Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 If Brahman is Ishwara and Ishwara is Brahman, what does it matter if we do not recognize Ishwara or reject Ishwara as a concept? Why not focus on self-enquiry alone and try to ascertain my identity with Brahman? First of all for any expedition on your part, you require Grace. Recognizing the need for Grace is the first step towards acquiring it. Why do I need Grace? Because I am limited. There are only a minute number of things I have control over. I need a healthy body, a healthy mind, the capacity to see, read, hear, assimilate, memorize, intuit, etc etc I need Grace to find the right Guru, and the Grace to recognize him and his teaching as my saving discpline. That Grace can only be obtained by my effort - and that effort consists in prayer.And this prayer can be to any God or Godpriniciple - it matters not if it is Christ, Allah, Krishna, Shiva, Durga, Mahavira, etc etc. He knows when you call His name! In a big cyclonic storm a mother sits with her 2 year old child in a poorly lit room. The wind is blowing hard, the waters are poring down violently. The mother is highly anxious. The child is playing with his toy. Why? Because he has his mother sitting with him. As long as his mother is with him, he has unshakeable faith that nothing untoward can happen to him, he is protected. In this case, that faith is not exactly wellfounded because the mother really is in position to save eiter of them should the levee break. In our case too, there is the potential for violent thunderstorms at all times. And we do not even have a weather channel to warn us of upcoming inclement weather. Illness to us, diseases for our near and dear ones, even death, personal loss, financial loss or even gain, natural calamaties can befall us - rather very likely will befall us at sometime. In these circumstances, maintaining chittanaischalyam may prove impossible - what saves you from that? - faith. Just like that 2 yr old, if we develop unshakable faith and shraddha in our Divine Mother, then no matter what the happenings in my life are I know they are not going to touch me beyond a point - i have Ishwara in my corner. Even if I am an so called advanced vedantic student - I have read all that is to be read and understood all that is to be understood - if I have not attained nishta in brahman, it means I am still lacking in Grace. I am still lacking in effort to not deserve that Grace. Only by His will can you enter His domain. He will reveal his innermost self to you, and you will see it to be your own self. Ramana Maharshi puts it beautifully - "veshahaanatah svaatmadarshanam ishaadarshanam svaatmarupatah" By removal of these costimes there is appreciation of ones own self and that is the vision of Ishwara as ones own essential nature!! "Asitagirisamam Syaat Kajjalam Sindhu Paatre Surataruvarashaakhaa lekhani patram urvi likhati yadi grheetva sharada sarva kaalam tadapi tava gunaana eesha param na yaati" If no less than Ma Sharada, the goddess of knowledge, uses each and every one of all the great trees of the world and fashions a pen and uses the ink from every drop of water in the majestic pacific atlantic and indian oceans and keeps writing on the entire earth as the writing leaf, and that too for eternity - till the end of time - even then O Isha, your glories will remain unsung, the limit of thine virtues will not be reached!! Shri Gurubhyoh namah Shyam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 advaitin, "shyam_md" <shyam_md wrote: > > If Brahman is Ishwara and Ishwara is Brahman, what does it matter if > we do not recognize Ishwara or reject Ishwara as a concept? Why not > focus on self-enquiry alone and try to ascertain my identity with Brahman? > First of all for any expedition on your part, you require Grace. > Recognizing the need for Grace is the first step towards acquiring it. > Why do I need Grace? Because I am limited. There are only a minute > number of things I have control over. I need a healthy body, a healthy > mind, the capacity to see, read, hear, assimilate, memorize, intuit, > etc etc I need Grace to find the right Guru, and the Grace to > recognize him and his teaching as my saving discpline. > That Grace can only be obtained by my effort - and that effort > consists in prayer.And this prayer can be to any God or Godpriniciple > - it matters not if it is Christ, Allah, Krishna, Shiva, Durga, > Mahavira, etc etc. He knows when you call His name! > Namaste, Shyam-ji and all Thank you Shyam for those two nice articles on Ishwara and advaita. I did a random search on the topic of Ishvara, from some of the earlier posts on this list . The following came up:(Note that this is not exhaustive at all). There is a thread on Saguna Brahman = mAyA? starting from #16411 going on up to 16446 in which Sada-ji has contributed significantly. Some others are: #30610: Question on Ishvara #30609: Doubt about Gita 5.14 #28205:Creation in Shruti and Gita Ch.9 #26639: Existence of Ishvara not mAyA. Or is it? (Sadananda) #27790: KDAS-2: Moksha is by Grace of God (Mahaswamigal) #5280, 5282, 5289: Bhakti according to Shankara. Advaita Bhakti 27622: Knowledge of Non-duality from Bhagavatam VII - Ch.15 I am sure there are many many more. It is not easy to spend the time to search for them all. And I am sure it must be more difficult to read them all! PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Namaste Shyamji, Many thanks for the 2 wonderful posts. I suppose advaita is related not only to Ishwara but also to poetry for your mails were more poetry than prose. Thanks once again, praNAms, Venkat On 8/19/06, shyam_md <shyam_md > wrote: > > If Brahman is Ishwara and Ishwara is Brahman, what does it matter if > we do not recognize Ishwara or reject Ishwara as a concept? Why not > focus on self-enquiry alone and try to ascertain my identity with Brahman? > First of all for any expedition on your part, you require Grace. > Recognizing the need for Grace is the first step towards acquiring it. > Why do I need Grace? Because I am limited. There are only a minute > number of things I have control over. I need a healthy body, a healthy > mind, the capacity to see, read, hear, assimilate, memorize, intuit, > etc etc I need Grace to find the right Guru, and the Grace to > recognize him and his teaching as my saving discpline. > That Grace can only be obtained by my effort - and that effort > consists in prayer.And this prayer can be to any God or Godpriniciple > - it matters not if it is Christ, Allah, Krishna, Shiva, Durga, > Mahavira, etc etc. He knows when you call His name! > > In a big cyclonic storm a mother sits with her 2 year old child in a > poorly lit room. The wind is blowing hard, the waters are poring down > violently. The mother is highly anxious. The child is playing with his > toy. Why? Because he has his mother sitting with him. As long as his > mother is with him, he has unshakeable faith that nothing untoward can > happen to him, he is protected. In this case, that faith is not > exactly wellfounded because the mother really is in position to save > eiter of them should the levee break. In our case too, there is the > potential for violent thunderstorms at all times. And we do not even > have a weather channel to warn us of upcoming inclement weather. > Illness to us, diseases for our near and dear ones, even death, > personal loss, financial loss or even gain, natural calamaties can > befall us - rather very likely will befall us at sometime. In these > circumstances, maintaining chittanaischalyam may prove impossible - > what saves you from that? - faith. Just like that 2 yr old, if we > develop unshakable faith and shraddha in our Divine Mother, then no > matter what the happenings in my life are I know they are not going to > touch me beyond a point - i have Ishwara in my corner. > > Even if I am an so called advanced vedantic student - I have read all > that is to be read and understood all that is to be understood - if I > have not attained nishta in brahman, it means I am still lacking in > Grace. I am still lacking in effort to not deserve that Grace. Only by > His will can you enter His domain. He will reveal his innermost self > to you, and you will see it to be your own self. > > Ramana Maharshi puts it beautifully - > "veshahaanatah svaatmadarshanam ishaadarshanam svaatmarupatah" > > By removal of these costimes there is appreciation of ones own self > and that is the vision of Ishwara as ones own essential nature!! > > "Asitagirisamam Syaat Kajjalam Sindhu Paatre > Surataruvarashaakhaa lekhani patram urvi > likhati yadi grheetva sharada sarva kaalam > tadapi tava gunaana eesha param na yaati" > > If no less than Ma Sharada, the goddess of knowledge, uses each and > every one of all the great trees of the world and fashions a pen and > uses the ink from every drop of water in the majestic pacific atlantic > and indian oceans and keeps writing on the entire earth as the writing > leaf, and that too for eternity - till the end of time - even then O > Isha, your glories will remain unsung, the limit of thine virtues will > not be reached!! > > Shri Gurubhyoh namah > Shyam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 > First of all for any expedition on your part, you require Grace. > Recognizing the need for Grace is the first step towards acquiring it. > Why do I need Grace? Because I am limited. There are only a minute > number of things I have control over. I need a healthy body, a healthy > mind, the capacity to see, read, hear, assimilate, memorize, intuit, > etc etc I need Grace to find the right Guru, and the Grace to > recognize him and his teaching as my saving discpline. > That Grace can only be obtained by my effort - and that effort > consists in prayer.And this prayer can be to any God or Godpriniciple > - it matters not if it is Christ, Allah, Krishna, Shiva, Durga, > Mahavira, etc etc. He knows when you call His name! Dear Shyam Ji, Namaste, Sri Ramarkishna use to say-People cannot realise god the divine mother graciously allows them to. The Master used to say:" Brahman weeps when ensnared in the meshes of maya. You may close your eyes and reason, 'there is no thorn, nothing to prick,; but you cry out in pain as soon as your hand is pricked by a thorn. Similarly, you may reason that there is no such thing as birth or death, virtue or vice, pain or miser, hunder or thirst-that you are eternal brahman, the existence-knowledge-bliss absolute. But the moment your body succumbs to illness, or your mind is overcome by temptation, or you commit a transgression distracted by seemingly sweet enjoyment of lust and gold, you forget your high philosophy and are overwhelemed by delusion and its painful consequences. Therefore know for certain that no one can attain self-knowledge and become free from misery without God's grace and the divine mother unlocking the door. JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA Yours in the lord, Br. vinayaka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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