically develop attachment for the external behavior of Vaisnavas, and there will be no fault if you change your external dress then. Absorb your heart completely in trying to follow the teachings of Sri Krsna Caitanya, and later you may adopt the external items of vaisnava-dharma to which you are naturally inclined. You should always remember this instruction of Sriman Mahaprabhu: markata-vairagya na kara loka dekhana yathayogya visaya bhunja’ anasakta hana antare nistha kara, bahye loka-vyavahara acirat krsna tomaya karibe uddhara Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya (16.238-239) Do not adopt markata-vairagya (external, monkey renunciation) simply to impress the general populace. You should accept without attachment whatever sense objects are appropriate for maintaining your devotional practices and give up all material desires within your heart. Internally develop staunch faith in Sri Krsna and externally carry out your worldly responsibilities in such a way that no one can detect your inner mood. If you act like this, Sri Krsna will very quickly deliver you from material existence. from: http://bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/02.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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