Being Humble

[Pankaja_Dasa]

I find it easy to be humble for a while. But anger always gets the better of me. I's a matter of time. I can be humble for 5 mins. And be angry for 2. So 3 mins is there. I cannot strench it so much. I find it impossible to be contantly humble. I get angry at people, anybody have any pointers?

[Avinash]

 

I get angry at people, anybody have any pointers?

You have written that you get angry at people. Do you mean that you express anger or do you mean that you just feel anger easily though may not express it?

[Gaea]

 

I find it easy to be humble for a while. But anger always gets the better of me. I's a matter of time. I can be humble for 5 mins. And be angry for 2. So 3 mins is there. I cannot strench it so much. I find it impossible to be contantly humble. I get angry at people, anybody have any pointers?

 

recently one of the more senior devotees on this forum - can't remmeber who and which thread now - said something very nice on the point of anger and humility. The gist of it was that Bhakti, true love and devotion, automatically seeds all good qualities. You don't have to look for sepcific methods for anything because love is the seed.

[vijay]

Anger,hate,depression,envy are a warning mechinism set by krishna flagging an excessive attachment to matter.

 

Anger comes about because of expectation of someone or something, attachment to reputation etc. Its due to 'I' conciousness rather than Krishna conciousness.

 

Envy comes about because we want something, hate comes about because we expected something of someone but that dream was shattered by them. Rather than have compasion as conditioned spirit soul we have hate.

 

All these negative emotions are krsna's signs, they give us the opportunity to introspect and find the cause of what we are attached to and then re-align our perspective towards reality (Krishna) rather than our false identity.

[Guest guest]

Is it possible to avoid certain situations that seem to trigger the strong emotions? I'm thinking of a cartoon I saw in the New Yorker magazine:

 

Two friends were in the living room having a contentious discussion. One

friend was ranting and the other friend was, "Now, now, the Dalai Lama

told us not to become angry..."

 

The ranting friend replied, "But the Dalai Lama did not have to put up with

your constant yammering!!!"

[stonehearted]

There's a difference between behaving humbly and actually seeing oneself as utterly subordinate to the Lord and His devotees. The former, which we may or may not be able to sustain for long periods of time in earlier stages of practice, will help us advance our sadhana and become more receptive to to the Lord's mercy. The latter is the state of mind of someone making significant spiritual advancement. As Swami B. V. Tripurari writes in his commentary on Siksastakam:

Humility arising from the soul is a natural by-product of spiritual advancement. It begins to manifest at the stage of niñöhä. In niñöhitäbhajana-kriyä the finite soul approaches the door of the infinite. Above the door a sign reads, kértanéyaù sadä hariù: “Always chant the name of Hari,” and the doormat to this threshold says, su-nécena: “Be humble.” At this junction between time and eternity—the finite and the infinite—a natural humility arises, as what it actually means to be finite is glimpsed for the first time. Here finite is no longer a word but a realization, as is the humility it fosters. In his Çikñäñöakam commentary, Öhäkura Bhaktivinoda describes this condition as innate humility arising out of complete detachment from sense enjoyment.

 

[mahak]

Nothing we can do about it, it is like the sun or the rain, comes on its own. Our responsibility is in Bhagavad gita, we must control, not anger, but the actions of anger.

 

A fictional character (from http://www.geocities.com/mahaksadasa/k1.html) from an old novel I wrote sums it up like this:

 

"Anger is like the fiyeh, like the wind. It comes and goes as it pleases, from soul to soul, to see if anyone will invite him to stay. No one is held responsible by the One God for Anger stalking their neighborhoods, ringing their doorbells. In fact, O Jahovia is pleased by His Own when they live freely without fearing this demon. But, to invite him into your house will surely burn it down and blow it's contents to all corners of the world. Anger, when turned away as you have always done, comes by less frequently. You say you are sorry, I say you are most fortunate to have so little of his attention."

 

So, when anger comes, give it its due, like the sunny day, like the hurricane or the volcano, but dont get all wrapped up in it, just say, "Im angry", then let it go.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

There's a difference between behaving humbly and actually seeing oneself as utterly subordinate to the Lord and His devotees. The former, which we may or may not be able to sustain for long periods of time in earlier stages of practice, will help us advance our sadhana and become more receptive to to the Lord's mercy. The latter is the state of mind of someone making significant spiritual advancement. As Swami B. V. Tripurari writes in his commentary on Siksastakam:

 

 

The Quote was very nice indeed. Reminds me of the Tatasta Shakti, between the spiritual world and material universe. And the choices we made, whether to be humble and surrender or not. Humlity must then be a very great quality to nuture indeed.

[gHari]

Mundane attachment leads to lust, then to anger when not satisfied. It's part of the rajo-guna process.

 

Understanding its source, one can see it objectively. To treat it scientifically, start here: http://vedabase.net/bg/2/62/en and let the mundane desire for name and fame fall away.

 

Avoid this gate to hell; don't relish it: http://vedabase.net/k/krodhah

[Guest guest]

 

There's a difference between behaving humbly and actually seeing oneself as utterly subordinate to the Lord and His devotees. The former, which we may or may not be able to sustain for long periods of time in earlier stages of practice, will help us advance our sadhana and become more receptive to to the Lord's mercy. The latter is the state of mind of someone making significant spiritual advancement. As Swami B. V. Tripurari writes in his commentary on Siksastakam:

 

 

 

Humility arising from the soul is a natural by-product of spiritual advancement. It begins to manifest at the stage of niñöhä. In niñöhitäbhajana-kriyä the finite soul approaches the door of the infinite. Above the door a sign reads, kértanéyaù sadä hariù: “Always chant the name of Hari,” and the doormat to this threshold says, su-nécena: “Be humble.” At this junction between time and eternity—the finite and the infinite—a natural humility arises, as what it actually means to be finite is glimpsed for the first time. Here finite is no longer a word but a realization, as is the humility it fosters. In his Çikñäñöakam commentary, Öhäkura Bhaktivinoda describes this condition as innate humility arising out of complete detachment from sense enjoyment.

 

 

 

 

When the finite jiva dovetails into the infinite, the jiva becomes non-different than the infinite.

At that time, the actual realization of finiteness becomes lost.

 

As such, humility arises more out of the feeling of the sense of being blessed than it does from the sense of finiteness.

 

Without realization of infinite grace and mercy, there can be no real humility simply out of feeling finite.

Humbleness comes out of sense of being unlimitedly blessed without qualification more so than a simple feeling of being finite.

 

Feeling finite without feeling the blessings of grace and mercy cannot make a jiva humble.

 

It's the feeling of being blessed without qualification or capacity that really renders the heart humble, more so than just feeling really small and finite.

 

Real detachment is actualized in the refusal to accept profit, adoration or distinction in the service of the Lord.

[saidevo]

 

I find it easy to be humble for a while. But anger always gets the better of me. I's a matter of time. I can be humble for 5 mins. And be angry for 2. So 3 mins is there. I cannot strench it so much. I find it impossible to be contantly humble. I get angry at people, anybody have any pointers?

 

Emotions have colors. Not just theoretically, but in reality. Sustained anger, for example, generates a reddish spike targetted at the source of your anger. If that source has a sympathetic vibration in his/her astral body, the colors adds to the dullness of it. Or else, it returns to you with a double force and muddies your astral body.

 

The astral body is where our emotions manifest. It is this body that you use as the vehicle of consciousness in clear dreams. The more healthy colors you add to this body, the lesser you will be affected by negative emotions.

 

This book might be of help:

'Thoughtforms' by Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater, downloadable at anandgholap.net

[Guest guest]

Pankaja_Dasa:

 

also I have hot temper, that are easy lost and i may burst out in irretation etc.. one thing i do when i feel my bad temper awakens is this..

 

if its easy irritation, i just swallow it and say to myself i WONT get angry, and try to sing to get in a better mode, and tell people not to bother me, that please leave me alon because im in a bad mode today..

 

if its a really bad mode, i start to sing the nrisimhadev song, and ask Nrisimhadev to rip aprat hiranyakasipu that sits in my heart and mind, that Srí Ram will shoot His arrows at Ravana in my mind.. and I sing and sing until i feel happy again.. also i think about my siksa guru that never become angry.. and that i try to be like him..

 

this is how i do, maybe it works for u to.. try..

 

hope u will get rid of ur bad temper prabhu!

[vijay]

 

When the finite jiva dovetails into the infinite, the jiva becomes non-different than the infinite.

At that time, the actual realization of finiteness becomes lost.

 

As such, humility arises more out of the feeling of the sense of being blessed than it does from the sense of finiteness.

 

Without realization of infinite grace and mercy, there can be no real humility simply out of feeling finite.

Humbleness comes out of sense of being unlimitedly blessed without qualification more so than a simple feeling of being finite.

 

Feeling finite without feeling the blessings of grace and mercy cannot make a jiva humble.

 

It's the feeling of being blessed without qualification or capacity that really renders the heart humble, more so than just feeling really small and finite.

 

Real detachment is actualized in the refusal to accept profit, adoration or distinction in the service of the Lord.

 

This is nice did you get this from somewhere?

[gHari]

From Nectar of Instruction 1:

 

Similarly, anger can be controlled. We cannot stop anger altogether, but if we simply become angry with those who blaspheme the Lord or the devotees of the Lord, we control our anger in KRSNa consciousness. Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu became angry with the miscreant brothers JagAi and MAdhAi, who blasphemed and struck NityAnanda Prabhu. In His SikSASTaka Lord Caitanya wrote, tRNAd api sunIcena taror api sahiSNunA: "One should be humbler than the grass and more tolerant than the tree." One may then ask why the Lord exhibited His anger. The point is that

one should be ready to tolerate all insults to one's own self, but when KRSNa or His pure devotee is blasphemed, a genuine devotee becomes angry and acts like fire against the offenders. Krodha, anger, cannot be stopped, but it can be applied rightly. It was in anger that HanumAn set fire to LaGkA, but he is worshiped as the greatest devotee of Lord RAmacandra. This means that he utilized his anger in the right way

. Arjuna serves as another example. He was not willing to fight, but KRSNa incited his anger: "You must fight!" To fight without anger is not possible. Anger is controlled, however, when utilized in the service of the Lord.

 

[vijay]

 

From Nectar of Instruction 1:

 

Similarly, anger can be controlled. We cannot stop anger altogether, but if we simply become angry with those who blaspheme the Lord or the devotees of the Lord, we control our anger in KRSNa consciousness. Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu became angry with the miscreant brothers JagAi and MAdhAi, who blasphemed and struck NityAnanda Prabhu. In His SikSASTaka Lord Caitanya wrote, tRNAd api sunIcena taror api sahiSNunA: "One should be humbler than the grass and more tolerant than the tree." One may then ask why the Lord exhibited His anger. The point is that

one should be ready to tolerate all insults to one's own self, but when KRSNa or His pure devotee is blasphemed, a genuine devotee becomes angry and acts like fire against the offenders. Krodha, anger, cannot be stopped, but it can be applied rightly. It was in anger that HanumAn set fire to LaGkA, but he is worshiped as the greatest devotee of Lord RAmacandra. This means that he utilized his anger in the right way

. Arjuna serves as another example. He was not willing to fight, but KRSNa incited his anger: "You must fight!" To fight without anger is not possible. Anger is controlled, however, when utilized in the service of the Lord.

 

 

A few of us talked about anger recently, I think sometimes this is abused in justification for feeling angry.

Anger is caused because of an excessive attachment to something.

In the case of Hunuman and Arjuna they were excessively attached 100% to the lord, and thus their anger is trancendental. However most of us are attached to mundane things and get angery due to excessive attachment to matter and subtle misconceptions, this is degrading as its in the mode of ignorance. To the degree we are krishna concious attached to krishna then that much our anger is trancendental.

