Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Dear All, There is one aspect that I have not been able to comprehend, even though Bhagavan has spoken about it. Bhagavan says that in deep sleep, the Mind goes back to its Source. In which case, why do dreams occur? I am unable to comprehend. And would be grateful if someone can explain this. Yours in Bhagavan, Nandu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya ! Nandu, Only in deep sleep the mind goes to its source. Your doubt comes because you have just taken as sleep in general. Underline the word of Bhagavan "in deep sleep".Dream state is another state as conscious state, when the mind takes sukshama sareer - as we have this sthula sareera in waking state. So in dream state, again the mind comes out of its source, as in waking state. For a Gnani, sleep is deep sleep alone where the mind, ego and body are absent. Even in waking and dreaming state these are absent in a Gnani. That's why Bhagavan would advise us not to indulge in sleep especially during early morning (Ushat Kaalam or Brahma Muhartham). "At the first inclination one should get up from bed so as to avoid dreams" Bhagavan says. Bhagavan also advices us not to go to bed without falling into sleep. He would say "Thoongi padungo, paduthu thoongathingo (i.e.) let sleep come then go to bed - don't go to bed and crave for sleep". Ramanaarpanam. Ganesh Ramachandran . aqua_minerale42 <aqua_minerale42 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear All, There is one aspect that I have not been able to comprehend, even though Bhagavan has spoken about it. Bhagavan says that in deep sleep, the Mind goes back to its Source. In which case, why do dreams occur? I am unable to comprehend. And would be grateful if someone can explain this. Yours in Bhagavan, Nandu Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Ganesh, Many thanks! The last para clarifies everything beyond doubt! You toss and turn in bed, and then get dreams. And Bhagavan's saying puts the issue beyond doubt. Which means, in normal sleep, the mind has not merged in its source, right? This clarifies a lot of things. Many thanks again. Yours in Bhagavan Nandu RamanaMaharshi, ramachandran ganesh <ramanarg wrote: > > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya ! > > Nandu, > > Only in deep sleep the mind goes to its source. Your doubt comes because you have just taken as sleep in general. Underline the word of Bhagavan "in deep sleep".Dream state is another state as conscious state, when the mind takes sukshama sareer - as we have this sthula sareera in waking state. So in dream state, again the mind comes out of its source, as in waking state. For a Gnani, sleep is deep sleep alone where the mind, ego and body are absent. Even in waking and dreaming state these are absent in a Gnani. > > That's why Bhagavan would advise us not to indulge in sleep especially during early morning (Ushat Kaalam or Brahma Muhartham). "At the first inclination one should get up from bed so as to avoid dreams" Bhagavan says. Bhagavan also advices us not to go to bed without falling into sleep. He would say "Thoongi padungo, paduthu thoongathingo (i.e.) let sleep come then go to bed - don't go to bed and crave for sleep". > > Ramanaarpanam. > > Ganesh Ramachandran > . > > aqua_minerale42 <aqua_minerale42 wrote: > Dear All, > > There is one aspect that I have not been able to comprehend, even > though Bhagavan has spoken about it. > > Bhagavan says that in deep sleep, the Mind goes back to its Source. > > In which case, why do dreams occur? > > I am unable to comprehend. And would be grateful if someone can > explain this. > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > Nandu > > > > > > > > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Dear Nandu and friends, Just to add a few more thoughts to the helpful ones already given... What we call "normal sleep" usually just means loss of body consciousness. Vedanta distinguishes between the "waking state", "dream state" and "deep sleep" and the 'transcendental state' (often referred to as Turiya). On the very first page of "Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi" a devotee asks a question on this very topic, and Sri Ramana replies: M.: Whatever state one is in, the perceptions partake of that state. The explanation is that in the waking state (jagrat) the gross body perceives gross names and forms; in swapna (the dream state) the mental body perceives the mental creations in their manifold forms and names; in the sushupti (deep dreamless sleep), the identification with the body being lost, there are no perceptions; similarly in the Transcendental state identity with Brahman places the man in harmony with everything, and there is nothing apart from his Self. (Talk 2) The explanations given are that the mind and senses are active in the waking and dream states, but in the 'deep dreamless sleep' state (sushupti) the senses and mind are inactive, and the mind still latent. Thus in sushupti the world is not seen and does not exist, the mind is not active so there is no 'other to be known' and hence there is no suffering, only bliss - albeit 'ignorant bliss'. Thus, what Sri Ramana appears to want to impress on us over and over again in 'Talks' is that when the ego is not, the world is not. When the ego rises the world also rises with it. "The two, the universe and the mind arise and set as one; yet this inert universe is lighted up by the mind alone; know that that sole, unborn, infinite Being whose nature is Pure Consciousness, and in which the two (the universe and the mind) arise and set, but which Itself neither rises nor sets, is alone Real." (Ulladhu Narpadhu, v 7) Importantly, Sri Ramana also reminds us: "What remains all through deep sleep and waking is the same. But in waking there is unhappiness and the effort to remove it. Asked who wakes up from sleep you say 'I'. Now you are told to hold fast to this 'I'. If it is done the eternal Being will reveal Itself." (Talk 131) "You are always in the Heart. You are never away from it in order that you should reach it. Consider how you are in deep sleep and in the waking state. These states are also not yours. They are of the ego. The consciousness remains the same and undifferentiated all through." (Talk 101) Best wishes, Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Many thanks, Peter, Ganesh's reply sorted out one part of the doubt. Your post, especially the extract from 'Talk 2' clearly teaches the difference between the states, and more importantly, how we perceive the. Illumination! Illumination! Nanri, Peter! Yours in Bhagavan, Nandu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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