Always side with the truth

[Kulapavana]

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: ...There are so many enemies in the name of religion. They are flourishing and such a great future will be lost. It is intolerable. And especially Prabhupada asked me to go to the West. I could not go, but Prabhupada has brought the West to me, so I have got some holy duty to discharge about that, I feel. It may not be broken into pieces. United we stand, divided we fall. But if hopeless, there's no alternative. We must always side with the truth, not with the falsehood. Hare Krsna.

 

Swami Maharaja took the responsibility of that great unfinished work and did wonderfully successful work and we feel proud for him. We feel such pride for his activity. How can we tolerate in our lifetime, within two or three years after his departure, that it will be broken into pieces? It is intolerable. Hare Krsna. But if for the sake of quality, for the sake of truth, we are to face such a situation, it can't be helped. Truth is everything, satyam param dhimahi.

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/oag_3.html

 

 

 

Telling people lies or misleading them in the name of "helping them" or for any other "noble" reason is at best only preyas, short term benefit at the expense of real long time gain. At worst, it is just plain cheating.

[Guest guest]

Sometimes, you have to mislead them, it's for their own good. Mayavada, for instance, is to mislead asuras, which is why Shiva blessed Manimantha to propogate it as Sanyasin Samkara. There are many such instances, but you get the picture. It's alright to mislead asuras.

[Kulapavana]

 

It's alright to mislead asuras.

 

only if you are Krsna...

 

otherwise you will be contaminated. it happened in our movement in the past.

[Guest guest]

 

Sometimes, you have to mislead them, it's for their own good. Mayavada, for instance, is to mislead asuras, which is why Shiva blessed Manimantha to propogate it as Sanyasin Samkara. There are many such instances, but you get the picture. It's alright to mislead asuras.

 

I hate the arrogance in these kinds of posts. Why not focus on the more spiritual qualities of Vaishnavism rather than offend others with this smug superiority?

 

Fact is, you DON'T know what is right or wrong, because you haven't become self-realized yet. And until you become self-realized yourself, you have no basis for making such stupid claims.

 

It makes it look like Vaishnavism is for anti-intellectuals, who like to be lead around by the nose. I don't believe it is, but such posts do not help.

[Guest guest]

 

I

 

It makes it look like Vaishnavism is for anti-intellectuals, who like to be lead around by the nose. .

 

Vaishnavism is for yogis and mystics.

It's not about scholarship at all.

One great acharya has referred to scholarship as the stool of a dog.

 

Vaishnavism is for religionists, yogis and mystics.

 

Scholarship is most often an impedient to Vaishnavism.

 

Many of India's greatest scholars are Shankarite impersonalists.

[Kulapavana]

 

Scholarship is most often an impedient to Vaishnavism.

 

 

Lord Caitanya went to great lengths in order to establish His movement in a scholarly as well as devotional way. How about the Six Goswamis, especially Jiva Goswami? why was Lord Caitanya established as an incarnation of the Lord in a scholarly way by them? Not to speak of the great acharyas like Ramanuja, Madhva, and in more recent times Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Srila Prabhupada? Do not be sentimental. Unless our movement has good scholarly basis it will be viewed as just another emotional religious sect.

[theist]

 

Sometimes, you have to mislead them, it's for their own good. Mayavada, for instance, is to mislead asuras, which is why Shiva blessed Manimantha to propogate it as Sanyasin Samkara. There are many such instances, but you get the picture. It's alright to mislead asuras.

Well this *rap never die? After reading Tackle-berry's post I started hearing Guru Kripa saying "Pick the bone and bring it home" over and over in my head. I just hope this curse doesn't last all day.

[Kulapavana]

 

After reading Tackle-berry's post I started hearing Guru Kripa saying "Pick the bone and bring it home" over and over in my head. I just hope this curse doesn't last all day.

 

that is precisely what happens when vaishyas interpret the shastra and are given the position of leadership. and this will continue in our movement as long as vaishyas are in power.

