Clarifications pertaining to Brahma Loka

[Guest guest]

Srigurubhyo NamaH

Namaste sadhakas,

 

Here are some clarifications pertaining to Brahma Loka.

 

The Bhagavad Gita VIII.16 says that all lokas upto and inclusive of

the Brahma loka are not eternal, that is, the jivas that attain to

those lokas are subject to return. As this point requires a

clarification, some commentators have taken the pains to provide the

same:

 

The Nilakanthi commentary clarifies: Those who have reached

Brahmaloka by performing dahara-vidya upaasana will attain Atma

Jnanam there and become finally liberated along with Brahma at the

end of that kalpa and therefore will not return to this samsara. But

those who attain Brahmaloka by performing panchaagni-vidya, having

not performed the upasana on Parameshwara, the Supreme God, will

return to acquire some birth or the other, without attaining

liberating knowledge.

 

This has been clarified in the Ratnaprabha gloss at the end of the

Brahmasutra bhashya on the last Sutra. Thus the norm is: Meditation

on God brings about knowledge of saguna Brahman which takes that

meditator to Brahmaloka and qualifies him for Atma jnanam to be

received from Brahma Himself and thereby liberates the meditator.

 

This is certainly not on par with Jivanmukti that is had here

itself. The difference between an aspirant after moksha here itself

and the one who is engaged in saguna upasana is vast. While the

former transcends the three gunas and acquires Atma jnanam by

extraordinary effort, after graduating from saguna upasana as a

stepping stone, the latter does not put efforts to transcend the

saguna- brahma upasana and reach the Nirguna Jnanam.

 

Again, the one who has gone to Brahma loka leaves this world as an

ajnani and remains there as an ajnani till he gains the Atma Jnanam.

On the other hand, the jivanmukta attains liberation from samsara and

rebirth here itself, immediately upon attaining the sakshatkara, and

remains as a jnani till the fall of the body.

 

It would be pertinent to see what the Acharya says in the commentary

for the Kathopanishad mantra 2.3.5:

 

Only in brahmaloka is the vision (of the Atman in one's intellect),

very distinct as in the case of shade and light. But that world is

difficult to attain, being the result of many special kinds of work

(karma) and knowledge (upasana). Therefore, efforts should be made

for the realization of the Self here itself. This is the idea (of

this mantra).(unquote)

 

May all aspirants attain the Liberating Realization Here Itself.

 

Pranams to all,

Subbu

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

> Again, the one who has gone to Brahma loka leaves this world as an

> ajnani and remains there as an ajnani till he gains the Atma

Jnanam.

> On the other hand, the jivanmukta attains liberation from samsara

and

> rebirth here itself, immediately upon attaining the sakshatkara,

and

> remains as a jnani till the fall of the body.

 

 

Dear Subbuji,

 

Namaste,

 

Nobody can deny the superiority of the jivanmukti to the ascendence

of the jiva to the brahmaloka. Ajnani will be ajnani in whatever

plane of existence. It is said the brahma will impart the knowledge

of advaita to the aspirants and as you said they will merge in the

absolute at the end of the kalpa together with brahma.

 

But sir fashion of now-a-days is that both acharyas and the students

think that once they finish the prastanatraya and have

the 'intellectual understanding' of the scriptures they have become

jivan muktas. They start looking down on the saguna upasakas as

manda buddis, ignorant people etc etc. They dare to ridicule the

nirvikalpa samadhi also as if they are already in sahaja samadhi.

This i fear completely stop the sadhana of the sadhakas. Only after

the aparokshanubhuti that one becomes jivan mukta and not before.

If you ask them what about realisation and have you got true wisdom

again they will say I AM THAT already! and they classify the people

seeking genuine spiritual experience as abnormal and mystery

mongers.Some say that this is the exact reason why Bhagavan buddha

did not tell whether god exist or not but kept absolute silence.

Because people believed that they are brahman and never tried to

realise!

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Vinayaka:

 

The points you have raised are quite valid, and the Lord provided us

with the vivekam (discriminating intellect) to recognize 'true

claims' and 'false claims.' In Vedic times even the Rishis have been

graded according to their level of acheivement with the terms -

Rishi, Maharishi, Rajarishi and Brahmarishi. Also the Saptharishis (7

Rishis) have been mentioned in prehistoric Brahmanas - Bharadvaja,

Vishvamitra, Jamadagni, Vasishtha, Kashyapa, and Atri.

 

Most of the modern time acharyas (except for few exceptions) fall

into the category of 'Vedanta Scholars' and they should be equated as

professors and teachers of Vedanta. After intense training at the

Vedanta institutions (Ramakrishna Mission, Chinmaya Mission, Arsha

Vidhya Gurukulam, etc.) they can become scholars. Becoming Jivamukta

is like 'sprouting' a spontaneous germination into new life. Quite a

few of the acharyas that I know are honest and humble. They will not

claim any superiority over others and on the contrary they respect

the dedicated, knowledgeable and service oriented sadhakas (seekers).

There is a saying in Tamil, 'niraikudam thalumbathu' which means that

those who are incomplete only makes most of the noises!

 

In conclusion, your point is well taken and we should be vigilent and

should always be ready to use our vivekam to discriminate between the

real and unreal jivamuktas!

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> Nobody can deny the superiority of the jivanmukti to the ascendence

> of the jiva to the brahmaloka. Ajnani will be ajnani in whatever

> plane of existence. It is said the brahma will impart the knowledge

> of advaita to the aspirants and as you said they will merge in the

> absolute at the end of the kalpa together with brahma.

>

> But sir fashion of now-a-days is that both acharyas and the

students

> think that once they finish the prastanatraya and have

> the 'intellectual understanding' of the scriptures they have become

> jivan muktas. They start looking down on the saguna upasakas as

> manda buddis, ignorant people etc etc. They dare to ridicule the

> nirvikalpa samadhi also as if they are already in sahaja samadhi.

> This i fear completely stop the sadhana of the sadhakas. Only after

> the aparokshanubhuti that one becomes jivan mukta and not before.

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins,

 

Here is what Swami Vivekananda says about brahma loka:

 

 

All these spheres are products of matter and energy, or what samkhya

philosophy calls akasha and prana, in varying degrees. The lowest or

the most condensed is the solar sphere, consisting of the visible

universe, in which prana appears as physical force and akasha as

sense-perceived matter. The next is the lunar shpere, which

surrounds the solar sphere. This is not the moon at all, but the

habitation of the gods. In this sphere prana appears as the psychic

forces and akasha as the tanmatras, or fine, rudimentary elements.

Beyond this is the electric sphere, that is to say, a condition in

which prana is almost inseparable from akasha; there one can hardly

tell whether electricity is force or matter. Next is brahma loka,

where prana and akasha do not exist as separate entities; both are

merged in the mind-stuff, the primal energy. In the absence of prana

and akasha, the jiva, or individal soul, contemplates the whole

universe as the sum total of the cosmic mind. This appears as a

purusha, an abstract universal soul, yet not the absolute, for still

there is multiplicity. From this sphere the jiva subsequently finds

his way to unity, which is the end and goal of the earthly

evolution.

 

According to non-dualistic vedanta these spheres are only vision

that arise in succession before the soul, which itself neither comes

not goes. The sense-perceived world in which a man lives is a

similar vision. AT the time of dissolution these visions gradually

disappear, the gross merging in the fine. The purpose of the hindu

philosopers in treating of cosmology is to awaken in man's heart a

sirit of detachment from the relative universe.

 

The experience of happiness in different planes or spheres after

death is transitory. The dwellers in those planes come back to earth

and commence again their life of pain and suffering.Even the most

fortunate dwellers in brahmaloka must wait a long time before they

attain complete liberation. On the other hand, self-knowledge which

can be attained by every human being, confers upon its possessor

liberation in this very life. He does not have to wait for a future

time to taste the bliss of immortality. This attainment of

liberation through self-knowledge, while living in a physical body,

is the goal of human life. The hindu scriptures treat of the various

cycles and planes and spheres, and also of the various courses open

to the soul after death in order to spur men to strive for self-

knowledge and the attainment of liberation here on earth.

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns > wrote:

Dear Advaitins,

Here is what Swami Vivekananda says about brahma loka:

All these spheres are products of matter and energy, or what samkhya

philosophy calls akasha and prana, in varying degrees. In the absence of prana

and akasha, the jiva, or individual soul, contemplates the whole

universe as the sum total of the cosmic mind. This appears as a

purusha, an abstract universal soul, yet not the absolute, for still

there is multiplicity. From this sphere the jiva subsequently finds

his way to unity, which is the end and goal of the earthly

evolution.

According to non-dualistic Vedanta these spheres are only vision

that arise in succession before the soul, which itself neither comes

not goes. The sense-perceived world in which a man lives is a

similar vision. AT the time of dissolution these visions gradually

disappear, the gross merging in the fine. The purpose of the Hindu

philosophers in treating of cosmology is to awaken in man's heart a

sirit of detachment from the relative universe.

From

Sankarraman

It is as Bhaghavan says that only with the rise of the, 'I am the body,' idea all the worlds of time-space, the construct of thought arise. When the I thought merges in the ajnana in sushupti, there is potentiality of ignorance. If we spiritually discover the locus of this anjana, we will understand this creation to be only illusory, and not seek any causal theories to explain it. Bhghavan says that the different cosmological theories contained in the Upanishads are not by way of establishing the reality of the world, but for creating a thirst in the minds of people for self-knowledge from the level of their understanding. Since the intellect which is the base for all these creations and the theories is a itself the product of Maya, all these worlds etc do not brooke enquiry. Just as we cannot explain the content of the dream world or analyse the causation of that world, we cannot explain the import of the different

worlds except from an empirical standpoint. Pancadasi ruthlessly attributes all creation only to Maya. We have to accept only the truth that all these worlds rest only in consciousness, and any understanding of oneself as being in the world, and seeking freedom in that world, rather than the other way about, will not give a liberating knowledge. Only the understanding of oneself as pure consciousness bereft of all limiting adjuncts is the first and last freedom.

with warm regards,

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Vinayaka" <vinayaka_ns wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Advaitins,

>

> Here is what Swami Vivekananda says about brahma loka:

> The experience of happiness in different planes or spheres after

> death is transitory. The dwellers in those planes come back to

earth

> and commence again their life of pain and suffering.Even the most

> fortunate dwellers in brahmaloka must wait a long time before they

> attain complete liberation. On the other hand, self-knowledge which

> can be attained by every human being, confers upon its possessor

> liberation in this very life. He does not have to wait for a future

> time to taste the bliss of immortality. This attainment of

> liberation through self-knowledge, while living in a physical body,

> is the goal of human life. The hindu scriptures treat of the

various cycles and planes and spheres, and also of the various

courses open to the soul after death in order to spur men to strive

for self- knowledge and the attainment of liberation here on earth.

>

 

Srigurubhyo NamaH

Namaste,

 

The above idea is found in the Brahmasutra iii.i.i.8 - 11.

In this adhikarana consisting of four sutras, the discussion is on

whether or not the jiva that goes to swarga comes back with unspent

karma. In the prima facie view, he spends all his karma in heaven

and he may not return to samsara. In the final view, siddhanta, it

is established that the jiva does not exhaust all the karma in swarga

but returns with residual karma to samsara. Only upon Self-

realization does all karma become extinguished. The final lesson of

the discussion is: Since return to samsara from other lokas is

certain, this study gives rise to vairagya, dispassion.

 

Thank you for presenting the above paragraph.

 

On another note, as you have pointed out in the above post, although

finally from the Ultimate standpoint, the various lokas are only

imaginary, yet, the Upanishads treat of them not without purpose. It

is impossible to an aspirant to treat all other lokas as mithya while

treating this loka as satyam. If any aspirant is able to realize

this world as mithya, automatically the other lokas also become

mithya for him. But not otherwise. Bhagavan Ramana has, in reply to

a questioner, said that the other lokas are as real or as unreal as

this loka.

 

Pranams,

subbu

Om Tat Sat