Salary for the Temple Presidents!!

[Guest guest]

Recently Dandavats has published an announcement by Bir Krishna Das Goswami, requesting candidates for the post of Temple President in Fiji. One intriguing thing is the **negotiable salary** for the temple president. Does a person who does seva for Prabhupada need salary? Or did Srila Prabhupada ever mention of salary for the devotees in ISKCON? Those grihastas serving full-time in ISKCON temples are supposed to be simple and in turn they get maintained by the temple. What is the need of a salary, and that too "negotiable"?? Please comment.

[Guest guest]

I am the beginner of this thread. I forgot to add some funny words that only suits the coporate world:

 

1. Temple president **opening**

2. negotiable salary

3. fill the vacancies

4. accepting applications

5. Supervising the resident devotees

6. A monthly salary (terms to be negotiated) will be provided

7. Other terms to be negotiated

8. There will be an initial 6 month evaluation period.

 

Bir Krishna Maharaja, will there be any appraisal every six months as in the corporate world, and is there any notice period for resignation? How will this post enhance my devotional **career** if an offer is made to me?

 

Did Srila Prabhupada start a bhakti movement or a bhakti company? If this mindset continues ISKCON will be reduced to people who work for salary and the deterioration is imminent. We will have to recruit MBAs who will read books and preach and collect funds for the society ISKCON will become devoid of voluntary enthusiastic preachers who would preach based on experience and realization.

 

"...our leaders should be careful not to kill the spirit of enthusiastic service, which is individual and spontaneous and voluntary. They should try always to generate some atmosphere of fresh challenge to the devotees, so that they will agree enthusiastically to rise and meet it. This is the art of management: to draw out spontaneous loving spirit of sacrificing some energy for Krishna. But where are so many expert managers? All of us should become expert managers and preachers. We should not be contented. There must be always some tapasya, strictly observing the regulative principles - Krishna consciousness movement must always be a challenge, a great achievement to be gained by a voluntary desire to do it, and that will keep it healthy." (Srila Prabhupada letter to Karandhara 22 Dec, 1972)

 

How can a temple president who is getting a negotiated salary for his so-called service be spirited with "enthusiastic service, which is individual and spontaneous and voluntary" ??

[Guest guest]

Whatever happened to the dandavats.com website? It has been offline for more than a week. Comes up with message that the account has been suspended.

[Guest guest]

No--it works fine for me, and apparently for the person asking about the job opening at ISKCON Fiji.

[Guest guest]

Temple President Opening in Heavenly Fiji

 

By Bir Krishna das Goswami

 

Srila Prabhupada personally opened the first temple in Fiji, the Krishna Kaliya Temple in Lautoka. During his visit to Fiji, Srila Prabhupada explained that the Kaliya serpent had now taken shelter of Fiji. This Kaliya serpent being a devotee, protects the other devotees

 

The Deities of Krishna Kaliya, Gaura Nitai, and Radha Govinda with Lalita and Visakha are being worshipped in the temple.

 

Thousands of local devotees flock to the temple on Janmastami, and other holidays.

 

The premises consist of a temple building, and adjoining prasadam hall/auditorium.

 

The temperature is always perfect, tropical fruits (mangos, papaya, etc.) are in abundance, and the prasadam is the best in the world.

 

Now that some of the devotees are retiring from management positions, we are in need of expert managers to fill the vacancies.

 

We are accepting applications for the position of Temple President in Lautoka. Here are the details.

 

Duties:

1. Regular attendance at the morning program

2. Supervising the resident devotees and ensuring their regular attendance at the spiritual programs

3. Supervising the finances of the temple

4. Arranging and participating in preaching programs on a regular basis

5. Making regular reports to the GBC representative

6. Cultivating members

7. Making sure that the services at the temple go on smoothly

8. Making sure that the Deity worship goes on smoothly and is conducted properly

9. Making sure that the devotees have harmonious relationships

 

Benefits:

1. The temple president and family (if he has a wife and family) will be supplied with a private apartment in a building adjoining the temple.

2. Visas and transportation will be arranged

3. A monthly salary (terms to be negotiated) will be provided.

4. Travel expenses will be paid

5. Other terms to be negotiated

 

There will be an initial 6 month evaluation period.

