Developing belief in God ?

[Guest guest]

List Moderator's Note: Welcome to the list Sri Sundeep and we look forward to your active participation with thoughtful questions and comments. Members may be able to provide with greater assistance if they know your background better. Since you have the 'faith' to believe that you can develop 'firm belief and love for god' you will certainly able to achieve what you believe. Follow closely the thread of discussions - "Self, the focus of the Bhagavad Gita," which will pave you the way attain the goal of developing firm belief and love for SELF (Atman or God).

------------------------------

 

 

Dear friends,

I am new to this group. I am more of an agnostic, but want to develope faith in God.

I would like to know, the simplest way to develope firm belief and love for God.

Please share your valuable opinion.

regards

Sundeep

 

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Namaste dear Sri Sundeep:

 

In our daily life we always face one of the following situations:

Win-win situation: your decision brings happiness to you and

everyone else.

Win-lose situation : Your decision brings happiness to you by

depriving someone's happiness.

Lose-win situation: Your decision brings happiness to someone but

causing your unhappiness.

Lose- lose situation: Your decision brings unhappiness to everyone

including you.

 

By using the simple rule of thumb, a win-win proposal is always

preferable to the other three choices. By the same rule, no rational

human being will choose a lose-lose situation. Those who are very

selfish will likely choose the Win-lose situation. A few may choose

lose-win situations and reasons vary according to the role they play

and for example: parents will provide comforts to their children by

sacrificing their own comforts.

 

Now let us try to understand the pros and cons of the two options:

(1) Believe in God and (2) Don't believe in God. The truth could be

one of the following two: (1) God Exists and (2) God doesn't exist.

 

Here are the four possible outcomes under the above circumstances;

I don't believe in God, but God exists implies that I am a net loser.

I don't believe in God and God doesn't exist means that I neither

loss or gain.

I believe in God and God doesn't exist ; in this case I have nothing

to lose

I believe in God and God exists and I have lot more to gain in this

situation.

 

Even the above simplistic analysis using materialistic yardstick to

measure gains and loses provides support to the conclusion that a

belief in god is a win-win proposal for leading our life. I like the

answer provided by St. Augustin (often quoted) which relates faith

and belief: "Faith is something that we don't see and its reward is

to see what we believe!" This quotation provides the subtle answer

to the question, "Does God Exist?"

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin, SUNDEEP GUPTA <sundeep_gupta1

wrote:

>

>

> Dear friends,

>

> I am new to this group. I am more of an agnostic, but want to

develope faith in God.

> I would like to know, the simplest way to develope firm belief

and love for God.

>

> Please share your valuable opinion.

>

> regards

> Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sundeep Ji,

 

advaitin, SUNDEEP GUPTA <sundeep_gupta1

wrote:

> Dear friends,

> I am new to this group. I am more of an agnostic, but want to

develope faith in God.I would like to know, the simplest way to

develope firm belief and love for God.

>

> Please share your valuable opinion.

> regards

> Sundeep

 

Most of us were in the same state at least in the past. Before you

start saying 'I want to believe in God', it helps tremendously to

first define what 'God' is?. I believe, if you follow Advaita's

modeling of the Universe, then it is impossible to NOT to believe in

GOD as Advaita defines God properly.

 

This current thread (and this group in general) helps us to

understand that definition.

 

Regards

 

Sudesh

[Guest guest]

advaitin, SUNDEEP GUPTA <sundeep_gupta1

wrote:

>

> List Moderator's Note: Welcome to the list Sri Sundeep and we look

forward to your active participation with thoughtful questions and

comments. Members may be able to provide with greater assistance if

they know your background better. Since you have the 'faith' to

believe that you can develop 'firm belief and love for god' you will

certainly able to achieve what you believe. Follow closely the

thread of discussions - "Self, the focus of the Bhagavad Gita,"

which will pave you the way attain the goal of developing firm

belief and love for SELF (Atman or God).

> ------------------------------

>

>

> Dear friends,

>

> I am new to this group. I am more of an agnostic, but want to

develope faith in God.

> I would like to know, the simplest way to develope firm belief

and love for God.

>

> Please share your valuable opinion.

>

> regards

> Sundeep

>

>

 

Sundeep-ji:

 

Here's a link that may be of help.

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/utility_of_god.html

 

Harih Om

Neelakantan

[Guest guest]

advaitin, SUNDEEP GUPTA <sundeep_gupta1

wrote:

> I would like to know, the simplest way to develope firm belief

and love for God.

 

Dear Sundeep

Pranams

 

The fact that you are agnostic is great - it means you are thinking

about whther or not to believe in God, which indicates you are not

taking the world at face value and that is a sign of viveka or

discrimination.

Perhaps, i think a better question for most agnostics is not "is

there a god?" but "who or what is god?" Well, what is god is what

vedanta is all about as well - so thats a good question to start

your search with.

 

Please see Prof VKs website on geocities which is a treasurehouse on

articles related to bhakti and other topics.

 

Let me try to answer your questions for you from my perspective.

 

To begin with just like you cannot find love, love finds you -

similairly you cannot find bhakti or love for the Lord - bhakti

finds you.

 

There is a beautiful verse in the Narada Bhakti Sutra

 

"mukhyatas tu mahat-kròpayaiva bhagavat-kròpa-lesat vaa"

 

Primarily, however, one develops bhakti by the mercy of great souls,

or by a small ounce of the Lord's mercy. And it goes on to say that

even the association of great souls is through the Lords mercy alone.

 

What will make me the recipient of the Lords mercy or Grace? My own

prior actions and deeds both in this janma as well as in prior.

 

What kind of deeds will help this happen?

Basic common sense ethical conduct. For the record the following are

listed

Abhyasa or practice of continuous thinking of God;

Viveka or discrimination;

Vimoka or freedom from everything else and longing for God;

Satyam or truthfulness;

Arjavam or straightforwardness;

Kriya or doing good to others;

Kalyana or wishing well-being to all;

Daya or compassion;

Ahimsa or non-injury;

Dana or charity; and

Anavasada or cheerfulness and optimism.

 

Now, with what thought process can I solidify my faith...

 

When you cognize the world what you see around you is pure

intelligence. In and through everything, there is perfection.

There is a perfect order to everything in this universe.

This is what makes it possible for mathematicians and physicists and

other scientists to function because nothing is by chance. Every

phenomenon is reproducibly precise and can me made use of to make

things like rockets which fly us to the moon, electron mocroscopes

and even atom bombs.

When everything you see is in order, you recognize that there has to

be an anuthorship to this order. There has to be a superintelligence

which is able to create this whole show - of galaxies, planets, and

on earth all the interdependent flora and fauna, animals, fishes etc

No bonds between inert elements like hydrogen and nitrogen could

have written up a genetic code that is faithfully reproduced for

billions of years. Your own human body manifests infinite examples

of sheer intelligence.

Once you recognize that this order has to have a creator, that

recogntion is faith.

Recognizing the infallibility of the order, how it never goes wrong,

how everything is right where it should be, how our eyes are so

beautifully constructed right in the mothers womb to see things, our

ears to hear, etc then leads to a recognition of our own selves as

an intrinsic part of that order. And that recognition leads to an

attitude of surrender - anything and everything that happens to me

now, in the past or future is always going to be in strict

accordance with that order.

This is what builds faith.

This is what builds surrender.

 

There are different attitudes you can use to relate to the Lord

depending on your temperament

These attitudes are of Shanti - the lord as an abode of peace,

Dasya - an attitude of servitude, Sakhya - Lord is my friend, and

finally Madhurya - Lord as a lover - in the sense of wanting to

belong him, wanting to be one with him - there is a Lata song along

these lines -

"Agar tum ho saagar mein pyaasi nadi hoon

agar tum ho sawan main jalti kali hoon

muraliya samajhke mujhe tum utha lo

bas ek baar hothon se apni lago na

koi sur to jaage

meri dhadkanon mein

ke mein apne sargam se roothi hui hoon" This form of bhakti is

heralded as of the highest form where the only longing one has in

life is to be one with the Lord.

 

Bhakti can be sakaama or devotion in order to obtain things for

yourself and nishkaama which is devotion to the Lord for the sake of

devotion alone.

 

As Gibran puts it beautifully

 

"For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but

rather, "I am in the heart of God."

And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it

finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself."

 

Writings or poems such as these are very inspiring and serve as

pointers to what bhakti or love for the Lord is all about.

Another favorite of mine is the genius kavi Bharat Vyas's song again

sung my Lata - I am translating for the benefit of nonHindi readers

 

Tum gagan ke Chandra ma ho

Mein dharaa ki dhul houn

Tum Mahasaagar ki seema

mein kinaare ki lahar

Tum Mahasangeet ke svar

mein adhoori saans hoon

 

Tum ho kaya mein houn saaya

Tum shhama mein bhul houn

 

You are the resplendent Moon in the sky, I am the dust on the earth

(as in awaiting your cool rays to save me from the scorching heat)

You are the limit of the Boundless ocean, i am a small wave on the

banks

You are the notes of the Divine Song, I am an incomplete breath

You are the substratum

I am the shadow (!)

You are Forgiveness

"I" am the error (!)

 

Hope i was able to express to you some idea of what love for God is,

what faith is, and what a truly great wonder it is to have that in

ones heart!

 

My best wishes to you

 

Hari Om

Shyam

[Guest guest]

Namaste dear all,

 

Shree Sundeep Ji wrote:-

>I am more of an agnostic, but want to develope faith

>in God. I would like to know, the simplest way to

>develope firm belief and love for God.

advaitin/message/32710

 

Respected members have given valubale insights

addressing this.

 

God has given numerous simple things so that God may

be seen:-

A beautiful flower, with its beauty, was created so as

to remind us of God's beauty through the flower.

The moon-lit smile of a little one was carved so that

a little bit of God's beauty is seen.

 

If these small things are so beautiful, a curiosity

will arise as to how immensely beautiful God would be

to behold !

 

The immensely beautiful God shows only a fraction of

it through such means every moment...

With our justified limitations, we fail to see the

beauty and we even refuse to see the beauty.

However, God is so kind....he never demands anything

and nevertheless makes all efforts all the time.

 

God makes efforts every moment to show us the beauty,

though we can only see a tiny fraction of it

with the limitations(that we make efforts to

overcome).

 

It is God who makes all the efforts and we only have

to allow God to succeed in his efforts thru Dharma.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, SUNDEEP GUPTA <sundeep_gupta1

wrote:

 

> Dear friends,

>

> I am new to this group. I am more of an agnostic, but want to

develope faith in God.

> I would like to know, the simplest way to develope firm belief

and love for God.

>

> Please share your valuable opinion.

>

> regards

> Sundeep

 

 

 

Dear Sudeep,

 

Here is an inspired talk by Swami Vivekananada which includes a

reply to an agnostic:

 

What you only grasp intellectually may be overthrown by a

new argument; but what you realise is yours for ever. Talking,

talking religion is but little good. Put God behind everything --

man, animal, food, work; make this a habit.

 

Ingersoll once said to me: "I believe in making the most

out of this world, in squeezing the orange dry, because this world

is all we are sure of." I replied: "I know a better way to squeeze

the orange of this world than you do, and I get more out of it. I

know I cannot die, so I am not in a hurry; I know there is no fear,

so I enjoy the squeezing. I have no duty, no bondage of wife and

children and property; I can love all men and women. Everyone is God

to me. Think of the joy of loving man as God! Squeeze your orange

this way and get ten thousandfold more out of it. Get every single

drop."

 

(unquote

 

The best and the bravest men of mankind like Shankaracharya, Buddha,

Swami Vivekananda who would have achieved the peak of worldly

success dedicated their life for the search of god and the beyond.

There is something higher worth achieving than this little world of

sense pleasures.

 

I appreciate your sincierity a lot. Some other place he has said

that:

 

 

What right has a man to say he has a soul if he does not feel it,

or that there is a God if he does not see Him? If there is a God we

must see Him, if there is a soul we must perceive it; otherwise it

is better not to believe. It is better to be an outspoken atheist

than a hypocrite.

 

Unquote

 

Swamiji Appreciates this a lost because it is first step in earnest

enquiry to the ultimate.

 

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka