Pankaja_Dasa Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Why doesn't it listen to what I say to it? Who does it (?) think it is? My Master? Is it really the master, if it's not why does it become 'the order giver'.? I was about to do something stupid, and I told myself 'No!'. And I stopped for a second (s). But the Mind (whatever it is) pulled me back into it's grasp again. It's a little bastard isn't it? Like a wondering dog which barks. The intelliengence I used was spiritual, but the mind (whatever it is), I'm still not sure. Pulled me back. ! AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 why blame the mind? When a man, Arjuna, abandons all the desires of his heart, and is pleased in his self only and by his self, he is then called one of steady mind. from this we can understand the mind is not an entity...ahem...with a mind of it's own! the feelings in your heart direct the mind. At least that is the way i understand it. So if you do something or think something you didn't want to, i don't think its right to blame the mind though it is so easy to do this - i do it all the time to vindicate myself. But the fact is that we ourselves are to blame for our own actions, which emanate from the mind, which emanates from the heart. Keep the heart clean, full of love, and the mind problem is eliminated immediately. That's why (part of reason) chanting and devotional service is advised - because we clean our hearts and the mind is immediately purified. Easier said than done tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 ahh nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 the mind is like a lawyer in court. the mind might say " I object" when you decide to give up following it's dictations. the intelligence is like the judge who says "objection over-ruled". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 the mind is like a lawyer in court.the mind might say " I object" when you decide to give up following it's dictations. the intelligence is like the judge who says "objection over-ruled". order in the court! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saidevo Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Mind can never be the master. It is only a witness. This is the reason we have the term 'manasakshi' or conscience. It is the Buddhi that is the master of the mind. For a practical discussion on mind, visit: swamij.com/fourfunctionsmind.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Yes, I wish my intelligence was stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Most usually you will hear from gurus and acharyas that the mind is part of the decisive factor that juggles our desires in a process called sankalpa - vikalpa.(accepting and rejecting) this is the accepting and rejecting process that deals with sense activities in contact with kama, krodha, and lobha. (lust, anger and greed) When our soul is in illusion we are constantly making decisions in regards to our material desires. This platform of accepting and rejecting based upon our desires is called the mind or the mental platform. It is not based upon intelligence, rather desire and material conditioning due to the influence of illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 why blame the mind? from this we can understand the mind is not an entity...ahem...with a mind of it's own! the feelings in your heart direct the mind. At least that is the way i understand it. So if you do something or think something you didn't want to, i don't think its right to blame the mind though it is so easy to do this - i do it all the time to vindicate myself. But the fact is that we ourselves are to blame for our own actions, which emanate from the mind, which emanates from the heart. Keep the heart clean, full of love, and the mind problem is eliminated immediately. That's why (part of reason) chanting and devotional service is advised - because we clean our hearts and the mind is immediately purified. Easier said than done tho Feelings don't come from the heart, at least not biologically. They come from the brain. The mind is a projection of consciousness and possibly the brain as well; perhaps it is responsible for shaping the brain and the brain shaping it. I don't think there has been any success so far in separating the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Mind can never be the master. It is only a witness. This is the reason we have the term 'manasakshi' or conscience. It is the Buddhi that is the master of the mind. For a practical discussion on mind, visit:swamij.com/fourfunctionsmind.htm Hmm, I think of the Upanishadic parable of two birds sitting in a tree, one is eating while the other looks on in silence. It's the atma that's the witness. The mind is not the atma. The mind and its subdivisions are a product of the ego, I think it considers itself the active participant, and thus is responsible for our engagement in the world. It is when the mind is still and silent that we are able to extricate ourselves from this maya and identify ourselves with the atma. Until then the mind is the obstruction in this world, which prevents us from knowing our true Self. At the same time, it can also be an invaluable tool to helping us escape this illusory existence. The buddhi is on the higher plane of consciousness than the mind, its source of intelligence is the atma. On the other hand, the mind, vijnana is a product of the ego, or so I have come to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 [quote name='Guest The buddhi is on the higher plane of consciousness than the mind, its source of intelligence is the atma. [/quote'] Actually, according to the Bhagavad-gita, the intelligence is the form direction of Paramatma, not atma. Maybe it is through the atma, but coming from Paramatma. From Paramatma to atma the intelligence is transmitted. The atma and Paramatma are qualitatively non-different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Actually, according to the Bhagavad-gita, the intelligence is the form direction of Paramatma, not atma. Maybe it is through the atma, but coming from Paramatma. From Paramatma to atma the intelligence is transmitted. The atma and Paramatma are qualitatively non-different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 The buddhi is on the higher plane of consciousness than the mind, its source of intelligence is the atma. Actually, according to the Bhagavad-gita, the intelligence is the form direction of Paramatma, not atma. Maybe it is through the atma, but coming from Paramatma. From Paramatma to atma the intelligence is transmitted. The atma and Paramatma are qualitatively non-different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Feelings don't come from the heart, at least not biologically. They come from the brain. The mind is a projection of consciousness and possibly the brain as well; perhaps it is responsible for shaping the brain and the brain shaping it. I don't think there has been any success so far in separating the two. Generally, in spiritual discussions the heart concept represents consciousness. When we say the "heart" we mean the "consciousness" not the blood pump in the chest cavity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Feelings don't come from the heart, at least not biologically. They come from the brain. The mind is a projection of consciousness and possibly the brain as well; perhaps it is responsible for shaping the brain and the brain shaping it. I don't think there has been any success so far in separating the two. the spiritual heart is not the same as the physical heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 http://vedabase.net/bg/18/33/en http://vedabase.net/bg/18/34/en http://vedabase.net/bg/18/35/en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devarsirat Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Whats mind? it does not matter whats matter? never mind;) The mind actually can be put into two half's. The left side of the brain is your conscious mind, involved in thinking and learning The right side of the brain is what we call the subconscious or unconscious mind With the conscious mind you can learn, accept and reject with the help of the intelligence. Everything you have learned from early childhood was processed by the conscious mind. The subconscious mind carries impressions, like memories, pictures, creative ideas, but it has no ability to distinguish between fact and fiction, that is left to the conscious mind the left side of the brain. So when you have a deep rooted feeling or habit that you want to get rid of, just by wishing hard or telling yourself so, you will find that because it is situated inside the subconscious mind, whatever you say will bounce off it and is only be heard by the conscious mind. When it comes to ideas feelings or thoughts which are fixed and rooted inside the subconsciouss the subconsciouss mind overrides the conscious mind and in this way we sometimes act as if against our will In order to change that, you literally have to enter the subconscious mind during very deep relaxation find out what you are thinking, then think of other more positive ways more suited to what you really want and change those thoughts. When you are on a level of wide awake, analyzing and engaging your conscious mind all the time, you have little chance to succeed. The reason for that is, that the subconscious mind is only accessible when you are very deeply relaxed. In hypnotherapy for example the reasoning and constantly analyzing faculties of the conscious mind are switched off and bypassed and the hypnotherapist can at that time plant new suggestions into the subconscious mind, who by its very nature can not reject them and in this way with a hypnotherapists support or practicing self hypnosis you could aid your Krishna Consciousness in that way. For as long as those false conceptions locked inside the subconsciousness are not changed and replaced by more positive ideas we will always act in unwanted ways as if by force. To get into your subconscious mind and swap a few thoughts around and make them suiting you, would certainly accelerate your progress in Krishna Consciousness a lot. Especially self limiting bothering and unwanted thoughts as well as old habits can all be treated successfully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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