We were Brahma at one time?

[Guest guest]

I have read in some Vaishnava writings, that when a jiva falls into the material universe, he first takes birth in the body of Brahma. Does this mean we were all Creators of a universe in our first incarnation? I am confused how we fell from such a high position from being the head manager of a material universe for 311.4 trillion years.

[Guest guest]

 

I have read in some Vaishnava writings, that when a jiva falls into the material universe, he first takes birth in the body of Brahma. Does this mean we were all Creators of a universe in our first incarnation? I am confused how we fell from such a high position from being the head manager of a material universe for 311.4 trillion years.

 

Perhaps it's a wave-like nature. Descension followed by ascension.

 

We may have been creators of universes in the beginning, and as we create, we grow envious of our own creations and want to interact with our own creations. So we get our wish, and we descend further down, forgetting as we go down our true nature. But after a while we grow tired of our interactions with these mundane worlds, and we seek to regain our true place with God and so we seek to ascend again.

[Guest guest]

this was on www dot dandavats dot com/?p=772

 

 

Question: When one leaves the spiritual world, is it always the case that the spirit soul takes the position of Brahma?

 

Answer: Yes, Srila Prabhupada did say that when a soul falls down from the spiritual sky, he first takes the position of Brahma.

[Guest guest]

but i had never heard that before. does anyone know of such a reference?

[theist]

B.R. Sridhar Maharaja said that *I believe. Never heard where Srila Prabhupada said it.

 

Hard **idea for me to accept, I admit.

 

 

*made I believe bold

**edited the word one to idea

[Guest guest]

 

B.R. Sridhar Maharaja said that I believe. Never heard where Srila Prabhupada said it.

 

Hard one for me to accept, I admit.

 

How is that so hard to believe?

 

I mean, if you even believe in Krsna, that we're all his jivas, and we've fallen from Vaikuntha, how is the idea that our first stop on the descension to this planet is as a controller or creator of a universe so hard to believe?

 

I think it makes sense that Earth is not the only testing ground for us, and that there is a progression or regression as it were of how much power or influence a jiva may wield under Krsna.

[Guest guest]

This is truly amazing information. Everyone of us was a Manager of an entire Universe for 311,040,000,000 trillion years, living the good life in the Brahmaloka, and then somehow we foolishly decided go down from there?

 

So does this mean our Brahma is going to fall down too? He knows all the Vedas, and everything in the Universe, and he will still choose to fall down? or when we are Brahma, do we have the choice to fall or go back up to Godhead?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

I mean, if you even believe in Krsna, that we're all his jivas, and we've fallen from Vaikuntha...

 

Just to clarify, Sridhar Maharaja doesn't accept that part of the statement about jivas falling from Vaikuntha. According to most Gaudiya Acharya's we fell from tatastha shakti, and Sridhar Maharaja repeated this teaching.

[Guest guest]

It has also been said that even the demigods desire to take birth in these lower planetary systems where the mercy of The holy name if available through various acharayas, in Kali Yuga Mahaprabhu as Patita Pavan reaches down to the lowest, that's us fellas and freely distributes Nam sankirtan not just personally but the ripples of that yagna continue to flow through his followers.

The potency is so intense that the reverberations from that eternal kirtan will keep breaking on our shores for many moons to come, just like the waves of the sea. It rises and falls.

Whereas the many Lord Brahmas we are told can be totally seperated from those simple cowherd pastimes due to such heavenly splender, prestige, and admin. responsibilities, and even fall into total forgetfulness testing the Lords validity.

 

It helps to keep ones perspective in our understanding of rasa or the taste derived from hell, midheaven, heaven-Satya Loka, Vaikuntha, Ayodya, Dwaraka, Vrndavan, Govhardhan, and Radha Kund. All have varying degrees of sacrifice to attain faith in such destinations we must come in connection with the agents from those realms and through service to their instructions we may be given firm conviction and entrance to the corresponding consciousness. Srila Sridhara Maharaj has told you can always know a person by their ideal.

I can appreciate the demigods taking a human birth to dance in the kirtan of Mahaprabhu.

I know what Prabhupads kirtans were like, they still dance in my heart 30 years later, so what would the dharsan of Gauranga and Nityananda arm in arm do to any souls existence?

Forget about going back home to Brahma Loka, get Saraswati Devi on the cell phone and tell her to turn over the Kingdom to the next in line, won't be back for dinner tonight, come on down we're eating out at Jagganath Puri. Harrrri bol!

[Guest guest]

 

B.R. Sridhar Maharaja said that I believe. Never heard where Srila Prabhupada said it.

 

Hard one for me to accept, I admit.

 

 

So many things the acharyas have said are hard to accept, but if Srila Prabhupad accepted Srila Sridhara Maharaj as siksa guru and advised all his followers to go to Srila Sridhara Maharaj for all things philosophical, then it's simple all it takes is faith.

 

And as SSM has said A little faith in the right place can cover a vast distance.

Actually SSM although his realizations and preaching are very high and sweet he doesn't preach a lot on the details of those scriptures that can test our faith, rather he is a saragrahi vaisnava synthesizing the essence of the vast banks of scripture he knows by heart.

[Guest guest]

unless and until somebody can present shastric reference to support the claim that the Jiva first became a Lord Brahma, the concept has no validity.

 

Was the Jiva Lord Brahma or brahma?

 

Without shastric support for this idea, there is no way to discuss it legitimately.

[theist]

 

How is that so hard to believe?

 

I mean, if you even believe in Krsna, that we're all his jivas, and we've fallen from Vaikuntha, how is the idea that our first stop on the descension to this planet is as a controller or creator of a universe so hard to believe?

 

Well for one thing there are also other statements that tell us that if there is no suitable person for the post of Brahma Krsna Himself will play the role of Brahma? If ever soul falls into matter through the postion of the creator of universal phenomena then how could there ever be such a shortage?

 

Brahma is said to be liberated at the end of his life so how does that harmonize with Brahma working his way down to the worm in stool status before traveling back up?

 

Also we are told that we all can become a Brahma if we wish.

 

Anyway these are my doubts but I feel no need to resolve it. I am content with holding no specific opinion on this technicality. It is enough for me to know the jiva slips into maya at a high level of purity, after all he has not yet generated karmic reactions, and then becomes increasingly implicated in desires, actions and reactions and chnages his staus accordingly.

 

 

I think it makes sense that Earth is not the only testing ground for us, and that there is a progression or regression as it were of how much power or influence a jiva may wield under Krsna.

 

I agree and that is rather obvious considering the variety of positions souls are occupying. I am not so Earth centric as to think it all starts and ends here on this one little planet. But that does not mean every soul had to have been the creator of the universe that he first fell into.

[theist]

 

B.R. Sridhar Maharaja said that I believe. Never heard where Srila Prabhupada said it.

 

 

 

I should have emphasised the I believe portion of my statement. Very possible my recollection is faulty.

[Puru_Das]

 

I have read in some Vaishnava writings, that when a jiva falls into the material universe, he first takes birth in the body of Brahma. Does this mean we were all Creators of a universe in our first incarnation? I am confused how we fell from such a high position from being the head manager of a material universe for 311.4 trillion years.

 

What you may have read was an editing mistake in a purport in the SB.(perhaps 8th or 9th Canto) If I can find the exact reference I will post it. "Brahma" was misprinted. It should have read "Brahman." The jiva can fall from Brahman, not the jiva can fall from Brahma. This letter from Srila Gour Govinda maharaja should clarify the matter for you.

 

September 6, 1995

 

My Dear Kavi Karnapura dasa,

Hare Krsna. May you have the blessings of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga all the time. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for your letter dated the 2nd of August, 1995. I have gone through it carefully and noted the contents.

It is quite clear, according to the statements of Guru, sadhu and sastra that one who is occupying the post of Lord Brahma cannot fall down from that position. In the fourth Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam you will find that Lord Siva states:

sva-dharma-nisthah sata-janmabhih puman virincatam eti tatah param hi mam

avyakrtam bhagavato 'tha vaisnavam

padam yathaham vibudhah kalatyaye (SB 4.24.29)

 

"A person who executes his occupational duty properly for one hundred births becomes qualified to occupy the post of Brahma, and if he becomes more qualified, he can approach Lord Siva. A person who is directly surrendered to Lord Krsna, or Visnu, in unalloyed devotional service is immediately promoted to the spiritual planets. Lord Siva and other demigods attain these planets after the destruction of this material world."

 

So, one who has executed sva dharma, varnasrama dharma for one hundred births, thenhe become eligible to occupy the post of virinci, Lord Brahma. Who has done even mroe pious activities, he can approach Lord Siva, "he comes to me", Lord Siva says. But a vaisnava who is completely surrendered, a dear devotee, premi bhakta, he directly goes to the Lord's own abode. He doesn't have to wait until the end of the kalpa. When complete annihilation takes place at the end of the kalpa, kalpa kseya (which takes place at the end of Lord Brahma's life) Lord Siva states, "then we'll go."

 

Lord Siva and he who occupies the post of Brahma both return to the Lord's abode at the end of the kalpa Sivaji himself says so. So then how is it possible that Lord Brahma fall and becomes an ant? Where is it in sastra?

 

The Lord states in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta,

 

kona kalpe yadi yogya jiva nahi paya

apane isvara tabe amse 'brahma' haya

Madhya 20.305

 

Who is eligible to take up the post of Lord Brahma? The Lord says, "If in a kalpa a suitable living entity is not available to take charge of Brahma's post, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself personally expands and becomes Lord Brahma." Such is the highly elevated position of Lord Brahma.

 

Again it is stated in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta that Lord Brahma is botha guna avatara as well as a saktyavesa avatar.

garbhodakasayi-dvara sakti sancari'

vyasti srsti kare krsna brahma-rupa dhari' (Madhya 20:303

"Such a devotee is empowered by Garbhodakasayi Visnu. In this way, an incarnation of Krsna in the form of Brahma engineers the total creation of the universe. "

 

jiva-rupa 'brahmara' avesavatara-nama (Madhya 20:369)

 

"When a living being is empowered to act as Lord Brahma, he is also considered a saktyavesa-avatara." So it is clear that Brahma is an incarnation of the Lord, how is it possible for him to fall down?

 

In Srimad Bhagavatam, sixth canto, a list of the twelve mahajanas is given,

svayambhur naradah sambhuh

kumarah kapilo manuh

prahlado janako bhismo

balir vaiyasakir vayam

SB 6.3.20

 

"Svayambhur" is Lord Brahma. He is the first Mahajana listed. How will he be considred a Mahajana is he is subject to fall down?

 

Our Sampradaya is the Brahma-Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. Lord Bramha is the head of our sampradaya. if the head of the sampradaya will fall, then how will it be a bona-fide ampradaya? All of these points are simple to understand.

 

So, my question now is, did Hari Sauri raise all of these points to Srila Prabhupada? Did he ask for further clarification? You may ask him if he got explanation from Srila Prabhupada on these points. What is Srila Prabhupada's reply I would like to hear.

 

Because of so much evidence to the contrary, therefore I say that some editing mistake may have occured. Lord Brahma can never fall from his position.

 

Rather, the point is that if one enters the Brahman region, from there he falls down. From there he enters this material world in the lower species of life. Srila Prabhupada states that, "The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Pesonality of Godhead." This is Srila Prabhupada's own conclusion as given in his purport to Srimad bhagavatam 4.30.5.

 

In the Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, Sri Ramananda Raya explains in reply to the question posed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

"mukti, bhukti cvanche yei kahan dunhara gati?"

"sthavara-deha, deva-dea yaiche avasthiti"

 

"And what is that destination of those who desire liberation and those who desire sense gratification?" Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked. Ramanada Raya replied, "Those who attempt to merge into the existence of the Supreme Lord will have to accept a body like that of a tree. And those who are overly inclined towards sense gratification will attain bodies of demigods."

 

So Ramananda Raya explains that those who enter the Brahman region . . .there and enter the lower species, sthavara janma. The are born as trees or mountains. Fall down is from Brahman, not Brahma. It appears that some mistake has been made in editing Srila Prabhupada's words.

 

May this letter find you in good health and a blissful mood of Krsna consciousness.

 

Your ever well wisher,

(signature) 6/9/95

Gour Govinda Swami

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theist]

So if Brahma cannot fall from his position the idea of a jiva coming into the material atmosphere cannot first occupy the post of Brahma and then continue to slide downward.

[Guest guest]

Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur:

 

Before acquiring material designations, the living entity is supremely pure. Even though he is not engaged in serving the Supreme Lord, he remains situated in the neutral position of santa-rasa due to his marginal nature. Though the living entity born from the marginal potency does not at that time exhibit a taste for serving the Lord due to a lack of knowledge of self-realization, his direct propensity of serving the Supreme Lord nevertheless remains within him in a dormant state. Though the indirect propensity of material enjoyment, which is contrary to the service of the Lord, is not found in him at that time, indifference to the service of Hari and the seed of material enjoyment, which follows that state of indifference, are nevertheless present within him. The living entity, who belongs to the marginal potency, cannot remain indifferent forever by subduing both devotional and non-devotional propensities. He therefore contemplates unconstitutional activities from his marginal position. As a sleeping person dreams that he is active in the physical world without actually being involved in activities, when the dormant indifferent living entity of the marginal potency exhibits even a little apathy to the service of the Supreme Lord and situates himself in a neutral, unchanging condition for even a little time, he is infected by impersonalism. That is why the conditioned soul desires to merge in the impersonal Brahman, thus exhibiting his mind's fickle nature. But due to neglecting the eternal service of the Lord and thereby developing the quality of aversion to the Lord, he cannot remain fixed in that position. In this way aversion to the Lord breaks his concentration of mind and establishes him as the master of this world of enjoyment.

 

(Brahmana o Vaisnavera Taratmya)

[Guest guest]

 

So if Brahma cannot fall from his position the idea of a jiva coming into the material atmosphere cannot first occupy the post of Brahma and then continue to slide downward.

 

I remember hearing that old myth when I was in ISKCON.

I forgot all about it.

When somebody brought it up on this topic I thought the concept was totally ludicrous and I have not an ounce of belief that every jiva starts out as a Lord Brahma.

 

There are not enough universes for every Jiva to have been a Lord Brahma at one time.

 

Each universe has trillions upon trillions of jivas drifting around and only ONE Lord Brahma.

 

I just don't see how the math of every jiva having been a Lord Brahma first can possibly be possible when you figure how many universes there are and how many trillions more jivas there are drifing around.

 

It's totally illogical, impractical and unreasonable.

 

There is probably not enough universes for all the jivas in one universe to have been Brahma, much less all the jivas in the millions of unvierses.

 

Because Lord Brahma lives till the end of the universe and then he enters Vaikuntha.

At the time of universal disolution, Lord Brahma and all those on his planet tranform their subtle bodies into spiritual bodies and transfer to Vaikuntha.

 

That is the shastric version.

 

Nothing about Lord Brahma falling down and become an amoeba.

 

Lord Krishna says there is no loss or diminution on the path of bhakti and Lord Brahma is a devotee.

He does not fall down to become a worm in stool.

[Guest guest]

I remember hearing that although our Lord Brahma is a pure devotee, not all Brahmas in other Universes are pure devotees. Is there any truth in that, or is that another myth? I know that there is a pastime where all the Brahmas came to visit Lord Krsna in Dvaraka and offered their respects to Him. That would seem to indicate that they were pure devotees. Then again, Lord Indra, Varuna, and many other demigods have had the darshan of Krsna, yet I'm not sure that they are considered pure devotees. I believe Srila Prabhupada said that the demigods are lining up to take birth in Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana Movement. That would seem to indicate that further purification is required.

[Guest guest]

 

I remember hearing that although our Lord Brahma is a pure devotee, not all Brahmas in other Universes are pure devotees. Is there any truth in that, or is that another myth? I know that there is a pastime where all the Brahmas came to visit Lord Krsna in Dvaraka and offered their respects to Him. That would seem to indicate that they were pure devotees. Then again, Lord Indra, Varuna, and many other demigods have had the darshan of Krsna, yet I'm not sure that they are considered pure devotees. I believe Srila Prabhupada said that the demigods are lining up to take birth in Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana Movement. That would seem to indicate that further purification is required.

 

Not all Brahmas are jivas. some are vishnu-tattva.

If the Lord Brahma in each universe is the leader of the parampara, then he would need to be a pure devotee.

 

The Lord Brahmas that are Vishna-tattva are not pure devotees, they are Godhead.

It's a technical thing, but the Lord of each universe is greater than we can even imagine.

[Puru_Das]

 

I remember hearing that although our Lord Brahma is a pure devotee, not all Brahmas in other Universes are pure devotees. Is there any truth in that, or is that another myth? I know that there is a pastime where all the Brahmas came to visit Lord Krsna in Dvaraka and offered their respects to Him. That would seem to indicate that they were pure devotees. Then again, Lord Indra, Varuna, and many other demigods have had the darshan of Krsna, yet I'm not sure that they are considered pure devotees. I believe Srila Prabhupada said that the demigods are lining up to take birth in Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana Movement. That would seem to indicate that further purification is required.

 

Who did you hear it from? What was his source? Is it confirmed in sastra?

There are many different kinds of demigods and if I remember correctly over 33 million of them. Not all of them are daivas with positions of universal management like Indra and Varuna etc. Regardless their position is exalted and not for us to judge. Those demigods that are lining up to take birth in the Sankirtana Movement, could certainly mean that since they are devotees it is their aspiration to take birth in Nabadwipa and directly associate with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, during his lila. Doesn't necessarily mean they are lining up to be born in the present day kali yuga.

 

I heard Srila Prabhupada once mention on a morning walk in L.A. while discussing Lord Brahma's position, that there are many different levels of pure devotees as well. No one had any idea what he was talking about. The deeper meaning of His Divine Grace's statement can be better understood by reading the Brhad Bhagavatamrta of Srila Sanatana Gosvami in which you can find out about the different levels of bhakti.

http://bvml.org/SSG/0.html

http://bvml.org/SSG/brhad-bhagavatamrta.pdf

 

Some additional explantion:

 

". . . There are actually millions of divisions of devotees, but among them five are prominent – the jnani-bhakta, suddha-bhakta, premi-bhakta, premapara-bhakta and prematura-bhakta. . . . The first category of devotees in the five kinds of pure devotion is Prahlada Maharaja, who is a jnani-bhakta. Sanaka, Sananda, Sanatana and Sanat-kumara, in their first stage, were jnani-bhaktas, and Grandfather Bhisma was also a jnani-bhakta. It is not easy to be like them. They were bhaktas, not voidists or impersonalists (nirvisesa-vadis). They didn’t follow Sankaracaryas’s theory. They never said, “I am Brahma – I am that Supreme Impersonal Being.” They knew that Lord Krsna is Parabrahma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is a strong conception (jnana) of the opulence of Krsna in their hearts, so they are jnani-bhaktas. The four Kumaras were even speakers of asta-kaliya-lila. Bhisma Pitama is a very exalted devotee and is one of the 12 mahajanas; but he is not a suddha-bhakta, in the sense that he cannot render direct personal service.

 

Prahlada Maharaja meditated on Lord Krsna. Bhismadeva can meditate and the four Kumaras can also meditate. But they consider that their Lord is never hungry, He has no thirst, and He never gets tired – so there is no need for giving him a massage, for example – as Hanuman massages Lord Rama. They never render personal service.

 

Pure bhakti is “anukulyena krsnanu-silanam”. There must be some service. A pure devotee will serve his Lord. But jnani-bhaktas have nothing to do, because they always think, “He is our savior, protector, and worshipable Lord.”

 

Now we will explain how Prahlada Maharaja is a jnani-bhakta. He had no worldly desires at all. Lord Nrsimhadeva appeared to him and said, “You may ask any boon from me.”

 

Prahlada Maharaja replied, “I am not a business person. If I have any worldly desire, please take it away.” Lord Nrsimhadeva insisted, “You must choose a boon.” Prahlada Maharaja wanted his father to be liberated, and he also requested, “I want all non-devotees in this world to be free from the endless pain of birth and death and be liberated; and in turn, I will suffer for them.” Lord Nrsimhadeva wept and thought, “What a glorious devotee!”

 

Prahlada Maharaja is a pure devotee. His jnana does not mean nirvsesa-jnana – the misconception that the ultimate truth is impersonal. Rather, his jnana is aisvarya-jnana. We see here that there is not so much mamata (sense of “my-ness”) towards the Lord and no service, because of knowledge of the Lord’s opulence. You can read the pastimes of Lord Nrsimhadeva and Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-bhagavatam if you want to know more.

 

Next is Ambarisa Maharaja, who was a suddha-bhakta. Ambarisa Maharaja was a sadhaka. Prahlada Maharaja was liberated, and yet Ambarisa Maharaja’s bhakti was superior to that of Prahlada in some sense – because he was actively engaged in serving Lord Krsna. He stayed in Vrndavana for some time, doing parikrama of Vraja-mandala – Kesi-ghata, Vamsi-vata, Rasa-sthali, Nandagaon and Varsana. He even used to go to Radha-kunda and Syama-kunda. Although he was a sadhaka, he had a special mamata for Krsna, the beloved of the gopis. Prahlada Maharaja has never been to Vrndavana. Sanaka and Sanandana the other Kumara brothers were in Haridvar. So Ambarisa Maharaja was very fortunate.

 

Superior to Ambarisa Maharaja is Hanuman. Hanuman is a premi-bhakta. He is liberated and is serving Rama, and he has so much mamata for Him. He discovered Sita in Lanka and he carried Rama on his shoulders. Ambarisa Maharaja could not do so. Ambarisa Maharaja was thinking of serving – in other words he was serving with his internally conceived spiritual form within; but externally he was in the body of a sadhaka (practitioner), which could serve the deity but not the Lord in His pastimes. On the other hand, Hanuman was actually serving Rama with his body.

 

Hanuman serves Rama in all respects. Some knowledge of Rama’s opulence is present in his heart, but very rarely. Hanuman has aisvarya-jnana, but not always. He considered that his Lord was sometimes hungry, so he would bring so many fruits from the forest. When Ravana stole Sita, Hanuman jumped over the ocean and found her. He also burnt Lanka and returned to Rama. He thought, “I am qualified to kill Ravana, but I desire that he be killed by Lord Rama.” He wanted to take Sita on his back and bring her to Rama, but she denied to do so and said, “Rama should come, and finish this entire dynasty of demons.”

 

The Pandavas are still more superior. They are called prema-para bhaktas. Hanuman can carry Rama and Laksmana on his shoulders, but he cannot sit on their shoulders. He cannot give his food remnants to Rama, thinking, “Oh, this is very sweet. Let me give some to Rama.” He fears to do so, because knowledge of Rama’s opulence is somewhat present. Opulence is somewhat of an obstacle, so although he is so high a devotee, there is some obstruction in his flow of devotion.

 

Lord Rama himself told Hanuman, “I am Krsna. Obey me and also help Arjuna. Always sit on top of his chariot and continually help him to conquer Duryodhana.” So not only did Krsna become the servant of the Pandavas, but Hanuman did as well.

 

[On the following night in Volgograd, Srila Narayana Maharaja told his audience about the devotion of Sri Uddhava, as an example of the prematura-bhakta, and finally he told about the love in separation of the gopis and especially Srimati Radharani.]

Divisions of Devotion

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20040915.shtml

[Guest guest]

 

There are many different kinds of demigods and if I remember correctly over 33 million of them. Not all of them are daivas with positions of universal management like Indra and Varuna etc. Regardless their position is exalted and not for us to judge. Those demigods that are lining up to take birth in the Sankirtana Movement, coud certainly mean that since they are devotees it is their aspiration to take birth in Nabadwipa and directly associate with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, during his lila.

 

I realized after I made my post that I may have committed an offense. Thankyou for correcting me. I humbly apologize to the Demigods for what I said, that they may need further purification by participating in this Sankirtan Movement. I was just speculating, but in doing so, I committed an offense. As you mentioned, there are many varieties of pure devotees.

 

That leads me to another question. I had heard (don't remember the source, just that it was often preached in Bhagavatam classes) that when the living entity first enters this Universe, he does so as a Demigod. Is that true? Or perhaps not actually as a Demigod, but as a resident on one of the planets of the Demigods?

[Guest guest]

Regarding the original question.

 

(From my understanding)

No it is not true at all that you begin as Brahma and fall down.

There is nothing to support that.

 

It is the other way round....

You take birth(for the first time or nth time) from Brahma in various species of life and then ascend up or fall down depending on your Karma.

 

This is what scriptures say.

 

In each cycle of creation the most pious soul is offered the position of Brahma in the next cycle.

 

But all positions even Brahma is temporary.

 

Hope this clarifies.

[anandadeha]

HariOm

Would like to ask somebody who is experienced in meditation about third eye,Does every person have a third eye?How many eyes have got liberated soul then?Is third eye the vision when you still looking with clocsed eyes?Please writte your coments thanks;-)

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Have you considered that, in a sense, right *now* we are all little Brahmas?

 

Our bodies are little universes, complete with billions of semi-autonomous cells. We are the consciousness motivating the matter that makes up our bodies. We make the decisions that have grand consequences for our bodily universes. Looking at it that way, it is even *more* vital that we fix our consciousness on the Supreme Lord, isn't it?

 

There's a story in Shastra about our Lord Brahma going to Vaikunta to see Lord Narayan. When he enters the waiting room, he is amazed to see all the different Brahmas assembled there. Some with 8 heads, some with 16, etc.

 

Maybe we're the Brahma with half a head

[Kulapavana]

It is amazing how many shastrically incorrect things circulate among the Iskcon devotees and are taken as gospel and passed down to the newcomers as "truth" using the mantra: "Prabhupada said..."

 

It is even worse when it comes to understanding and interpreting things Prabhupada did actually say.