 

If you are interested please contact: Bir Krishna das Goswami (GBC-Fiji) at

bkgoswami@earthlink.net

[gHari]

Sounds like a great job.

[Avinash]

I have never held any position in any temple except for doing some voluntary services on a few occasions. Therefore, I do not know the details involved. But I do not condier it bad even if somebody takes salary for being temple president. It is true that one should not hanker after money. But it does not mean that money has no use. So long we are in the world, we need money for various purposes. Either we should get those things from money earned by us or somebody should give us. Even if somebody else gives us, then also those things require money.

The temple president, together with his duties towards temple, may have some other commitments because of which he may need money. It is mentioned in this thread that he and his family will be maintained by the temple. But still there may be some emergencies for which the president requires money.

[Guest guest]

 

It is mentioned in this thread that he and his family will be maintained by the temple. But still there may be some emergencies for which the president requires money.

 

But the way they project it as a job with a corporate flavor rather than a service is what the point is. This is has become a trend. If a temple president takes money for his service, where is the dependence on Krishna here? It is clearly against the way Prabhupada wanted ISKCON temples to be run.

 

Even in case of emergencies, one has to depend on Krishna to provide for his necessities. Otherwise what is the point in rendering service? So the question is did Srila Prabhupada hire anyone as temple president when he started ISKCON?

 

Nowadays this mentality has infiltrated ISKCON. Many devotees who hail from villages or who dont have a good material education get brahminical initiation just to get a visa to western countries to be hired as priests in ISKCON temples. They get paid for their "service". So the main motive is to earn money and not to do seva. Is this what Srila Prabhupada taught us?

[theist]

They have been doing this for years. Srila Prabhupada warned that if enthusiasm for devotional service falls all these temples will become a burden to maintain. My paraphrase

 

I think it better to have a simple open hall or converted barn with some nice pictures of Pancha-tattva to worship while holding big kirtanas and simple programs like feasts etc. and no salary considerations, then big opulent structures and Deity programs that require so much time and maintenance thay we have to hire people to maintain it.

 

How about hiring profressional cooks who specialize in fine Indian cooking for cooking the for the Deities and the sunday feast? We could also hire the better kirtana leaders to go out on street sankirtana?

 

Nah, bad idea. Better to eat simple rice chapati and dahl made by pure hearted devotees even if sometimes burned. The whole idea of prasadam is to loving offer Krsna some preps. and receive the remnants left by Krsna. This is the love exchange that makes prasadam prasadam. Same with the professional singer idea. Better an off key devotee chanting with love for Krsna, his chanting will have the essential transcedental potency of Bhakti to spread which is the whloe point in the first place.

 

If we have to start attracting people with these mundane considerations then better to just simplify the program so as to keep the essence.

[Guest guest]

Then we could have professional Bhagavatam readers giving class.

Nobody would have to know the truth in scripture because it's all taken care of.

In fijian paradise too.

[Guest guest]

 

But the way they project it as a job with a corporate flavor rather than a service is what the point is. This is has become a trend. If a temple president takes money for his service, where is the dependence on Krishna here? It is clearly against the way Prabhupada wanted ISKCON temples to be run.

 

Even in case of emergencies, one has to depend on Krishna to provide for his necessities. Otherwise what is the point in rendering service? So the question is did Srila Prabhupada hire anyone as temple president when he started ISKCON?

 

Nowadays this mentality has infiltrated ISKCON. Many devotees who hail from villages or who dont have a good material education get brahminical initiation just to get a visa to western countries to be hired as priests in ISKCON temples. They get paid for their "service". So the main motive is to earn money and not to do seva. Is this what Srila Prabhupada taught us?

 

I know of a temple president who is and was a very sincere and enthuisiastic preacher and kirtan leader. He served as TP and did amazing services. He never took any salary. He was also big fundraiser. Very humble honest and sincere. He got fried by one Iskcon Guru and resigned. The new TP who was the disciple of that Iskcon Guru never made life comfortable for the old TP or his wife. They stayed on and still served but then left.

 

When they left they had no bank account so could not get a rented house to live in as it is required that you show a salary slip. They had joined after studies and had served for 16years fullime. There was no medical aid etc. Luckily they had no kids. So the poor things left the temple as beggars.

