Humility & Not learning the Lessons of Lif

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

 

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

 

My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a wonderful

Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

 

Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign Leo

also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the dharma

trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to happiness and

knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and as

significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the ultimate

Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is aksharam,

while the frail ego is bruised at every little affront...perceived

or real!

 

The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because Sun is

a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to take/implement hard

decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are supposed to

be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu is said

to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that this

point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and king of

planets.

 

>From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth and

differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps ego

too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he is

more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for ego.

Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends to

obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people talk

of punctured egos!!

 

Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

opportunity to learn from you:--))

 

Waiting for your corrections,

 

Regards,

Lakshmi

 

As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Divine Lakshmi,

>

> It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

>

> I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about Sun the

planet

> and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

Krura,

> certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi". If

you mark

> a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able to take

hard

> decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much pleased with

those

> that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has Bhaats

in

> their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

>

> Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason we are

born

> again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates illusion

to

> others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

connected

> with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

>

> I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry if I

gave

> that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that he is a

> separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling the

the

> Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

Universe as

> do all the Puranas.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> >

> > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is something

that

> > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is said

to

> > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He represents

pure

> > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> >

> > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents ego.

Rahu

> > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of oneself,

> > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> >

> > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> >

> > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

> > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > >

> > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of thoughts

> > as "me". It

> > > manifests in three ways:

> > >

> > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

wherein

> > the ego

> > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its identification

> > with one's

> > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > is the separative self.

> > >

> > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego when one

> > feels

> > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant manner.

> > >

> > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

wherein

> > one feels

> > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to serve him.

> > Extreme

> > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > >

> > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the separative

> > form of ego

> > > (of the first

> > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the 2 and 3

> > forms

> > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > >

> > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents the ego.

> > Surya

> > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its light;

> > like

> > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

effulgent

> > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

(Consciousness,

> > seemingly

> > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate between

the

> > Jivatma

> > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to represent

the

> > Ego.

> > >

> > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > The most important characteristic of not learning from one's

> > mistake is

> > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna and

> > lagnesh. This

> > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma trikonas.

The

> > 2nd factor

> > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

reason).

> > Mercury

> > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If Tamas

grahas

> > are

> > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > >

> > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and lords

of

> > Dharma

> > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self help and

> > analysis

> > > of self and past karmas.

> > >

> > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on and

on.

> > However, I

> > > shall end it here.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > >

> > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > >

> > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery & Dharma

> > Trikona

> > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sunil John

> > > >

> > > >

> > <%40> <%

> > 40>,

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > >

> > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to ego.

Sun

> > > > represents

> > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will be one

> > such

> > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like Aries and

you

> > get the

> > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > >

> > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the combination

for

> > not

> > > > being

> > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

native's

> > chart?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by example &

> > telling the

> > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think here

again

> > grammar

> > > > is

> > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > best

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > >

> > <%40> <%

> > 40>

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can tell the

> > virtues of

> > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the lesson

> > oneself.

> > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has to be

> > learnt. And

> > > > it is

> > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

fashioned

> > way of

> > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But still if

> > elders do

> > > > not

> > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is self

> > evolved.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > <%40><%

> > 40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I must

> > decline. At

> > > > my age,

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can and be

> > away from

> > > > day to

> > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji the

> > Moderator of

> > > > this

> > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that would

serve,

> > since

> > > > none of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

previleges

> > of a

> > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

required

> > in this

> > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too technical

to

> > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you wish to

> > accomplish

> > > > and I

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40><%

> > 40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list once in 4

> > months but

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This list

> > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should become a

> > Moderator.

> > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

Chandrashekhar

> > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should propose

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------

----

> > ---

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

268.11.2/422 -

> > Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ----------------------

---

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.2/422 -

> > Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

 

I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little ones. I am

sure so did you and your family.

 

You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the sage and

Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the nature of

Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura, certainly not

some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya is to

fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as Brahmin

and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser. Now the reason

for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of Sanskrit

language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in perhaps that

respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we know that

Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice the same

confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a beginner is

confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

 

You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things that I

commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of Vishnu but

that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise there would

not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were written. I would

not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that many of Kings

of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard decision that hurt

even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing justice,

though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished were not

guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to appear to

be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak depends on how

the event is viewed.

 

Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun does

represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we also know

him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level. Therefore

the fact that planets in different context have different behavioral

traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma karaka

(karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari script of BPHS you

will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara karakas,

though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

 

The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my mind, is

explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes under

control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs when an

Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully described

by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that it will

remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is born in a body it

gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this state is

called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part of the

formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma, in living

being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on its

placement and strength.

 

You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar Chintamani and

others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya. Do not forget

that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

 

I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well versed in

scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am trying to

tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a pleasure

to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of scriptures and

jyotish.

 

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

 

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a wonderful

> Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

>

> Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

> planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign Leo

> also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the dharma

> trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to happiness and

> knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and as

> significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the ultimate

> Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is aksharam,

> while the frail ego is bruised at every little affront...perceived

> or real!

>

> The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because Sun is

> a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to take/implement hard

> decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

> necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are supposed to

> be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu is said

> to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that this

> point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

> again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and king of

> planets.

>

> >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth and

> differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps ego

> too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he is

> more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for ego.

> Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends to

> obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people talk

> of punctured egos!!

>

> Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> opportunity to learn from you:--))

>

> Waiting for your corrections,

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

>

>

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> >

> > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> >

> > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about Sun the

> planet

> > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

> Krura,

> > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi". If

> you mark

> > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able to take

> hard

> > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much pleased with

> those

> > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has Bhaats

> in

> > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> >

> > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason we are

> born

> > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates illusion

> to

> > others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

> connected

> > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> >

> > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry if I

> gave

> > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that he is a

> > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling the

> the

> > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> Universe as

> > do all the Puranas.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > >

> > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is something

> that

> > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is said

> to

> > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He represents

> pure

> > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > >

> > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents ego.

> Rahu

> > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of oneself,

> > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > >

> > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

> > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > >

> > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of thoughts

> > > as "me". It

> > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > >

> > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

> wherein

> > > the ego

> > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its identification

> > > with one's

> > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > > is the separative self.

> > > >

> > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego when one

> > > feels

> > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant manner.

> > > >

> > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

> wherein

> > > one feels

> > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to serve him.

> > > Extreme

> > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > >

> > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the separative

> > > form of ego

> > > > (of the first

> > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the 2 and 3

> > > forms

> > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > >

> > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents the ego.

> > > Surya

> > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its light;

> > > like

> > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> effulgent

> > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> (Consciousness,

> > > seemingly

> > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate between

> the

> > > Jivatma

> > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to represent

> the

> > > Ego.

> > > >

> > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from one's

> > > mistake is

> > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna and

> > > lagnesh. This

> > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma trikonas.

> The

> > > 2nd factor

> > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

> reason).

> > > Mercury

> > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If Tamas

> grahas

> > > are

> > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > >

> > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and lords

> of

> > > Dharma

> > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self help and

> > > analysis

> > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > >

> > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on and

> on.

> > > However, I

> > > > shall end it here.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > Bharat

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > >

> > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > >

> > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery & Dharma

> > > Trikona

> > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Sunil John

> > > > >

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40> <%

> > > 40>,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to ego.

> Sun

> > > > > represents

> > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will be one

> > > such

> > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like Aries and

> you

> > > get the

> > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the combination

> for

> > > not

> > > > > being

> > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

> native's

> > > chart?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by example &

> > > telling the

> > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think here

> again

> > > grammar

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40> <%

> > > 40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can tell the

> > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the lesson

> > > oneself.

> > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has to be

> > > learnt. And

> > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

> fashioned

> > > way of

> > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But still if

> > > elders do

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is self

> > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40><%

> > > 40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I must

> > > decline. At

> > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can and be

> > > away from

> > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji the

> > > Moderator of

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that would

> serve,

> > > since

> > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

> previleges

> > > of a

> > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

> required

> > > in this

> > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too technical

> to

> > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you wish to

> > > accomplish

> > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40><%

> > > 40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list once in 4

> > > months but

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This list

> > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should become a

> > > Moderator.

> > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> 268.11.2/422 -

> > > Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ----------------------

> ---

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.2/422 -

> > > Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

 

Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

 

I do not think sage Parashara was talking about strength when he

called Surya and Chandra as Satwik. He was discussing the gunas of

all the planets in shloka 22, whereas he talked about satwa of Kuja

while commenting on planetary governances in shlokas 12-13 of BPHS.

The contexts are totally different and the satwa of kuja is

definitely not the satwa of Sun, Moon and Jupiter.

 

Parashara described Sun as "sarvaatma cha divaanathaH" in shloka 12

of BPHS, dealing with planetary governances, and not in relation to

Atmakaraka.

 

Even as the sthira Atma Karaka, Sun represents the most evolved

state of consciousness. Can such a state accommodate Ego? I am

sorry, but I can not find a reference in BPHS about Sun representing

Ego. Could you please point it out to me?

 

There's no dispute about Sun being "krura"...as a king needs to be

occasionally in order to discharge his duty. Even Sagittarius is

described as "a battleground" and a kshatriya sign, despite being

owned by a brahmin. Light is always considered cruel by Darkness.

Lord Krishna was considered cruel because He instigated the

Kurukshetra war. Lord Nrisimha is considered cruel because of the

way in which He killed Hiranya kashyapa. The cruelty was created &

deserved by the wishes and acts of the opponents. I am sure Rahu

thought Sun as very cruel too when he was caught masquerading.

 

Being a King means one vested with absolute authority, power,

responsibility for maintenance of order and sustenance. I am sure

when Parashara used to term "king" he used it to convey the above

and his model was more Lord Vishnu ("vaishnavomsaH parassooryaH")

than some kings who were synonyms for ego. I am sure that's why he

chose Sun as representative of Sri Rama, the most humble of the

dasavataras. Sri Rama was unflinching in execution of his duty,

which perhaps bordered on cruelty on certain occasions, but He's

revered as Purushottama, and I don't think "ego" was one of His

problems:--)) Infact, most of the spiritual giants like Rama,

Krishna, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Shankaracharya, Aurobindo,

Vivekananda (to quote only a few)etc have Sun in great strength in

their charts!!

 

Sun represents a state of being/knowledge, which in itself does not

imply ahamkaara. It's "thinking" about that state of being and

acting accordingly that leads to ahamkara and "thought" is always

the forte of vayu tattwa!!

 

Regards,

Lakshmi

 

 

 

 

but does the word "krura" encompass the attribute of ego?

 

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Divine Lakshmi,

>

> I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little ones.

I am

> sure so did you and your family.

>

> You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the sage

and

> Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the

nature of

> Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura,

certainly not

> some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya is

to

> fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as

Brahmin

> and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser. Now the

reason

> for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of Sanskrit

> language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in perhaps

that

> respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we

know that

> Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice the

same

> confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a beginner

is

> confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

>

> You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things that I

> commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of Vishnu

but

> that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise there

would

> not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were written. I

would

> not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that many of

Kings

> of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard decision that

hurt

> even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing

justice,

> though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished

were not

> guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to

appear to

> be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak depends

on how

> the event is viewed.

>

> Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun does

> represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we also

know

> him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level.

Therefore

> the fact that planets in different context have different

behavioral

> traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma

karaka

> (karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari script of

BPHS you

> will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara

karakas,

> though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

>

> The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my mind,

is

> explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes under

> control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs when

an

> Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully

described

> by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that it

will

> remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is born in a

body it

> gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this state

is

> called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part of the

> formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma, in

living

> being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on its

> placement and strength.

>

> You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar

Chintamani and

> others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya. Do not

forget

> that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

>

> I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well versed

in

> scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am trying

to

> tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a

pleasure

> to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of scriptures

and

> jyotish.

>

> Take care,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> >

> > My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a wonderful

> > Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

> >

> > Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

> > planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign Leo

> > also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the

dharma

> > trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> > Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> > guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to happiness

and

> > knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and as

> > significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the ultimate

> > Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is aksharam,

> > while the frail ego is bruised at every little

affront...perceived

> > or real!

> >

> > The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because Sun

is

> > a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to take/implement

hard

> > decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

> > necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are supposed

to

> > be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu is

said

> > to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> > Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> > celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that this

> > point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

> > again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and king

of

> > planets.

> >

> > >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth and

> > differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps ego

> > too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he is

> > more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for ego.

> > Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends to

> > obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people

talk

> > of punctured egos!!

