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David,

 

I am not sure what you are asking. Once in a while, we hear of yogis

going into samadhi and passing away like that, although it is not

common. My teacher's teacher's teacher was well over a 100 when he

called his students and went into samadhi and left the body. That does

happen and some yogi adepts can consciously leave their bodies at the

time of their death. I don't think this is equated with

Self-Realization, although it is possible that some Self-Realized sages

have left in this manner due to their karmic destiny. A second way, the

way in my teacher's teacher left was through gradual fasting and

meditating over a prolonged period. This is an accepted traditional way

of leaving and is believed can lead to Self-Realization and liberation

for some people.

 

Harsha

 

David wrote:

>

> or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> they just dropped dead?

>

>

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Oh yes.. Many. I haven't known any of them personally, except for one who

nearly died.

 

 

 

There are many such instances...

 

 

 

Ramana Maharshi himself might of died while he was in his months long

Samadhi in the Patala Lingam cellar at Arunachalashwar Temple. He was saved

by Seshadri Swamigal. The following is an excerpt from a story about

Seshadri Swamigal that can be found here

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/seshadri.html .

 

 

 

In fact it was Seshadri Swamigal who rescued the young Ramana when the

latter was immersed in penance in the underground vault called Patala Lingam

located in the Thousand-pillared Hall of the Arunachaleshwarar temple, while

ants and other insects were gnawing away at his body.

 

 

 

I am leaving for an appointment now. Perhaps later this weekend I can give

you some more examples.

 

 

 

Love to all,

 

michael

 

 

 

_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of David

Friday, September 01, 2006 1:14 PM

 

Does anybody know anyone

 

 

 

or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

they just dropped dead?

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Harsha wrote:

>

> David,

>

> I am not sure what you are asking.

 

What I was asking was, can Self-Realization Itself

be the Cause of physical death.

 

Thanks very much Harsha & Michael for your responses.

 

 

 

> Once in a while, we hear of yogis

> going into samadhi and passing away like that, although it is not

> common. My teacher's teacher's teacher was well over a 100 when he

> called his students and went into samadhi and left the body. That does

> happen and some yogi adepts can consciously leave their bodies at the

> time of their death. I don't think this is equated with

> Self-Realization, although it is possible that some Self-Realized sages

> have left in this manner due to their karmic destiny. A second way, the

> way in my teacher's teacher left was through gradual fasting and

> meditating over a prolonged period. This is an accepted traditional way

> of leaving and is believed can lead to Self-Realization and liberation

> for some people.

 

 

 

> David wrote:

> >

> > or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> > they just dropped dead?

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Actually, there is a Sufi tale about a Persian poet who became so transported during a Zikr that the musicians were fearful of stopping their playing because they did not want to end his ecstatic trance. But after several days, their strength gave out, they stopped, and the poet promptly died.

I heard this story perhaps five or six years ago.

 

David <david.bozzi (AT) softhome (DOT) net> wrote:

or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

they just dropped dead?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail.

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_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of David

Friday, September 01, 2006 1:14 PM

 

Does anybody know anyone

 

 

 

or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

they just dropped dead?

 

 

 

Certain "real I zations" exert a tremendous force upon the body that can,

and sometimes do, result in death and or suicide. (Death and or suicide?)

 

Certain other realities i.e. nirvikalpa samdhi, deny One the ability to

function in the "world" some times resulting in the death of the realizer.

 

The enlightenment supposition is nothing more than an observation of

evolution.....

 

There is an evolutionary process in motion that sometimes results in over

supply of shakti and it can kill..

 

But it ain't no thang 'cause everyBody's gonna die... Not you; but yo

body..

 

Don't panic. There's nothing to worry about, because most people will never

get anywhere near the "real thing"..

 

 

 

Love and bliss and peace

 

There is no peace (shanti) without power (shakti)

 

michael

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Every now and then, a trip into conceptual hell is useful.

Okay, lemme see........An individualized perspective (a human) arises

spontaneously out of Consciousness as a kind of energy of unrealized experience.

IOW, you seemingly exist only because you represent an aspect of the Totality of

Consciousness that was not currently being experientially realized. In this

respect, you're absolutely unique in all of creation, and the reflection

would not be complete without you.

 

As such, your experience arises from within your own dynamics of awareness,

desire, thought feeling, etc that 'caused' you to seemingly exist in the first

place. You could say that your purpose is to experience and express that

aspect, but purpose is just a human conceptualization of a 'process' that occurs

spontaneously and without design.