 

They frequented another preaching centre and continue preaching sincerely. Never stayed away or fell down. About five years later the TP who replaced him left after behaving badly with his girlfriend in the asram. The old TP was asked to ressume as TP. By this time he had a good job in a good company and was preaching daily through his leaving the temple after his office hours.

 

Now he still has his 8-5 job, still preaches daily after work and is TP for the last 2years.

 

I feel that if he had some initial financial support he could be saved all the anxiety he and his wife had to go through when they left.

 

Now if he had financial security he would be fulltime and doing much more with his preacher wife too. However once when I asked if he would prefer such a situation, he replied that he would never want to be financially dependant on ISKCON as the GBC could change anytime and the policy could change anytime. He likes to preach and serve and be financially sound independantly.

 

What a pity.

 

So when I read this advert and saw your views I thought to share this story. I am sure there are many like this. TP position is very demanding yet to have someone take on such a responsibility is very difficult. And it is more difficult for the wife. She can't serve her husband nicely else the community becomes jealous. If she stays with the devotees in asram, she cannot spare anything special for her husband to eat, else there be gossip that they enjoying private cumforts etc. Hence the offer of separate accom is a need it seems.

 

Cooperate world has many lessons to offer on how to care for its people till the end. The TP I wrote about now even has a fund that will go to his wife in event that he may leave his body. Krishna provides through cooperate world too.

 

Lastly I think the post of TP and the demands and tolerance one has to have when assuming this service is not very tasteful to many and I guess the GBC's now have to try to make the advertisement for such a position sound promising and stable. Hope the security the current GBC offers does not change when the GBC leaves.

[Kulapavana]

 

Does a person who does seva for Prabhupada need salary? Or did Srila Prabhupada ever mention of salary for the devotees in ISKCON? Those grihastas serving full-time in ISKCON temples are supposed to be simple and in turn they get maintained by the temple.

 

you live in a fantasy world. do you think it is ok for a competent person with good managerial skills to beg the temple for money every time he needs to buy toothpaste or his kids need diapers? it is about time Iskcon gets together it's act when it comes to managing the movement. you need quality people in key positions and helping them financially is absolutely required. old ways doing the pick are gone, get over it.

 

one of the reasons you dont get real kshatriyas to stay and manage the movement is because you make them into beggars. a kshatriya should not worry about where he will get the money for his kids needs while managing a temple or beg the treasurer for a handout. like in the vedic times, administrators were paid a salary. thats how it is in most temples and churches.

 

dont try to re-invent the wheel. you will fail. just like you failed before.

[Guest guest]

I would have to agree with Kulapavana prabhu on this one. If you want a qualified Temple President who not only participates in the morning program and chants his rounds with the devotees, but also has the business acumen to oversee the financial department (it takes many people 4 or 5 years of University education to learn Accounting), and if you want someone who is basically available 24/7 for variegated services, you can't ask him to go out and do the pick or get a job. I guess you could ask him to beg for handouts as needed from the Temple treasury, but it seems much simpler to just give him a "salary" based upon his projected needs. I suppose one could call it an "allowance" rather than a salary. So, in that sense, it is kind of interesting how this ad is phrased in corporate terms. For present day Iskcon, though, it seems practical to do it in this manner. However, in the early days of the Movement, things were much different, and far less structured. TPs would usually live in the Temples, with their wives living in the women's ashram. The TP would frequently go out on harinama with the devotees, at least for a couple of hours a day, and would often prepare an offering, as well as dress the Deities. Of course, the TPs in those days were usually young men in their mid to late 20s, with very little experience in management or accounting or in "people skills." Now, 30 years later, surely there are experienced and qualified devotees around, but for whatever reason, it's hard to locate these people. Probably the need for some security and stability has something to do with it, which is why this ad is phrased in a "corporate" manner.

[Guest guest]

 

you live in a fantasy world. do you think it is ok for a competent person with good managerial skills to beg the temple for money every time he needs to buy toothpaste or his kids need diapers? it is about time Iskcon gets together it's act when it comes to managing the movement. you need quality people in key positions and helping them financially is absolutely required. old ways doing the pick are gone, get over it.

 

one of the reasons you dont get real kshatriyas to stay and manage the movement is because you make them into beggars. a kshatriya should not worry about where he will get the money for his kids needs while managing a temple or beg the treasurer for a handout. like in the vedic times, administrators were paid a salary. thats how it is in most temples and churches.