> >

> > Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> > opportunity to learn from you:--))

> >

> > Waiting for your corrections,

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

> >

> >

> >

> > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > >

> > > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> > >

> > > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about Sun

the

> > planet

> > > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

> > Krura,

> > > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi". If

> > you mark

> > > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able to

take

> > hard

> > > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much pleased

with

> > those

> > > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has

Bhaats

> > in

> > > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> > >

> > > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason we

are

> > born

> > > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates

illusion

> > to

> > > others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

> > connected

> > > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> > >

> > > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry if I

> > gave

> > > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that he

is a

> > > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling the

> > the

> > > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> > Universe as

> > > do all the Puranas.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > >

> > > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > > >

> > > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is

something

> > that

> > > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is

said

> > to

> > > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He

represents

> > pure

> > > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > > >

> > > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents ego.

> > Rahu

> > > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of

oneself,

> > > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > > >

> > > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Lakshmi

> > > >

> > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu

Astrology"

> > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > > >

> > > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of

thoughts

> > > > as "me". It

> > > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

> > wherein

> > > > the ego

> > > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its

identification

> > > > with one's

> > > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > > > is the separative self.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego when

one

> > > > feels

> > > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant

manner.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

> > wherein

> > > > one feels

> > > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to serve

him.

> > > > Extreme

> > > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > > >

> > > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the

separative

> > > > form of ego

> > > > > (of the first

> > > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the 2

and 3

> > > > forms

> > > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > > >

> > > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents the

ego.

> > > > Surya

> > > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its

light;

> > > > like

> > > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> > effulgent

> > > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> > (Consciousness,

> > > > seemingly

> > > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate

between

> > the

> > > > Jivatma

> > > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to

represent

> > the

> > > > Ego.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from

one's

> > > > mistake is

> > > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna and

> > > > lagnesh. This

> > > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma

trikonas.

> > The

> > > > 2nd factor

> > > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

> > reason).

> > > > Mercury

> > > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If Tamas

> > grahas

> > > > are

> > > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > > >

> > > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and

lords

> > of

> > > > Dharma

> > > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self help

and

> > > > analysis

> > > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on

and

> > on.

> > > > However, I

> > > > > shall end it here.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > Bharat

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > > >

> > > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery &

Dharma

> > > > Trikona

> > > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40> <%

> > > > 40>,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to

ego.

> > Sun

> > > > > > represents

> > > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will

be one

> > > > such

> > > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like Aries

and

> > you

> > > > get the

> > > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the

combination

> > for

> > > > not

> > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

> > native's

> > > > chart?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by

example &

> > > > telling the

> > > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think

here

> > again

> > > > grammar

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40> <%

> > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can tell

the

> > > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the

lesson

> > > > oneself.

> > > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has to

be

> > > > learnt. And

> > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

> > fashioned

> > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But still

if

> > > > elders do

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is

self

> > > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40><%

> > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I

must

> > > > decline. At

> > > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can

and be

> > > > away from

> > > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji

the

> > > > Moderator of

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that would

> > serve,

> > > > since

> > > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

> > previleges

> > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

> > required

> > > > in this

> > > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by

owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too

technical

> > to

> > > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do

this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you

wish to

> > > > accomplish

> > > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > <%40>

> > > > <%40><%

> > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list once

in 4

> > > > months but

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This list

> > > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should become

a

> > > > Moderator.

> > > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

been

> > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --------------

----

> > ----

> > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------

----

> > ---

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

268.11.2/422 -

> > > > Release

> > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------

-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 -

Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > 8/24/2006

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Divine Lakshmi,

 

I understand what you mean by interpretation of Satvik as being Pious

with reference to Parashara. You admit that King has to be cruel and

take all means o protect his kingdom. As I said let us not bring the

deities into the discussion as their actions can be interpreted in many

ways. If you remember the story of Bhrigu rishi and the Gods, including,

Vishnu you will find him punishing the gods for their ego. One finds

similar story about Durvasa and Indra, in Padma Purana, where Indra

exhibited the highest form of ego and he is King of Gods.

But let us keep it a separate issue.

 

But think about it why would then Chandra be described as Kaami and

Surya as Paapa? This does not fit in with the description of Satvik as

in pious but does with satva as strength. But if we look at their

strength then the principle that the strength of Grahas is derived from

strength of Moon does indicate that the satva attributed to Chandra

could relate to its strength as opposed to pious behavior.Similarly

strength of Sun being related to the self confidence of a person its

strength is also relevant for a chart and not its being Pious. Again we

talk of pure Atma till it is born but once born it comes under control

of Mana and no longer remains unsullied. By the way in Sanskrit Atma has

many meanings besides soul, as I am sure you are aware. On birth the

atma gets the feeling o f Ahamkar and I am sure you also know that one

of the meaning of Ahamkar is egoism besides ignorance etc. So if Surya

is the sarvatmaa then he is the one who gives ego. Or at least that is

how I would look at the interpretation of the words.

