UN condemns Israeli strategy as ‘immoral’

[Kulapavana]

UN condemns Israeli strategy as ‘immoral’

 

By Mark Turner at the United Nations, Harvey Morris in Jerusalem and Quentin Peel in Amman

Published: August 30 2006 19:34 | Last updated: August 30 2006 23:08

 

 

The United Nations on Wednesday described as “shocking and immoral” the fact that Israel dropped well over 90 per cent of its cluster munitions in Lebanon during the last three days of the conflict – when it was already clear there would be a cessation of hostilities.

 

Jan Egeland, UN humanitarian chief, made his comments just hours after Kofi Annan, UN secretary-general, left Israel after talks with Ehud Olmert, prime minister, and other government members. The UN said Mr Annan had asked Israel to provide a map of where cluster weapons were used but did not raise Mr Egeland’s concerns because he was unaware of the details during his Jerusalem visit.

Israel intensified its military offensive in southern Lebanon in the 72 hours between Security Resolution 1701 being signed in New York and the ceasefire on August 14.

Cluster weapons contain dozens of small explosives which spread over a wide area and are either air-dropped or ground launched.

The UN said it had identified 359 cluster bomb-strike locations, and that 102,000 unexploded small bombs continued to maim and kill people every day.

“Civilians will die disproportionately again, after the war,” he said. “This should not have happened. It’s an outrage.”

He added that countries which had supplied Israel with the munitions, including the US, should take the matter up with the Israeli government.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/14f48cd2-3855-11db-ae2c-0000779e2340.html

[Samia]

With the United Nations already under fire for the Oil-for-Food mega-scandal and other corruption, sensational allegations of rampant sexual exploitation and rape of young girls and women by the U.N.'s so-called "peacekeepers" and civilian staffers in the Congo is dragging the global body's reputation to an all-time low.

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In a new report referring to the widespread sex scandal as "the U.N.'s Abu Ghraib," the London Times provides some specific examples, including:

 

• A French U.N. logistics expert in the Congo shot pornographic videos in his home, in which he had converted his bedroom into a photo studio for videotaping his sexual abuse of young girls. When police raided his home, the man was allegedly about to rape a 12-year-old girl sent to him in a law enforcement sting operation. As the Times reported, a senior Congolese police officer confirmed the bed was surrounded by large mirrors on three sides, with a remote control camera on the fourth side.
  
• U.N. officials are worried that the scandal, which already has netted 150 allegations of sex crimes by U.N. staffers, will explode if the pornographic videos and photos, now on sale in Congo, becoming public
  "It would be a pretty big problem for the U.N. if these pictures come out," one senior official told the Times.
  
• Two Russian pilots paid young girls with jars of mayonnaise and jam to have sex with them, the report adds.
  
• U.N. "peacekeepers" from Morocco based in Kisangani – a secluded town on the Congo River – are notorious for impregnating local women and girls. In March, an international group probing the scandal found 82 women and girls had been made pregnant by Moroccan U.N. staffers and 59 others by Uruguayan staffers. One U.N. soldier accused of rape was apparently hidden in the barracks for a year.
  Congo's Minister of Defense Maj.-Gen. Jean Pierre Ondekane told a top U.N. official that all U.N. "peacekeepers" in Kisangani would be remember for would be "for running after little girls," the Times reported.
  
• And at least two U.N. officials – a Ukrainian and a Canadian – have been forced to leave the African nation after getting local women pregnant.

Most of the sexual abuse and exploitation, says the report, involves trading sex for money, food or jobs. However, some victims say they were raped, but later given food or money to make the incident appear to have been consensual – "rape disguised as prostitution."

 

 

Like I am going to place value on ANYTHING the UN says

Wow cutting and pasting can be fun

[Kulapavana]

 

Like I am going to place value on ANYTHING the UN says

 

 

so you deny that Israel dropped over 90% of cluster bombs during the last theree days of war, so they could kill as many civilians as possible?

 

Even their sugar daddy US is investigating whether Israel broke secret agreements on cluster bomb use made between these two countries (it was a condition Israel agreed on in order to get these bombs from US - for free, btw.).

 

war criminals exposed one more time. lying, cheating and breaking every rule with impunity.

[Kulapavana]

and if you like dirty scandals, Sarnia, I can paste a lot of articles about white slave trade in Israel - from Israeli press, no less.

[Samia]

 

so you deny that Israel dropped over 90% of cluster bombs during the last theree days of war, so they could kill as many civilians as possible?

 

Even their sugar daddy US is investigating whether Israel broke secret agreements on cluster bomb use made between these two countries (it was a condition Israel agreed on in order to get these bombs from US - for free, btw.).

 

war criminals exposed one more time. lying, cheating and breaking every rule with impunity.

 

No I dont deny anything until it is proven or disproven, I dont however trust any " reports " that come from proven liars who rape and pillage while wearing blue helmets.

I guess your haste to condemm Israel leads you to take claims from pedophiles, rapists, and thieves without pause ?

[Samia]

 

and if you like dirty scandals, Sarnia, I can paste a lot of articles about white slave trade in Israel - from Israeli press, no less.

 

Most thinking individuals are aware of the Eastern European sex trade that has a home in Israel among MANY places. Are you forgetting the many Arab nations, or do you just hate Israel so ?

[Kulapavana]

 

Most thinking individuals are aware of the Eastern European sex trade that has a home in Israel among MANY places. Are you forgetting the many Arab nations, or do you just hate Israel so ?

 

you condemn UN wholesale and reject it's credibility based on the actions of a few corrupt individuals. I wanted to show you that exactly the same can be done with the state of Israel where prostitution is fully legal and slave trade semi-legal, and where many elected government officials are utterly corrupt.

 

and Israel is without any doubt the hub and home base of that sex slave trade, organized by Jewish mobsters 10 times worse than good old Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky, and where such callous monsters can feel safe and at home, protected from international law.

 

as usual, you do not address the merit of the case but attack the messenger.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Who cares about that sex-trade issue - it really has nothing to do with this topic...

 

It was once said that the U.N. is a "...useless debating club..." - that really is true for all intents and purposes.

 

If Israel used such 'cluster' weapons in the last days of the war - it was only because hezbollah was engaged in the well-known practice of attacking from within and - hiding amongst - civillian populations.

 

What are the reasons that the U.N. has failed to understand why such groups choose such cowardly and irregular fighting practices? When dealing with such irregular fighters [terrorists] - like hezbollah - what can be done?

 

I wonder if the U.N. is invesitgating and condemning that hezbollah loaded all their rockets with ballbearings and shrapnel plates?

It should be noted that these rockets were directed at civillian population centers - where there were no IDF soldiers 'hiding out'!

These rockets were not directed as a means to attack other soldiers - they were directed at civillians - with little chance of affecting the IDF - YES - hezbollah knew this and - that was their heinous plan - kill as many Israeli civillians as possible - so what is the 'problem' here?

Of course - in targeting civillians - the many homocide bombers have done this [use of ballbearings and shrapnel plates] as well.

 

Is the U.N. investigating how the U.N. failed to prevent hezbollah form forming as a state within a state - how the U.N. failed to cut off the flow of cash [from where?] that hezbollah uses to buy the Lebanese populations [through socialism i might add] - how they failed to prevent this state within a state from forming as a irregular and heavily armed forces??

 

There is too much wrong with the U.N. - it really needs to be reformed and one thing to forward doing that - is to replace Annan and - his entire do nothing team.

 

So the more our world's useless debating club faults Israel while at the same moment permitting groups like hezbollah to grow - the more we see what is really going on.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Funny how this noted situation with Israel and the U.N. smacks in the face of the false propaganda - that 'zionists control the U.N.' - are there still people who think that after seeing how the U.N. is targetting Israel?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Iran defied a UN deadline Thursday to stop enriching uranium...

 

http://ca.news./s/31082006/2/world-iran-s-president-defies-un-deadline-stop-uranium-enrichment.html

 

So is it any surprise that Iran is operating as though there was no U.N. - why would that be? Again the U.N. failed with Iran - they failed to prevent it from getting this far - so - whatever they do now - what good shall it be?