 

dont try to re-invent the wheel. you will fail. just like you failed before.

 

Following Srila Prabhupada is just the opposite of re-inventing the wheel. Here is what Srila Prabhupada has to say on this matter:

 

 

Letter to: Kirtiraja in Los Angeles

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami in Bombay

12 January, 1975

 

 

My dear Kirtiraja das,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated Dec. 31, 1974 and have noted the contents. Any householder devotee who is working full-time (with his wife) as a sankirtana book distributer, of temple managerial duties, artist, cook, etc. shall be provided food, shelter, and other bare minimum necessities by the temple itself. They should not cook their own meals separate from the temple meals. If they have children, then some minimal allowance may be given according to the number of children. If they want anything extra or over and above what the temple president sees as absolute necessity, then they should work outside--the temple cannot pay for anything beyond the bare necessities. And definitely, the BBT cannot pay any salary to anybody. Our philosophy is "simple living and high thinking"--not sense gratification. The temple presidents and leaders (elder students) must show this by example. Temple or asrama means for renunciation and renounced persons. If one is engaged in self-realization process, then his material necessities become almost nil. Persons who do not like this can work outside.

Regarding food-stamps and welfare, if we have to fabricate some lie, that is not good. It can be done only if it is completely honest.

I hope this meets you in good health.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

 

ACBS.ps

 

[Guest guest]

Great post prabhu! I think the first post was just another lame attempt to criticize & find fault with another senior Vaisnava and ISKCON itself.

 

 

you live in a fantasy world. do you think it is ok for a competent person with good managerial skills to beg the temple for money every time he needs to buy toothpaste or his kids need diapers? it is about time Iskcon gets together it's act when it comes to managing the movement. you need quality people in key positions and helping them financially is absolutely required. old ways doing the pick are gone, get over it.

 

one of the reasons you dont get real kshatriyas to stay and manage the movement is because you make them into beggars. a kshatriya should not worry about where he will get the money for his kids needs while managing a temple or beg the treasurer for a handout. like in the vedic times, administrators were paid a salary. thats how it is in most temples and churches.

 

dont try to re-invent the wheel. you will fail. just like you failed before.

[Guest guest]

I don't see the confusion here. Srila Prabhupada, in the letter you quoted, clearly says "If they want anything extra or over and above what the temple president sees as absolute necessity, then they should work outside".

 

Since the temple president is a full time job, he cannot work outside. So nothing wrong in paying him.

 

 

Following Srila Prabhupada is just the opposite of re-inventing the wheel. Here is what Srila Prabhupada has to say on this matter:

[Kulapavana]

 

Following Srila Prabhupada is just the opposite of re-inventing the wheel. Here is what Srila Prabhupada has to say on this matter:

 

quotes are nice, but can you make them work in real life? you folks are all talk and dogma.

 

truth is: you cant find the qualified people you need for free, therefore you must do what every reasonable institution does: provide some financial security to qualified people. in the past I have seen hundreds of qualified devotees leave Iskcon because it would refuse to maintain them in a reasonable way. whose loss is it?

 

I manage a medium size (multimillion dollar a year) company for it's owners. With my work I generate revenue that pays for a lot more than my salary. That is a test for a manager: you pull your own weight and then some...

 

I joined Iskcon in 1979 and observed all kinds of irrational behavior over the years. I'm glad Iskcon leaders like Bir Krishna Maharaja are finally getting it, at least in this case.

 

And if you do not like the salary, volounteer for that position and do it for free. SHOW ME HOW ITS DONE

[Guest guest]

 

I don't see the confusion here. Srila Prabhupada, in the letter you quoted, clearly says "If they want anything extra or over and above what the temple president sees as absolute necessity, then they should work outside".

 

Since the temple president is a full time job, he cannot work outside. So nothing wrong in paying him.

 

Just because he is full-time and cannot work outside, it does not logically follow that he can be paid a salary. If he wants a salary, he must work outside, according to Srila Prabhupada. Paying a salary is strictly prohibited for any and all temple devotees.

[Kulapavana]

 

Just because he is full-time and cannot work outside, it does not logically follow that he can be paid a salary. If he wants a salary, he must work outside, according to Srila Prabhupada. Paying a salary is strictly prohibited for any and all temple devotees.

 

is that why in those days people in charge routinely took large amounts of money from temple collections for personal needs? you must be new... ask any oldtimer about how it really was back then. I remember some crying mothers who could not get bhoga milk for their babies from the temple kitchen while the TP was living large on temple money...

[Guest guest]

 

is that why in those days people in charge routinely took large amounts of money from temple collections for personal needs? you must be new... ask any oldtimer about how it really was back then. I remember some crying mothers who could not get bhoga milk for their babies from the temple kitchen while the TP was living large on temple money...

 

I am an old-timer and I witnessed many instances of corruption. But corruption doesn't justify not following Srila Prabhupada's instructions and concocting your own program.

[Kulapavana]

 

I am an old-timer and I witnessed many instances of corruption. But corruption doesn't justify not following Srila Prabhupada's instructions and concocting your own program.

 

if something does not work, you need to fix it. the order of the guru is the mission, not blind following. Prabhupada changed things many times when something was not working. He was very pragmatic.

[Guest guest]

 

if something does not work, you need to fix it. the order of the guru is the mission, not blind following. Prabhupada changed things many times when something was not working. He was very pragmatic.

 

Yes, I agree about fixing things and being practical, but this was a matter of principle for Srila Prabhupada. He clearly stated that the temple was for renunciates.

[Guest guest]

The truth is that Iskcon turned to Biscon a long time ago, thats what needs to be fixed and changed, temples are not designed to provide lifestyle choices. You practice austerity in them for good reason, to make spiritual advancement, and if you can't cut it then you go out and run a business.

Grhastras at a young age with children should be outside looking after their families, and sincere bramachayaras old or young with simple needs should be focused on administrating the temples inside. You just need good sober minded responsible individuals committed to serving the deities and maintaining the daily programs, preaching and sankirtan, and those family oriented individuals should be supporting the temple and it's programs from outside, in this way they benefit themselves and their family through giving a percentage of their earnings to the maintainance of the centre. For all the other trimmings and desires of family life you go outside and make the nessacary sacrifice of earning a living.

If the grhastras are sincere and serious about spiritual life they don't need to live in the temple to practice a regular program.

But if certain devotees need more association and more regulation then perhaps they can live in a farm community situation where they can have their own independant homes and at the same time support the overall whole system.

There are other lines apart from Iskcon that work quite satisfactory for all concerned but they have one guru at the helm who stears the ship, and that's the way it is, not a thousand opinions of the way it should be.

 

We could argue time and circumstance have changed, but the fundermental system remains, otherwise we may as well just be a product of history rather than sanatan dharma, when you water down the obvious wishes and instructions of guru for a mission that is the reason it does change, and not always for the better.

Of course there are innumerable examples in the past where everyones needs were not fullfilled but that is due mainly to mismanagement and imaturity.

You won't always have perfect leaders, temples are like hospitals with many diseased patients, qualified doctors may not always be available.

[Guest guest]

Are there any examples at present of TPs that don't earn a salary from ISKCON and do everything voluntarily, who maintain their kids and wife in a nice responsible manner????? And I mean honest, full time devotees?

 

I wish we could have a forum for TPs to say how they maintain themselves. So we can hear from the horses mouth!

[vijay]

Conversation: Vairägya, Salaries,

and Political Etiquette

--

April 28, 1977, Bombay

770428rc.bom

Conversation: Vairägya, Salaries,

and Political Etiquette

—

April 28, 1977, Bombay

Prabhupäda: Niñkiïcanasya. One who has decided that "This world is useless. I have to take birth repeatedly and accept different types of bodies and suffer." Body means... Those who have understood this fact and disgusted, so bhakti line is for them. One who has the tendency to enjoy this material world, and they are taking advantage of God, "Give me good wife, give me good work, good meal, good enjoyment," they are not in the bhakti line. They are in the very nascent stage.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Nescient stage?

Prabhupäda: Lower stage. Vairägya-vidyä-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. That... There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhaööäcärya. What page I don't... Çikñärtham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Kåñëa. And that is vairägya-vidyä, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahäprabhu gave up His gåhastha life? He's the same person. Why Rüpa Gosvämé gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairägya-vidyä. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairägya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?

Tamäla Kåñëa: Yes, I do.

Prabhupäda: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a gåhastha, and enjoy gåhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacäré and sannyäsé, our, mainly, not for gåhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is gåhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Generally in our temples, within the temple building no gåhasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But it's...

Prabhupäda: No, I am speaking, within the temple.

Tamäla Kåñëa: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the gåhastha living together with wife. I don't think there's any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be...

Prabhupäda: Adjoining buildings... But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments, like that.

Prabhupäda: But that is temple.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Yeah.

Prabhupäda: Just like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or... No, they are earning their own way.

Tamäla Kåñëa: In other words, if the temple provides an apartment, it's the same as paying a salary.

Prabhupäda: Hm?

Tamäla Kåñëa: In other words, giving an apartment is the same thing as providing a salary.

Prabhupäda: All right, apartment can be... But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential—"All right, you take apartment."

Tamäla Kåñëa: But not...

Prabhupäda: You take prasädam. But why salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairägya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he can work outside.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Actually, even if you don't give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life...

Prabhupäda: Because his service is essential.

Tamäla Kåñëa: But that has to be determined very strictly.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him.

Tamäla Kåñëa: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged.

Prabhupäda: Hm hm. So he's trying to practice... Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service, then gradually he'll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvädau svayam eva sphuraty adaù [brs. 1.2.234]. God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more you become advanced in devotional... So one who is giving service, dedicated life, so maybe... But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate, man separate.

Tamäla Kåñëa: They're... But the actual thing is that they're being, living together in an apartment, and the temple is paying for that apartment. They're not living separately in the temple. They're being...

Prabhupäda: That is to be discouraged. What do you think?

Giriräja: I agree.

Prabhupäda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiñëavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Vairägya should be cultivated.

Prabhupäda: Vairägya... Caitanya Mahäprabhu says clearly that niñkiïcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmä or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaëä daiva-netreëa jantur deha-upapattaye [sB 3.31.1]. He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmä, and there is ant in the stool. So vairägya-vidyä-nija... Väsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaù prayojitaù [sB 1.2.7], janayaty äçu vairägyam. And vairägyam means jïänam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jïänam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairägya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhütaù prasannätmä na çocati na käìkñati [bg. 18.54]. That is vairägya. So vairägya-vidyä... Otherwise why big, big persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Mahäräja, young man, the emperor of the whole world, gave up everything. Caitanya Mahäprabhu personally teaches, young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much honor in the society, Nimäi Paëòita, so beautiful body... Tyaktvä sudustyaja-surepsita-räjya-lakñmém [sB 11.5.34]. Surepsita. Caitanya Mahäprabhu's position was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up. That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma Bhaööäcärya says, vairägya-vidyä-nija-bhak..., çikñärtham: "to teach others." He understood that in order to teach others vairägya-vidyä... He is the Supreme Person. Vairägya-vidyä-nija-bhakti-yoga-çikñärtham ekaù puräëa-puruñaù: [Cc. Madhya 6.254] "That He was, Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Çré Kåñëa Caitanya."Çaréra-dhäré: "He has accepted one body as Çré Kåñëa Caitanya." So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... You decide. This is not to our... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that "Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent for..." So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, "Welcome." Otherwise we don't require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.

Tamäla Kåñëa: I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura. He always maintained a government service job, and still...

Prabhupäda: He gave so much service to Kåñëa. From his family maintenance... He could have renounced, but he said that the family has to be maintained. So he... Markaöa-vairägya. Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura was against giving sannyäsa. He didn't like these bäbäjés. They were markaöa-vairägya, superficially... Markaöa-vairägya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That is vairägya. But three dozen wives. Markaöa-vairägya. Markaöa means monkey. Superficially vairägya, nägä-bäbä. They eat vegetables, fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairägya. But sex. We have... I have seen in Våndävana. They have got a party, each monkey, women's party, and the male will come to any female, "Now ready,Enter." You can see it. Markaöa-vairägya nähi paraloka dasaya(?).So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into...

Tamäla Kåñëa: The Christians had that happen to them.

Prabhupäda: Hm?

Tamäla Kåñëa: The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense gratification.

Prabhupäda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.

Prabhupäda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.