Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Michael Bowes wrote: > > _____ > > [] > On Behalf Of Harsha > Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:22 PM > > Re: Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi and > Memory > > > > Bob OHearn wrote: > > Oy Veh! > > Ask a simple question, eh? > > And yet, my Friend, you've answered it. > > __/\__ > > We try to please. :-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A definition of Nirvikalpa Samadhi by Sri Ramakrishna: > > > > "Again, sometimes God effaces even that trace of 'I'. Then one experiences > jada Samadhi or nirvikalpa Samadhi. That experience cannot be described. A > salt doll went to measure the depth of the ocean, but before it had gone far > into the water it melted away. It became entirely one with the water of the > ocean. Then who was to come back and tell the ocean's depth?" I don't know, but if someone returns at all rest assured the experience, no matter how dazzling was transitory. When there is no world, no body, no duality to return to then we will know we have returned to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: >Then who was to come back and tell the ocean's depth?" Well, Mike, we sure seem to have a lot of chatty salt dolls out and about, yacking it up about the un-yackable, going way back to the vedas and sutras and gospels and even here, all giving their various interpretations and commentaries and such. In any case, I'd offer that, if the awakening experience is not rooted in the here and now, yes -- in one's life and relations -- then it is not really worth much. Inquiry will demonstrate that experiences themselves are nothing but endless modifications of consciousness, and of no ultimate significance, except for that which we might grant to them, based on our particular program, which is itself in a ceaseless state of modification and transformation. Ramana noted that one can remain in Nirvikalpa for years and still not be one step closer to liberation, unless the vasanas are first rooted out. It's in our life and relations where the vasanas come up, and that was what I was originally attempting to dialogue about. __/\__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 _____ [] On Behalf Of Bob OHearn Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:36 PM Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi and Memory - Bob @ <%40> , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: >Then who was to come back and tell the ocean's depth?" Well, Mike, we sure seem to have a lot of chatty salt dolls out and about, yacking it up about the un-yackable, going way back to the vedas and sutras and gospels and even here, all giving their various interpretations and commentaries and such. mb-Yes Bob. Lots!!! Lots of people "yak it up" about the "un-yacable". That's what goes on here on a list like this- either that or nothing. Usually there's nothing going on here. I'm sure that's the way you like it. But some persons attempt to communicate with others, "chat it up", so to speak. Then there's always persons such as yourself who don't seem to respect, but rather, denigrate the inherent limitations, inaccuracies and fallibilities of those who attempt to communicate the ineffable. Love to All, michael In any case, I'd offer that, if the awakening experience is not rooted in the here and now, yes -- in one's life and relations -- then it is not really worth much. Inquiry will demonstrate that experiences themselves are nothing but endless modifications of consciousness, and of no ultimate significance, except for that which we might grant to them, based on our particular program, which is itself in a ceaseless state of modification and transformation. Ramana noted that one can remain in Nirvikalpa for years and still not be one step closer to liberation, unless the vasanas are first rooted out. It's in our life and relations where the vasanas come up, and that was what I was originally attempting to dialogue about. __/\__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Michael Bowes wrote: > mb-Yes Bob. Then there's always persons such as yourself who don't seem to > respect, but rather, denigrate the inherent limitations, inaccuracies and > fallibilities of those who attempt to communicate the ineffable. I must have missed that part. Are all the posts getting through? > In any case, I'd offer that, if the awakening experience is not > rooted in the here and now, yes -- in one's life and relations -- > then it is not really worth much. Inquiry will demonstrate that > experiences themselves are nothing but endless modifications of > consciousness, and of no ultimate significance, except for that which > we might grant to them, based on our particular program, which is > itself in a ceaseless state of modification and transformation. > Ramana noted that one can remain in Nirvikalpa for years and still > not be one step closer to liberation, unless the vasanas are first > rooted out. It's in our life and relations where the vasanas come up, > and that was what I was originally attempting to dialogue about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: > Usually there's nothing going on here. I'm sure that's the way you like it.... But some persons attempt to communicate with others, "chat it up", so to speak. Then there's always persons such as yourself who don't seem to respect, but rather, denigrate the inherent limitations, inaccuracies and fallibilities of those who attempt to communicate the ineffable. What's actually ineffable, Mike, is how you arrive at your skewed assumptions about others. Today, for example, a repeated effort was made at dialogue regarding the impact of an awakening experience. The response spoke for itself. __/\__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 , "Lady Joyce" <shaantih wrote: > > Bob OHearn > > > b wrote... > > Today, for example, a repeated effort was > made at dialogue regarding the impact of an awakening experience. The > response spoke for itself. > ================================================ > > > http://www.omshaantih.com/Photogallery/MI/outloud.htm > > OK, OK on a more serious note, without using foreign words (because I > am not so good at it ;-) I would have to say that those ineffable > experiences which pass by on the cinema screen that is called > my life, have transformed and changed "me" totally. At this moment in > the show, Joyce says... > > Student, enjoy the show! Laugh, cry, love, suffer all you want to, > but know that it is not you doing the doing. Above all, do not judge > yourself for the feelings you have, and do not deny them in the name > of sadhana (oops, sorry :-) On the other hand, do not own them either. > God owns them,and don't you forget it!!! > > Love and dual kisses, > > Joyce > yeah, joyce, right on! the 'nirvikalpa samadhi' "experience" (hard to call it this, because really it is nobody's business lol) simply showed beyond any doubt that "i" is nothing personal, and wherever whenever "i" go - "i am"/"was" there already... and there is nothing else. so, since then (it happened when i was thirty) i do not take things personally, treating "yosy" just like anyone else. and when i came to india (with one way ticket and no money) it was a wonderful year and a half experiece shared by a hundred millions other madmen like me hahaha. it culminated in a way when "by coincidence" i came across a picture of a guy whose humor sparkling eyes said "yes, my friend. this is the way it is". the guy's name, i learned, was ramana maharishi. and this is not a state - states come, states go, but the real is forever and "non-existing" - and the question of existence/non existence does not arise... just not taking anything personally. "i" enjoy and love 'yosy' (along with other apparent names/forms) in spite of him being at times a total asshole - this is nothing personal. watching this most wonderful interplay is pure joy. _()_ yosy ps. there are quite a few madmen like this hanging around, like bob, & mazie, harsha, alan... and, as my mother used to say: "when is a hunchback happy? when he meets another hunchback!" so i am delighted in this company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 In a message dated 8/30/2006 6:38:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hrtbeat7 writes: , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: >Then who was to come back and tell the ocean's depth?" Well, Mike, we sure seem to have a lot of chatty salt dolls out and about, yacking it up about the un-yackable, going way back to the vedas and sutras and gospels and even here, all giving their various interpretations and commentaries and such. In any case, I'd offer that, if the awakening experience is not rooted in the here and now, yes -- in one's life and relations -- then it is not really worth much. Inquiry will demonstrate that experiences themselves are nothing but endless modifications of consciousness, and of no ultimate significance, except for that which we might grant to them, based on our particular program, which is itself in a ceaseless state of modification and transformation. Ramana noted that one can remain in Nirvikalpa for years and still not be one step closer to liberation, unless the vasanas are first rooted out. It's in our life and relations where the vasanas come up, and that was what I was originally attempting to dialogue about. __/\__ Yes, I'm in agreement with that. There seem to be two directions in which we can focus in our spiritual work, even if both of them are primarily inwardly focused as they should be. One is a focus on Absolute Truth, whatever that means to a particular individual at the moment. The other is on our own self created truth of mind/ego. To me, the first one is useful mostly to give a focus on the second. We can't actually learn Truth by studying it or thinking about it, but without a direction, what do we do with this focus on mind/ego and why would we want to explore this illusory truth? A focus exclusively on Truth comes with some risks. One is spiritual ego, cause now that we've studied the 'enlightened' masters, we can sound like we know stuff, which is not a pretty sight. Another is the experiences that often come out of meditation, which are wonderful and powerful and inspiring and major potential ego traps. Some folks imagine they're enlightened, which is really annoying, and others spend the rest of their lives trying to duplicate the experience without realizing that this isn't the goal, and the very need to repeat the experience is the mind entanglement that will prevent it from happening. The second focus, which is an ego focus of integrity, is far more useful and also much safer since ego can't really play it's games while it's being continually examined. However, ego work isn't nearly as glamorous and sometimes it hurts like hell. Since mind/ego gets to decide what direction it goes on it's spiritual path, the vast majority avoid this particular focus for as long as possible, but it's the only thing that works. The only tool we have to find Truth is mind, and mind is an illusion generator that can never know Truth. Even after awakening, mind still has no idea what Truth is because it's not a concept. It's not designed to know Truth. Therefore, all we can do is work with mind to reveal illusion for what it is. When illusion dissolves, Truth remains. And so the entire spiritual path is really a process of exposing the false nature of our own self created illusions. Ego will explore every possible alternative before it challenges itself. How else could it be? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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