2nd Generation ISKCON Gurus? What the future holds?

[Guest guest]

What is to become of ISKCON when all the "first generation" gurus, the direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada have passed on and the entire GBC and guru system is composed of "second generation" disciples of the successor gurus in ISKCON?

Is ISKCON going to maintain the strength, vitality and legitimacy that is needed to make tangible progress in the 21st Century?

 

What will be the reception that these second generation gurus will get from the "third generation" of devotees who come to find that the books of Srila Prabhupada constitute the principle siksha and law for ISKCON?

[Guest guest]

 

What is to become of ISKCON when all the "first generation" gurus, the direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada have passed on and the entire GBC and guru system is composed of "second generation" disciples of the successor gurus in ISKCON?

Is ISKCON going to maintain the strength, vitality and legitimacy that is needed to make tangible progress in the 21st Century?

 

What will be the reception that these second generation gurus will get from the "third generation" of devotees who come to find that the books of Srila Prabhupada constitute the principle siksha and law for ISKCON?

 

HH Kadamba Kanana Swami seems to have plenty of enthusiastic disciples who appreciate their guru, their param-guru HH Jayadvaita Swami, and also the siksha of HDG Srila Prabhupada.

 

HH Mahavishnu Goswami seems to have plenty of enthusiastic disciples who appreciate their guru, their param-guru HH Sivarama Swami, and also the siksha of HDG Srila Prabhupada.

 

Where is the problem?

[gHari]

Let us all do our best to leave the world a strong ISKCON. That is the least we can do in appreciation for the association of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

As we get older, let us all forget about our name and standing in the community of hellions, and let the reality of Sri Krsna sankirtana flow from our hearts constantly. We can do it.

 

Perhaps the age 70 would be appropriate. Let us all board our own Jaladuta and follow our feet to perfection in every town and village.

[Guest guest]

 

What is to become of ISKCON when all the "first generation" gurus, the direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada have passed on and the entire GBC and guru system is composed of "second generation" disciples of the successor gurus in ISKCON?

Is ISKCON going to maintain the strength, vitality and legitimacy that is needed to make tangible progress in the 21st Century?

 

What will be the reception that these second generation gurus will get from the "third generation" of devotees who come to find that the books of Srila Prabhupada constitute the principle siksha and law for ISKCON?

 

1. The grandfather is more merciful to the Grand disciples!!!!!

 

2. Srila Prabhupada's mercy is not limited to those he has initiated.

 

3. Srila Prabhupada reciprocates with the sincere prayers of his dedicated followers even though he is not physically present.

 

4. At our Iskcon temple there are no resident Prabhupada disciples. We, granddisciples manage the temple, increase BTG subscriptions, hold daily lectures and do book distribution, all the Deity worship and food for life. We have new members joining the congregation all the time. All festivals are funded, and all classes and kirtans are led by granddisciples. We have one Prabhupada disciple living in this area in his huge house. He is a bussinessman and ex temple president - was Tp years ago, does no active service now and seldom attends temple programs. Visiting sannyasis come frequently , preach and continue their travels. Seminars are also given by our humble TP who is a amazing lecturer and kirtan leader. He holds a regular job and preaches daily after work in different areas. All feasts are also cooked funded and served by granddisciples. Although out of duty we may give some special respect to the Srila Prabhupada disciple since he is the god brother of of Gurus, I can say that most have respect for the Grand disciple TP due to his sincere following of Srila Prabhupadas desire.

 

5. Since all Srila Prabhupada disciples are not going to die at the same time and the introduction of new second generation sannyasis is gradual ther is no reason to fear.

 

6. It is Srila Prabhupadas glorious position that allows his movement to grow even when he has physically left us.

[Guest guest]

 

What is to become of ISKCON when all the "first generation" gurus, the direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada have passed on and the entire GBC and guru system is composed of "second generation" disciples of the successor gurus in ISKCON?

Is ISKCON going to maintain the strength, vitality and legitimacy that is needed to make tangible progress in the 21st Century?

 

What will be the reception that these second generation gurus will get from the "third generation" of devotees who come to find that the books of Srila Prabhupada constitute the principle siksha and law for ISKCON?

 

Only a pure devotee can be a guru. But GBC is rubber stamping gurus now. If you can get GBC rubber stamp then you will also become a guru. Just by getting rubber stamped by a group of conditioned souls how can one become a pure devotee guru? Those gurus also will continue to fall one by one and ISKCON has a bleak future if this type of guru system continues. People will lose value for such gurus and they wont take anything we tell seriously. At the end it will all remain farce.

 

There are great devotees, great preachers, great fund-collectors, great speakers, great temple presidents, great kirtan leaders, great book distributors, great cooks, great organisers and great managers. But with these great qualities if they are stamped as PURE devotees to deliver others then its a mistake. A pure devotee needs no authorization or certification to from others to make him a guru. Such a pure devotee is a liberated soul and his actions can't be judged by material senses and reasoning. Today ISKCON GBC wants their followers in all the temples world-wide to believe that GBC-authorised gurus are pure devotees. So what can be done? And everytime time a GBC-authorised guru falls, there is more cover-up. Hyprocrisy will not last longer. It will crumble like a pack of cards sooner. Get ready to face it folks.

[Guest guest]

I wonder if ISKCON did not have the big temples ashrams and properties how many devotees would become disciples of the ISKCON gurus?

 

Are people joining because of the temples and ashrams or because they really have so much faith in their ISKCON guru?

 

Are there any successful preachers who do not need big temples and ashrams to draw in followers?

[Guest guest]

 

Are there any successful preachers who do not need big temples and ashrams to draw in followers?

 

Yes, his name is Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who attracts the whole world to his lotus feet by the potency of his vani via his books and recorded lectures:

 

"A pure devotee always engages in the service of the Lord, taking shelter

of His lotus feet, and therefore he has a direct connection with the saffron

mercy-particles that are strewn over the lotus feet of the Lord. Although

when a pure devotee speaks the articulation of his voice may resemble

the sound of this material sky, the voice is spiritually very powerful

because it touches the particles of saffron dust on the lotus feet of the

Lord. As soon as a sleeping living entity hears the powerful voice

emanating from the mouth of a pure devotee, he immediately remembers

his eternal relationship with the Lord, although up until that moment he

had forgotten everything."

[Guest guest]

 

HH Kadamba Kanana Swami seems to have plenty of enthusiastic disciples who appreciate their guru, their param-guru HH Jayadvaita Swami, and also the siksha of HDG Srila Prabhupada.

 

HH Mahavishnu Goswami seems to have plenty of enthusiastic disciples who appreciate their guru, their param-guru HH Sivarama Swami, and also the siksha of HDG Srila Prabhupada.

 

Where is the problem?

 

Interesting. The Law of ISKCON states that no one can become an initiating guru in the living presence of his guru. Yet here we see two examples of the violation of this "law".

 

BTP 12 has an interesting article called "Continuing or ending the parampara" -and shows how 4 ISKCON gurus died without appointing a successor. So the parampara branch stopped with them. Funny, that's what they accuse the ritviks of - stopping the parampara with Srila Prabhupada!

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada wasn't very much in favor of 'appointing' successors.

 

 

Interesting. The Law of ISKCON states that no one can become an initiating guru in the living presence of his guru. Yet here we see two examples of the violation of this "law".

 

BTP 12 has an interesting article called "Continuing or ending the parampara" -and shows how 4 ISKCON gurus died without appointing a successor. So the parampara branch stopped with them. Funny, that's what they accuse the ritviks of - stopping the parampara with Srila Prabhupada!

[Guest guest]

 

"A pure devotee always engages in the service of the Lord, taking shelter of His lotus feet, and therefore he has a direct connection with the saffron mercy-particles that are strewn over the lotus feet of the Lord. Although when a pure devotee speaks the articulation of his voice may resemble the sound of this material sky, the voice is spiritually very powerful because it touches the particles of saffron dust on the lotus feet of the

Lord. As soon as a sleeping living entity hears the powerful voice emanating from the mouth of a pure devotee, he immediately remembers his eternal relationship with the Lord, although up until that moment he had forgotten everything."

 

Could you please give me reference for this quote, Please?? Very Interesting.

[Guest guest]

 

Only a pure devotee can be a guru. But GBC is rubber stamping gurus now. If you can get GBC rubber stamp then you will also become a guru. Just by getting rubber stamped by a group of conditioned souls how can one become a pure devotee guru? Those gurus also will continue to fall one by one and ISKCON has a bleak future if this type of guru system continues. People will lose value for such gurus and they wont take anything we tell seriously. At the end it will all remain farce.

 

There are great devotees, great preachers, great fund-collectors, great speakers, great temple presidents, great kirtan leaders, great book distributors, great cooks, great organisers and great managers. But with these great qualities if they are stamped as PURE devotees to deliver others then its a mistake. A pure devotee needs no authorization or certification to from others to make him a guru. Such a pure devotee is a liberated soul and his actions can't be judged by material senses and reasoning. Today ISKCON GBC wants their followers in all the temples world-wide to believe that GBC-authorised gurus are pure devotees. So what can be done? And everytime time a GBC-authorised guru falls, there is more cover-up. Hyprocrisy will not last longer. It will crumble like a pack of cards sooner. Get ready to face it folks.

 

kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya

yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya

"Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi or a sudra-regardless of what he is-he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krsna." (Cc. Madhya 8.128) Anyone completely aware of the science of Krsna, regardless of his status in life, is a guru.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 8.19.2

[Guest guest]

 

kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya

yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya

"Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi or a sudra-regardless of what he is-he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krsna." (Cc. Madhya 8.128) Anyone completely aware of the science of Krsna, regardless of his status in life, is a guru.>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 8.19.2

 

Just by getting rubber stamped by the GBC does one get to know the science of Krishna compeltely ? Unfortunately history does not say so. Many 'GBC approved' gurus have given up and gone and that shows that they were thinking for themselves and for others all these years that they are pure devotees who are capable of delivering others. I dont say that none are pure. But history has shown that the system is wrong.

[Guest guest]

 

kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya

yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei 'guru' haya

"Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi or a sudra-regardless of what he is-he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krsna." (Cc. Madhya 8.128) Anyone completely aware of the science of Krsna, regardless of his status in life, is a guru.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 8.19.2

 

Knowing Krishna-tattva means to know Krishna in "truth" (tattva).

Otherwise, every new bhakta that believes in Krishna can also become guru.

 

No, it means that those who know Krishna in truth, through realization, can become guru.

 

Krishna-tattva-vetta is not as simple and basic as some would like to make it.

 

To know Krishna in "truth" is to become self-realized siddha.

It's much more than theoretical understanding of Krishna.

 

Otherwise, anybody and everybody who claims to be a devotee can become guru.

 

It's not that simple.

 

That verse is not a license for every devotee in the world to become diksha-guru.