If im 5% KC and 95% attached to matter then more than likely my anger isnt due to transendental attachment to the lord and tinged with matter. Thats why in the gita in many places krishna and prabhupada have warned us against mundane anger as one of the gates leading to hell.

If one is in the begining stages and in the mode of passion and can not currently restrict it then better he engage it someohow in krishnas service yukta vairagya, but to advance one must be careful where that anger is coming from as most of the time the source is mundane. Even sometimes in the name of protecting devotees the above quote can be abused as the anger is not actually in the service of the lord but may be in service of our ego or other subtle secterian reasons not really intended to benifit the abuser or abused.

[Guest guest]

 

From [=Similarly, anger can be controlled. We cannot stop anger altogether, but if we simply become angry with those who blaspheme the Lord or the devotees of the Lord, we control our anger in KRSNa consciousness. Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu became angry with the miscreant brothers JagAi and MAdhAi, who blasphemed and struck NityAnanda Prabhu. In His SikSASTaka Lord Caitanya wrote, tRNAd api sunIcena taror api sahiSNunA: "One should be humbler than the grass and more tolerant than the tree." One may then ask why the Lord exhibited His anger. The point is that one should be ready to tolerate all insults to one's own self, but when KRSNa or His pure devotee is blasphemed, a genuine devotee becomes angry and acts like fire against the offenders. Krodha, anger, cannot be stopped, but it can be applied rightly. It was in anger that HanumAn set fire to LaGkA, but he is worshiped as the greatest devotee of Lord RAmacandra. This means that he utilized his anger in the right way. Arjuna serves as another example. He was not willing to fight, but KRSNa incited his anger: "You must fight!" To fight without anger is not possible. Anger is controlled, however, when utilized in the service of the Lord.

 

Dont mislead this guy comparing his anger to people like Hanuman or Arjuna,they were in a different plane,infact Arjuna also cannot be compared with Hanuman,Arjuna had a huge ego which almost made him kill himself twice,once by Hanuman smashing his bridge built by arrows when he ridiculed the vanaras and then when Jayadrada killed his son,so anger,ego and hatred in any form isnt good.

You should get into anger management therapy or else you will be sick for a long time.Or try to take your anger on stronger people and they might teach you a lesson that you will control your anger the next time

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

A few of us talked about anger recently, I think sometimes this is abused in justification for feeling angry.

Anger is caused because of an excessive attachment to something.

In the case of Hunuman and Arjuna they were excessively attached 100% to the lord, and thus their anger is trancendental. However most of us are attached to mundane things and get angery due to excessive attachment to matter and subtle misconceptions, this is degrading as its in the mode of ignorance. To the degree we are krishna concious attached to krishna then that much our anger is trancendental.

If im 5% KC and 95% attached to matter then more than likely my anger isnt due to transendental attachment to the lord and tinged with matter. Thats why in the gita in many places krishna and prabhupada have warned us against mundane anger as one of the gates leading to hell.

If one is in the begining stages and in the mode of passion and can not currently restrict it then better he engage it someohow in krishnas service yukta vairagya, but to advance one must be careful where that anger is coming from as most of the time the source is mundane. Even sometimes in the name of protecting devotees the above quote can be abused as the anger is not actually in the service of the lord but may be in service of our ego or other subtle secterian reasons not really intended to benifit the abuser or abused.

 

If somebody says something against Prabhupada is makes me angry, or if somebody says I have nothing to do with Prabhupada it makes me even more angry. So far never happened face-to-face. Since I have a lot of anger concentrated within my body, God help that person. Nowadays even devotees say things like this (you have nothing to do with Prabhupada), so for me the best way is just to avoid such people. Or just let it pass me by. If devotees say it, then what to speak of non-devotees? I can't think of a bigger offence to a devotee then to say he has nothing to do with his Guru. Also false-incarnations of God make me angry. (Sai Baba). I guess Krishna provides a recourse for anger when it's the right time.

[vijay]

 

If somebody says something against Prabhupada is makes me angry, or if somebody says I have nothing to do with Prabhupada it makes me even more angry. So far never happened face-to-face. Since I have a lot of anger concentrated within my body, God help that person. Nowadays even devotees say things like this (you have nothing to do with Prabhupada), so for me the best way is just to avoid such people. Or just let it pass me by. If devotees say it, then what to speak of non-devotees? I can't think of a bigger offence to a devotee then to say he has nothing to do with his Guru. Also false-incarnations of God make me angry. (Sai Baba). I guess Krishna provides a recourse for anger when it's the right time.

 

 

 

I get angry sometimes when someone says something about prabhupada, (by the way we are doing his vyas puja tomorrow (-: ), however this anger is not based on pure motives. Prabhupada or krishna doesnt need to be defended by me neither do i know their real greatness, usually its our egos we are defending. If we do debate someone it should be done out of compassion, and purification of the other person this will purify us and them.

 

If a drunk started slating the guru parampara, i would be stupid to try and defeat the drunk, I would understand that he is not thinking straight and try and rectify him in a way and when he can understand. If a conditioned illusioned intellectual said something about the guru parampara, its the same thing as the drunk, this guy just has a different type of conditioning and needs to be rectified for his benefit in another way. All these souls are lost servants of Krishna, uncontrolled anger without compassion is usually food to the ego and reinforces the illusion. If we cant be compassionate then better to keep it short and walk away, as anger will cloud the mind/intelligence and usually bring out a negative effect.

 

Even sai baba, these guys are just a product of another type of conditioning by the modes, and when preaching to them depending on how they can best learn we should be cutting for their own good and loving when we need to be. Its easy to get caught up and think we are better than them this will keep us in the material world longer, the correct way to think is that we could of been in that situation but by the grace of the devotees we were saved, in that mood we may save others. Anger is a tool that should be in our control in the loving compassionate service of mahaprabhu, not something that controls us. A devotee is only angry on the surface for the rectification of others, just like a mother only shows anger at the child not out of hate but love. Arjuna fought due to love for krishna and hunman burned down ravanas kingdom to please lord ram, anger used in lord rams service, hanuman would never of done that if it displeased lord ram.

 

I recently got a whole load of quotes from prabhupada about anger and could see how devotees usually take and interpret the quotes in their own way, prabhupada said many things about anger and he usually qualifies when anger can be used and how, he sometimes gives different instructions to beginners as they may not be able to do the ideal, however its good to get a grip with the ladder so we know where we are and what we should aim for.

 

If one is going to get angry anyway then better to engage it in Krishna’s service, however they should eventually try and curb it.

 

Some people use pure devotees as justification for anger like when prabhupada got angry or hanuman or Arjuna. However our anger and their anger are qualitatively different.

 

“As the Lord is not affected by the modes of material nature, so a pure devotee of the Lord is also not affected by the modes of nature. That is the primary qualification of being one with the Lord. A person who is able to attain this transcendental qualification is called jivanmukta, or liberated, even though he is apparently in material conditions.”

S.B. 3.4.31

 

Even though he appears to be in the material world, he is not affected by the miseries of the material world...Those who are sadhavah, or devotees engaged in Krsna consciousness in the transcendental service of the Lord, do not feel the contamination of material miseries, whereas those who are not devotees in Krsna consciousness actually feel the miseries of material existence.”

S.B. 3.25.24

 

Letter to Tamal Krsna, June 1970, from Los Angeles

 

“An ignorant person may see that a devotee is acting or working like an ordinary man, but such a person with a poor fund of knowledge does not know that the activities of the devotee or of the Lord are not contaminated by impure consciousness or matter. They are transcendental to the three modes of material nature."

“Even a most learned scholar cannot understand the activities and symptoms of an exalted personality in whose heart love of Godhead has awakened.”

“A Vaisnava is always protected by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if he appears to be an invalid, this gives a chance to his disciples to serve him.”

[gHari]

http://vedabase.net/bg/7/24/en

[Guest guest]

 

If somebody says something against Prabhupada is makes me angry, or if somebody says I have nothing to do with Prabhupada it makes me even more angry. So far never happened face-to-face. Since I have a lot of anger concentrated within my body, God help that person. Nowadays even devotees say things like this (you have nothing to do with Prabhupada), so for me the best way is just to avoid such people. Or just let it pass me by. If devotees say it, then what to speak of non-devotees? I can't think of a bigger offence to a devotee then to say he has nothing to do with his Guru. Also false-incarnations of God make me angry. (Sai Baba). I guess Krishna provides a recourse for anger when it's the right time.

 

 

Now ur being a hypocrite here,if Prabupada is so sacred to u then so is Saibaba to his devotees,without knowing him fully u cant just go and say he is fake.If a Sai Devotee hears this im sure he will be talking with his folks whether his anger is justified against u and vice versa.Quit this habit of who is good and who is bad,u dont have the wisdom or knowledge to judge anyone,Prabupada feels whatever he says is right,sai feels he is god,but who knows whats the real truth,just because u like Prabupada u cant say Sai is fake or just cause Sai devotees feel he is god they cant say Prabupadas teaching is wrong.Neither of u should judge each other,this is like 2 politicians abusing each other claiming one is superior over the other

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Now ur being a hypocrite here,if Prabupada is so sacred to u then so is Saibaba to his devotees,without knowing him fully u cant just go and say he is fake.If a Sai Devotee hears this im sure he will be talking with his folks whether his anger is justified against u and vice versa.Quit this habit of who is good and who is bad,u dont have the wisdom or knowledge to judge anyone,Prabupada feels whatever he says is right,sai feels he is god,but who knows whats the real truth,just because u like Prabupada u cant say Sai is fake or just cause Sai devotees feel he is god they cant say Prabupadas teaching is wrong.Neither of u should judge each other,this is like 2 politicians abusing each other claiming one is superior over the other

 

 

Sai Baba claims to be God (His part), Vishnu-tattva. Is he mentioned in the scriptures? No/ Have Vaishnava's confirmed he is a Vishnu-tattva? No.

 

How are we to know who is Vishnu-tattva (God)? There is only two ways, either He shows His true Form. Or He is revealed in the Scriptures. If He cannot reveal according to Scripture He can show His Form (not some magic trick). Either way it's confirmation.

 

If on the basis of a few tricks one can claim to be Vishnu-tattva? Then where is the authority of the Scriptures? This means anybody can claim to be an incarnation. And we have no authority to prove otherwise.

[Guest guest]

 

Sai Baba claims to be God (His part), Vishnu-tattva. Is he mentioned in the scriptures? No/ Have Vaishnava's confirmed he is a Vishnu-tattva? No.

 

How are we to know who is Vishnu-tattva (God)? There is only two ways, either He shows His true Form. Or He is revealed in the Scriptures. If He cannot reveal according to Scripture He can show His Form (not some magic trick). Either way it's confirmation.

 

If on the basis of a few tricks one can claim to be Vishnu-tattva? Then where is the authority of the Scriptures? This means anybody can claim to be an incarnation. And we have no authority to prove otherwise.

 

 

Trust me i never ever considered him as GOD or anything,but my question to u was if he hasnt proved anything as per scriptures so hasnt Prabupada proved that he is the bonafide and the perfect GURU that his disciples and he claim to be,cause most of his talks including his theories that other gods r demigods seem to be indicating that he tends to make Visnu superior and others inferior,but u all seem to hail him.

As far Baba do u know his devotees say that u and i or anyone who questions his godly nature have 2 much ego that covers our eyes,same concept that is told here when one asks where is god,so with this kinda vague theories anyoene can fool people,either the theories get stronger or god himself tells someting more concrete and clear or accept the aethist views,it cant be that all answers r correct in their own way.

If a guy has been getting away for decades calling himself god then i dont know what GOD wouldnt tolerate?