holy texts

[Guest guest]

if sufis, muslim mystics can accept our texts as divine, why cant vaisnavas accept muslim books as divine? this for me shows that sufis are more elevated then vaisnavas that can accept others scriptures as divine and are going out with the message that God is the same in all faiths.. without saying Allah is better then Krsna.. we should learn from them!

[Guest guest]

Az yak chiragh kaba-o-butkhana roshan ast.

 

arabic for, the same lamp that lights up the ka´ba,lights up the temple.. the lamp is reffering to God

 

***

 

"What is your opinion about the holy books from the Hindu Religion?"

A renowned dervish of Delhi, Hazrat Mirza Mazhar Jaan e Jana, Shaheed (Mayrty) used to say, “the Vedas are Divine (Ilhami) books.” The saints of the Gudri Shahi order have studied the Bhagavad-gita in great depth and have benefited from it.

[Guest guest]

the only one i have heard from quotes like this is swamis, caitanya and prabhupada.. they say that God is God in all faiths.. maybe we should learn something from this!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Prabhupada never had anything against Muslims. But the problem is (we have the same problem). Muslims or anybody else practicing are Just starting out like the rest of us. So they may or may not be the 'way people are when they start out'. Possibly 99% of Muslims and Vaishnava's are starting out here. So we can't really say much on the subject. Of course they believe their own Faith (and why shouldn’t they). They generally condemn Form (Mayavadis do the same, advaitins etc).

 

Still though it's not easy liking Impersonalists (I don't like Mayavadis or Advatins). not the people just their Doctrine. Maybe I should be indifferent. (i am usually). Best not to preach on forums to Muslims unless they want to hear. In one lecture of Prabhupada, one Muslim says Sufis are actually true Muslims. I'm not sure if Prabhupada agreed or not. Qu'ran is almost totally gliding towards Impersonal aspect, with a little Personalisim (Mahaprabhu says this not me!). Anyway, hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

for one thiung, i didnt say that prabhupada had anything against muslims..

 

why dont u like mayavadi doctrine?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Yes.

 

Mayavadis want to merge and loose thier individual exsistance. That's why 'I' don't like it.

[Guest guest]

but thats their choice, why waste energy ´bout not liking it?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

True. Only I say something if they say something. I don't surf Mayavadis forums lol.. looking for fights. hehe, I don't hate them (i used to). Now I see them as part of Sanatana-dharma. And plus I am not qualifed to speak with them. (you have to be a dog). To do it. I am a human being.

[Guest guest]

 

True. Only I say something if they say something. I don't surf Mayavadis forums lol.. looking for fights. hehe, I don't hate them (i used to). Now I see them as part of Sanatana-dharma. And plus I am not qualifed to speak with them. (you have to be a dog). To do it. I am a human being.

 

 

To classify anyone as a dog simply because they believe something you don't seems like a bestial quality to me.

 

There are some beliefs that are deserving of such contempt, but when it comes to religion, politics, etc. everyone is different and their views should be respected as long as it doesn't deal with hatred or contempt. Your own opinions do not fall into the latter categories, therefore it, in my opinion, is deserving of contempt.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

To classify anyone as a dog simply because they believe something you don't seems like a bestial quality to me.

 

There are some beliefs that are deserving of such contempt, but when it comes to religion, politics, etc. everyone is different and their views should be respected as long as it doesn't deal with hatred or contempt. Your own opinions do not fall into the latter categories, therefore it, in my opinion, is deserving of contempt.

 

Whatever.

[Guest guest]

can someone then tell me why many personalist dislike/hate inpersonalists? never got that part.. because they dont hate personalists.. so why repay them with hatred..? they worship God in His formless thingy (forgot the word, sorry).. nirguna, parambrahma or sumthing.. but why hate? that only shows that they are more elevated then us then..

[gHari]

The contempt is for the offense to Sri Krsna Himself, denying His very life and being, the very basis of existence itself. Perhaps pity is more appropriate.

 

Again, as with all real preaching, the only solution is to perfect our own relationship with Sri Krsna to demonstrate the Truth to the world. Words themselves will not win hearts. We must give them Krsna, then they will say 'Yes, this is it. I've been searching for Krsna all this time. Here can I repose all my love at last'.

[Guest guest]

What r u talking about,Vaishavaites cant even accept Lord Shiva as a god then where is the question of accepting muslim scripts..

[Guest guest]

still, i hold the arabic phrase bismillah al-rahman al-rahim in my heart.. in sufi tradition God forgive ALL sins, why wont Krsna do that.. that sumthing is offencive to God, let that be between them and dont intefer.. let God deal with them, God is alpowerfull and dont need our help to decide whats offencive or not..

[gHari]

How can a force forgive sins?

[Guest guest]

and how can a force be offended? im not a impersonalist.. but i dont hate or think bad bout anybodys other views of God, may it be a force or whatever.. i just dont understand why hate people with other views etc

[Guest guest]

What one accepts or not is not important. What is the fact, that is important.

 

 

What r u talking about,Vaishavaites cant even accept Lord Shiva as a god then where is the question of accepting muslim scripts..

[Guest guest]

and what is fact? that all are wrong bout God exept vaisnavas? or that God is God, in ALL religion!? i have found my way unto God, and its in form of mysticism.. a blend of sufism, kabbalah, gnosticism and vaisnava faith.. and that works for me to reach God.. nothing else is important!

 

rule nr 1 in mysticism:

 

only A and B is inportant, the beliver (A) and the beloved (B).. all else are irrelevant

[Guest guest]

 

The contempt is for the offense to Sri Krsna Himself, denying His very life and being, the very basis of existence itself. Perhaps pity is more appropriate.

 

Again, as with all real preaching, the only solution is to perfect our own relationship with Sri Krsna to demonstrate the Truth to the world. Words themselves will not win hearts. We must give them Krsna, then they will say 'Yes, this is it. I've been searching for Krsna all this time. Here can I repose all my love at last'.

 

 

Well, I can definitely agree to that. I cannot agree to a person debating fruitlessly about the merits of worshipping Krishna and then labelling those who don't agree as "dogs" or whatever. That's neither enlightened or very compassionate behaviour in my opinion.

[Guest guest]

 

How can a force forgive sins?

 

 

 

Also implying a force cannot be intelligent right? That it doesn't possess consciousness? So you deny the whole world is pervaded by consciousness? That consciousness itself can forgive and be considered intelligent? That it can direct its own evolution, or play with itself?

 

Why can't it?

 

I'm not saying it can, but I'm curious to know why you think God HAS to be personal, that He has to have form in order to express forgiveness or intelligence.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

and how can a force be offended? im not a impersonalist.. but i dont hate or think bad bout anybodys other views of God, may it be a force or whatever.. i just dont understand why hate people with other views etc

 

What is within the force.? How exactly He is everywhere ? Is He spiritual? What Is He? What's within His without?

These are some questions Islam is unable to answer.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Well, I can definitely agree to that. I cannot agree to a person debating fruitlessly about the merits of worshipping Krishna and then labelling those who don't agree as "dogs" or whatever. That's neither enlightened or very compassionate behaviour in my opinion.

 

Okay Mayavadis are not like Dogs. Happy now? Hare Krishna. I apoligize.

[gHari]

 

Also implying a force cannot be intelligent right? That it doesn't possess consciousness? So you deny the whole world is pervaded by consciousness? That consciousness itself can forgive and be considered intelligent? That it can direct its own evolution, or play with itself?

 

Why can't it?

 

I'm not saying it can, but I'm curious to know why you think God HAS to be personal, that He has to have form in order to express forgiveness or intelligence.

It doesn't matter whether it could or not, anymore than it matters whether unicorns can fly. It is simply mental exercise. And I am too old.

[Guest guest]

Dear Pankaja Prabhu,

 

Dandavat pranam. Sri Sri Guru Gauranha Jayatau!

 

Some possibilities to consider:

 

1) You say that you love God

2) God is a Person and has a Personal aspect [we agree on that]

 

I propose that:

3) God is All Good, otherwise He would not be God

Sivaya Subramuniyaswami has said that:

4) God is Love and nothing else but Love. He fills this whole world with Love. He fills you with Love.

The Christian Bible says

5) God is Love

 

So if God is Love, then wouldn't the rays coming from His effulgence be nothing but Pure Love?

 

If God is Pure Love, then is He going to let anything bad happen to any

of the jeevs?

 

So if God, who is the Supreme Controller [GOD = Generator, Operator, and Destroyer], allows a jeev to become purified enough that s/he can become a part of His effulgence, your problem with that is...?

 

You are angry because God allows some of the jeevs to drop off all of their

external sariras and koshas [gross and subtle bodies] and become immersed in Pure Love emanating from God's effulgence?

 

From one Hindu sadhu, I heard some hari-katha. The sadhu was sharing that

Krsna's effulgence is bluish and Radhika's is golden. When these two spiritual colors that are nothing but Pure Love merge [mix] together, then that is how all the things that are green that are in Vrndavana is created.

 

So you are saying that you hate, and have a problem, with anyone that

Krsna loves enough to purify them to become a part of His effulgence of Pure Love, which then mixes with Srimati-ji's effulgence of Pure Love, which in turn is what creates all of the green hued living entities comprised of saccidananda in Vrndavana?

 

It seems incongruous tom me that you claim to love the Lord yet you hate His effulgence and esp you hate the particles which comprise His effulgence.

 

It seems to be misguided hate. Perhaps it is envy of those jeevs situated in Pure Love? Because you freely speak of feeling hate and even start a post on how can we deal with anger, you feel alot of anger.

 

You seem like a very nice and saintly person to me. Mostly I see you freely distributing vidya-dana, knowledge. Mostly I see you self-reflective and honest, the qualities of a brahmana. I recall reading that your dad was abusive.

 

My feeling is that you might possibly have some residual vrittis [impressions] of rage having been subjected to corporal punishment as a child? Perhaps you were verbally abused by an alcoholic parent and not protected by a co-dependent enabler parent?

 

My feeling is if you very carefully think through what you are saying, it might not even make that much sense to you to rant aganst impersonalists.

 

I was wondering if you can learn to love the jeevs who want to be part of God's effulgence and mentally start saying, "Thank you" to them, because they are making your own Lord that much more beautiful.

 

i.e. if there are more and more jeevs in His effulgence, wouldn't He be looking more and more radiant? Like God wearing the best and most dazzling Harry Winston or Cartier diamond necklace from Tiffany's?

 

Or can you at least be like those ads the Beef Council puts out, "We love

vegetarians, more meat for us!" Can you at least adopt a somewhat mirthful

attitude, "We personalists LOVE impersonalists, more room for us in Goloka!"

 

You seem like such a nice person so I hope you will please forgive me if you feel I have said anything wrong.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Dear Pankaja Prabhu,

 

Dandavat pranam. Sri Sri Guru Gauranha Jayatau!

 

Some possibilities to consider:

 

1) You say that you love God

2) God is a Person and has a Personal aspect [we agree on that]

 

I propose that:

3) God is All Good, otherwise He would not be God

Sivaya Subramuniyaswami has said that:

4) God is Love and nothing else but Love. He fills this whole world with Love. He fills you with Love.

The Christian Bible says

5) God is Love

 

So if God is Love, then wouldn't the rays coming from His effulgence be nothing but Pure Love?

 

If God is Pure Love, then is He going to let anything bad happen to any

of the jeevs?

 

So if God, who is the Supreme Controller [GOD = Generator, Operator, and Destroyer], allows a jeev to become purified enough that s/he can become a part of His effulgence, your problem with that is...?

 

You are angry because God allows some of the jeevs to drop off all of their

external sariras and koshas [gross and subtle bodies] and become immersed in Pure Love emanating from God's effulgence?

 

From one Hindu sadhu, I heard some hari-katha. The sadhu was sharing that

Krsna's effulgence is bluish and Radhika's is golden. When these two spiritual colors that are nothing but Pure Love merge [mix] together, then that is how all the things that are green that are in Vrndavana is created.

 

So you are saying that you hate, and have a problem, with anyone that

Krsna loves enough to purify them to become a part of His effulgence of Pure Love, which then mixes with Srimati-ji's effulgence of Pure Love, which in turn is what creates all of the green hued living entities comprised of saccidananda in Vrndavana?

 

It seems incongruous tom me that you claim to love the Lord yet you hate His effulgence and esp you hate the particles which comprise His effulgence.

 

It seems to be misguided hate. Perhaps it is envy of those jeevs situated in Pure Love? Because you freely speak of feeling hate and even start a post on how can we deal with anger, you feel alot of anger.

 

You seem like a very nice and saintly person to me. Mostly I see you freely distributing vidya-dana, knowledge. Mostly I see you self-reflective and honest, the qualities of a brahmana. I recall reading that your dad was abusive.

 

My feeling is that you might possibly have some residual vrittis [impressions] of rage having been subjected to corporal punishment as a child? Perhaps you were verbally abused by an alcoholic parent and not protected by a co-dependent enabler parent?

 

My feeling is if you very carefully think through what you are saying, it might not even make that much sense to you to rant aganst impersonalists.

 

I was wondering if you can learn to love the jeevs who want to be part of God's effulgence and mentally start saying, "Thank you" to them, because they are making your own Lord that much more beautiful.

 

i.e. if there are more and more jeevs in His effulgence, wouldn't He be looking more and more radiant? Like God wearing the best and most dazzling Harry Winston or Cartier diamond necklace from Tiffany's?

 

Or can you at least be like those ads the Beef Council puts out, "We love

vegetarians, more meat for us!" Can you at least adopt a somewhat mirthful

attitude, "We personalists LOVE impersonalists, more room for us in Goloka!"

 

You seem like such a nice person so I hope you will please forgive me if you feel I have said anything wrong.

 

Interesting post indeed. Those Jivas are not floating in an ocean of love. There is no bliss in Krishna efflulegence. The Bliss IS His Form.

 

And Mayavadis are not like Advaitins, Mayavadis actually goto another Place called Mahakalpurnam (which is a place on Brahmaloka -the dark-side). That place is not the same at Tatatha-shakti (where we came from). Well I made my choice to come here, (it's not so bad, what with Nitai-Gauranga). Hare Krishna