[Guest guest]

In Mahabharat, Lord Krishna teaches us to mislead the wicked. And that's happened several times. The 18-day war itself is a perfect example on how one must deal with asuras. One doesn't have to wait for Krishna to delude the asuras. It's for us devotees to do that.

[theist]

 

In Mahabharat, Lord Krishna teaches us to mislead the wicked. And that's happened several times. The 18-day war itself is a perfect example on how one must deal with asuras. One doesn't have to wait for Krishna to delude the asuras. It's for us devotees to do that.

 

You talk like you are in some empowered mission. Buddha returned maybe? Sankaracarya perhaps? I don't think so. Actually you are deluded.

 

Vaisnavas cannot tolerate the suffering of others. Therefore they act in ways that will free the illusioned, US,from our suffering and help us reestablish our blissful relationship with the Lord.

 

There is no need to delude the deluded. That is the most perverted conception of a preaching mission that I have ever heard. The cure for ignorance is knowledge. The highest ignorance is in regards to not knowing oneself and the Superself. This is real holistic medicine. The real root to ALL disease is false identification with the material body.

 

An ordinary physican will try to dispense some effective medicine to cure a disease of the body. In times of pandemic he will work tirelessly trying to save as many as his capacity allows.

 

This is also the way of the Vaisnava. The disease he is trying to eradicate is the individuals false identification with matter and ignorance of the self. The cure for the disease of ignorance is knowledge. So he dispenses knowledge as far and as deep as his capacity allows. The Vaisnava is the supreme physician.

 

I am ot sure what a tackle-berrie is but you are talking like a dingle-berrie.

 

Please reconsider your stance.

[Guest guest]

 

In Mahabharat, Lord Krishna teaches us to mislead the wicked. And that's happened several times. The 18-day war itself is a perfect example on how one must deal with asuras. One doesn't have to wait for Krishna to delude the asuras. It's for us devotees to do that.

 

Not really. When Krsna standing next to you orders you to tell a lie (as in: Asvatthama - /the elephant/ - is dead) you can do it. Such instances are extremely rare. It is completely dishonest to make a habit out of extremely rare exceptions to the rule.

[Guest guest]

I think that is a nice theoretical construct that Sridhar M proposes, "always side with the truth", and I've enjoyed his books as he can turn a phrase nicely. However, did he practice what he preach?

 

For example, Jayatirtha Maharaja who somehow or other got into the position of being one of the Eleven Zonal Acharyas "as good as God" and "as good as Jesus". That guy was on the Vyasasana accepting worship from people while high on acid. He was videotaped/ photo taken of him accepting sexual favors from his wife while one of the Eleven Zonal Acharyas and a sannyasi.

 

His wife was still in love with him and he with her. He was only a young boy i.e. a young clueless Westerner thrust into the position of same platform as Adi Sankaracharya. Neuroscience has shown us that we are teenagers until age 26 as our cognitive function is still developing. The last part of the brain to develop is the power of reasoning and decision-making.

 

So Jayatirtha and his wife went to see Sridhar Maharaja> They told him that he didn't want to be a sannyasi or a guru anymore. That he didn't have the qualifications to be one. And what did Sridhar M tell them? He told the wife to sacrifice her husband like how Visnupriya sacrificed Lord Chaitanya. Do it for the institution.

 

So where was "always side with the truth" in that circumstance? A few months later the guy had his head chopped off by an irate disciple. So the good that came from Sridhar Maharaja's NOT "always siding with the truth"

was what exactly?

 

And could you please explain it to Jayatirtha M? And to his wife? And to his elderly parents? And to his nephews and nieces? And to his cousins?

 

It is one thing to sentimentalize someone, but what happens when that person's advice directly leads to someone getting decapitated? The truth was Jayatirtha himself wanted to step down. Much like nowadays young Aranya Maharaja took sannyasa too early and was told to do it by his guru.

 

Then he decides he cannot handle. So he stepped down from sannyasa and got married. Well what would Sridhar Maharaja say? "Always side with the truth"? Would he tell Aranya Maharaja to just take a cold shower and put his saffron vesha back on? "Just Do It"? Just make the sacrifice like Lord Chaitanya did?

 

You, a finite jeev should do what an Incarnation of God can do? Where is "always siding with the truth" in telling a guy who has fallen down with his wife on numerous occasions on the Bhaktivedanta Manor property and documented on film to remain "as good as God" and "as good as Jesus"?

Was Sridhar Maharaja referring to The DaVinci Code?

 

It's one thing to respect what a person has written, but how congruent was that person's advice with reality? How much did he actions match what he said? And Sridhar Maharaja was not Joe Blow from Kokomo, he was the person devotees were to consult if there was any problem with the philosophy according to Prabhupada?

 

It is just a cultural thing? I really want to knnow. Is it an example of guru's relative truth? Where guru does not know everything due to cultural obscurations? Is it part of Indian society that a person just continue to "go through the motions" externally just for the sake of "keeping up appearances"?

 

Versus in the West such a person would be advised to step down and then they can write a best-selling autobiography and sell the rights for TV to make a "movie of the week" and a film and go on the lecture circuit? And then go on Jerry Springer: "Men WHo Have Slept With Their Wives On Temple Property As Celibate Gurus as Good as God" and the women who love them?

[Guest guest]

The above post sounds like sensationalism. Very disrespectful to Srila Sridhara Maharaja as well. If this person has actually read SSM's books, he did so only to find fault. "Turn a phrase" is a dead giveaway. A few facts about Jayatirtha are stated, but the rest is just a narrow, one-sided version.

[Guest guest]

From "Our Affectionate Guardians":

 

 

Jayatirtha Maharaja, a GBC guru, had fallen from the principles of Krsna consciousness, and had been forced by the GBC to take sannyasa against his will. We were present in Los Angeles during the GBC's meeting there when they voted that Jayatirtha Prabhu must take sannyasa -- very much against his will. Later he was found to have again deviated and fallen. Srila Sridhara Maharaja had advised that Jayatirtha should be dealt with delicately, as he had had many problems and continued to have problems.

 

"They told that Jayatirtha wanted sannyasa. Ultimately, we have not forced. Reluctantly we gave sannyasa. Still I told him that I would like to hear from him [Jayatirtha] first before making any remark. Then Bhakti Caru Swami brought Jayatirtha Maharaja here from Puri, leaving his wife and son in Calcutta, but I also wanted his wife and son to be here. Then they were also brought here and I consulted with them all."

 

I tried to post a link, but kept getting an error that I needed 15 posts. I feel

sure I've made more than that. Oh well... to read the full story, one can go to

the Gosai website and read chapter 6 of Our Affectionate Guardians.

[Sita Sundari]

I should like to respond to some of the information in the above posts on truth. It is quite some time since this discussion has gone cold, any way it is not good for misinformation to be left with out clarification and on this account I am feeling obliged to write.

The relationship between Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Jayatirtha Maharaja is a very deep bond and there are transcripts of their conversations which show something of this deep mutual respect. Jayatirtha was of a different generation to Sridhara Maharaja and so was in a different position in his understanding of how to move Mahaprabhu's mission forward into the modern world. The Guest who posted on the 9-9-2006 described Jayatirtha as young and clueless, while I appreciate his sentiment in defending Jayatirthas position after he had been forced to take sannyas while still in iskcon, though he was young and born in the west he was not clueless, his over view of what was going on was very clear. I also do not agree that he wanted to renounce his responsibility as a guru, as his disciple I know what a first class guru he was and although his position in iskcon was made very difficult if not impossible his faith in his Guru Maharaja was firmly fixed. He advised some of his disciples to take shelter at Srila Sridhara Maharaja's feet if his unconventional methods were taking them out of their comfort zones. One prominent disciple disclosed to me that Jayatirtha Maharaja requested him to stay in iskcon as he was involved in translation works and wanted him to continue with that. I do not know of him ever turning away any one disciple or otherwise who wished to engage in devotional service under his guidance. His passing away was six years after he left iskcon. In those years he worked in a free and creative spirit, always holding Hari Nama in the centre. He had a mystical devotion to the holy name and worked endlessly to facilitate Lord Gouranga's progressive mission.