What is subtle body ?

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Without going too much into terminology, I will try to state

my question because I will err if I try to use terminology. My simple

understanding of Advaita is that normally what we call death in

English is more accurately called "dehanta" in Hindi (also Samskrit I

think), is only the end of the physical body. The sense of doership in

the preceeding births results in a subtle body which does not die.

Atman ofcourse is asangah, never born, never dies, never associated,

never disassociated. Now the question arises - what is this subtle

body ? How did this come into being ? Has it always been there ? What

about evolution ? I may have been a tiger in my previous birth or even

a tree - even they have subtle bodies ? Or the subtle body

automatically comes into existence after the first human birth due to

law of karma ? If yes, then Ishvara is the creator of subtle body

because Ishvara is not different from the laws of the universe. I kind

of doubt if this subject is discussed anywhere but please let me know

if it is.

regards,

Om Namah Sivaya

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "mahadevadvaita" <mahadevadvaita

wrote:

because Ishvara is not different from the laws of the universe. I

kind

> of doubt if this subject is discussed anywhere but please let me

know

> if it is.

> regards,

> Om Namah Sivaya

>

Namaste,M-ji,

 

Sankara goes into the consituents of the subtle in his teachings. The

subtle body is what we call the 'soul'. AJ Alston has a whole book on

it for from Shanti Sadan in London.

 

Essentially imho, all within illusion, the soul is the 'Ego' as a

string and all the other thoughts as a the sutra. In other word it

is 'mind'.

 

Where did it start, it didn't but it can end. So the soul is an

illusory entity, Iswara is the sum total of the Jivas and is also

illusory.

 

But if you want to attribute some reality to the subtle for arguments

sake, it is just finer material than the gross material body thats

all. However it is all within 'mind', and is mind with all its

vasanas, samskaras and karmas.

 

There is no way of explaining the beginning of something that didn't

ever happen, we can only describe the constituents of an illusion, or

observe a barren woman's son..That is why imho Ajativada is the

logical conclusion...............ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Tony OClery <aoclery > wrote: --- I

>

Namaste,M-ji,

Sankara goes into the consituents of the subtle in his teachings. The

subtle body is what we call the 'soul'. AJ Alston has a whole book on

it for from Shanti Sadan in London.

From

Sankarraman

Dear Tony,

Why go into the details of vedanta to define the subtle body. Every day dream experience that we undergo, and the onslaughts of thought that we experience in the waking state, go to prove the fact that we are the victims of the subtle body. Whereas when we have pleasurable experiences we don't care to think in terms of subtle body, the painful experiences make us ponder over this.

Regarding the book written by A.J.Alston, published by Shanti Sadan, I understand that he has given a detailed account of the philosophy of Sankara in regard to the nature of the soul, what is liberation, what is creation, in essence the advaita teachings as found in the Brahamasutras and interpreted by the Acharya. A person who cannot read the texts of Brahamasutras can find the books of A.J.Alston very useful. Are you referring to one of those volumes, especially the one entitled, "The nature of the soul according to Sanakra?" I have found the the volumes of A.J.Alston very useful. But, unfortunately no Indian publisher has published his works which I find in the Ramakrishnashram library. Could some memers throw some light on this matter?

with regards

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Now the question arises - what is this subtle body ? How did this come

into being ? Has it always been there ? What about evolution ? I may

have been a tiger in my previous birth or even a tree - even they have

subtle bodies ? Or the subtle body automatically comes into existence

after the first human birth due to law of karma ? If yes, then Ishvara

is the creator of subtle body because Ishvara is not different from

the laws of the universe.

 

Namaste

Some very simple and basic terms without much detail.

The subtle body is sookshma shareera.

It can be considered somewhat equivalent to the "spirit" in Western

terminology.

It constitutes our bodies' "inner" element which departs at the demise

of the body and based on the laws of karma finds another body to

exhaust some portion of the results of its actions. If it takes the

form of a human where-in it has free will then it can accumulate more

karma. In other bodies it can only exhaust the enjoined results of its

good and bad actions.

These laws of karma, etc are of course the handiwork of Ishwara - the

srshtikarta, the karmaphaladaata.

The sookshma shareera it is believed can take on any form of sentient

life both here on earth as well as in the heavens and the netherworld.

And so yes that would include tiger, tree, etc etc

 

Pranams and best wishes

 

Shyam

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "mahadevadvaita"

<mahadevadvaita wrote:

Srigurubhyo namaH

What is subtle body?

 

The subtle body called sukshma shareera is defined thus:

pancha-praana, manas, buddhi, the ten indriyas constituting the

fifteen items. These are made up of the pancha bhutas, the five

elements, in their pure, that is original form.

 

To explain:

The five elements - akasha, vayu, agni, jalam and prithvi originally

are in their un-mixed form, that is in their pure form. This is not

visible to the senses. The sukhsma shareera, the subtle body

consisting of the above items are made of these five elements.

 

The five pranas: prana, apana, vyana, udana and samana.

The manas : responsible for desiring, etc.

The buddhi: the determining faculty or the intellect (The ahankara or

the ego sense and the chittam the memory sense are subsumed in the

manas - buddhi duo)

The ten indriyas: the five sense organs - eye, nose, ear, tongue and

skin. the five motor organs - hands, legs, speech, the genital and

excretory organs.

 

While all the above are physical only, being products of the five

elements (which in their mixed up state becomes the gross body), they

constitute the sattva, rajas amshas of the five elements. Thus, the

manas is the sattvaguna amsha of the five elements. That is the

reason it is endowed with knowing, the reflection of the ATman falls

on it (just as a mirror is a reflecting medium). The motor organs

are made of the rajas amsha of the five elements, that is why they

are so active. The pranas are also of the rajas amsha of the five

elements. The sense organs are made of the sattva amsha of the five

elements. This is the reason why they are generators of knowledge

(of the external objects).

 

The subtle body is the bhoga-saadhanam, the medium of experience of

sukha and duhkha, for the jiva. It is as anaadi as the jiva. There

is no jiva without this. It is also called linga-sharira as it is an

indicator of the Atma that resides inmost.

 

While the gross body is subject to birth and death, the subtle body

continues till the jiva attains moksha. The subtle body is the

carrier of the karma vasanas and travels, or transmigrates, from one

body to another. All spiritual sadhana is directed at refining the

subtle body and finally annihilating it through knowledge, Atma

saakshaatkara.

 

Pranams,

subbu

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "subrahmanian_v"

<subrahmanian_v wrote:

>

> advaitin, "mahadevadvaita"

> <mahadevadvaita@> wrote:

> Srigurubhyo namaH

> What is subtle body?

>

> The subtle body called sukshma shareera is defined thus:

> pancha-praana, manas, buddhi, the ten indriyas constituting the

> fifteen items. These are made up of the pancha bhutas, the five

> elements, in their pure, that is original form.

Namaste,

 

The number fifteen should be actually seventeen.

Again, let me add that while the eyes, etc. and the hands, etc. are

seen in the physical, gross, body, still the shastra makes a

differentiation between the sockets, golakas, that are in the

physical body and the actual indiryas (both jnana and karma) that

only reside in those sockets in the gross body. Each indriya has a

devataa presiding over it. For example, Surya is the devataa for the

eye. Agni for speech. Indra for hands. A person enjoys the blessing

of that devataa and as a result is able to use that sense organ or

motor organ. Once this anugraha of the devataa is withdrawn as a

result of the jiva's exhausted punya phala, that indriya does not

function efficiently or totally stops functioning.

 

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sankarraman-ji,

 

Regarding the books by A. J. Alston on the teaching of Shankara, they are

published by Shanti Sadan as 'A Shankara Source Book Vols. 1 - 6'. They were

recently reprinted and are available direct from the publisher -

http://www.shanti-sadan.org/ - or from Amazon UK (I believe). I have only

read one of these - Vol. 2 Shankara on the Creation - but am prepared

unreservedly to recommend them all on the basis of this. You are right that,

to some degree, they are for those 'unable' to read the bhAShya but they

gather the material into topics, provide informed introductory comments and

give extensive direct quotations from all of Shankara's commentaries (not

just the brahmasUtra-s).

 

Best wishes,

 

Dennis

[Guest guest]

Namaste Dennis ji,

 

I possess the complete set of the Shankara Source book. I will second

your opinion on the quality of the work. One of the best and yet

underrated work on Shankara's teachings.

 

Does Alston deliver lectures on Vedanta in the UK or in any part of the world?

 

On 8/17/06, Dennis Waite <dwaite (AT) advaita (DOT) org.uk> wrote:

> Namaste Sankarraman-ji,

>

> Regarding the books by A. J. Alston on the teaching of Shankara, they are

> published by Shanti Sadan as 'A Shankara Source Book Vols. 1 - 6'. They were

> recently reprinted and are available direct from the publisher -

> http://www.shanti-sadan.org/ - or from Amazon UK (I believe). I have only

> read one of these - Vol. 2 Shankara on the Creation - but am prepared

> unreservedly to recommend them all on the basis of this. You are right that,

> to some degree, they are for those 'unable' to read the bhAShya but they

> gather the material into topics, provide informed introductory comments and

> give extensive direct quotations from all of Shankara's commentaries (not

> just the brahmasUtra-s).

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Dennis

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Kathirasan-ji,

 

Alston died in 2004, so no. He did, however, leave the wonderful legacy of

his Shankara Source Book (which took him 37 years to complete).

 

Best wishes,

 

Dennis

 

 

I possess the complete set of the Shankara Source book. I

will second

your opinion on the quality of the work. One of the best and

yet

underrated work on Shankara's teachings.

Does Alston deliver lectures on Vedanta in the UK or in any

part of the world?