 

The truth is there are places that 'revolutions' are not irregular - where the leaders are so very irregular themselves - as in Iran...

 

There are no freedoms in Iran - it must be a horrible place and - if something isn't done to change the direction this is all going then - what shall be the result? The president of Iran has placed his nation on a course of confrontation with the world. The fact is - if there is any hope for the Iranians then - their leaders better get a good introspective look at themselves - they really are in need of a serious reality check...

[Guest guest]

 

Iran defied a UN deadline Thursday to stop enriching uranium...

 

So is it any surprise that Iran is operating as though there was no U.N. - why would that be? Again the U.N. failed with Iran - they failed to prevent it from getting this far - so - whatever they do now - what good shall it be?

 

The truth is there are places that 'revolutions' are not irregular - where the leaders are so very irregular themselves - as in Iran...

 

There are no freedoms in Iran - it must be a horrible place and - if something isn't done to change the direction this is all going then - what shall be the result? The president of Iran has placed his nation on a course of confrontation with the world. The fact is - if there is any hope for the Iranians then - their leaders better get a good introspective look at themselves - they really are in need of a serious reality check...

 

Since the GBC doesnt comment on Harivilasa prabhu's publicly telling that he voted twice for Bush and why he did so, it should be clear that all GBC members voted for Bush twice.

 

<STRONG>"At that meeting, our local GBC, Harivilasa dasa, stated in front of a number of senior local devotees that he is 100% in favour of George Bush, and voted for him twice. He said that one of the reasons he likes Bush so much is because he went after the Muslims. Harivilasa thought it was great that under Bush's direction, the Americans 'bombed the hell' out of Afghanistan, because now we can go preach to them without interference from the fanatical Muslims." </STRONG>

------------

<STRONG>Serious Misstep if True???? </STRONG>

BY: PRAGHOSA DASA (ACBSP) NYC

 

Aug 31, NEW YORK (SUN) — It was with the greatest alarm that I read the article, Harivilasa dasa on Muslims.

 

I offered some comments on this subject a few days back and I would like to comment again.

 

If any Governing Body Secretary is expressing political opinion, and horribly and childishly ill-informed at that, to the devotees under his supervision - he should voluntarily surrender his post. Plain and simple. I cannot emphasize this more clearly.

 

Hari Vilasa prahbu is certainly a senior man and I mean him no disrespect whatsoever - but I consider this to be so important - I will personally request a formal inquiry into this conduct - immediately - by our Governing Body.

 

My email address is pdhedemark@ and Hari Vilasa prabhu can contact me if he likes. I would also request any GBC Man who understands the gravity of the accusations made in the above article to contact me immediately to discuss the gravity of this. I simply cannot stress this enough.

 

I have noted most of the back and forth that has sprung up on both Dandavats.com and also Harekrsna.com with these discussions. Oddly - the entire matter sprung up after the incident in Manipur and it appears that no one connected to Islam was even involved in that unfortunate incident! Sadly - it demonstrates how severely affected people of the West are by the "delivery system" for propaganda - the Television and Mass Media - Even the devotees themselves!

 

If Hari Vilasa prabhu indeed did make this statement publicly - amongst devotees working under his supervision - he demonstrates extremely poor judgment as a representative of the Governing Body Commission of Srila Prabhupada's International Society for Krsna Consciousness.

 

Such comments - devoid of any connection to reality in terms of our Spotless Philosophy of Krsna Consciousness - also demonstrate a very ill informed individual who is perhaps too affected by his own previous bias. Srila Prabhupada was fond of the expression "POOR FUND OF KNOWLEDGE" to describe those whose knowledge is incomplete spiritually and/or materially.

 

To openly endorse the person and actions of extraordinarily misguided leaders - who openly violate every single principle held as sacred by the simplest of human beings - what to speak of Vaisnavas - while representing our Governing Body Commission of the International Society for Krsna Consciousness is unconscionable. It is reckless and misguided in the extreme.

 

The American System of Government is not at all ideal and it is also NOTHING it purports to be. Simplistic comments such as those purported to have been offered by Hari Vilasa prabhu demonstrate cognitive dissonance of a great magnitude. I simply cannot discuss how utterly disconnected from reality his views are in this or any devotee site.

 

If anyone wishes - I will be happy to help you understand the reality of our present plight both here in the United States abroad and how we as representatives of Srila Prabhupada are obliged to discuss and deal with these facts - especially in the public domain and most especially when it could seriously affect our effectiveness as Srila Prabhupada's representatives.

 

Ordinarily I would not express such candid rejection of someone's actions publicly. I am not seeking to embarrass our Godbrother Hari Vilasa prabhu. And perhaps his comments were not as public as the article indicated. However - this simply cannot be allowed to go further without being swiftly and directly dealt with.

 

Attaching the name or reputation of ISKCON to what is viewed by most of the world as unfortunate at best and purely evil at worst - is a very serious misstep by Hari Vilasa prabhu.

 

 

With respect,

 

Praghosa Das

[Samia]

 

you condemn UN wholesale and reject it's credibility based on the actions of a few corrupt individuals.

 

as usual, you do not address the merit of the case but attack the messenger.

 

I cited ONE example of the UN are you really that thick

 

As I stated I cannot dismiss the charges or accept them until they are examined by a reputable body not a corrupt to the bone debate club.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Since the GBC doesnt comment on Harivilasa prabhu's publicly telling that he voted twice for Bush and why he did so, it should be clear that all GBC members voted for Bush twice.

 

"At that meeting, our local GBC, Harivilasa dasa, stated in front of a number of senior local devotees that he is 100% in favour of George Bush, and voted for him twice. He said that one of the reasons he likes Bush so much is because he went after the Muslims. Harivilasa thought it was great that under Bush's direction, the Americans 'bombed the hell' out of Afghanistan, because now we can go preach to them without interference from the fanatical Muslims."

------------

Serious Misstep if True????

BY: PRAGHOSA DASA (ACBSP) NYC

 

Aug 31, NEW YORK (SUN) — It was with the greatest alarm that I read the article, Harivilasa dasa on Muslims.

 

I offered some comments on this subject a few days back and I would like to comment again.

 

If any Governing Body Secretary is expressing political opinion, and horribly and childishly ill-informed at that, to the devotees under his supervision - he should voluntarily surrender his post. Plain and simple. I cannot emphasize this more clearly.

 

Hari Vilasa prahbu is certainly a senior man and I mean him no disrespect whatsoever - but I consider this to be so important - I will personally request a formal inquiry into this conduct - immediately - by our Governing Body.

 

My email address is pdhedemark@ and Hari Vilasa prabhu can contact me if he likes. I would also request any GBC Man who understands the gravity of the accusations made in the above article to contact me immediately to discuss the gravity of this. I simply cannot stress this enough.

 

I have noted most of the back and forth that has sprung up on both Dandavats.com and also Harekrsna.com with these discussions. Oddly - the entire matter sprung up after the incident in Manipur and it appears that no one connected to Islam was even involved in that unfortunate incident! Sadly - it demonstrates how severely affected people of the West are by the "delivery system" for propaganda - the Television and Mass Media - Even the devotees themselves!

 

If Hari Vilasa prabhu indeed did make this statement publicly - amongst devotees working under his supervision - he demonstrates extremely poor judgment as a representative of the Governing Body Commission of Srila Prabhupada's International Society for Krsna Consciousness.

 

Such comments - devoid of any connection to reality in terms of our Spotless Philosophy of Krsna Consciousness - also demonstrate a very ill informed individual who is perhaps too affected by his own previous bias. Srila Prabhupada was fond of the expression "POOR FUND OF KNOWLEDGE" to describe those whose knowledge is incomplete spiritually and/or materially.

 

To openly endorse the person and actions of extraordinarily misguided leaders - who openly violate every single principle held as sacred by the simplest of human beings - what to speak of Vaisnavas - while representing our Governing Body Commission of the International Society for Krsna Consciousness is unconscionable. It is reckless and misguided in the extreme.

 

The American System of Government is not at all ideal and it is also NOTHING it purports to be. Simplistic comments such as those purported to have been offered by Hari Vilasa prabhu demonstrate cognitive dissonance of a great magnitude. I simply cannot discuss how utterly disconnected from reality his views are in this or any devotee site.

 

If anyone wishes - I will be happy to help you understand the reality of our present plight both here in the United States abroad and how we as representatives of Srila Prabhupada are obliged to discuss and deal with these facts - especially in the public domain and most especially when it could seriously affect our effectiveness as Srila Prabhupada's representatives.

 

Ordinarily I would not express such candid rejection of someone's actions publicly. I am not seeking to embarrass our Godbrother Hari Vilasa prabhu. And perhaps his comments were not as public as the article indicated. However - this simply cannot be allowed to go further without being swiftly and directly dealt with.

 

Attaching the name or reputation of ISKCON to what is viewed by most of the world as unfortunate at best and purely evil at worst - is a very serious misstep by Hari Vilasa prabhu.

 

 

With respect,

 

Praghosa Das

 

 

Why are you pointing this posting at me?

 

I sure hope that it's not because you haven't read enough of my postings to know that I've never said anything even close to: "he went after the Muslims. Harivilasa thought it was great that under Bush's direction, the Americans 'bombed the hell' out of Afghanistan, because now we can go preach to them without interference from the fanatical Muslims." - never have i said ANYTHING like that.

 

As for any other comments that i've made - what is wrong in them? Also i now support Bush and the reasons i do so are well explained by me - it has nothing to do with comments like this Harivilasa prabhu's comments.

 

As well - even GBC have a right to think what they choose to and to discuss it too - would we see the same outrage for a Bush positive postion in a GBC member - without the noted faux pas comments?

 

As for Manipur - has it been confirmed who it was that did it? As long as that isn't confirmed there is every possibility it may have been an islamist or an islamist movement - of course - it was NOT Islam and it was NOT muslims - which did that.

 

Quote:

 

To openly endorse the person and actions of extraordinarily misguided leaders - who openly violate every single principle held as sacred by the simplest of human beings - what to speak of Vaisnavas - while representing our Governing Body Commission of the International Society for Krsna Consciousness is unconscionable. It is reckless and misguided in the extreme.

 

Reply:

 

I think that that comment is as unfair and nonsensical - as the one he is condemning - that really is just HIS opinion and - who is he to say that that is the opinion and position that the GBC should endorse to the world...

 

I wonder what Praghosa Dasa thinks of this point:

 

...This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali... [sB 1.17.28, purport]

 

So who are the executive heads of state in this case and who are the persons influenced by the age of Kali - if our baffled and lackluster national western leaders do not stand-up to these other thugs - then - they are no better than these noted terrorists - or if we may - irregular fighters - without doubt ISKCON enjoys freedom to exist within these 'western regimes' freedoms that couldn't be realized within the islamist regimes...

 

So what is your point in posting this article here in this thread?

 

hari bolo!

[Guest guest]

 

Why are you pointing this posting at me?

 

So what is your point in posting this article here in this thread?

 

hari bolo!

 

Om Shalom haribol,

dont worry BDM, after all is it so bad to be after the Muslims? Why feel uncomfortable to admit? This forum is ok you can say openly what's on your mind! Dont be ashamed like that, I guess it's also ok for Kula.

[Kulapavana]

 

..after all is it so bad to be after the Muslims? Why feel uncomfortable to admit? This forum is ok you can say openly what's on your mind! Dont be ashamed like that, I guess it's also ok for Kula.

 

it should be ok to go after all evildoers on this forum: Muslim, Jewish, American or any other. people like BDM criticize just one rotten lot because the other one is from their own family. that is of course blatant materialism. people like him or Harivilasa work for a certain lobby as it is clear from their actions.

 

anybody who thinks you can bomb people into accepting your religion is a certified idiot, not worthy of a serious discussion. such people dont have even most rudimentary understanding of spirituality and act on the level of medieval clergy who gladly supported the slaughter and forced conversions of all "heathens".

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

 

anybody who thinks you can bomb people into accepting your religion is a certified idiot

 

That is an islamist programme - not an Israeli one...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Om Shalom haribol,

dont worry BDM, after all is it so bad to be after the Muslims? Why feel uncomfortable to admit? This forum is ok you can say openly what's on your mind! Dont be ashamed like that, I guess it's also ok for Kula.

 

Om Shalom Hari Bolo! If i felt that way I would say so - but of course i do not feel that way - as for going after evil doers - that isn't what this is about...and - Kula knows that.

[Kulapavana]

 

That is an islamist programme - not an Israeli one...

 

apparently other idiots think like that too:

 

"At that meeting, our local GBC, Harivilasa dasa, stated in front of a number of senior local devotees that he is 100% in favour of George Bush, and voted for him twice. He said that one of the reasons he likes Bush so much is because he went after the Muslims. Harivilasa thought it was great that under Bush's direction, the Americans 'bombed the hell' out of Afghanistan, because now we can go preach to them without interference from the fanatical Muslims."

 

 

and dont be shy BDM, you said exactly the same thing on this forum more than once.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

 

people like BDM criticize just one rotten lot because the other one is from their own family.

Where the heck do you surmise all that from dear soul?

[Guest guest]

 

Where the heck do you surmise all that from dear soul?

 

Prabhupada: If I say, the government may arrest me that I am infusing people in a different way. But that is the fact.

[Kulapavana]

 

Where the heck do you surmise all that from dear soul?

 

I do not recall you ever getting on the case of Israelis despite some of their blatantly wicked actions, and as you are Jewish (despite your early denials) that seems very much like material partiality to me.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

 

I do not recall you ever getting on the case of Israelis despite some of their blatantly wicked actions, and as you are Jewish (despite your early denials) that seems very much like material partiality to me.

 

First of all - if you read the Origins of the Satan Myth... thread you would have seen that I do castigate extremists of all persuasion and naturally - that included Israeli extremists too - so please go back and read that it is everywhere in that thread - you have some nerve saying that i've never gotten on the case of the israeli side - just recall my postings - [if i feel like it] later today i'll post some examples.

 

 

Now - do you expect me to take you serious here - prove to me that I'm jewish - because that would be news to me - do you know my Irish mother's maternal history?

 

Truth is I could be Jewish and - I wish I were jewish - do know that.

 

I'll brace for the wind about to be posted back - seriously - where do you get the idea that i'm jewish? What kind of body were you born in?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Prabhupada: If I say, the government may arrest me that I am infusing people in a different way. But that is the fact.

 

So what does that mean here to this? Please explain your quote and cite it's chapter/text location for us?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

apparently other idiots think like that too:

 

"At that meeting, our local GBC, Harivilasa dasa, stated in front of a number of senior local devotees that he is 100% in favour of George Bush, and voted for him twice. He said that one of the reasons he likes Bush so much is because he went after the Muslims. Harivilasa thought it was great that under Bush's direction, the Americans 'bombed the hell' out of Afghanistan, because now we can go preach to them without interference from the fanatical Muslims."

 

 

and dont be shy BDM, you said exactly the same thing on this forum more than once.

 

If it was more than once it should be very easy to present a copy and paste of my so-called comments - please do that kulapavana - don't try to trick the readers here - but - you won't - because there are no such comments from me - that is why I didn't leave the Cresent and Star off my pictures [nor on the variations of these] :

 

 

 

You kulapavana are the one that doesn't accept that Allah is Vishnu is Yahweh - not i...!

 

You well know that even Prabhupada says that - he says that 'God is God' and - you still refuse to accept the truth.

 

So please post my comments where you think i've said the exact same thing as whatshisname - AND - do not post anything that was directed at the islamists as that then proves that you don't know the difference between real muslims and islamists...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

...i hope this thread don't end-up getting locked later today...hint hint to everyone [including me!!!] to try to be somewhat cordial in our postings!