 

This experiential aspect seemingly dies when the experience is complete, in

much the same way that a nightly dream ends when the mental/emotional energy

that initiates the dream has been exhausted in it's expression.

 

While the purpose of life is not to attain enlightenment, desire for

completion is the force that gives life movement, and the movement is necessary for

experience to occur. This is a movement 'occurring' within Consciousness.

Once Consciousness has withdrawn it's fixated 'deer in the headlights'

identification with the experiential vehicle (enlightenment), we might ponder in what

way that vehicle continues to serve it's 'purpose' in it's role as an

experiential aspect of Consciousness.

 

We can certainly imagine the meaning of an enlightened master who teaches a

conceptualized version of what is known beyond the limitations of this

vehicle, and we can imagine this is why many remain in physical form. But for many

others, we can see how the journey has truly come to an end and the

experiential vehicle simply serves no purpose and dissolves from the experiential

dreamscape. The actual physical 'cause' of this death is simply an experiential

expression of an exit that takes place because the energy that formed the

perspective is no longer present. Cause/effect is part of the illusion, and nobody

ever dies from a physical cause.

 

It is, of course, of no consequence at all to the individual. There is no

longer an individual. Hencely, there's nothing at all to fear.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

 

[] On Behalf Of David

Friday, September 01, 2006 1:14 PM

 

Does anybody know anyone

 

 

 

 

 

or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

they just dropped dead?

Certain “real I zations†exert a tremendous force upon the body that can,

and sometimes do, result in death and or suicide. (Death and or suicide?)

Certain other realities i.e. nirvikalpa samdhi, deny One the ability to

function in the “world†some times resulting in the death of the realizer…

The enlightenment supposition is nothing more than an observation of

evolution……………

There is an evolutionary process in motion that sometimes results in over

supply of shakti and it can kill….

But it ain’t no thang ‘cause everyBody’s gonna die……… Not you; but yo

body……

Don’t panic. There’s nothing to worry about, because most people will

never get anywhere near the “real thingâ€â€¦â€¦

Love and bliss and peace

There is no peace (shanti) without power (shakti)

michael

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, ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> Every now and then, a trip into conceptual hell is useful.

> Okay, lemme see........An individualized perspective (a human)

arises

> spontaneously out of Consciousness as a kind of energy of

unrealized experience.

> IOW, you seemingly exist only because you represent an aspect of

the Totality of

> Consciousness that was not currently being experientially

realized. In this

> respect, you're absolutely unique in all of creation, and the

reflection

> would not be complete without you.

>

> As such, your experience arises from within your own dynamics of

awareness,

> desire, thought feeling, etc that 'caused' you to seemingly exist

in the first

> place. You could say that your purpose is to experience and

express that

> aspect, but purpose is just a human conceptualization of

a 'process' that occurs

> spontaneously and without design.

>

> This experiential aspect seemingly dies when the experience is

complete, in

> much the same way that a nightly dream ends when the

mental/emotional energy

> that initiates the dream has been exhausted in it's expression.

>

> While the purpose of life is not to attain enlightenment, desire

for

> completion is the force that gives life movement, and the movement

is necessary for

> experience to occur. This is a movement 'occurring' within

Consciousness.

> Once Consciousness has withdrawn it's fixated 'deer in the

headlights'

> identification with the experiential vehicle (enlightenment), we

might ponder in what

> way that vehicle continues to serve it's 'purpose' in it's role as

an

> experiential aspect of Consciousness.

>

> We can certainly imagine the meaning of an enlightened master who

teaches a

> conceptualized version of what is known beyond the limitations of

this

> vehicle, and we can imagine this is why many remain in physical

form. But for many

> others, we can see how the journey has truly come to an end and

the

> experiential vehicle simply serves no purpose and dissolves from

the experiential

> dreamscape. The actual physical 'cause' of this death is simply

an experiential

> expression of an exit that takes place because the energy that

formed the

> perspective is no longer present. Cause/effect is part of the

illusion, and nobody

> ever dies from a physical cause.

>

> It is, of course, of no consequence at all to the individual.

There is no

> longer an individual. Hencely, there's nothing at all to fear.

>

> Phil

 

 

Hi Phil,

 

Nice to see 'you' 'here';-)

 

Every endeavor found by human ingenuity inquiry and the will to

survive has been given a name : philosophy, psychology, quantum

physics, religion, etc., as a method to explain the inexplicable:

how it is that it is. This miracle and mystery of presence, called

life.

 

I think 'enlightenment' is just the first step in the evolution of

mankind. So far, every -ology has evolved the possible human. Now

as an enlightened - Be-Ing - wo/mankind is evolving as an

evolutionary force in and of itself. Something we have not yet

experienced. Or perhapas this is the end of all. And those of us

who still have speaking parts in this play, are leaving, one by one.

 

;-)

 

Anna

 

 

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [] On Behalf Of David

> Friday, September 01, 2006 1:14 PM

>

> Does anybody know anyone

>

>

>

>

>

> or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> they just dropped dead?

> Certain “real I zations†exert a tremendous force upon the

body that can,

> and sometimes do, result in death and or suicide. (Death and or

suicide?)

> Certain other realities i.e. nirvikalpa samdhi, deny One the

ability to

> function in the “world†some times resulting in the death of

the realizer…

> The enlightenment supposition is nothing more than an observation

of

> evolution……………

> There is an evolutionary process in motion that sometimes results

in over

> supply of shakti and it can kill….

> But it ain’t no thang ‘cause everyBody’s gonna

die……… Not you; but yo

> body……

> Don’t panic. There’s nothing to worry about, because most

people will

> never get anywhere near the “real thingâ€â€¦â€¦

> Love and bliss and peace

> There is no peace (shanti) without power (shakti)

> michael

>

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, "David" <david.bozzi wrote:

>

> or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> they just dropped dead?

>

 

 

:) david dear, "enlightenment" is death of the apparent

ego identity, realization that the self is not personal,

and has nothing to do with form, name, birth and death,

etc... thus the sufis say: "die before you die". so it

may be said that whoever 'becomes enlightened' dies then

and there. as for the way it appears - it does not matter

in the slightest...

 

yosy

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_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:14 AM

 

Re: Does anybody know anyone

 

 

 

@ <%40>

, "David" <david.bozzi wrote:

>

> or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> they just dropped dead?

>

 

:) david dear, "enlightenment" is death of the apparent

ego identity, realization that the self is not personal,

and has nothing to do with form, name, birth and death,

etc... thus the sufis say: "die before you die". so it

may be said that whoever 'becomes enlightened' dies then

and there. as for the way it appears - it does not matter

in the slightest...

 

yosy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the Bible Jesus says:

 

He who seeks to save his life shall lose it; but he who loses his life (for

the sake of knowledge) will save it...

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, "yosyx" <yosyflug wrote:

>

> , "David" <david.bozzi@>

wrote:

> >

> > or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> > they just dropped dead?

> >

>

>

> :) david dear, "enlightenment" is death of the apparent

> ego identity, realization that the self is not personal,

> and has nothing to do with form, name, birth and death,

> etc... thus the sufis say: "die before you die". so it

> may be said that whoever 'becomes enlightened' dies then

> and there. as for the way it appears - it does not matter

> in the slightest...

>

> yosy

>

 

 

ahhh, identities

 

SHADOLAND

 

Release me from my Poet's heart,

my Darling,

 

I cannot stay this near and be so

far away

 

I cannot hold you and let you go

with the same hands,

 

I am incarcerated in time and distance,

and you and I,

 

wet wilderness to open sky and

frothy dialogue of moon to

rising sea

 

only the night air

lingers now

 

as our shadows gather

beyond the stars,

break waves.

 

 

 

Anna

9/2/06

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In a message dated 9/2/2006 4:25:38 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

kailashana (AT) cox (DOT) net writes:

 

, ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> Every now and then, a trip into conceptual hell is useful.

> Okay, lemme see........An individualized perspective (a human)

arises

> spontaneously out of Consciousness as a kind of energy of

unrealized experience.

> IOW, you seemingly exist only because you represent an aspect of

the Totality of

> Consciousness that was not currently being experientially

realized. In this

> respect, you're absolutely unique in all of creation, and the

reflection

> would not be complete without you.

>

> As such, your experience arises from within your own dynamics of

awareness,

> desire, thought feeling, etc that 'caused' you to seemingly exist

in the first

> place. You could say that your purpose is to experience and

express that

> aspect, but purpose is just a human conceptualization of

a 'process' that occurs

> spontaneously and without design.

>

> This experiential aspect seemingly dies when the experience is

complete, in

> much the same way that a nightly dream ends when the

mental/emotional energy

> that initiates the dream has been exhausted in it's expression.

>

> While the purpose of life is not to attain enlightenment, desire

for

> completion is the force that gives life movement, and the movement

is necessary for

> experience to occur. This is a movement 'occurring' within

Consciousness.

> Once Consciousness has withdrawn it's fixated 'deer in the

headlights'

> identification with the experiential vehicle (enlightenment), we

might ponder in what

> way that vehicle continues to serve it's 'purpose' in it's role as

an

> experiential aspect of Consciousness.

>

> We can certainly imagine the meaning of an enlightened master who

teaches a

> conceptualized version of what is known beyond the limitations of

this

> vehicle, and we can imagine this is why many remain in physical

form. But for many

> others, we can see how the journey has truly come to an end and

the

> experiential vehicle simply serves no purpose and dissolves from

the experiential

> dreamscape. The actual physical 'cause' of this death is simply

an experiential

> expression of an exit that takes place because the energy that

formed the

> perspective is no longer present. Cause/effect is part of the

illusion, and nobody

> ever dies from a physical cause.

>

> It is, of course, of no consequence at all to the individual.

There is no

> longer an individual. Hencely, there's nothing at all to fear.

>

> Phil

 

 

Hi Phil,

 

Nice to see 'you' 'here';-)

 

Every endeavor found by human ingenuity inquiry and the will to

survive has been given a name : philosophy, psychology, quantum

physics, religion, etc., as a method to explain the inexplicable:

how it is that it is. This miracle and mystery of presence, called

life.

 

I think 'enlightenment' is just the first step in the evolution of

mankind. So far, every -ology has evolved the possible human. Now

as an enlightened - Be-Ing - wo/mankind is evolving as an

evolutionary force in and of itself. Something we have not yet

experienced. Or perhapas this is the end of all. And those of us

who still have speaking parts in this play, are leaving, one by one.

 

;-)

 

Anna

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hard to keep a good Phil-osopher down. :)~

 

 

 

Funny thing about 'ology' evolution; it's actually an expression of an

evolution of awareness rather than any sort of cause.

Yeah, I would say that, once humanity awakens from the dream, the dreamscape

is no longer meaningful, and planet ego dissolves. It's difficult to see how

this particular game of perception and dissection with a dualistic mind

could continue.

 

Howsoever, it seems likely we can invent a new game, the rules of which

couldn't possibly be seen from a dualistic perspective........Okay, God's sitting

here nudging me saying, 'Phil, that's all nonsense. Stop that before you

embarrass yourself.'

 

Okay, then you write it!

 

'You're just digging yourself in deeper, ya know.'

 

OOOOkaaaay, I'm done now.....Sheesh!

 

Phil

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, ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 9/2/2006 4:25:38 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> kailashana writes:

>

> , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Every now and then, a trip into conceptual hell is useful.

> > Okay, lemme see........An individualized perspective (a human)

> arises

> > spontaneously out of Consciousness as a kind of energy of

> unrealized experience.

> > IOW, you seemingly exist only because you represent an aspect

of

> the Totality of

> > Consciousness that was not currently being experientially

> realized. In this

> > respect, you're absolutely unique in all of creation, and the

> reflection

> > would not be complete without you.

> >

> > As such, your experience arises from within your own dynamics

of

> awareness,

> > desire, thought feeling, etc that 'caused' you to seemingly

exist

> in the first

> > place. You could say that your purpose is to experience and

> express that

> > aspect, but purpose is just a human conceptualization of

> a 'process' that occurs

> > spontaneously and without design.

> >

> > This experiential aspect seemingly dies when the experience is

> complete, in

> > much the same way that a nightly dream ends when the

> mental/emotional energy

> > that initiates the dream has been exhausted in it's expression.

> >

> > While the purpose of life is not to attain enlightenment,

desire

> for

> > completion is the force that gives life movement, and the

movement

> is necessary for

> > experience to occur. This is a movement 'occurring' within

> Consciousness.

> > Once Consciousness has withdrawn it's fixated 'deer in the

> headlights'

> > identification with the experiential vehicle (enlightenment),

we

> might ponder in what

> > way that vehicle continues to serve it's 'purpose' in it's role

as

> an

> > experiential aspect of Consciousness.

> >

> > We can certainly imagine the meaning of an enlightened master

who

> teaches a

> > conceptualized version of what is known beyond the limitations

of

> this

> > vehicle, and we can imagine this is why many remain in

physical

> form. But for many

> > others, we can see how the journey has truly come to an end and

> the

> > experiential vehicle simply serves no purpose and dissolves

from

> the experiential

> > dreamscape. The actual physical 'cause' of this death is

simply

> an experiential

> > expression of an exit that takes place because the energy

that

> formed the

> > perspective is no longer present. Cause/effect is part of the

> illusion, and nobody

> > ever dies from a physical cause.

> >

> > It is, of course, of no consequence at all to the individual.

> There is no

> > longer an individual. Hencely, there's nothing at all to fear.

> >

> > Phil

>

>

> Hi Phil,

>

> Nice to see 'you' 'here';-)

>

> Every endeavor found by human ingenuity inquiry and the will to

> survive has been given a name : philosophy, psychology, quantum

> physics, religion, etc., as a method to explain the inexplicable:

> how it is that it is. This miracle and mystery of presence,

called

> life.

>

> I think 'enlightenment' is just the first step in the evolution

of

> mankind. So far, every -ology has evolved the possible human.

Now

> as an enlightened - Be-Ing - wo/mankind is evolving as an

> evolutionary force in and of itself. Something we have not yet

> experienced. Or perhapas this is the end of all. And those of

us

> who still have speaking parts in this play, are leaving, one by

one.

>

> ;-)

>

> Anna

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hard to keep a good Phil-osopher down. :)~

>

>

>

> Funny thing about 'ology' evolution; it's actually an expression

of an

> evolution of awareness rather than any sort of cause.

> Yeah, I would say that, once humanity awakens from the dream, the

dreamscape

> is no longer meaningful, and planet ego dissolves. It's difficult

to see how

> this particular game of perception and dissection with a

dualistic mind

> could continue.

>

> Howsoever, it seems likely we can invent a new game, the rules of

which

> couldn't possibly be seen from a dualistic

perspective........Okay, God's sitting

> here nudging me saying, 'Phil, that's all nonsense. Stop that

before you

> embarrass yourself.'

>

> Okay, then you write it!

>

> 'You're just digging yourself in deeper, ya know.'

>

> OOOOkaaaay, I'm done now.....Sheesh!

>

> Phil

>

 

 

LOL 'Phil',

 

funny funny things we say when there's noOne left to talk to

but ourselves. ROFLMarseO.

 

wink.

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In a message dated 9/2/2006 4:35:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

kailashana (AT) cox (DOT) net writes:

 

, ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 9/2/2006 4:25:38 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> kailashana writes:

>

> , ADHHUB@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Every now and then, a trip into conceptual hell is useful.

> > Okay, lemme see........An individualized perspective (a human)

> arises

> > spontaneously out of Consciousness as a kind of energy of

> unrealized experience.

> > IOW, you seemingly exist only because you represent an aspect

of

> the Totality of

> > Consciousness that was not currently being experientially

> realized. In this

> > respect, you're absolutely unique in all of creation, and the

> reflection

> > would not be complete without you.

> >

> > As such, your experience arises from within your own dynamics

of

> awareness,

> > desire, thought feeling, etc that 'caused' you to seemingly

exist

> in the first

> > place. You could say that your purpose is to experience and

> express that

> > aspect, but purpose is just a human conceptualization of

> a 'process' that occurs

> > spontaneously and without design.

> >

> > This experiential aspect seemingly dies when the experience is

> complete, in

> > much the same way that a nightly dream ends when the

> mental/emotional energy

> > that initiates the dream has been exhausted in it's expression.

> >

> > While the purpose of life is not to attain enlightenment,

desire

> for

> > completion is the force that gives life movement, and the

movement

> is necessary for

> > experience to occur. This is a movement 'occurring' within

> Consciousness.

> > Once Consciousness has withdrawn it's fixated 'deer in the

> headlights'

> > identification with the experiential vehicle (enlightenment),

we

> might ponder in what

> > way that vehicle continues to serve it's 'purpose' in it's role

as

> an

> > experiential aspect of Consciousness.

> >

> > We can certainly imagine the meaning of an enlightened master

who

> teaches a

> > conceptualized version of what is known beyond the limitations

of

> this

> > vehicle, and we can imagine this is why many remain in

physical

> form. But for many

> > others, we can see how the journey has truly come to an end and

> the

> > experiential vehicle simply serves no purpose and dissolves

from

> the experiential

> > dreamscape. The actual physical 'cause' of this death is

simply

> an experiential

> > expression of an exit that takes place because the energy

that

> formed the

> > perspective is no longer present. Cause/effect is part of the

> illusion, and nobody

> > ever dies from a physical cause.

> >

> > It is, of course, of no consequence at all to the individual.

> There is no

> > longer an individual. Hencely, there's nothing at all to fear.

> >

> > Phil

>

>

> Hi Phil,

>

> Nice to see 'you' 'here';-)

>

> Every endeavor found by human ingenuity inquiry and the will to

> survive has been given a name : philosophy, psychology, quantum

> physics, religion, etc., as a method to explain the inexplicable:

> how it is that it is. This miracle and mystery of presence,

called

> life.

>

> I think 'enlightenment' is just the first step in the evolution

of

> mankind. So far, every -ology has evolved the possible human.

Now

> as an enlightened - Be-Ing - wo/mankind is evolving as an

> evolutionary force in and of itself. Something we have not yet

> experienced. Or perhapas this is the end of all. And those of

us

> who still have speaking parts in this play, are leaving, one by

one.

>

> ;-)

>

> Anna

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hard to keep a good Phil-osopher down. :)~

>

>

>

> Funny thing about 'ology' evolution; it's actually an expression

of an

> evolution of awareness rather than any sort of cause.

> Yeah, I would say that, once humanity awakens from the dream, the

dreamscape

> is no longer meaningful, and planet ego dissolves. It's difficult

to see how

> this particular game of perception and dissection with a

dualistic mind

> could continue.

>

> Howsoever, it seems likely we can invent a new game, the rules of

which

> couldn't possibly be seen from a dualistic

perspective........Okay, God's sitting

> here nudging me saying, 'Phil, that's all nonsense. Stop that

before you

> embarrass yourself.'

>

> Okay, then you write it!

>

> 'You're just digging yourself in deeper, ya know.'

>

> OOOOkaaaay, I'm done now.....Sheesh!

>

> Phil

>

 

 

LOL 'Phil',

 

funny funny things we say when there's noOne left to talk to

but ourselves. ROFLMarseO.

 

wink.

 

 

 

 

 

Hehe. Trouble is the arguing just gets worse all the time!

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, "anabebe57" <kailashana

wrote:

>

> , "yosyx" <yosyflug@> wrote:

> >

> > , "David" <david.bozzi@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> > > they just dropped dead?

> > >

> >

> >

> > :) david dear, "enlightenment" is death of the apparent

> > ego identity, realization that the self is not personal,

> > and has nothing to do with form, name, birth and death,

> > etc... thus the sufis say: "die before you die". so it

> > may be said that whoever 'becomes enlightened' dies then

> > and there. as for the way it appears - it does not matter

> > in the slightest...

> >

> > yosy

> >

>

>

> ahhh, identities

>

> SHADOLAND

>

> Release me from my Poet's heart,

> my Darling,

>

> I cannot stay this near and be so

> far away

>

> I cannot hold you and let you go

> with the same hands,

>

> I am incarcerated in time and distance,

> and you and I,

>

> wet wilderness to open sky and

> frothy dialogue of moon to

> rising sea

>

> only the night air

> lingers now

>

> as our shadows gather

> beyond the stars,

> break waves.

>

>

>

> Anna

> 9/2/06

>

 

:) what dies is the attachment to identity...

 

 

you and i were never born.

i and you will never die.

beloved,

"you" and "i"

is just a dream

reflecting

in eternal

eye

 

 

@}->,->'--

enjoy!

yosy

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Vanakkam!

are we all internalising or externalising here? if its externalising, then it cant be Advaita. who Realizes and who dies? physical death has nothing to do with Realization.

Brahman is Real. the universe is not real. Brahman is the universe......

lets not intellectualise everything......perhaps the habits of the mind are hard to break...

Aum Namoh Bhagavathey, Brahma Jnani Sri Ramanayaa...

Anbudan

Philip Miller <pem218 > wrote:

Actually, there is a Sufi tale about a Persian poet who became so transported during a Zikr that the musicians were fearful of stopping their playing because they did not want to end his ecstatic trance. But after several days, their strength gave out, they stopped, and the poet promptly died.

I heard this story perhaps five or six years ago.

 

David <david.bozzi (AT) softhome (DOT) net> wrote:

or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

they just dropped dead?

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail.

 

 

 

PEACE through SURRENDER ...

 

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business.

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mango tree wrote:

> are we all internalising or externalising here? if its

> externalising, then it cant be Advaita.

 

 

Yeah and neither is eating, breathing and defecating.

(or your post)

 

 

 

> who Realizes and who dies? physical death has nothing to do with

> Realization.

 

 

I would never pretend to know that.

Afterall, what is the prize for pretending to know?

 

 

 

> Brahman is Real. the universe is not real. Brahman is the

> universe......

 

 

There are parrorts that can say this.

(BTW saying that it is duality)

 

 

> lets not intellectualise everything......perhaps the habits of the

> mind are hard to break...

 

 

The body even tougher. Good luck with holding your breath and your new

starvation diet.

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Welp, yes, there is a mental misalignment with the concepts in this

discussion. On the other hand, unless it is KNOWN that there is nobody to realize who

dies and that the universe is not real, I accept these concerns as genuine

expressions of an ego identity that prefers to face those concerns rather than

conceptualize them into oblivion. There's much to be said for being honest

with oneself as to difference between concepts embraced by the mind, and a

knowing that has nothing to do with mind or it's habits.

 

Phil

 

 

 

In a message dated 9/5/2006 6:01:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

oldmangotree writes:

 

Vanakkam!

 

are we all internalising or externalising here? if its externalising, then

it cant be Advaita. who Realizes and who dies? physical death has nothing to

do with Realization.

 

Brahman is Real. the universe is not real. Brahman is the universe......

 

lets not intellectualise everything......perhaps the habits of the mind are

hard to break...

 

Aum Namoh Bhagavathey, Brahma Jnani Sri Ramanayaa...

 

Anbudan

 

Philip Miller <pem218 > wrote:

 

 

 

Actually, there is a Sufi tale about a Persian poet who became so

transported during a Zikr that the musicians were fearful of stopping their playing

because they did not want to end his ecstatic trance. But after several days,

their strength gave out, they stopped, and the poet promptly died.

 

I heard this story perhaps five or six years ago.

 

David <david.bozzi (AT) david (DOT) bozdav> wrote:

 

 

or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

they just dropped dead?

 

 

 

 

 

 

__

 

Everyone is raving about the _all-new Mail._

(http://us.rd./evt=42297/*http://advision.webevents./mailbeta)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PEACE through SURRENDER ...

 

__

Get your own _web address for just $1.99/1st yr_

(http://us.rd./evt=43290/*http://smallbusiness./domains) . We'll help. _ Small

Business_ (http://us.rd./evt=41244/*http://smallbusiness./) .

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How's this for a bewildering story:

 

The ego death or the seeing through the first cause, the I Am

embodiment, is only the first stage of 'enlightenment'. The next

death is the death of the body as APPEARS to the living; however this

appearance, a parallel of the appearance of the 'thinking body'

before 'enlightenment' can only be witnessed by those who have

dropped both the false thinking ego-body, and the appearance body.

 

Ergo life beyond any/all appearances in any/all duality.

 

Proof? Can you prove enlightenment?

 

Questions for a Tuesday. Wink.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> Welp, yes, there is a mental misalignment with the concepts in

this

> discussion. On the other hand, unless it is KNOWN that there is

nobody to realize who

> dies and that the universe is not real, I accept these concerns

as genuine

> expressions of an ego identity that prefers to face those

concerns rather than

> conceptualize them into oblivion. There's much to be said for

being honest

> with oneself as to difference between concepts embraced by the

mind, and a

> knowing that has nothing to do with mind or it's habits.

>

> Phil

>

>

>

> In a message dated 9/5/2006 6:01:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> oldmangotree writes:

>

> Vanakkam!

>

> are we all internalising or externalising here? if its

externalising, then

> it cant be Advaita. who Realizes and who dies? physical death has

nothing to

> do with Realization.

>

> Brahman is Real. the universe is not real. Brahman is the

universe......

>

> lets not intellectualise everything......perhaps the habits of the

mind are

> hard to break...

>

> Aum Namoh Bhagavathey, Brahma Jnani Sri Ramanayaa...

>

> Anbudan

>

> Philip Miller <pem218 wrote:

>

>

>

> Actually, there is a Sufi tale about a Persian poet who became so

> transported during a Zikr that the musicians were fearful of

stopping their playing

> because they did not want to end his ecstatic trance. But after

several days,

> their strength gave out, they stopped, and the poet promptly died.

>

> I heard this story perhaps five or six years ago.

>

> David <david.bozzi wrote:

>

>

> or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> they just dropped dead?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __

>

> Everyone is raving about the _all-new Mail._

>

(http://us.rd./evt=42297/*http://advision.webevents..co

m/mailbeta)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PEACE through SURRENDER ...

>

> __

> Get your own _web address for just $1.99/1st yr_

>

(http://us.rd./evt=43290/*http://smallbusiness./dom

ains) . We'll help. _ Small

> Business_

(http://us.rd./evt=41244/*http://smallbusiness./) .

>

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Sorry, Anna. I dunno where you're comin from or where you're goin with it.

:)~

I guess the bewilderment worked!

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 9/5/2006 10:31:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

kailashana (AT) cox (DOT) net writes:

 

How's this for a bewildering story:

 

The ego death or the seeing through the first cause, the I Am

embodiment, is only the first stage of 'enlightenment'. The next

death is the death of the body as APPEARS to the living; however this

appearance, a parallel of the appearance of the 'thinking body'

before 'enlightenment' can only be witnessed by those who have

dropped both the false thinking ego-body, and the appearance body.

 

Ergo life beyond any/all appearances in any/all duality.

 

Proof? Can you prove enlightenment?

 

Questions for a Tuesday. Wink.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, ADHHUB wrote:

>

>

> Welp, yes, there is a mental misalignment with the concepts in

this

> discussion. On the other hand, unless it is KNOWN that there is

nobody to realize who

> dies and that the universe is not real, I accept these concerns

as genuine

> expressions of an ego identity that prefers to face those

concerns rather than

> conceptualize them into oblivion. There's much to be said for

being honest

> with oneself as to difference between concepts embraced by the

mind, and a

> knowing that has nothing to do with mind or it's habits.

>

> Phil

>

>

>

> In a message dated 9/5/2006 6:01:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> oldmangotree writes:

>

> Vanakkam!

>

> are we all internalising or externalising here? if its

externalising, then

> it cant be Advaita. who Realizes and who dies? physical death has

nothing to

> do with Realization.

>

> Brahman is Real. the universe is not real. Brahman is the

universe......

>

> lets not intellectualise everything......perhaps the habits of the

mind are

> hard to break...

>

> Aum Namoh Bhagavathey, Brahma Jnani Sri Ramanayaa...

>

> Anbudan

>

> Philip Miller <pem218 wrote:

>

>

>

> Actually, there is a Sufi tale about a Persian poet who became so

> transported during a Zikr that the musicians were fearful of

stopping their playing

> because they did not want to end his ecstatic trance. But after

several days,

> their strength gave out, they stopped, and the poet promptly died.

>

> I heard this story perhaps five or six years ago.

>

> David <david.bozzi wrote:

>

>

> or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

> they just dropped dead?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __

>

> Everyone is raving about the _all-new Mail._

>

(http://us.rd./evt=42297/*http://advision.webevents..co

m/mailbeta)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PEACE through SURRENDER ...

>

> __

> Get your own _web address for just $1.99/1st yr_

>

(http://us.rd./evt=43290/*http://smallbusiness./dom

ains) . We'll help. _ Small

> Business_

(http://us.rd./evt=41244/*http://smallbusiness./) .

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Magazine and Website is at

 

 

 

community blog is at

 

http://.net/blog/

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

 

Sri Ramana

 

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

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Dear friend,

 

 

 

_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of mango tree

Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:59 AM

 

Re: Does anybody know anyone

 

 

 

Vanakkam!

 

 

 

are we all internalising or externalising here? if its externalising, then

it cant be Advaita. who Realizes and who dies? physical death has nothing to

do with Realization.

 

 

 

I'm not sure that there is an "internal" or an "external".

 

 

 

 

 

Brahman is Real. the universe is not real. Brahman is the universe......

 

 

 

let's not intellectualise everything......perhaps the habits of the mind are

hard to break...

 

 

 

Correctomundo.... Let's don't intellectualize everything. But my friend,

the problem is that how are we to share with one another on an online group

without using words? Anything that is expressed here, including your wise

words, can be deemed to be an intellectualization. Shall we not

communicate? Would that make you happy?

 

 

 

 

 

Aum Namoh Bhagavathey, Brahma Jnani Sri Ramanayaa...

 

 

 

Anbudan

 

 

 

Peace and love,

 

 

 

michael

 

 

 

Philip Miller <pem218 > wrote:

 

Actually, there is a Sufi tale about a Persian poet who became so

transported during a Zikr that the musicians were fearful of stopping their

playing because they did not want to end his ecstatic trance. But after

several days, their strength gave out, they stopped, and the poet promptly

died.

 

 

 

I heard this story perhaps five or six years ago.

 

David <david.bozzi (AT) softhome (DOT) net> wrote:

 

or heard of anyone who became so enlightened

they just dropped dead?

 

 

 

 

_____

 

 

 

Everyone is raving about the all-new

<http://us.rd./evt=42297/*http:/advision.webevents./mailbe

ta> Mail.

 

 

 

 

PEACE through SURRENDER ...

 

 

_____

 

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.

<http://us.rd./evt=41244/*http:/smallbusiness./> Small

Business.

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