The Vedas as apourushEyam: An idea the Western mind struggles to grasp

[Guest guest]

Dear friends & members,

 

Sometimes when I travel abroad (mostly as part of my

job) to parts of the world in Europe or the Far-East

cities, I meet with people in those countries who the

moment they come to learn I hail from India, strike up

a conversation about Indian philosophy, religion, and

spiritualism....

 

It all invariably starts with their noticing my

vegetarianism at the dinner table. They curiously ask

me how I manage to survive on a strict diet of milk,

bread, butter, jam, corn-flakes and green salads and

soups and then invariably the conversation gradually

veers around to talk of Indian mysticism, the

'kumbh-mela', varieties of Indian gods and

cow-worship....

 

****************

 

During such conversations, I have always been amazed

how little is the knowledge the average western mind

possesses about the fact-sheet of India's great

religion and philosophy. In comparison, the average

Indian mind's knowledge of Christianity or Buddhism, I

would venture to say, is almost encyclopaedic.

 

For example, very few commoners in the western world

know anything about the source of all religious

scipture in India -- the Veda. A few of them have

heard of the 'Bhagavath-gita'. The Gita has crept a

little into the common awareness of the west mainly

because it has been popularized somewhat over the

years by serious literary personalities in Europe and

America such as Aldous Huxley, Herman Hesse,

Schopenhauer, Ralph Waldo Emerson and others. But

little do commonfolk in the west know that the Gita

owes its original inspiration to yet another evenmore

ancient source viz. the Upanishads, which in

themselves are again only a sub-text of a vast body of

scriptures known as the Vedas.

 

***************

 

When I start explaining to my curious western friends

about the fundamental features of the Vedas, the first

thing to utterly amaze them is the fact that the Vedas

have no human authorship; that there is no one person

who actually wrote it down; that they have all been

bequeathed, from one generation to another, across

millions of years in India through the oral tradition

of learning called "guru-sishyA parampara"

(master-disciple school of oral learning).

 

When I further explain to them that we Hindus regard

the Vedas as "apowrushEyam" -- i.e. it does not owe

its existence to any human authorship; that it stands

alone as a self-existent, self-evident and eternal

body of Truth; that it was only been revealed to

ancient seers ("rshis") who merely intuited it all

through spiritual insight gained by years of 'tapas'

(penance and self-sacrifice).... When all this is

explained to them, the western friends cannot help

asking me incredulously, "But how can what you say be

true!"

 

On my part, I try not to be unduly surprised or

offended by the incredulity of the average western

mind vis-a-vis the very idea of "apowrushEyam". After

all, Christians and Muslims, we know belong to the

religious tradition of "Peoples of the Book" (i.e. the

Bible and Koran) which are sacred scriptural books

which owe their authorship and inspiration to

individuals -- such as the Prophets Mohammed, Jesus,

Moses and others. To the average western mind so

accustomed to its principal Book of scripture, the

Bible, being attributed to authorship by the Apostles

of Jesus, it can be indeed very, very difficult to

comprehend the very idea of "apowrushEyam".

************

 

To convince yet such incredulous westerners, very

often, I resort to a simple analogy in order to drive

home to them the validity of the idea the Vedas are

"apowrUshEyam". The analogy is borrowed form the

western world -- the world of physics and classical

music -- and then constructed in simple terms, in the

language and idiom of the western world again, so as

to help them relate really well to the idea, to grasp

its essentials and comprehend it thoroughly.

 

Here is the analogy which I share with you all too in

the hope that you may all wish to ponder upon it and,

if found convincing, may well want to use it yourself

in explaining the concept of "apowrushEyam" to your

own friends and acquaintainces (western and otherwise)

who may appear to you as difficult "doubting

Thomases".

 

****************

 

Einstein once said that while Beethoven only created

or crafted his music, Mozart's own was so pure that it

seemed to have been ever present in the universe,

waiting to be discovered by the master.

 

Einstein believed much the same of Physics too -- i.e.

beyond observations and theory, lay the music of the

spheres which, he wrote, revealed a "pre-established

harmony" exhibiting stunning symmetries. The laws of

nature such as those of Relativity Theory, were

waiting to be plucked out of the cosmos by someone

with a sympathetic ear. Thus it was far less laborious

calculation than the creative or intuitive processes

of "pure thought" to which Einstein attributed his

theories.

 

Scientists often describe the general relativity

theory as the most beautiful theory ever formulated.

Einstein himself always emphasized the importance of

recognizing the theory's beauty. "Hardly anyone who

has truly understood it will be able to escape the

charm of this theory".

 

The theory is essentially one man's view of how the

universe ought to be. And amazingly, the universe did

turn out to be pretty much as Einstein imagined.

 

***************

 

The great Einstein regarded his General Relativity

Theory not as something born out of personal

intellectual effort or inspiration but as Truth which

he happened to "discover" as "pure", "pre-established

harmony".

 

Einstein held the music of Mozart in the same light.

Mozart's music too was not so much music "composed" as

music "waiting to be plucked out of the cosmos by

someone with a sympathetic ear".

 

In much the same way above as Einstein regarded his

discoveries in Physics, or he appreciated the music of

Mozart, I explained to my western friends, the Vedas

too -- the principal source and inspiration of all

religious thought and scripture in Indi -- they too

are regarded by the Hindus as "apowrushEyam": in other

words, the Vedas are "so pure that they seemed to have

been ever present in the universe", "waiting (as it

were) to be discovered by the masters" known once in

ancient India as "rshis". The Vedas too are thus "pure

thought"; they are "pre-established harmony" revealing

the great laws and the "stunning symmetries" of the

Cosmos and all Existence.

 

And like Einstein's theory, I further go on to explain

to my friends, the Vedas too are "essentially one

man's view -- i.e. the "rshi's" view -- of how the

universe ought to be. And amazingly, the universe did

turn out to be, in several ways, pretty much as the

Vedas and the "rshi-s" imagined"!

 

*************

 

When I had taken to pains to explain all of the above

to my western friends, it sometimes occured to me that

not withstanding the simple but persuasive relevance

of the analogy, they still went away a little confused

and unconvinced by the thought that anything in this

world could be "apowrushEyam" --- un-authored,

self-existent, self-evident and eternal.

 

Let us for a moment leave westerners aside; their

incomprehension and incredulity can be quite forgiven.

What about Hindus themselves, I ask? How many of you

are totally convinced and yet not-so- convinced about

the idea?

 

Regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

[Guest guest]

The exlanation of apourusheyam is quite correct .The everpresence of music in the air is true and so is the manthras and thathvaswhich are vbrating ready to be picked up by the intuitive souls.That is why the rshis are calle manthra dhrashtas and not karthas. Even in christianity (and perhaps in islam ) the 'word ' seems to be the first existent reality and even the apostles are said to have had the divine vvision and gave out the commandments and other works of the Bible and they too we not composers of their religious relics This reminds me what the sangitha kalanidhi elect of this year said once in his speech that all the music is existing in the atmostphere only to be picked up by those who have devotion and faith. That is how our great masters like the trinity and others were able to give divine music.Any one could do it provided he has sincerity and devotion to the art.

sudarshan madabushi <mksudarshan2002 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:

Dear friends & members,

 

Sometimes when I travel abroad (mostly as part of my

job) to parts of the world in Europe or the Far-East

cities, I meet with people in those countries who the

moment they come to learn I hail from India, strike up

a conversation about Indian philosophy, religion, and

spiritualism....

 

It all invariably starts with their noticing my

vegetarianism at the dinner table. They curiously ask

me how I manage to survive on a strict diet of milk,

bread, butter, jam, corn-flakes and green salads and

soups and then invariably the conversation gradually

veers around to talk of Indian mysticism, the

'kumbh-mela', varieties of Indian gods and

cow-worship....

 

****************

 

During such conversations, I have always been amazed

how little is the knowledge the average western mind

possesses about the fact-sheet of India's great

religion and philosophy. In comparison, the average

Indian mind's knowledge of Christianity or Buddhism, I

would venture to say, is almost encyclopaedic.

 

For example, very few commoners in the western world

know anything about the source of all religious

scipture in India -- the Veda. A few of them have

heard of the 'Bhagavath-gita'. The Gita has crept a

little into the common awareness of the west mainly

because it has been popularized somewhat over the

years by serious literary personalities in Europe and

America such as Aldous Huxley, Herman Hesse,

Schopenhauer, Ralph Waldo Emerson and others. But

little do commonfolk in the west know that the Gita

owes its original inspiration to yet another evenmore

ancient source viz. the Upanishads, which in

themselves are again only a sub-text of a vast body of

scriptures known as the Vedas.

 

***************

 

When I start explaining to my curious western friends

about the fundamental features of the Vedas, the first

thing to utterly amaze them is the fact that the Vedas

have no human authorship; that there is no one person

who actually wrote it down; that they have all been

bequeathed, from one generation to another, across

millions of years in India through the oral tradition

of learning called "guru-sishyA parampara"

(master-disciple school of oral learning).

 

When I further explain to them that we Hindus regard

the Vedas as "apowrushEyam" -- i.e. it does not owe

its existence to any human authorship; that it stands

alone as a self-existent, self-evident and eternal

body of Truth; that it was only been revealed to

ancient seers ("rshis") who merely intuited it all

through spiritual insight gained by years of 'tapas'

(penance and self-sacrifice).... When all this is

explained to them, the western friends cannot help

asking me incredulously, "But how can what you say be

true!"

 

On my part, I try not to be unduly surprised or

offended by the incredulity of the average western

mind vis-a-vis the very idea of "apowrushEyam". After

all, Christians and Muslims, we know belong to the

religious tradition of "Peoples of the Book" (i.e. the

Bible and Koran) which are sacred scriptural books

which owe their authorship and inspiration to

individuals -- such as the Prophets Mohammed, Jesus,

Moses and others. To the average western mind so

accustomed to its principal Book of scripture, the

Bible, being attributed to authorship by the Apostles

of Jesus, it can be indeed very, very difficult to

comprehend the very idea of "apowrushEyam".

 

************

 

To convince yet such incredulous westerners, very

often, I resort to a simple analogy in order to drive

home to them the validity of the idea the Vedas are

"apowrUshEyam". The analogy is borrowed form the

western world -- the world of physics and classical

music -- and then constructed in simple terms, in the

language and idiom of the western world again, so as

to help them relate really well to the idea, to grasp

its essentials and comprehend it thoroughly.

 

Here is the analogy which I share with you all too in

the hope that you may all wish to ponder upon it and,

if found convincing, may well want to use it yourself

in explaining the concept of "apowrushEyam" to your

own friends and acquaintainces (western and otherwise)

who may appear to you as difficult "doubting

Thomases".

 

****************

 

Einstein once said that while Beethoven only created

or crafted his music, Mozart's own was so pure that it

seemed to have been ever present in the universe,

waiting to be discovered by the master.

 

Einstein believed much the same of Physics too -- i.e.

beyond observations and theory, lay the music of the

spheres which, he wrote, revealed a "pre-established

harmony" exhibiting stunning symmetries. The laws of

nature such as those of Relativity Theory, were

waiting to be plucked out of the cosmos by someone

with a sympathetic ear. Thus it was far less laborious

calculation than the creative or intuitive processes

of "pure thought" to which Einstein attributed his

theories.

 

Scientists often describe the general relativity

theory as the most beautiful theory ever formulated.

Einstein himself always emphasized the importance of

recognizing the theory's beauty. "Hardly anyone who

has truly understood it will be able to escape the

charm of this theory".

 

The theory is essentially one man's view of how the

universe ought to be. And amazingly, the universe did

turn out to be pretty much as Einstein imagined.

 

***************

 

The great Einstein regarded his General Relativity

Theory not as something born out of personal

intellectual effort or inspiration but as Truth which

he happened to "discover" as "pure", "pre-established

harmony".

 

Einstein held the music of Mozart in the same light.

Mozart's music too was not so much music "composed" as

music "waiting to be plucked out of the cosmos by

someone with a sympathetic ear".

 

In much the same way above as Einstein regarded his

discoveries in Physics, or he appreciated the music of

Mozart, I explained to my western friends, the Vedas

too -- the principal source and inspiration of all

religious thought and scripture in Indi -- they too

are regarded by the Hindus as "apowrushEyam": in other

words, the Vedas are "so pure that they seemed to have

been ever present in the universe", "waiting (as it

were) to be discovered by the masters" known once in

ancient India as "rshis". The Vedas too are thus "pure

thought"; they are "pre-established harmony" revealing

the great laws and the "stunning symmetries" of the

Cosmos and all Existence.

 

And like Einstein's theory, I further go on to explain

to my friends, the Vedas too are "essentially one

man's view -- i.e. the "rshi's" view -- of how the

universe ought to be. And amazingly, the universe did

turn out to be, in several ways, pretty much as the

Vedas and the "rshi-s" imagined"!

 

*************

 

When I had taken to pains to explain all of the above

to my western friends, it sometimes occured to me that

not withstanding the simple but persuasive relevance

of the analogy, they still went away a little confused

and unconvinced by the thought that anything in this

world could be "apowrushEyam" --- un-authored,

self-existent, self-evident and eternal.

 

Let us for a moment leave westerners aside; their

incomprehension and incredulity can be quite forgiven.

What about Hindus themselves, I ask? How many of you

are totally convinced and yet not-so- convinced about

the idea?

 

Regards,

dAsan,

Sudarshan

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

 

 

 

 

 

May god bless you,

Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

according to the puranas there are lakhs of species of humans and they come from manu. the rishis who revealed the vedas come from the mid of brahma. they are not normal humans or ones who come from manu. on the other hand other traditions are proposed by normal humans - some times a lot below normal .

vedas are apoureshya because they dont have mundane authorship. the rishis reveal the vedas but they are not the creators. we do see that without training, great saints are able to reveal vedic knowledge proving that it is internal and eternal.