 

I would not give humility as opposed to a King. It is not for nothing he

sits on a throne, wears a crown and expects everyone to salute him and

also worship him as an amsha of Vishnu. I would say this is the height

of ego for a human being, to think himself to be on par with god.

 

But leaving the interpretation of what Parashara wanted to say and how

scriptures are to be interpreted, we find that Bhava Manjari does

attribute Abhimana (pride/ego) to Surya and so does Bhuvan Deepak.

 

I trust this would help clarify the matter. It may also make it clear as

to why I consider Surya an indicator of ego.

 

Take care,

Chandrashekhar.

 

b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

>

> I do not think sage Parashara was talking about strength when he

> called Surya and Chandra as Satwik. He was discussing the gunas of

> all the planets in shloka 22, whereas he talked about satwa of Kuja

> while commenting on planetary governances in shlokas 12-13 of BPHS.

> The contexts are totally different and the satwa of kuja is

> definitely not the satwa of Sun, Moon and Jupiter.

>

> Parashara described Sun as "sarvaatma cha divaanathaH" in shloka 12

> of BPHS, dealing with planetary governances, and not in relation to

> Atmakaraka.

>

> Even as the sthira Atma Karaka, Sun represents the most evolved

> state of consciousness. Can such a state accommodate Ego? I am

> sorry, but I can not find a reference in BPHS about Sun representing

> Ego. Could you please point it out to me?

>

> There's no dispute about Sun being "krura"...as a king needs to be

> occasionally in order to discharge his duty. Even Sagittarius is

> described as "a battleground" and a kshatriya sign, despite being

> owned by a brahmin. Light is always considered cruel by Darkness.

> Lord Krishna was considered cruel because He instigated the

> Kurukshetra war. Lord Nrisimha is considered cruel because of the

> way in which He killed Hiranya kashyapa. The cruelty was created &

> deserved by the wishes and acts of the opponents. I am sure Rahu

> thought Sun as very cruel too when he was caught masquerading.

>

> Being a King means one vested with absolute authority, power,

> responsibility for maintenance of order and sustenance. I am sure

> when Parashara used to term "king" he used it to convey the above

> and his model was more Lord Vishnu ("vaishnavomsaH parassooryaH")

> than some kings who were synonyms for ego. I am sure that's why he

> chose Sun as representative of Sri Rama, the most humble of the

> dasavataras. Sri Rama was unflinching in execution of his duty,

> which perhaps bordered on cruelty on certain occasions, but He's

> revered as Purushottama, and I don't think "ego" was one of His

> problems:--)) Infact, most of the spiritual giants like Rama,

> Krishna, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Shankaracharya, Aurobindo,

> Vivekananda (to quote only a few)etc have Sun in great strength in

> their charts!!

>

> Sun represents a state of being/knowledge, which in itself does not

> imply ahamkaara. It's "thinking" about that state of being and

> acting accordingly that leads to ahamkara and "thought" is always

> the forte of vayu tattwa!!

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> but does the word "krura" encompass the attribute of ego?

>

>

> <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> >

> > I did have have a wonderful Ganesh Chaturthi with the little ones.

> I am

> > sure so did you and your family.

> >

> > You are right about Simha being described as Satvik by the sage

> and

> > Surya as also being Satvik. But one does have to look at the

> nature of

> > Surya in depth and we find him being Kshatriya and Krura,

> certainly not

> > some one who would be non combatant as the dharma of Kshatriya is

> to

> > fight for his honor and land, against Guru who is described as

> Brahmin

> > and Shubha. Again Surya is King whereas Guru is adviser. Now the

> reason

> > for the apparent contradiction is perhaps the brevity of Sanskrit

> > language. satva is also used to mean strength and it is in perhaps

> that

> > respect that Surya and Chandra are called Satvik. Otherwise we

> know that

> > Surya and weak Chandra are called Papa grahas. You will notice the

> same

> > confusion arising when Mars is said to rule Satva, and a beginner

> is

> > confused when Mars is also categorized as a malefic.

> >

> > You have already mentioned and noticed many of the things that I

> > commented on. I agree that King is supposed to be amsha of Vishnu

> but

> > that is the theoretical principle is that not so? Otherwise there

> would

> > not have been Mahabharata following which Puranas were written. I

> would

> > not like to quote scriptures here but you are aware that many of

> Kings

> > of even Treta and Dwapar yuga, took some very hard decision that

> hurt

> > even their own dear ones so that they are seen to be doing

> justice,

> > though they privately knew that was not the case (the punished

> were not

> > guilty). Whether we call that act and act of ego or desire to

> appear to

> > be upholder of Dharma at the cost of some one who is weak depends

> on how

> > the event is viewed.

> >

> > Atma is no doubt without blemish as you rightly said and Sun does

> > represent Atma at higher levels as does Moon the mind. But we also

> know

> > him as Krura and Kshatriya and Moon as lusty at another level.

> Therefore

> > the fact that planets in different context have different

> behavioral

> > traits can be deduced by us. As you said Sun is called Atma

> karaka

> > (karaka for soul), however if you read the Devanagari script of

> BPHS you

> > will find reference to Atmkaraka (karaka for self), in chara

> karakas,

> > though this is always projected as karaka for soul.

> >

> > The reason for this multilevel operation of planets, to my mind,

> is

> > explained by the way Atma, which is pure and detached, comes under

> > control of Mind and is dragged by it everywhere. This occurs when

> an

> > Atma assumes the body of a living being. This is beautifully

> described

> > by Puranas. They say that prior to birth the Atma decides that it

> will

> > remain pure and will attain moksha. No sooner is it is born in a

> body it

> > gets the feeling of being different from the Lord and this state

> is

> > called Ahamkar (the feeling of being self as against part of the

> > formless and infinite one). Thus Sun though representing Atma, in

> living

> > being it also is capable of representing Ahamkar, depending on its

> > placement and strength.

> >

> > You will observe many astrological texts, like Chamatkar

> Chintamani and

> > others, commenting on ego being part of make up of Surya. Do not

> forget

> > that one of Surya's name is Tapana.

> >

> > I am sure this much pointer is enough for you. You are well versed

> in

> > scriptures and Jyotisha and I am certain you know what I am trying

> to

> > tell. And do not worry about the longish mail. It is always a

> pleasure

> > to read your thoughts which are based on deep study of scriptures

> and

> > jyotish.

> >

> > Take care,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekhar ji,

> > >

> > > My apologies for the delayed reply, Sir. Hope you had a wonderful

> > > Ganesh Chaturthi along with your grand children.

> > >

> > > Coming to the topic on hand, I was also referring to Sun as a

> > > planet. Parashara muni described Sun as Saatwik and his sign Leo

> > > also as satwik...similar to Jupiter & Sagittarius. Among the

> dharma

> > > trikona only Aries is rajasik. Gunatraya vibhaga yoga of

> > > Bhagavadgita gives the following characteristics of sattwa

> > > guna...nirmalam, prakasam, anaamayam -and attached to happiness

> and

> > > knowledge. All these qualities are attributes of the Soul, and as

> > > significator of the Soul (vide Parashara), isn't Sun the ultimate

> > > Karma saakshi? And, are Soul and Ego the same? Aatma is aksharam,

> > > while the frail ego is bruised at every little

> affront...perceived

> > > or real!

> > >

> > > The only reason for calling Sun as krura, I feel, is because Sun

> is

> > > a kshatriya and, as pointed out by you, needs to take/implement

> hard

> > > decisions without bias. I also feel that being a king does not

> > > necessitate being egoistic. Essentially, all kings are supposed

> to

> > > be modelled on Vishnu and carry His vibhuti, and Lord Vishnu is

> said

> > > to be the most saattwik and least egoistic. Perhaps

> > > Parashara's "King" is to be interpreted keeping in view this

> > > celestial background:-)) Anyway, i am sure you noticed that this

> > > point is mentioned in Vishnu Purana, authored by Sage Parashara

> > > again, and he was talking about Sun only as the planet and king

> of

> > > planets.

> > >

> > > >From what I understand, it's Vayu tattwa that breeds rebirth and

> > > differentiation (Saturn and Rahu-karma and kaama) and perhaps ego

> > > too. Rahu being strong in all the natural upachaya houses, he is

> > > more of a significator things false and expansive, hence for ego.

> > > Also as the enemy of the Soul, Rahu signifies Ego which tends to

> > > obscure the true brilliance of Atma. Perhaps that's why people

> talk

> > > of punctured egos!!

> > >

> > > Sorry for the longish mail, Sir, but i can never pass up an

> > > opportunity to learn from you:--))

> > >

> > > Waiting for your corrections,

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > As significator of the Soul, isn't Sun the karma saakshi?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Divine Lakshmi,

> > > >

> > > > It is so nice to hear from you after a long time.

> > > >

> > > > I understand what you mean. But here we are talking about Sun

> the

> > > planet

> > > > and not Sun the God. Astrologically he is called the King and

> > > Krura,

> > > > certainly not something to do with detached "Karma Saakshi". If

> > > you mark

> > > > a King two of his prominent characteristics are being able to

> take

> > > hard

> > > > decisions and punish the guilty as well as being much pleased

> with

> > > those

> > > > that praise him and pamper his ego. That is why Kings has

> Bhaats

> > > in

> > > > their employ, to sign their praise day in and day out.

> > > >

> > > > Rahu represents desire as opposed to ego. He is the reason we

> are

> > > born

> > > > again on this earth, allegorically speaking. Rahu creates

> illusion

> > > to

> > > > others not self. That is why you will find that when rahu is

> > > connected

> > > > with disease the correct diagnosis is rarely possible.

> > > >

> > > > I did not say that "Aham Brahmasmi" is Ahamkar. I am sorry if I

> > > gave

> > > > that impression. I meant that on being born one feels that he

> is a

> > > > separate entity, separate from the Brahman and that feeling the

> > > the

> > > > Ahamkar. Parashara talks at length on that, in creation of

> > > Universe as

> > > > do all the Puranas.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste. How are you, Sir?

> > > > >

> > > > > My feeling is that Sun does not represent Ego. Ego is

> something

> > > that

> > > > > makes one opinionated/biased and Sun as "Karma Saakshi" is

> said

> > > to

> > > > > be the most impartial & detached observer of all. He

> represents

> > > pure

> > > > > awareness, which is not judgemental.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the other opposite end, we have Rahu, which repreents ego.

> > > Rahu

> > > > > can give a warped, bloated and often false impression of

> oneself,

> > > > > unless he is strong or with strong planets.

> > > > >

> > > > > The realisation "Aham brahmaasmi" is certainly

> > > > > not "ahamkaara"....infact far from it!

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > >

> > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40>, "Bharat Hindu

> Astrology"

> > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Chandrashekhar and Sri Kishore

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ego is the thought of "mine". It calls a collection of

> thoughts

> > > > > as "me". It

> > > > > > manifests in three ways:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. "I am an individual": This is the simplest form of ego

> > > wherein

> > > > > the ego

> > > > > > thought of "me" defines oneself by virtue of its

> identification

> > > > > with one's

> > > > > > body and a collection of thoughts called "the mind". This

> > > > > > is the separative self.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. "I am supreme": This is an exaggerated form of ego when

> one

> > > > > feels

> > > > > > superior to others and expresses onself in an arrogant

> manner.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. "Only I exist": This is the most dangerous form of ego

> > > wherein

> > > > > one feels

> > > > > > like All powerful and thinks all others are meant to serve

> him.

> > > > > Extreme

> > > > > > selfishness and arrogance are expressed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When a person is humble, he/she is still having the

> separative

> > > > > form of ego

> > > > > > (of the first

> > > > > > variety). Humility though a virtue (since it breaks the 2

> and 3

> > > > > forms

> > > > > > of ego) is still an expression of the ego

> > > > > > and an impediment to Self Realization.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Surya Deva represents the

> ego.

> > > > > Surya

> > > > > > represents Consciousness. The ego self is evident in its

> light;

> > > > > like

> > > > > > everything else is evident in its light. Surya is self

> > > effulgent

> > > > > > Consciousness. The Ego calls the consciousness also as

> > > > > > "mine". We call this as conditioned consciousness

> > > (Consciousness,

> > > > > seemingly

> > > > > > conditioned by the ego). This makes it differentiate

> between

> > > the

> > > > > Jivatma

> > > > > > and the Paramatma. Sun, therefore, cannot be said to

> represent

> > > the

> > > > > Ego.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now to Sri Kishore's question:

> > > > > > The most important characteristic of not learning from

> one's

> > > > > mistake is

> > > > > > strength of the sixth lord and its effect on the lagna and

> > > > > lagnesh. This

> > > > > > effect is mitigated by a strong lagna and by dharma

> trikonas.

> > > The

> > > > > 2nd factor

> > > > > > is placement of Mercury (graha ruling discrimination and

> > > reason).

> > > > > Mercury

> > > > > > with Surya is best, as then, the light

> > > > > > of consciousness guides discrimination and reason. If Tamas

> > > grahas

> > > > > are

> > > > > > harming Mercury, then, the person is

> > > > > > unlikely to learn from past.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Retrogression of planets, especially that of Mercury and

> lords

> > > of

> > > > > Dharma

> > > > > > Trikona in transit are likely to help kickstart Self help

> and

> > > > > analysis

> > > > > > of self and past karmas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is an interesting topic and one feels like going on

> and

> > > on.

> > > > > However, I

> > > > > > shall end it here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 8/25/06, suniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ||Om Datta Guru||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekar,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > a) Did you mean Fiery Rasis by the word combatant

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > b) And should both the combinations be present Fiery &

> Dharma

> > > > > Trikona

> > > > > > > houses for the beforesaid to manifest.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > 40>,

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Think about the reverse of humility and you come to

> ego.

> > > Sun

> > > > > > > represents

> > > > > > > > Ego. So Sun with strength in the Dharma trikona will

> be one

> > > > > such

> > > > > > > > combination. Couple it with combatant rasis like Aries

> and

> > > you

> > > > > get the

> > > > > > > > combination for not learning the lessons in humility.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Or at least this is how I would look at it.

> > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hi Chandrasekharji n SJ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This makes me ask one question - what is the

> combination

> > > for

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > observant and not learning the lessons of life in a

> > > native's

> > > > > chart?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@

> > > > > > > > > <suniljohn_2002%40>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yes thats what I meant teaching humility by

> example &

> > > > > telling the

> > > > > > > > > > virtues, didn't phrase it articulately (I think

> here

> > > again

> > > > > grammar

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > wrong )

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sorry members this is waste of cyber space

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40> <%

> > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The best teacher is life itself. Elders can tell

> the

> > > > > virtues of

> > > > > > > > > > humility

> > > > > > > > > > > and show by example, but one has to learn the

> lesson

> > > > > oneself.

> > > > > > > Humility

> > > > > > > > > > > is one lesson that can not be taught but has to

> be

> > > > > learnt. And

> > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > > better one learns it early or life has an old

> > > fashioned

> > > > > way of

> > > > > > > > > > teaching it.

> > > > > > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kaka,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Since Raj is already there its fine. But still

> if

> > > > > elders do

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > teach us

> > > > > > > > > > > > humility & compassion who can unless one is

> self

> > > > > evolved.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > SJ

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>,

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Raj Rao and Sunil,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your confidence in me but I

> must

> > > > > decline. At

> > > > > > > my age,

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > would much rather try to answer what I can

> and be

> > > > > away from

> > > > > > > day to

> > > > > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > > > > > administrative tasks.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > indiadirector wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil and Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to make Chandrashekharji

> the

> > > > > Moderator of

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > Group.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I am not sure what purpose that would

> > > serve,

> > > > > since

> > > > > > > none of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > messages in this list is moderated. The

> > > previleges

> > > > > of a

> > > > > > > > > > Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending messages and photos (Not

> > > required

> > > > > in this

> > > > > > > group)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Approve pending members (Being done by

> owner)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Set auto-send options for files (Too

> technical

> > > to

> > > > > handle)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Invite and add members (everybody can do

> this!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove members and reset bouncing members

> > > > > (technical work)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ban members (Ultimate tool!)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if this is what you

> wish to

> > > > > accomplish

> > > > > > > and I

> > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > do the needful immediately.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > raj rao

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owner and Moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> <%40>

> > > <%40>

> > > > > <%40><%

> > > > > 40>

> > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > > > 40>, "suniljohn_2002"

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > v I rarely read messages from list once

> in 4

> > > > > months but

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shape of this list is pathetic. This list

> > > > > doesn't have a

> > > > > > > > > > moderator

> > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > propose a Sound & Just Man should become

> a

> > > > > Moderator.

> > > > > > > The only

> > > > > > > > > > > > person

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming close to that to my mind is

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > Sharma.

> > > > > > > > > > Others

> > > > > > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe that he is capable should propose

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil John

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have

> been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --------------

> ----

> > > ----

> > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> > > 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ------------------

> ----

> > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:

> 268.11.2/422 -

> > > > > Release

> > > > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > > > 8/17/2006

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------------------

> -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/427 -

> Release

> > > > > Date:

> > > > > > > 8/24/2006

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >