Guest guest Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 OM NAMAH SIVAYA I don't want to waste anyone's time here but I would like to entertain this discussion with you. I am pretty new to all this, definitely have much to learn and not trying to cause trouble. with that said I have a couple of questions. In earlier posts you said, Shakti is constantly moving and holding on to "I" or "mine" is a trap. Couldn't that hold true for tradition as well? Isn't "tradition" basically a form of being resistant to change? And you speak of experiences being individual, no 1 way. yet you say,"To be successful in this practice if you are very fast you need at least 3 years for the theory you need 6 years for the nadi purifying you need at least another 12 to be sucessful in the main practice and this only if you are fast and have studied the stuff for several incarnations before." Isn't any specific amount of time relative to so many variables that couldn't individual results vary huge amounts in a linear sense of time? And the world and events seems so much faster today than in times past couldn't this also hold true for spiritual evolution? And isn't the progress really depend upon faith and devotion? I am terrible with stories but like the story about the king going to visit the sage because he wants enlightenment. the sage is out and when he knocks on the door the son answers. The king tells the son he wants to be realized and the son tells him to say The Name Ram with full faith and devotion 2 times. Later when the sage returns the son tells him about the king visiting and the advice he gave the king. The sage told the son you only need to say The Name once. With this in mind, what about the notion that while this tradition was formed in the East in this current time Westerners are maybe more suited for spirituality as Westerns are more devoted(as a generalization). I mean we will sacrifice our lives for money and things, which we think will bring us happiness. Hell we'll sacrifice your lives to if you get in our way. while it is foolish and at best a tamasic form of devotion, just imagine the devotion of Westerns if it was for something worthwhile, like Real happiness. And my personal experience is it is easier to practice a spirituality discipline outside of the culture one grew up in as there is less baggage and preconceptions associated with it. Look forward to your insight on this topic. thanks for your time. -e JAI MA , "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha wrote: > > , "Llundrub" <llundrub@> > wrote: > > > > Excuse me? Who are you talking to? > > I am trying to discuss something. > I am trying to discuss the discrepancy between new age terminology > and eastern religious and philosophical terminology as it > is used in a more traditional environment. > > We can talk about the following topics: > 1. Discuss if there is any discrepancy in the interpretation of > crucial terms like kundalini, moksha, dhyana, samadhi, yoga, maithuna > etc. > 2. If there is a discrepancy we can discuss what the differences are. > 3. we can discuss the reason of the discrepancies whether they are > historic, cultural, sampradayic or if here are other reasons. > 4. we can discuss if inspite of the deviations, if this amended new > age practice, is meaningful and produces healthy results or not? > 5. We can discuss if it is true that , what was said in the excerpt > of G .Whites introduction to his book that DB posted recently, , new > age ideas are reimported into india and sold to seekers by some > Indian Gurus. > 6. We can discuss the impact of this on indian local culture and > spirituality,what impact do these reimport of ideas have. For > instance is there a growing tendency in india to claim "instant > enlightment"also? > > I think this is very important since i am always painfull aware that > i am also by posting here am "reimporting" ideas and try to avoid > resulting problems. > > Especially in this forum which is unique, since both parties take > part in the discussions eastern and western members, we should maybe > become more aware of these questions especially since people like > Lulu are reimporting stuff that is deviant beyond recognition, though > influenced by former eatsern now neo-advaitic ideas of "self > recognition" > > Is this always a mutual exchange where everybody gains, or is the > influence of westerners or people that have been raised in a modern > western society, comenting on eastern philosopy and religion > detrimental to the local traditions, or the other way around can > eastern philosophy or practice be detrimental to the westerners? > Must the westerners adapt it or not? What is too much adaption? What > is the moment where the gap becomes that big that both sides cannot > understand it each other anymore? > Is it especailly detrimental if westerners claim high achievement or > act as if they are in the "know" ? Or is everything fine as it is? > > But of course you can say who are you talking to? this is an easy way > out. Maybe other like to respond. if not i will be out of this thread. > My apologies to all those who have been offendend by my overtly > frank way of pointing out these problems and dangers. > > Who is at the receiving end of all the indic traditions the east or > the west? Or do these distinction not matter anymore in the wake of > globalisation? > Shouldn´t we treat the sanskrit terms repectfully and not borrow > them according to our liking? > > Mahahradanatha > > > > > > > - > > "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha@> > > <> > > Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:45 AM > > Re: Kundalini > > > > > > > , "Llundrub" <llundrub@> > wrote: > > >> > > >> We have been through this before Maha. But I learn my lessons. > I > > > don't > > >> steer ships into icebergs. There are those who 'know' and those > > > who 'No!' > > >> > > > Now you say you have a vajrayana teacher? Why do you need a Guru? > > > When you have already raised Kundalini you have reached > everything why > > > you still folllow a teacher? > > > > > > The tibetan Yogis go into retraet and practise completion stage > yoga > > > and nadi -bindu yoga also called, tummo chandali, whichh is > > > approximatley the same practice as Kundalini yoga, the go into > full > > > retreat for 3 years and another three years, and maybe some after > 30 > > > years the achieved what you already claim to have. > > > And now it hurts your ego if i do not believe all these claims of > the > > > do it yourself realised why that if you are already enligtened > you > > > should be above such petty emotions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > I don't want to waste anyone's time here but I would like to > entertain this discussion with you. I am pretty new to all this, > definitely have much to learn and not trying to cause trouble. with > that said I have a couple of questions. In earlier posts you said, > > Shakti is constantly moving and holding on to "I" or "mine" is a > trap. Couldn't that hold true for tradition as well? > Isn't "tradition" basically a form of being resistant to change? Please consider that i am only trying to define terms, tradition exists whether we like it or not, whether we belive it has it pitfalls and should be ignored or belive it has to be followed strictly. We can say one thing for certain, it is through tradition and teachers that this knowledge has come down to us, no matter whether we interpret it based on our own experience or with the help of a teacher. All i ask is to stop for one moment and consider the possibility that a lot of words now used in the west do not denote the same things anymore. Kundalini is one of these terms that from the very beginning when the thesophist like especially mr.leadbeater and miss annie besant had their own visions of chakras, became distorted when things crept into the description that where hilarious from the viepoint of the eastern practicioners. NA.Avalon then tried to corrrect the picture and published his book serpent power which is still an excellent source of first hand information on the chakras. Since in the west there has been an independent development of "working with the cahkras and other energy patterns like the chinese meridians and also other energetic healing practices have crept in. If one speaks about kundalini and chakras in a new age or energetic healing email list, everybody has about the same idea about chakras and kundalini. Now thats why it is possible to speak about it. The problem starts when both worlds meet. Like i try to express before lets for one moment forget who is right or wrong, let us just find out if we are talking about the same things. I believe that a shakta from any of the asian countries has a different idea of the effects of the Kundalini than a western practicioner. Thats why it is maybe sometimes not possible to speak about things at all-which is sad. It is not only Kundalini but also other terms like self realisation that have taken on a completly different meaning. That was why some people had problems relating to Lulus post, a posting that would be considered completly normal in a western neo-advaita email list. > > And you speak of experiences being individual, no 1 way. yet you > say,"To be successful in this practice if you are very fast you >need > at least 3 years for the theory you need 6 years for the nadi > purifying you need at least another 12 to be sucessful in the main > practice and this only if you are fast and have studied the stuff > for several incarnations before." Isn't any specific amount of >time > relative to so many variables that couldn't individual results vary > huge amounts in a linear sense of time? And of course this is a generalisation, a rough estimate, but i must begin somewhere to start the discussion,so that some people begin to learn that maybe there exists another kundalini which is not so easy to achieve. > > And the world and events seems so much faster today than in times > past couldn't this also hold true for spiritual evolution? And > isn't the progress really depend upon faith and devotion? I am > terrible with stories but like the story about the king going to > visit the sage because he wants enlightenment. the sage is out and > when he knocks on the door the son answers. The king tells the son > he wants to be realized and the son tells him to say The Name Ram > with full faith and devotion 2 times. Later when the sage returns > the son tells him about the king visiting and the advice he gave >the > king. The sage told the son you only need to say The Name once. > > With this in mind, what about the notion that while this tradition > was formed in the East in this current time Westerners are maybe > more suited for spirituality as Westerns are more devoted(as a > generalization). I mean we will sacrifice our lives for money and > things, which we think will bring us happiness. Hell we'll >sacrifice > your lives to if you get in our way. while it is foolish and at > best a tamasic form of devotion, just imagine the devotion of > Westerns if it was for something worthwhile, like Real happiness. > And my personal experience is it is easier to practice a > spirituality discipline outside of the culture one grew up in as > there is less baggage and preconceptions associated with it. Yes i am afraid that some people think like this and i admire your frankness to admit that you think that the westerner is maybe more suited for eastern spirituality. Would it be perfectly ok for you if the western devotee comes and teaches the indian how to practice his religion? What if the Indian is getting angry, and refuse to talk to the ferengi? would you understand that reaction? I would. I think it is the other way around and times are so degenerated that people want instant satisfaction without investing effort and that this is one reason for the many methods that promise fast success. You can see this trend everywhere from fast food to video games with fast results and fast satisfaction, everything has to give satisfaction fast, the tolerance for frustration is low, people tend to divorce very fast if problems occur, throw their broken toys away instead of reparing them and buy new ones. I do not try to give answersor judge i only want to point to differences and problems that exist. Eventually everybody has to answer the question for himself if it is worthwile to invest some more study and effort into a subject or not. I have invested a lot of effort, i studied all the indian philososphy Samkhya, Adavaita, vedanta, Yoga, Bauddha, Shaiva siddhanta, siddha, Shakta, the Puranas the upanishads,tantras, and how the indic tradition was transfereed and integrated into china, mongolia and tibet, how it was transfered to Sufism and what are the common terms and practices and also where do all these philosophies differ and the change indic philosophy underwent when it came to europe and america. Besides studying the theories i also tried to get more insight into the practical methods and apply some of them in my life. I do not think everybody must invest or can invest that much time into something foreign to his own culture, and i understand that there must happen some adaption. But how much and at what cost for both cultures? Thank you very much for your kind reply, i hope our discussion will go on and maybe others could also express their ideas, i think how this adaption and integration and ultimately exchange of ideas is done is a very important topic for all of us, eastern and western Shaktas. Mahahradantha > > > , "mahahradanatha" > <mahahradanatha@> wrote: > > > > , "Llundrub" <llundrub@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Excuse me? Who are you talking to? > > > > I am trying to discuss something. > > I am trying to discuss the discrepancy between new age > terminology > > and eastern religious and philosophical terminology as it > > is used in a more traditional environment. > > > > We can talk about the following topics: > > 1. Discuss if there is any discrepancy in the interpretation of > > crucial terms like kundalini, moksha, dhyana, samadhi, yoga, > maithuna > > etc. > > 2. If there is a discrepancy we can discuss what the differences > are. > > 3. we can discuss the reason of the discrepancies whether they > are > > historic, cultural, sampradayic or if here are other reasons. > > 4. we can discuss if inspite of the deviations, if this amended > new > > age practice, is meaningful and produces healthy results or not? > > 5. We can discuss if it is true that , what was said in the > excerpt > > of G .Whites introduction to his book that DB posted recently, , > new > > age ideas are reimported into india and sold to seekers by some > > Indian Gurus. > > 6. We can discuss the impact of this on indian local culture and > > spirituality,what impact do these reimport of ideas have. For > > instance is there a growing tendency in india to claim "instant > > enlightment"also? > > > > I think this is very important since i am always painfull aware > that > > i am also by posting here am "reimporting" ideas and try to avoid > > resulting problems. > > > > Especially in this forum which is unique, since both parties take > > part in the discussions eastern and western members, we should > maybe > > become more aware of these questions especially since people like > > Lulu are reimporting stuff that is deviant beyond recognition, > though > > influenced by former eatsern now neo-advaitic ideas of "self > > recognition" > > > > Is this always a mutual exchange where everybody gains, or is the > > influence of westerners or people that have been raised in a > modern > > western society, comenting on eastern philosopy and religion > > detrimental to the local traditions, or the other way around can > > eastern philosophy or practice be detrimental to the westerners? > > Must the westerners adapt it or not? What is too much adaption? > What > > is the moment where the gap becomes that big that both sides > cannot > > understand it each other anymore? > > Is it especailly detrimental if westerners claim high achievement > or > > act as if they are in the "know" ? Or is everything fine as it is? > > > > But of course you can say who are you talking to? this is an easy > way > > out. Maybe other like to respond. if not i will be out of this > thread. > > My apologies to all those who have been offendend by my overtly > > frank way of pointing out these problems and dangers. > > > > Who is at the receiving end of all the indic traditions the east > or > > the west? Or do these distinction not matter anymore in the wake > of > > globalisation? > > Shouldn´t we treat the sanskrit terms repectfully and not borrow > > them according to our liking? > > > > Mahahradanatha > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha@> > > > <> > > > Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:45 AM > > > Re: Kundalini > > > > > > > > > > , "Llundrub" <llundrub@> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> We have been through this before Maha. But I learn my > lessons. > > I > > > > don't > > > >> steer ships into icebergs. There are those who 'know' and > those > > > > who 'No!' > > > >> > > > > Now you say you have a vajrayana teacher? Why do you need a > Guru? > > > > When you have already raised Kundalini you have reached > > everything why > > > > you still folllow a teacher? > > > > > > > > The tibetan Yogis go into retraet and practise completion > stage > > yoga > > > > and nadi -bindu yoga also called, tummo chandali, whichh is > > > > approximatley the same practice as Kundalini yoga, the go > into > > full > > > > retreat for 3 years and another three years, and maybe some > after > > 30 > > > > years the achieved what you already claim to have. > > > > And now it hurts your ego if i do not believe all these claims > of > > the > > > > do it yourself realised why that if you are already enligtened > > you > > > > should be above such petty emotions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 OM NAMAH SIVAYA my intention was not to be denigrating. i apologize if you got that impression. i guess that is the shortcoming of words, which are at best a representation of the truth. to each his own, yes totally. diversity is very beautiful indeed. my only point was, maybe it is not as much about definitions and the differences but rather to see that Shakti(or whatever Name or Form you want to assign) is the One thread we all have in common. and understanding we are all on our own trips seems key. yet at Her level we are all in this together. be it East, West, North, South, black, white, brown, yellow, green, religion, caste, or creed, it really doesn't matter. because the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. perhaps the point of any spirtual practice is to see that in the end it IS monotheistic. out of the many Names and Forms, we get The One. God Bless -e JAI MA , "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha wrote: > > > , "ecjensen_us" > <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > first i would say that one thing the tradition has taught me is > > there is nothing greater than the True Guru. but it seems what the > > True Guru departs more than any philosophical viewpoints or > > intricacies of chakras is 2 main points. Love and Faith. our > > experiences of Love with the True Teacher gives us faith to continue > > to move forward. and that Love of the True One is the feeling of > > God. and if One follows the Divine Love doesn't the Kundalini and > > open chakras and philosophical knowledge follow. because without > > knowledge of Love the philosophy seems empty to me. maybe this is > > an over simplification on my part due to a lack of knowledge, if so > > i can accept that but there is NOTHING LIKE THE LOVE OF THE MOTHER! > > > > JAI MA > > To each his own i would say, isn´t diversity something very beautiful? > Imagine everybody would be alike and have the same attitude, worship > the same good, would follow the same "truth"-how boring.... > But why always this denigrating of the other paths (philosophy seems > empty) and this praisng of ones own way? (there is NOTHING LIKE THE > LOVE OF THE MOTHER!) This reminds me not of peace and love and > freedom but it reminds me of religious fanatism,jihad and war. > Talk like this has always been the hallmark of the monotheistic > religions. > Don´t you see that this is the opposite of love? > > This is very sad. > > Mahahradanatha > > > > > , "mahahradanatha" > > <mahahradanatha@> wrote: > > > > > > , "ecjensen_us" > > > <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > my intention was not to be denigrating. i apologize if you got that > impression. i guess that is the shortcoming of words, which are at > best a representation of the truth. to each his own, yes totally. > diversity is very beautiful indeed. my only point was, maybe it is > not as much about definitions and the differences but rather to see > that Shakti(or whatever Name or Form you want to assign) is the One > thread we all have in common. and understanding we are all on our > own trips seems key. yet at Her level we are all in this together. > be it East, West, North, South, black, white, brown, yellow, green, > religion, caste, or creed, it really doesn't matter. because the > chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. perhaps the point of > any spirtual practice is to see that in the end it IS monotheistic. > out of the many Names and Forms, we get The One. God Bless -e > > JAI MA One starts very fast making differences because we are so used to it, It is like you said one has to get over that, exactly that is it is fund to watch the beautiful in all the diversity, if you say the words "rather to see not as much" you are making a difference for everybody while you should make one for yourself only,if you oick a amngo from a heap of fruits, you don´t say the mango is nice lets throw away the figs, you would say these nice figs i keep them for later or offer them to anyone who loves figs. The same way we should do it with spiritual paths. The best attitude for a bhakta i think would be to say "I feel that i reach the devi by love and faith" looking at the Hatha Yogi one should say "How marvellous he reaches the devi by definitions and following a strict pathof practice" THis way you do not hold on to something and get negative emotions of aversion,instead you see the flow of bliss everywhere. So if you follow the path of bhakti you use what is called "sambandha" this is the attitude to see her face also in other dieties and also in other definitions. I think that does not mean we have to believe what others belive we choose our path or the path chooses us, but nonetheless we respectwe are happy with the others who like the differing path. Regarding monotheism one should not forget that there is a difference between worship of a god and "god realisation" the aim of the sages any yogis. the word god does not denote the same thing in both cases. Sages do not look for such a god that exists somewhere,and has made the universe, they look to find another state of god "the experiencer" inside every individual consciousness. Because all gods as great or small as they may be, all have experiences maybe differnt from our experiences but they have some, thats why they also have like every sentient being something that we call "experiencer" and teh other god is called "world of experiences" This is the actual god or goddess the yogis and sages look for and mean when they say that all ways lead to one goal or all gods are the same, That does not mean that there is one big chief of all with different names or forms it means that inside every conscious being there is the experiencer who is watching the world´s play. That god the experiencer is in everything existing however small and insignificant it looks or how ugly it seems. SO the monotheistic part is more about our own cognition of the universe and finding god is changing the way we cognize than praying to some big boss monotheistic god/ goddess whose primary importance its its agency as creator or supervisor. I do not want to make a distinction in ym discussion between wetsern or estern and decide who is better i only think that if there are terms that have different definitions, we ought to know them when we try to exchange in a meaningful way. As westerners we are guests when becoming interested in indic philosophy and religion we don´t own the house and we don´t own the terminology, so to become aware of differences is basic courtesy. The question is should th Indian invent a new term only because the old has been appropriated? Or should the westerner use some terms more careful outside his new age email group? let us not behave as we would own the house while being visitors. Mahahradanatha > > , "mahahradanatha" > <mahahradanatha@> wrote: > > > > > > , "ecjensen_us" > > <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > > > first i would say that one thing the tradition has taught me is > > > there is nothing greater than the True Guru. but it seems what > the > > > True Guru departs more than any philosophical viewpoints or > > > intricacies of chakras is 2 main points. Love and Faith. our > > > experiences of Love with the True Teacher gives us faith to > continue > > > to move forward. and that Love of the True One is the feeling of > > > God. and if One follows the Divine Love doesn't the Kundalini > and > > > open chakras and philosophical knowledge follow. because without > > > knowledge of Love the philosophy seems empty to me. maybe this > is > > > an over simplification on my part due to a lack of knowledge, if > so > > > i can accept that but there is NOTHING LIKE THE LOVE OF THE > MOTHER! > > > > > > JAI MA > > > > To each his own i would say, isn´t diversity something very > beautiful? > > Imagine everybody would be alike and have the same attitude, > worship > > the same good, would follow the same "truth"-how boring.... > > But why always this denigrating of the other paths (philosophy > seems > > empty) and this praisng of ones own way? (there is NOTHING LIKE > THE > > LOVE OF THE MOTHER!) This reminds me not of peace and love and > > freedom but it reminds me of religious fanatism,jihad and war. > > Talk like this has always been the hallmark of the monotheistic > > religions. > > Don´t you see that this is the opposite of love? > > > > This is very sad. > > > > Mahahradanatha > > > > > > > > , "mahahradanatha" > > > <mahahradanatha@> wrote: > > > > > > > > , "ecjensen_us" > > > > <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 I don't discuss experiences. But this I will say. Kundalini is kundalini like a rose is a rose, and I don't need any self avowed German expert telling me anything about it. I don't need gurus or books or anything else. I have been knowing Her since I was in my teens. I could care less if someone doesn't like that, or if they were devout hatha yogins from the mid 1800s with 200 year life spans and it took them 100 years of solid practice to reach Her awakening where it took me a few weeks. Nobody on Earth can say what will happen from one day to the next let alone how someone else will develop. Maybe kundalini is not something people really want since it makes life a good bit harder dealing with peripheral awarenesses. That's my experience. Kundalini is not fun. I have to admit I didn't follow this thread. Whenever someone starts pontificating kundalini correctness I have to sink back inside a bit and - actually - laugh a little. Or maybe weep. I mean, who cares really what others think? If thinking they are kundalini tantrics gets them through their days then - so be it! So I'm Vajrayana and we don't even talk kundalini. Before that actually I spent four years at MIU practicing TM and studied the Vedic literature and two years of Sanskrit. After that I read tantras, mostly of the Shakti pursuasion since that's my bent. I have learned so much that I have studied systems which had two chakras, five, seven, nine and even fourteen chakras. I may even practice all of them intermittently. I don't care for experts. An expert is someone who only knows one thing well. Should they learn something else they are experts no longer. Whatever, time to scratch the bawls and have a beer. Life is short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 , "Dhirendra Pal Singh" <dpal.singh wrote: > > On 8/9/06, mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote: > > > > , "ecjensen_us" > > <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > > All i ask is to stop for one moment and consider the possibility >that > > a lot of words now used in the west do not denote the same things > > anymore. > > > Sorry to jump in, when my knowledge is very little, but I do agree with > Mahahradantha. People have mixed and matched the words to their own needs. > He does have a very valid point, as I do see it in a lot of books I read > here in the west. That's one the reason I stopped reading books written by > folks here. Exceptions are always there. > > I mean if I wanted to study Tibetan tantra, or Chinese way, I would actually > want to read and learn it the way , Tibetans or Chinese do it.. not the way > some foreigner (even if the foreigner was from my county:) ) wrote it and > may have tainted it. Unless off course I make it an ego issue, and is bent > upon proving that Indians also have great knowledge of Chinese tradition for > example. Heck even if they did, I would still prefer to get it from a > Chinese Master.. But then that's me.. dumb ass me.. > I was very happy that i had a western guru because the entrance was easier and i could slowly approach the source. I think otherwise i would not have been daring enough to jump right into something very foreign. This was the right mixture of being close enough to the original but nonetheless easy to begin with. Even if both my paramesthi guru and my guru have been westerners nonetheless there where many indian devotees. So it was a really functioning east west group of people with Indian westerners and even Iranian people meeting at Guru Purnima to honour western gurus. It was working well. My Parameshti Guru was a recognized sadhu by the indian governmemt and received a small sadhu pension living with a family of Indian disciples in Gujrat in his old age where he also died. > > Oh, Mahahradantha, you have been very generous in this time line. People > have said to spend birth and still not able to awaken Kundalini. > I know this is the fastest possible i could imagine only when everything really fits in smooth and you have the great karmic backlog. My dear. I hate to break it to you, but that's not the way it happens in > the world of spirituality. It has never happened and will not ever happen. > Unless, you have a great karmic backlog, which you have gathered from your > previous births, it just simply cant happen. So if you think that is going > to happen to you, I suggest you wake up and smell the coffee. Unless, off > course, you have a master who is capable of doing so for you, or Mother is > extremely happy with you and grants you the wish.. > > Let me explain the gravity of the situation by giving, one of the only 2 > examples I know myself. My first master, when hand picked by his master, > took 13yrs of solitude penance to reach where he was supposed to reach. I > will not go babbling his life style, but would like say that when he began, > he would eat, whatever he got, only asking once, at first house only, for > the complete day. If the house holders for some reason, didn't get him food, > or were late, then no food for the day. And this was from where he began for > his 13 yrs journey. so I hope you dare not ask, how his rules become more > strict in the later part of his penance. and BTW its not a story I heard > from my Grand Parents, who in turn heard it from there... > > I am not trying to scare, or give c.r.a.p. or make it an ego issue. Just > trying to state the facts. Thanks for your support DP i appreciate this and hope that people will begin to realise that is easy to say "i am jesus!" but really hard to walk on water. Mahahradanatha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 On 8/10/06, mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha > wrote: > > , "Dhirendra Pal Singh" > <dpal.singh wrote: > > > > On 8/9/06, mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha wrote: > > > > > > , "ecjensen_us" > > > <ecjensen_us@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > > > > All i ask is to stop for one moment and consider the possibility > >that > > > a lot of words now used in the west do not denote the same things > > > anymore. > > > > > > Sorry to jump in, when my knowledge is very little, but I do agree > with > > Mahahradantha. People have mixed and matched the words to their own > needs. > > He does have a very valid point, as I do see it in a lot of books I > read > > here in the west. That's one the reason I stopped reading books > written by > > folks here. Exceptions are always there. > > > > I mean if I wanted to study Tibetan tantra, or Chinese way, I would > actually > > want to read and learn it the way , Tibetans or Chinese do it.. not > the way > > some foreigner (even if the foreigner was from my county:) ) wrote > it and > > may have tainted it. Unless off course I make it an ego issue, and > is bent > > upon proving that Indians also have great knowledge of Chinese > tradition for > > example. Heck even if they did, I would still prefer to get it from > a > > Chinese Master.. But then that's me.. dumb ass me.. > > > > I was very happy that i had a western guru because the entrance was > easier and i could slowly approach the source. My point, is that it doesn't matter whether A guru is from east or west. Heck it doesn't matter if she/he is from mars, I am cool, provided he has that element of "GURU" in him or her. I mean a "True Master" is a "True Master" is a "True Master". Simple. But before I give my 100% to him/her I want to be dead sure that I am doing the right thing, I do not want to end up following someone like Lulu, now do I? When our first master met my Mataji (her elder brother had brought him to the house to get us as his disciple), the first thing she said to him was..." Look, If you going to tell me how to get up early, put a "deepak" in front of my mandir, and do an aarti, I know it already. I will cook, you can have the food and then go your way, no offence but I am not looking for it. However if you know "****" then i would like to be your disciple and learn it". And my first master laughed, and said he is impressed. He said that, no one has ever asked what she is asking, and said, yes he will make her, his disciple, and teach what she wants." Now I am dead certain if I said the same to the guru of today, they will be pissed and will kick me out. But then, once I have tasted "Amrit" its hard for me to settle on any other drink. > > > > > > Let me explain the gravity of the situation by giving, one of the > only 2 > > examples I know myself. My first master, when hand picked by his > master, > > took 13yrs of solitude penance to reach where he was supposed to > reach. I > > will not go babbling his life style, but would like say that when > he began, > > he would eat, whatever he got, only asking once, at first house > only, for > > the complete day. If the house holders for some reason, didn't get > him food, > > or were late, then no food for the day. And this was from where he > began for > > his 13 yrs journey. so I hope you dare not ask, how his rules > become more > > strict in the later part of his penance. and BTW its not a story I > heard > > from my Grand Parents, who in turn heard it from there... > > > > I am not trying to scare, or give c.r.a.p. or make it an ego issue. > Just > > trying to state the facts. > > > Thanks for your support DP i appreciate this and hope that people > will begin to realise that is easy to say "i am jesus!" but really > hard to walk on water. You are welcome, but I do honestly believe what you are saying is true, and that I say, not from reading books but from what I have seen personally. BTW I always say, words are cheap. I mean you can figure it out by the amount of talking I do.. ha ha. Its a no brainer. Off course when it comes to action that's when the problem start. Har Har Mahadev -- Thanks Dp [The force is feminine in nature] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 my friend you may take any fruit you choose. you are welcome to the mango if you like. as they say, the guest is God. take your pick from the fruit bowl. Kali will pick for me. as it is all Her Grace if i get anything at all. it is Her game, Her rules, Her play. to me, we are all visitors here, who among us really owns anything? , "mahahradanatha" <mahahradanatha wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 On 8/11/06, ecjensen_us <ecjensen_us > wrote: > > to me, we are all visitors here, who among us really owns anything? You are right about this thing for sure... , "mahahradanatha" > <mahahradanatha wrote: > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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