Four Yogas and Enlightenment

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Dear Advaitins,

 

While I was going through gita I came across an interesting analysis

done by Swami Tapasyanandaji of Ramakrishna Order. I thought of

sharing it with all of you. It runs as under:

 

According to the Gita, Jnana as well as Bhakti discipline is each in

itself self-sufficient, and can take an aspirant to the highest.

Karma has however no place in the Jnana discipline except in the

early stages of a man's spiritual life; but in Bhakti, dedicated

karma is a part of its practice, and there is no opposition between

the two. Dedicated karma can also become the main discipline with

Bhakti as an aid and directive force. Great men of action with a

spiritual background are examples of this. Yoga as a scientific

system of concentration can be an aid in both bhakti and jnana. But

just as karma can be the main discipline, so yoga too can be the

main form of discipline, with bhakti and jnana as the directive

forces. Chapter 6 of the Gita is devoted to yoga in this sense as

the main discipline.

 

In fact it is un psychological to make a water-tight

compartmentalization of these four yogis. These yogas are based upon

the three aspects of the human mind –the intellectual, the emotional

and the volitional. Jnana yoga is essentially intellectual. Bhakti

is emotional, and karma and yoga volitional. The last requires some

explanation. In yoga or to be more accurate, in Raja yoga which is

the science of concentration, what is done is to use the will power

to make the mind one pointed. Twill is here used for an inward

purpose. In karma yoga also the application of will is the main

feature of the discipline, but it takes an external direction.

 

Now thinking, feeling and willing, which are the faculties of the

human mind on which these yogas are based do not exist in the human

min in isolation from one another. The human mind is a whole

constituted of these faculties and so all these faculties have in

some way or other to enter into all these yogas. The Vichara or the

discriminative process has to be supported by the whole of the

chastened emotional and volitional powers of the mind. If the mind

were to keep awake and dynamic instead of lapsing into dullness and

sleep. In bhakti discipline, if emotion is not supported by thought

and volition and understanding of one's true relationship with the

divine activised by will power, it will degenerate into vapid

sentimentalism or into a dull routine of procedures. So also Karma

Yoga, if it degenerates into mere karma, will become the restless

activity of a busy-body. Yoga as a practice of concentration will

become mere psychism and pursuit of occult powers, unless it has a

spiritual objective. Thus it will be seen that none of these four

disciplines can stand as water tight compartments. What is meant by

differentiating them into four is to put the stress on one or the

other of the mental faculties on which these disciplines rest. The

Gita accepts all these disciplines and gives equal importance to

all, though jnana and bhakti are shown as the two main and dominant

disciplines.

(End of quote)

 

 

In the classical advaita Vedanta it is said that one has to practice

karma first and then upasana and then one has to do atma Vichara or

Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana. My question is why upasana

itself cannot lead directly to moksha? The lord is all merciful and

omnipotent if an aspirant is sincere to the backbone doesn't he give

moksha by taking away all impurities in the mind of the devotee so

that the atman shines in its pristine purity?

 

In advaita Vedanta the karma yoga is considered preliminary state

and it is considered to be the lowest stage and often criticized and

looked down upon with contempt. It is not considered as an

independent path leading to moksha. If the karma yoga is backed by

bhakti and the spiritual aspirant serves the other fellow beings in

distress keeping in the mind that lord dwells in the all and in

serving another one is serving the lord himself( Sri Ramakrishna has

said Shiva Jnaner Jiva Seva) will that cannot be taken as an

independent path leading moksha?

 

The same author says elsewhere in his work:

 

In the light of the general teaching of the Gita, the followers of

the two ways may be held as two distinct types-the one discarding

the combination at a certain stage, and the other continuing the

combination till the end. The former, called in the Gita as the

samkhyas, following the path of knowledge, abandon all actions at

the very start itself if they are qualified for it, or at a certain

later stage, after being purified the yoga discipline, when they

take to a purely contemplative life. Through that discipline, they

come to the recognition of all multiplicity as mere appearance and

realize the unity of all existence in Brahman. The latter, called

the yogins, pursuing the path of combining devotion, contemplation

and dedicated action, surrender the fruits of all their actions in

the first stage of spiritual life and finally surrender their sense

of agency also, to that universal will, ishwara whose expression the

world of multiplicity is. They also attain to the divine. The former

approach may be described as ontological in setting and the latter,

volitional. The end is the realization of the unity of all existence

of sat-chid-ananda.

 

Swami Vivekananada has said,

 

Each soul is potentially divine.

 

The goal is to manifest this Divinity within by controlling

nature, external and internal.

 

Do this either by work, or worship, or psychic control, or

philosophy -- by one, or more, or all of these -- and be free.

 

This is the whole of religion. Doctrines, or dogmas, or

rituals, or books, or temples, or forms, are but secondary details.

 

Is it not to hold jnana yoga only as the path leading to liberation

is a onesided view?

 

I invite learned members of the group to share their views in this

matter.

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka.

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Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns > wrote:

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Pls remove the message if you feel this is outside the scope of

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Dear Vinayaka,

What you say is true as regards it being impossible for an individual to be exclusive in pursuit of the four paths. The individual is a conglomeration of these different temperaments.. But, ultimately one has to come to grips with his true reality, all these paths, if tenaciously pursued, leading him only to the vichara-marga. However, we should not be dogmatic.

yours sincerely,

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>

>>

>

> In the classical advaita Vedanta it is said that one has to practice

> karma first and then upasana and then one has to do atma Vichara or

> Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana. My question is why upasana

> itself cannot lead directly to moksha? The lord is all merciful and

> omnipotent if an aspirant is sincere to the backbone doesn't he give

> moksha by taking away all impurities in the mind of the devotee so

> that the atman shines in its pristine purity?

>

>

 

Namaste Br. Vinayaka-ji

 

"Why upAsanA itself cannot lead directly to moksha?" Yes, it will.

But there is a difference between the moksha through advaita sAdhanA

and the moksha got through UpAsanA. One becomes a jIvanmukta and the

other waits in Brahma-loka till the end of the Kalpa.

 

All this is elaborately discussed in Section 45 entitled "The NAdis of

the heart: JnAni's life rests, others' lives leave", in the series on

Mahaswamigal's discourses on Advaita SAdhanA, that is going on now.

Right now Section 35 is on. If you can wait till that section is

posted, you will have a complete authentic answer.

 

If you happen to understand Tamil, it is already at the URL:

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/tamil/dk6-119.htm

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

"V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk > wrote: advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>

>>

>

> In the classical advaita Vedanta it is said that one has to practice

> karma first and then upasana and then one has to do atma Vichara or

> Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana. My question is why upasana

> itself cannot lead directly to moksha? The lord is all merciful and

> omnipotent if an aspirant is sincere to the backbone doesn't he give

> moksha by taking away all impurities in the mind of the devotee so

> that the atman shines in its pristine purity?

Namaste Br. Vinayaka-ji

"Why upAsanA itself cannot lead directly to moksha?" Yes, it will.

But there is a difference between the moksha through advaita sAdhanA

and the moksha got through UpAsanA. One becomes a jIvanmukta and the

other waits in Brahma-loka till the end of the Kalpa.

From

Sankarraman

Respected Sir,

I have read the discourse of the Acharya relating to the concept of one moving to the plane of the Hiranyagarbha, and from there not returning to this samsara like ordinary mortals, but obtaining moksha at the end of the kalpa. This is being termed as Saguna Brahman, which is other than the direct realization of advaita, not involving movement in time and space. Is there is a difference between the advaitic realization, and the one of reaching the plane of the Iswara as regards the essential content of the release, that is not coming back to the samsara? Even in the case of a jivan-mukta, he too comes to complete perfection only at the time of the body coming to an end by death, which is termed as videha-mukti. Then, what is the distinction between the jivan-mukti and the entering into the world of the Lord, when both of them await the final release in the consummation of the

time-process. Further, does the person who merely enter into the world of Hiranyagarbha not have the advaitc realization, but out of the abundant grace of God is conferred realization. Pray, please elucidate these difficult concepts in simple words, so that I can attempt reading the discourses of the acharya for further grasping these ideas.

with respectful regards,

Sankarraman>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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> vinayaka_ns

 

> In the classical advaita Vedanta it is said that one has to practice

> karma first and then upasana and then one has to do atma Vichara or

> Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana. My question is why upasana

> itself cannot lead directly to moksha? The lord is all merciful and

> omnipotent if an aspirant is sincere to the backbone doesn't he give

> moksha by taking away all impurities in the mind of the devotee so

> that the atman shines in its pristine purity?

>

> In advaita Vedanta the karma yoga is considered preliminary state

> and it is considered to be the lowest stage and often criticized and

> looked down upon with contempt. It is not considered as an

> independent path leading to moksha. If the karma yoga is backed by

> bhakti and the spiritual aspirant serves the other fellow beings in

> distress keeping in the mind that lord dwells in the all and in

> serving another one is serving the lord himself( Sri Ramakrishna has

> said Shiva Jnaner Jiva Seva) will that cannot be taken as an

> independent path leading moksha?

 

Shree Vinayaka - PraNams.

 

Here is my understanding:

 

Krishna actually specifies only two paths - lokesmin dvividhA ... ; jnaana yoga and karma yoga based on the qualifications of the aspirant

Karma yoga prepares the mind for jnaana yoga. UpAsana comes under the category of karma yoga only - where one has to do something.

Bhakti is not separate yoga but is essential for both karma yoga and jnaana yoga.

The fundamental problem is - the ignorance of my true nature. Ignorance can only be removed by knowledge. Even in the krama mukti it is stated that one after going to Brahma loka has to gain the jnaana - otherwise he will return back as mentioned in the 8th Ch. of Gita and also discussed in B.sutras.

 

NakarmaNaa na prajayaa ... tyaagenaike amRitatvam .. I have to give up ignorance generated notions that I am 'this, this and this. etc and this can only be done by knowledge of knowing my true nature - there is no other way.

 

Knowledge cannot be willed - Krishna could have blessed Arjuna out of his infinite compassion but as to go through 700 slokas for Arjuna to grasp the why he has to act. Knowledge is not considered as purusha tantra - but for knowledge to take place the mind has to be prepared - true for any knowledge - For taking any course in the Universities they specify pre-requisites.. same way chitta sudhhi is a basic requirement for Atma jnaana.

Ignorance can be removed by knowledge alone and by nothing else. It is demanded by the nature of the problem not by fanaticism.

All other yogas are preparatory or means of purification of the mind to prepare it for jnaana.

 

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

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Namaste Vinayakaji,

Vinayakaji wrote:

"In the classical advaita Vedanta it is said that one has to practice

karma first and then upasana and then one has to do atma Vichara or

Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana. My question is why upasana

itself cannot lead directly to moksha? The lord is all merciful and

omnipotent if an aspirant is sincere to the backbone doesn't he give

moksha by taking away all impurities in the mind of the devotee so

that the atman shines in its pristine purity?"

Karma, an action is brought under three categories on the basis of means to accomplish, karaNa. That by which something is done is karaNa.

the three categories are:

1. kAyikam karma - physical karma - the ritualistic worship which includes the puja, agnihotra, yajna, all fire rituals, vaidikam karma etc. In kAyikam karma, other than the physical body, materials are also involved. That means it has to be collected, gathered, organised, arranged and performed.

2. vAcikam karma - oral karma.This can be a simple praise, stotra, shloka - srauta karma or veda pArayaNam, mantra - vaidikam, nAma japa, nama sankIrtanam,also bhajans, and the classical music too.

3. mAnasam karma - mental karma -meditation - dhyAna - upAsana falls under this category. It is a karma too. In mAnasam karma, there is a directed mental activity. It is a deliberate action. What ever is done kayikam and vAcikam can be done mAnasam too. Mind is capable of doing this.for eg. shiva mAnasa puja, devi mAnasapuja. All the steps of the puja are visualised menatlly ad performed mentally.

These yield adrShTaphalam anyway. Any action done yields results. What kind, when where, why, how - these are not in our hands. Isvara, the karma phala dAta is the bestower of the adR^IShTa phalam.

The sankalpa for these actions also matter. The sankalpa can be for gaining the dharma artha kama pursuits only.

The very same karma can be performed with a sankalpa for gaining citta shuddhi and citta naishcalyam.

We, as students of vedanta, have to do the puruShArtha nishcaya.

Vedanta repeatedly roars - j~nAnAt eva kaivalyam. j~nAnAt eva moxah. Knlowdge liberates. brahmaj~nAnam liberates.

citta shuddhi and citta naishcalyam prepares the student for gaining this j~nAna.

citta shuddhi and citta naishcalyam prepares the upAdhi to receive, to inquire, to meditate, to clear the doubts, and to clear the erroneous notions..

om namo narayanaya

Lakshmi Muthuswamy

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

"According to the Gita, Jnana as well as Bhakti discipline is each

in itself self-sufficient, and can take an aspirant to the highest.

 

My question is why upasana itself cannot lead directly to moksha?

The lord is all merciful and omnipotent if an aspirant is sincere to

the backbone doesn't he give moksha by taking away all impurities in

the mind of the devotee so that the atman shines in its pristine

purity?

Is it not to hold jnana yoga only as the path leading to liberation

is a onesided view?

 

Namaste Vinayaka-ji

 

Pranams.I am happy to give you my humble perspective.

 

I agree with the wonderful teachings of Swami Tapasyananda-ji.

My saashtang pranams to him.

 

 

>From my standpoint there is only one goal - moksha and there is only

one path - the spiritual path.

 

Now just as Swami Tapasyanandaji says "Now thinking, feeling and

willing, which are the faculties of the human mind on which these

yogas are based do not exist in the human mind in isolation from one

another. The human mind is a whole constituted of these faculties

and so all these faculties have in some way or other to enter into

all these yogas."

 

That is so true. Pursuing the spiritual path will always entail an

evolution in multiple facets of our personality all of which will

hopefully result in an annihilation of our ego-sense and our false

sense of separation from the whole.

 

Karmayoga is taken by many to mean service to the needy and the

poor, etc. This is not karmayoga. No doubt mahatmas like baba amte

and vinoba bhave etc are referred to as "karmayogis" but nobody can

do "karmayoga". Karma yoga is an attitude that I adopt to attain

chittanaischalyam and chittashuddhi for MYself. I am the one who

needs help,(not the so-called deprived people whom I feel need MY

help) - it is my ragadveshas that are out of control and I am the

one who finds it difficult to focus on contemplation, study, or

prayer, etc and it is MY mind that is wandering off in a thousand

directions. So I develop an attitude of surrender and dedication to

ishwara. "Yad Yad karma karoti tad tad akhilam shambo tavaradhanam" -

that is the attitude. "I am sufficiently deluded O Lord that even

though I am you and you are me, I still wonder where my next meal is

coming from, I still worry about mundane things in life, I still

allow lifes little worries and anxieties to prevent me from

contemplating on the only thing that will help me cross this Ocean

of Samsara. But O Benovelent Ishwara, I have come to You alone with

this recognition, and hence it is that as even I am performing all

these actions, I am dedicating them at Your altar."

With this attitude if I do my duty - be it a clerical job at a bank,

or overseeing a corporation as a CEO, or cleaning the streets as a

municipal worker, etc then that is karma yoga.

"mayi sarvani karmani

sannyasyadhyatma-cetasa

nirasir nirmamo bhutva

yudhyasva vigata-jvarah"

Now tell me how can karma yoga be possible without bhakti? It will

be a contradiction of the very idea of karmayoga.

 

With regards to disciplining the mind by Yoga, then is there any

progress possible in our spiritual journey before first developing

(what Patanjali so beautifully outlines as) yama (ahimsa satya

asteya brahmacharya aparigraha) and Niyama (saucha santosha tapas

svadhyaya and AGAIN Ishvarapranidhana) Asanas and pranayama can be

considered optional but dhyana and dharana are prerequisities for

both bhakti as well as jnana sadhana.

 

With regards to bhakti, only the higher Bhakti which involves

devotion to the Lord for the sake of knowing the Lord alone, with no

selfish ego-centric desires, is the only Bhakti that we refer to in

this context. Now how different is bhakti where-in there is an

intense longing to know the Lord different from mumukshutvam. It

isn't.

 

Ultimately it is Ishwara who blesses you with selfknowledge. How is

he going to do it - by presenting Himself in front of you in the

form of a Guru, a shrotriya brahmanishta.

 

If we do not recognize Ishwara in the form of a Guru, and are

awaiting a darshan in the form of a shanka-chakra-gada etc image

to "deliver us" - then that is an exercise in futility.

Lord krishna need have only shown his darshan to Arjun in that case.

At the same time if we do not regard the Guru, the shruti, our own

capacity to understand, - all these as Ishwara and His Grace, then

any philosophical contemplation or scholarly bookknowledge is an

equal exercise in futility.

 

Not recognizing our own teacher as Ishwara, who is rewarding us for

our bhakti, by giving us the message of "tat tvam asi" is mere

ignorance.

Claiming that our own selfeffort alone will get us moksha by intense

contemplation via the marga of "jnana yoga" is sheer arrogance.

 

What needs to be resolved is the false duality that my egosense has

superimposed - only Ishwara can remove that - no doubt about it -

but the only means available even to Him is to impart the teaching

of tat tvam asi - no doubt about this either.

 

With regards to gradations of what aspect of our personality needs

to be sharpened at every stage of our spiritual development, then

this has also been clearly marked out by Bhawaan Krishna

 

"mayy eva mana adhatsva

mayi buddhim nivesaya

nivasisyasi mayy eva

ata urdhvam na samsayah

atha cittam samadhatum

na saknosi mayi sthiram

abhyasa-yogena tato

mam icchaptum dhananjaya

abhyase 'py asamartho 'si

mat-karma-paramo bhava

mad-artham api karmani

kurvan siddhim avapsyasi

athaitad apy asakto 'si

kartum mad-yogam asritah

sarva-karma-phala-tyagam

tatah kuru yatatmavan"

 

So what you refer to as classical adavita teaching has been pointed

out here by Bhagwaan himself.

 

Lastly, the atman is already shining in its pristine purity! It is

our own ragadveshas that are blinding us. Bhakti to Ishwara can

certainly help reduce this, but the cure for avidya, the root cause

of these raga dveshas to begin with, can only be jnanam. And this

jnanam will be "given to us" by Ishwara if our selfeffort is sincere

our faith strong.

 

So where is the question of there being four paths or yogas?

There is no jnanayoga without bhakti, yama,niyama, etc and initially

developing an attitude of karmayoga as we begin and progress on this

one path.

 

Hari Om

Shri gurubhyoh namah

 

Shyam

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "shyam_md" <shyam_md wrote:

>

>

> So where is the question of there being four paths or yogas?

> There is no jnanayoga without bhakti, yama,niyama, etc and

initially

> developing an attitude of karmayoga as we begin and progress on

this

> one path.

>

> Hari Om

> Shri gurubhyoh namah

>

> Shyam

>

 

Wonderfully stated Shyam, KoTi Namaskarams for those exalting ideas!

 

Bhagavan has said: dadAmi buddhi yogam tam yena maam upayaanti te:

 

To those devotees steadfast in devotion to Me, I shall give the Jnana

by which they attain Me.

 

Om Tat Sat

subbu

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran

wrote:

>

>

>

> "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk

wrote:

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns@> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >

> > In the classical advaita Vedanta it is said that one has to

practice

> > karma first and then upasana and then one has to do atma

Vichara or

> > Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana. My question is why upasana

> > itself cannot lead directly to moksha? The lord is all

merciful and

> > omnipotent if an aspirant is sincere to the backbone doesn't

he give

> > moksha by taking away all impurities in the mind of the

devotee so

> > that the atman shines in its pristine purity?

>

> Namaste Br. Vinayaka-ji

>

> "Why upAsanA itself cannot lead directly to moksha?" Yes, it

will.

> But there is a difference between the moksha through advaita

sAdhanA

> and the moksha got through UpAsanA. One becomes a jIvanmukta

and the

> other waits in Brahma-loka till the end of the Kalpa.

>

> From

> Sankarraman

> Respected Sir,

>

I have read the discourse of the Acharya relating to the

concept of one moving to the plane of the Hiranyagarbha, and from

there not returning to this samsara like ordinary mortals, but

obtaining moksha at the end of the kalpa. This is being termed as

Saguna Brahman, which is other than the direct realization of

advaita, not involving movement in time and space. Is there is a

difference between the advaitic realization, and the one of

reaching the plane of the Iswara as regards the essential content

of the release, that is not coming back to the samsara? Even in the

case of a jivan-mukta, he too comes to complete perfection only at

the time of the body coming to an end by death, which is termed as

videha-mukti. Then, what is the distinction between the jivan-mukti

and the entering into the world of the Lord, when both of them

await the final release in the consummation of the

> time-process. Further, does the person who merely enter into the

world of Hiranyagarbha not have the advaitc realization, but out of

the abundant grace of God is conferred realization. Pray, please

elucidate these difficult concepts in simple words, so that I can

attempt reading the discourses of the acharya for further grasping

these ideas.

>

> with respectful regards,

> Sankarraman>

 

Dear Sir,

 

This is what i had in mind. If the saguna ishwara upasana can confer

us the krama mukti the same saguna upasana why it cannot give

jivanmukti here and now.

 

Sri Shyam Ji also beautifully writes

 

With regards to bhakti, only the higher Bhakti which involves

devotion to the Lord for the sake of knowing the Lord alone, with no

selfish ego-centric desires, is the only Bhakti that we refer to in

this context. Now how different is bhakti where-in there is an

intense longing to know the Lord different from mumukshutvam. It

isn't.

 

It is called the para bhakti or supreme devotion. If the devotee has

this why it cannot confer jivan mukti here and now is the question.

 

Samartha Ramdas is the example for this. His main sadhana was

chanting of the Name of the Lord Nama and his worship. He did if i

am not wrong for 12 years conteneously and he did not get initiated

into vedantic study and meditation. But he became jivanmukta and a

knower of brahman.

 

Secondly Sri Ramakrishna when he was practicing pure devotion to the

mother kali the first vision he had at the culmination of the

sadhana was not the form of the divine mother but as per his

discription it was transcendental bliss and consciousness. He

attained brahman hood without being initiated into vedantic study.

Ofcourse later he did get initiated into sanyas and practiced

vedanta and attained samadhi.

 

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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>

> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns > wrote: advaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran

wrote:

>

>

>

>

wrote:

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns@> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

>

I have read the discourse of the Acharya relating to the

concept of one moving to the plane of the Hiranyagarbha, and from

there not returning to this samsara like ordinary mortals, but

obtaining moksha at the end of the kalpa.

From

Sankarraman

May I state that in my reference to the Acharya I have meant only His Holiness, Sri Chandrasekara Saraswati ( Kanchi Periyaval ), and not Adi Sankara. The chapter Advaita Sadana contains the concept of the world of Hiranyagarbha to which the extraordinary beings repair, and obtain release from there, which is said to be different from the Jivan-mukta status conferred by the advaita jnana. My question is what could be the difference in the content of both the types of realization once you concede that both of them liberate you. After all, the world of Hiranyagarbha cannot produce any future karma causing further objective knowledge. From what I understand I believe that the world of Hiranyagarbha is like deep sleep free from time. Then, there is no question of the advaitic realization being superior to the world of Hiranyagarbha unless one asserts that the world of Hiranyagarbha is also time-bound, and not

eternal, even though admitting of a long duration. Swamy Krishnananda of the Sivananda Ashram in his discourse on Brahmasutras says that the Hiranyagarbha realization is not complete, and that it lasts only till the time of the cosmic dissolution, after which even those in that world have to repair to this terrestrial existence to pursue their quest, and obtain the final realization. Swamy Nikhilananda, the author of the famous work, "Gospel of Ramakrishna," an authority on the Upanishads, the commentary of Sankara, says in his introduction to the Upanishads that the Hiranyagharba world is only synonymous with the Kingdom of Heaven, spoken by Jesus Christe and the pre-Christian religions, and the dualistic and the qualified non-dualistic schools of Hinduism. As this is a very abstruse subject, involving a lot of contradictions as it were, confusing even the earnest unless they are merely satisfied with mere high-falutin ideas, would some elaborate on this

topic? The commentary of Sankara on Upanishads, rendered into English by Sri Nikhilananda is an excellent one, having been published by the New york Cent re of Ramakrishnashram. I don't know as to why the Ramakrishna authorities have not cared to bring out an Indian edition, which the seekers should find invaluable.

with respectful regards

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

This thread is very enlightening. Thanks to all.

 

I have a doubt.

 

Aren't Jnanam and Bhakti same?

 

I am not a Jnani because I still identify with my Ego and I am ignorant.

And I truly don't know what Bhakti is. Yes, I go to temples and do

prayers etc but I that is not Bhakti. I am unable to surrender

completely because of my ego and ignorance, I think.

 

Then if I remove Ego and Ignorance have I not become a Jnani and a

Bhakta? Isn't that at the point of singularity both Jnanam and Bhakti

merge into one?

 

You can tell that I am confused. Appreciate an answer.

 

PraNamams

 

Sudesh

[Guest guest]

"He attained brahman hood without being initiated into vedantic study."

 

Pranams Vinayaka-ji

 

>From my limited knowledge of Paramahamsa Ramakrihna's life I think He

was taught advaita and vedanta by Totapuri and there is a well known

account about how He told Totapuri that every time he tried to

contemplate on Brahman, the extremely beautiful image of Mother

Goddess kept appearing in front of Him - Totapuri now instructed him

to sever the image of the Mother into two with a sword of

discrimination - and thence His Holiness immediately went into

nirvikalpa samadhi for many days!!

 

If there are errors in my understanding or recounting of this story

any devotees of Ramakrishna-ji may please forgive me.

 

On a more general note, we do see people with extraordinarily blessed

intellects who have knowledge of certain things from birth itself -

composers with piano knowledge and so on.

 

Whenever we encounter such Vibhutis of Bhagwan as Samarth Ramadas-ji

or Ramana Maharshi who seem to gain this knowledge with no formal

teaching that we know of, we can say that perhaps they attained this

jnana in their previous birth itself or at some unknown portion of

their current birth which has not been historically accounted for.

 

His ways are known only to Him!

 

A jivanmukta by definition needs to have the firm knowledge that he is

nonseparate from the whole and this requires the death of avidya.

 

Pranams,

 

Hari Om

Shyam

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Sudesh:

 

ProfVk's latest posting provides the answer to your question.

advaitin/message/32575\

 

Kanchi Mahaswamigal states that ultimately a Janani is a true Bhakta

and also the Karma Yogi. I strongly recommend you to read the entire

thread of "Kanchi Maha-Swamigal's Discourses on Advaita Saadhanaa."

 

The list has previous discussion on the same topic and you can review

the following thread - Bhakti and Jnanam initiated by Sri Subbu.

 

In conclusion, we can state that Bhakti Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Karma Yoga

are the 'means' to reach the goal of liberation. At the culmination

point they all get superimposed with the ultimate reality - the Brahman!

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "Sudesh Pillutla" <sudeshpillutla

wrote:

>

>

> This thread is very enlightening. Thanks to all.

>

> I have a doubt.

>

> Aren't Jnanam and Bhakti same?

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "shyam_md" <shyam_md wrote:

>

> "He attained brahman hood without being initiated into vedantic

study."

>

> Pranams Vinayaka-ji

>

> From my limited knowledge of Paramahamsa Ramakrihna's life I think

He

> was taught advaita and vedanta by Totapuri and there is a well

known

> account about how He told Totapuri that every time he tried to

> contemplate on Brahman, the extremely beautiful image of Mother

> Goddess kept appearing in front of Him - Totapuri now instructed

him

> to sever the image of the Mother into two with a sword of

> discrimination - and thence His Holiness immediately went into

> nirvikalpa samadhi for many days!!

>

> If there are errors in my understanding or recounting of this

story

> any devotees of Ramakrishna-ji may please forgive me.

>

> On a more general note, we do see people with extraordinarily

blessed

> intellects who have knowledge of certain things from birth itself -

 

Dear Shyam Ji,

 

Namaste,

 

What you say is true. These are exceptional cases. While tota puri

was teaching to meditate on the brahman Sri Ramakrishna's only

obstacle of the beautiful bewitching form of divine mother. He

reached nirvikalpa state as stated by you above.

 

But one point i would like to say. He had many gurus from different

cults of hinduism as well as chirstianity and islam. He followed

their advice meticulosly as any other sadhaka and attained the very

same goal mentioned in their religious books.

 

Strage fact is- He tells in one place that none of the teachers

taught him any new things. That they taught him which was already

known.If he knew brahman before the arrrival of tota why did he

encountered difficulty in attaining nirvikalpa state!He himself

knows his leela.

 

I thank you for your beautiful reply. Many subtle points you have

caught righly. I really enjoyed reading it. Infact i do agree to the

majority of whay you say.

 

May the blessings of the bhagavadpada be always with you.

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka