Guest guest Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 OM NAMAH SIVAYA or is that surrendering? if One simply Loves God and asks for nothing is that the same as sitting back and letting life takes it's course? which i don't think would be tamasic. i guess maybe the answer is an individual One. i have a question on this same lines. Shree Maa says, "Surrender the ego so that we can recognize God when he comes rather than passing our time trying to manipulate his creation." my question for Swamiji or whomever is this; what determines the difference between putting forth effort to achieve a goal and manipulating creation? if our intentions are not selfish (or at least we think they are not), isn't working towards any goal a kind of "manipulating creation" to achieve a desired outcome? JAI MAA , "omprem" <omprem wrote: > > OM Namah Sivaya > > Could we not select "a beautiful ideal of Perfection" and live it, > personalize it ,and see ourselves as embodiments of Perfection, > acting accordingly? > > Are not those who sit back and let life take its course tamasic? > Do they not see a insurmountable barrier between themselves > and Perfection even while Perfection abides in them, constitutes > their essential identity and continually calls them? > > Even their breath calls to them. Their inbreath whispers, "So" > and their outbreath whispers, "Ham". With each breath they > remind themselves, "I am That " and yet refuse to hear > themselves. > > OM and Prem > > , "n_ramya108" > <n_ramya108@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Karen and all beloved Family, > > > > Thanks for the question -- one time i had the blessing of > asking this same clarification > > with Swamiji and i pray that i can share my understanding > correctly. > > > > Karen has picked this sentence from the Devi Mandir web > page -- Our Mission. You can > > see the complete text here: > > > > http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal/taxonomy_menu/46/61 > > > > Everybody is part of history and plays a role - it can be a > beautiful role, a minor > > role..etc...it is our choice...depends upon our ideal of > perfection. Swamiji says that we are > > children of Shiva (who allows us to make a sankalpa and > choose our path and make a plan > > and follow it) and Divine Mother (who gives us the fruits of our > karma). > > > > So we can either pick a beautiful ideal of Perfection and strive > to reach it or sit back and let > > life take its course -- in either case Divine Mother is going to > give the fruit of our > > karma...why not we pick a noble ideal and strive for that truth > and love in our lives...and > > that way we can contribute an example in our lives for our > world. > > > > Jai Maa! Thank You! > > > > ramya > > > > > > > > , "forall10q" > <forall10q@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "The scripture of Sanatana Dharma (The Eternal Ideal Of > Perfection) is > > > never complete; each of us contributes in its writing by living > the > > > example." > > > > > > This is a beautiful thought, but I confess to not really > understanding > > > it. Is it to be taken literally? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Karen [] > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 hi eric. hope you are doing well. the answer is 'no,' because this goal is not for, or of, creation, but beyond creation. you could say 'yes' because anything we conceive is within creation [mind], but that would be a disservice to your own Self; placing the all and the everything into the basket of limitation, instead of heeding your intuitive awareness of the limitless being the basket floats in. peace steve whomever. , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > or is that surrendering? if One simply Loves God and asks for > nothing is that the same as sitting back and letting life takes it's > course? which i don't think would be tamasic. i guess maybe the > answer is an individual One. i have a question on this same lines. > Shree Maa says, "Surrender the ego so that we can recognize God when > he comes rather than passing our time trying to manipulate his > creation." my question for Swamiji or whomever is this; what > determines the difference between putting forth effort to achieve a > goal and manipulating creation? if our intentions are not selfish > (or at least we think they are not), isn't working towards any goal > a kind of "manipulating creation" to achieve a desired outcome? > > JAI MAA > > , "omprem" <omprem@> wrote: > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > Could we not select "a beautiful ideal of Perfection" and live it, > > personalize it ,and see ourselves as embodiments of Perfection, > > acting accordingly? > > > > Are not those who sit back and let life take its course tamasic? > > Do they not see a insurmountable barrier between themselves > > and Perfection even while Perfection abides in them, constitutes > > their essential identity and continually calls them? > > > > Even their breath calls to them. Their inbreath whispers, "So" > > and their outbreath whispers, "Ham". With each breath they > > remind themselves, "I am That " and yet refuse to hear > > themselves. > > > > OM and Prem > > > > , "n_ramya108" > > <n_ramya108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Namaste Karen and all beloved Family, > > > > > > Thanks for the question -- one time i had the blessing of > > asking this same clarification > > > with Swamiji and i pray that i can share my understanding > > correctly. > > > > > > Karen has picked this sentence from the Devi Mandir web > > page -- Our Mission. You can > > > see the complete text here: > > > > > > http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal/taxonomy_menu/46/61 > > > > > > Everybody is part of history and plays a role - it can be a > > beautiful role, a minor > > > role..etc...it is our choice...depends upon our ideal of > > perfection. Swamiji says that we are > > > children of Shiva (who allows us to make a sankalpa and > > choose our path and make a plan > > > and follow it) and Divine Mother (who gives us the fruits of our > > karma). > > > > > > So we can either pick a beautiful ideal of Perfection and strive > > to reach it or sit back and let > > > life take its course -- in either case Divine Mother is going to > > give the fruit of our > > > karma...why not we pick a noble ideal and strive for that truth > > and love in our lives...and > > > that way we can contribute an example in our lives for our > > world. > > > > > > Jai Maa! Thank You! > > > > > > ramya > > > > > > > > > > > > , "forall10q" > > <forall10q@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "The scripture of Sanatana Dharma (The Eternal Ideal Of > > Perfection) is > > > > never complete; each of us contributes in its writing by > living > > the > > > > example." > > > > > > > > This is a beautiful thought, but I confess to not really > > understanding > > > > it. Is it to be taken literally? > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > Karen [] > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 hi, steve. yes very well. and if i am not being well i just be better. hope all is God with you and your family. i understand what you are saying, but to me, what you are talking about is beyond any goals. aren't goals for creation? isn't beyond creation really beyond goals? i am talking about a less metaphysical type of goal. for example, if One has the goal to become a jazz musican, don't we really manipulate creation to accomplish that goal? so what determines if we are simply putting forth effort towards our goal(in this example of being a jazz musician) or manipulating creation? isn't the effort really manipulating creation to achieve our goal? -e , "Steve Connor" <sconnor wrote: > > hi eric. hope you are doing well. the answer is 'no,' because this > goal is not for, or of, creation, but beyond creation. > > you could say 'yes' because anything we conceive is within creation > [mind], but that would be a disservice to your own Self; placing > the all and the everything into the basket of limitation, instead of > heeding your intuitive awareness of the limitless being the basket > floats in. > > peace > > steve whomever. > > , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > or is that surrendering? if One simply Loves God and asks for > > nothing is that the same as sitting back and letting life takes it's > > course? which i don't think would be tamasic. i guess maybe the > > answer is an individual One. i have a question on this same lines. > > Shree Maa says, "Surrender the ego so that we can recognize God when > > he comes rather than passing our time trying to manipulate his > > creation." my question for Swamiji or whomever is this; what > > determines the difference between putting forth effort to achieve a > > goal and manipulating creation? if our intentions are not selfish > > (or at least we think they are not), isn't working towards any goal > > a kind of "manipulating creation" to achieve a desired outcome? > > > > JAI MAA > > > > , "omprem" <omprem@> wrote: > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > Could we not select "a beautiful ideal of Perfection" and live it, > > > personalize it ,and see ourselves as embodiments of Perfection, > > > acting accordingly? > > > > > > Are not those who sit back and let life take its course tamasic? > > > Do they not see a insurmountable barrier between themselves > > > and Perfection even while Perfection abides in them, constitutes > > > their essential identity and continually calls them? > > > > > > Even their breath calls to them. Their inbreath whispers, "So" > > > and their outbreath whispers, "Ham". With each breath they > > > remind themselves, "I am That " and yet refuse to hear > > > themselves. > > > > > > OM and Prem > > > > > > , "n_ramya108" > > > <n_ramya108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Karen and all beloved Family, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the question -- one time i had the blessing of > > > asking this same clarification > > > > with Swamiji and i pray that i can share my understanding > > > correctly. > > > > > > > > Karen has picked this sentence from the Devi Mandir web > > > page -- Our Mission. You can > > > > see the complete text here: > > > > > > > > http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal/taxonomy_menu/46/61 > > > > > > > > Everybody is part of history and plays a role - it can be a > > > beautiful role, a minor > > > > role..etc...it is our choice...depends upon our ideal of > > > perfection. Swamiji says that we are > > > > children of Shiva (who allows us to make a sankalpa and > > > choose our path and make a plan > > > > and follow it) and Divine Mother (who gives us the fruits of our > > > karma). > > > > > > > > So we can either pick a beautiful ideal of Perfection and strive > > > to reach it or sit back and let > > > > life take its course -- in either case Divine Mother is going to > > > give the fruit of our > > > > karma...why not we pick a noble ideal and strive for that truth > > > and love in our lives...and > > > > that way we can contribute an example in our lives for our > > > world. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! Thank You! > > > > > > > > ramya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "forall10q" > > > <forall10q@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The scripture of Sanatana Dharma (The Eternal Ideal Of > > > Perfection) is > > > > > never complete; each of us contributes in its writing by > > living > > > the > > > > > example." > > > > > > > > > > This is a beautiful thought, but I confess to not really > > > understanding > > > > > it. Is it to be taken literally? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > Karen [] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > if One simply Loves God and asks for nothing is that the same as sitting back and letting > life takes it's course? which i don't think would be tamasic. i guess maybe the > answer is an individual One. Namaste Siva's Will be done, this is in creation. In a message dated 8/14/2006 12:23:14 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, sconnor (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com writes: you could say 'yes' because anything we conceive is within creation [mind], but that would be a disservice to your own Self; placing the all and the everything into the basket of limitation, instead of heeding your intuitive awareness of the limitless being the basket floats in. Namaste "Self Creation, Self Realization". No limitation. Love Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Namaste Eric, But if one's soul calls out and yearns for this expression, to be a jazz musician for instance, then that desire must be met or released and from my experience we cannot forcefully cut out such desires. There is also the issue of parabda karma. If we get really really honest with ourselves, don't most of us know what we really want to do or express? Or at least have hints of this? God needs people to grow food and to build roads and to make music and to paint. It seems that each of us is given a set of samskaras and a set of gifts, HOW we use those and how honest we live our own personal expression of Gods love is what I understand the goal being...figuring out our own best expression and consciously moving toward that. For my own self, I find fear and desires are the greatest barriers to fully acknowledging and manifesting what I think I meant to do this time around. Perhaps there are levels to all of this. I have heard the idea of doing the footwork (learning to be a jazz musician) but leaving the results up to God (success, money, etc.). That takes a lot of faith. 20+ years ago I really fell in love with the idea of God as a cosmic body. It helps me to think, am I a heart cell or a liver cell or a muscle cell. It does not work to try to be something we are not. We are not good at it. It ends up being like a cancer expression or at least ineffective. But if we do and are honest in our expression, as Emmett Fox said, get off our own water hose, then energy flows. I think this is something like the individual expression of perfection...consciously. This is something I am really taking a hard look at right now. I have found not following those soul urgings exhausting. Jai Maa , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > hi, steve. yes very well. and if i am not being well i just be > better. hope all is God with you and your family. i understand > what you are saying, but to me, what you are talking about is beyond > any goals. aren't goals for creation? isn't beyond creation really > beyond goals? i am talking about a less metaphysical type of goal. > for example, if One has the goal to become a jazz musican, don't we > really manipulate creation to accomplish that goal? so what > determines if we are simply putting forth effort towards our goal (in > this example of being a jazz musician) or manipulating creation? > isn't the effort really manipulating creation to achieve our goal? - e > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 yes, it is manipulating creation ... but, the devotee isn't really trying to achieve any Thing. she is trying to achieve an absence of some Nothing, until, everything she inwardly already knows becomes happily true, obvious, or apparent. the innate sense of conflict falls away, or settles, or in some way dies back -- is this an achievement? the devotee didn't do any Thing. there is no hookup to what she did/didn't do, and her current happiness. she can't say anything but words of gratitude like "God or my Guru caused this." its not that she will stop doing anything, but that the sense of conflict will be gone. there might still be great struggles and pain, but "i love/hate" will be gone, and "we are one" will be here. the conflict is the core sense of duality, some people will deny they even have it. it can shimmer down to the most subtle awareness of the light dance of fear. when a person gets really desperate for something they sometimes grab for it like a hungry beast. this can be a nobility of action, if a person or beast's purpose is true. she must end this ignorance she holds within, she MUST. i fell into a reverie and asked, "is realization an arriving or a going?" someone then told me it is an arriving with plenty of coming and going first. eventually we get speechless and that's nice, but we talk because we are supposed to, and its fun sometimes. a goal gets our butts in gear, doesn't it? i get filled up with regrets, negativities, all kinds of junk. that has to get pushed away to receive the bliss of our inherent non-dual state. we know it [the absolute] but now we will live it [shine in this creation.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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