Salary for the Temple Presidents!!

[Guest guest]

I don't necessarily have anything against salaries for temple presidents. But I think certain things need to be mentioned for why they occur. After Srila Prabhupada left the planet certain of his disciples assumed that the society's assets were theirs for their pleasure. They started doing as they pleased, buying useless things, waisting money, selling properties and causing havoc within the society.

 

A number of temple presidents fought back against this corruption and tried to introduce reforms. In the fight many got burned out, others were outmaneuvered and removed from their positions. Ultimately some reform came but at the cost of many spiritual lives. What happened was that all these temple presidents and devotees who dedicated years of their lives to Srila Prabhupada for no salary at all found that because they fought against the corruption they were turned out onto the street with no money.

 

So the temple management around the world started to realize they were one political misstep out on the street. In order to ensure some safety they started collecting salaries.

 

The ideal was no salary. But the practical introduction of a salary was not because temples needed to attract the best talent. It was a practical necessity against the political whims of the GBC and gurus.

 

Having said that I think a full audit of Iskcon is important. Most importantly are the following:

1) Auditing sannyasis - what income and bank balance do these renunciates have. If you are a millionaire sannyasi you should be removed from your position. Sannyas should be so unattractive that no one wants to take it on. Only then will the truly renounced take it on.

2) Auditing properties - where have the monies from the properties gone? I have heard of several instances where properties were sold and yet there is no explanation of where the funds went. Maybe it went somewhere legitimate, but there is no accounting of these transactions.

3) Auditing of all salaries - If temple management is being paid a salary are they worth the price? Do they set their own salary? There should be complete financial transparency.

 

It must be odd however when a brahmachari gets paid nothing but the management gets a salary. What sort of message does that send? Certainly not an inspiring one.

[Guest guest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guest-"M"

The temple is not a community managed by a kshatriya. The temple is an ashram for renounced sevakas of the Lord.

 

 

 

Not true. Actually Srila Prabhupada established the temples as PREACHING CENTERS and centers for cultural transformation of the surrounding communities. Ashram for renounciates is merely a PART of the temple. Prabhupada had a very broad vision of cultural revolution but the small minded people refuse to see it.

 

Mature householder devotees managing the temple usually relate a lot better to the community that supports this temple than a renounced sadhu. Some of such "tyagis" have a hard time relating to children causing "disturbance" in the temple for example. How can you preach if you cant properly relate to the congregation?

 

Lets face it, prabhu - most people coming to the temple are householders and most devotees in our movement are householders as well. If you think that sannyasis and brahmacaris are nowadays best qualified to run the temples you disregard the FACTS and experiences of the last 40 years. I'm glad not everybody in our movement is blind to the obvious lessons Krsna gave us in these 40 years.

 

Hari Bol

 

The person best qualified to manage a temple is one with either a Brahminical propensity (because they can if needed serve in the capacity of any varna) or Ksyatria propensity.

 

This whole arguement around renunciation has been skewed by the bias of the people using the word. Srila Prabhupada mentioned that bare necessities could be provided for by small allowance. This is the salary that we are speaking of. When he said "no salary" he was speaking to what he saw clearly was the attempt for persons to aquire money to expend on sense gratification that was beyond the regulations for even a grihasta manager. The renunciation is already there if the person is a grihasta according to the strict guidelines for such, and is using their energy to serve in some capacity at the temple.

 

So if there is a surrendered soul with brahminical tendencies consulting and overseeing the management of a temple, that person would be sure that the President and any other management level devotees were engaged in service according to their dharmic propenisities (both varna and ashrama), AND have the insight to determine how much "allowance" (read SALARY as we are discussing) that is required based on Srila Prabhupada's guidelines on what is considered necessary to maintain their lifestyle. If a married man who has children is going to be elected tp, the board and or cheif brahmana in charge would have to consider that the upkeep allowance may need to include certain necessities which a brahmacari or sanyassi would not require, and judge if the temple could afford such in the long run.

 

The allowance was never to be meant to meet the "changing" desires of different couples who might have different "needs" (read wants), like maybe the child mixing with public school children starts making demands for the latest toys, or to go out with friends to movies, paintball fighting, etc. The wife wants some luxury. who knows. Unless the marraige is based cent per cent for the reasons of increasing service to Srila Prabhupada and Mahaprabhus KC movement, by choosing one of such a couple for a temple management position when there is bound to be strings attached such as these will REFLECT in stress in the finances of the temple, because such mixed devotees are not meant to manage a temple according to the strict standards set by the founder acharya, and the discrepency will creep in as a need for sense gratification which cannot be met without creating a salary above and beyond the bare bones allowance. And this will "metaphysically" have to be created by some materialistic method of "fundraising", and thus the spoiling begins.

 

That is the black and white of purity.

 

All Glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga

[Kulapavana]

 

It must be odd however when a brahmachari gets paid nothing but the management gets a salary. What sort of message does that send? Certainly not an inspiring one.

 

you are right, but their needs and life realities are very different. auditing should be done as well and made public. all temple finances should be made public.

 

the biggest problem I see is in the TP selection process. Prabhupada wanted local devotees to select their own TP by voting. In practice that happens very rarely and TPs are selected by the GBCs. that only solidifies power in the hands of selected people and often leads to abuses.

[Kulapavana]

 

Unless the marraige is based cent per cent for the reasons of increasing service to Srila Prabhupada and Mahaprabhus KC movement, by choosing one of such a couple for a temple management position when there is bound to be strings attached such as these will REFLECT in stress in the finances of the temple, because such mixed devotees are not meant to manage a temple according to the strict standards set by the founder acharya, and the discrepency will creep in as a need for sense gratification which cannot be met without creating a salary above and beyond the bare bones allowance. And this will "metaphysically" have to be created by some materialistic method of "fundraising", and thus the spoiling begins.

 

That is the black and white of purity.

 

 

and it applies equally to both householders and sannyasis. I have seen some flagrant displays of attachment to expensive symbols of power and prestige among the "tyagis" in our movement over the years. It is not as bad as it used to be, but it is still there in some places.

[theist]

 

I'm wondering who you would consider an old-timer in ISKCON, because as you say, ISKCON has always been a work in progress. So joining in, say, 1970 was quite different than joining in 1972, which was quite different than joining in 1974, etc. So who in your opinion "qualifies as and old timer"?

 

Thank you and Hare Krishna.

 

Basically I consider the "old timer" thing to be irrelevant. Krsna consciousness is on the eternal platform. We see people who "joined up" in the good old days, late sixties early seventies, who are trying to take shelter in that status of being an "old timer". That designation is supposed to imply a large degree of experience and wisdom in this "whole Krsna conscious thing" but in reality it is just taking shelter of another ahankara imposed false designation. Someone can just start chanting today and in one month have more actual Krsna consciousness then someone who was in Iskcon ( or any other institution or matha) from it's inception and forty years ago. Actually it should be a source of embarrassment for anyone who has been familar with the basic tenets of Krsna consciousness for 35 or 40 years and still refuses to accept his position of being lower than the straw in the street and whose heart is still devoid of any actual love for Lord Krsna. And yes I am referring to myself.

 

As far as Iskcon goes I can only relate my experience. I started chanting in street sankirtana in late 1970. My introduction was on the street and so that is where started participating or "joined up." I lived in the Northwest and in 1971 the Berkeley temple held a large public festival to celebrate to appearance day of Lord Caitanya at UC campus. The temple devotees all left for the festival earlier than I could go so I had to hitchhike down a few days later. I arrived at UC at exactly 12 noon, to the minute, the start of the festival. That from Portland Ore. It was a sign to me that the Lord's hand was guiding my trip. Anyway the rain in Berkeley was intense that day and after a little while we all transfered to the then Berkeley temple, a large 3 story house near campus which was rocking big time with spontaneous kirtan's on all three floors. It was absolutely amazing. Hair down the back hippy types like myself made up a sizable proportion of the crowd and there were more devotees in the same place then I had even knew existed and all were dancing and chanting together as one family. "Love was in the air." There was no "karmi this" and "karmi that" *rap. I had never experienced such rapture. The devotee theme at that time when dealing with newcomers or anyone they met was to "bliss them out". That should be the theme today.

 

While there some body stole my sleeping bag from the temple shoe area. No problem, some devotee rounded up a couple blankets for me that night to sleep with and all was well. I traveled back with the temple devotees and moved in a few days later. That only lasted a few months as I couldn't handle the discipline of having someone tell me what to do all the time and plus I was quite crazy from all the LSD I had previously been taking. I blooped.

 

I did however remain in contact with the temple and developed into a lay practioner of sorts. Now the year is I think 1974. SF Ratha Yatra is a few weeks away and Srila Prabhupada will be there. Everyone was fired up. SF temple sent out requests for people to come early and help prepare for the event. I had time so I hitched again from Portland a couple weeks early to lend a hand. Arrived on a Sunday and the feast was on. SF temple then was in a building that used to house a mortuary in a less than desireable section of the city. Well the feast ended and the guests left I spoke to the temple commander about how I had come from Portland to help and asked for some service and a corner to sleep in. He replied that only people with shaved heads and sika are allowed to sleep in the the temple and no karmis are allowed after ten o'clock, showed me the door, and told me it was time for guests to leave. I found myself suddenly on the temple doorstep in a low class area of a strange city at night with no idea what to do or where to go.

 

The contrast between that and my earlier experience as related was striking, exactly like day and night. Fortunately a devotee came to my rescue and took me under his wing for next couple of weeks. That devotee was His Grace Jayananda Prabhu who engaged me daily in cart construction and found a place for me to sleep in a warehousehe was he using. So that was Krsna turning dust into gold for me. But the bitter cold experience of being kicked onto the street was real as well.

 

By this time the sense of us and them had really taken hold in Iskcon. So you see from my experience at least, the old days were long gone by 1974.

 

I view all this nostalgia for the good old days of Iskcon as being nonsense. Since Krsna consciousness is ever fresh if we find ourselves pinning away for the "good old days" we are just floating on the mental platform not factually in Krsna conscious.

 

Sorry this was so long but old brains like mine tend to spend a lot of time with memories. But then some memeories I want to keep like my first Lord Lord Caitanya Appearance day festival and how I met Jayananda Prabhu.

 

Forget the past that sleeps

And ner the future dream at all.

Act in times that are with thee

And progress ye shall call. -Bhaktivinode Thakur

[vijay]

Thanks for that theist prabhu, nice perspective. Im a relative junior in terms of age at least, i find myself pinning for the mid ninties when I first joined, to most its a time of no big deal, to others a terrible time, but for me I wanted to give my life to krishna during those days. Now I see all the so called cracks and faults, im living more in the 'realworld' and im less surrendered.

 

Your so right the nostalagia is nonsense. We have Krishna now but we've just moved back into the realworld(maya conciousness), hankering for what we already have.

[theist]

vijay,

 

It is akin to this "I am a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada" card that sometimes gets played on devotees that come after. It is a way ofpissing on a tree to mark our turf as being closer to Srila Prabhupada then the 2nd generation wave. It attempts to establish that fact in terms that can never be challenged.

 

My view is that a 2nd generation person who actually follows the discipline, internally as well as externally, that Srila Prabhupada taught, is a disciple. And someone who was formally initiated way "back in the day" but who never followed strictly internally and externally the discipline is not a real disciple at all in the true sense of the word.

 

Although common communication means we have to often take liberties and compromise this idea, in our own private times of introspection we need to be awre of these things or we end up taking ourselves and our devotional achievements way too seriously.

 

True disciples in the internal sense are self effulgent and to see them rise up out of the ranks of the 2nd 3rd or 4th generation as representitives of Srila Prabhupada and Krsna would be no surprise. In fact it should be expected if this Krsna conscious movement of Lord Caitanya's is to grow and expand.

[Sridas]

There's a definate lack of Bliiiiiiss in this world

Bring back the bliss brigade

As this world gets darker and more miserable the blissful bhaktas look like a very attractive option.

Come on Theist back on the street with that secret weapon

Show us ya form

What are ya made of?

[vijay]

 

vijay,

 

It is akin to this "I am a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada" card that sometimes gets played on devotees that come after. It is a way ofpissing on a tree to mark our turf as being closer to Srila Prabhupada then the 2nd generation wave. It attempts to establish that fact in terms that can never be challenged.

 

My view is that a 2nd generation person who actually follows the discipline, internally as well as externally, that Srila Prabhupada taught, is a disciple. And someone who was formally initiated way "back in the day" but who never followed strictly internally and externally the discipline is not a real disciple at all in the true sense of the word.

 

Although common communication means we have to often take liberties and compromise this idea, in our own private times of introspection we need to be awre of these things or we end up taking ourselves and our devotional achievements way too seriously.

 

True disciples in the internal sense are self effulgent and to see them rise up out of the ranks of the 2nd 3rd or 4th generation as representitives of Srila Prabhupada and Krsna would be no surprise. In fact it should be expected if this Krsna conscious movement of Lord Caitanya's is to grow and expand.

 

I agree, I guess on my side I must treat all elders,seniors as good as god, the vedic understanding is you even treat your guests who may be non devotees as good as god let alone devotees and disciples of senior vaishnavas.

 

Prahlad maharaja had the utmost respect and love for his father this is as it should be, however he never accepted anything he said that was unfavorable for devotional service.

 

Ultimately all living entites should be respected as good as god as they are parts and parcels. Not just guru's which leads to cultish behaviour. Respected as good as god, the trees, parents, the 'karmis', the world, the only difference is that some living entities are more conditioned than others therefore we take the association of those who are less conditioned or not conditioned at all and with the others we respectfully try to help them using whatever social relationship as a tool.

 

As you said for ourselves we should be introspective and very critical of what we ourselves are doing. For others we should be compassionate and respectful (I guess sometimes people have to be cut but obviously the mood should be correct which is the hardest part since my ego is so big).

 

PS. I like the dog marking his turf by peeing example, il use that one it can be applied anywhere, i love graphic examples (-:

[theist]

[Guest guest]

from the European Leaders Meeting Report

 

Next up was a three person presentation entitled ‘Wages for Sages’. This presentation set about addressing the issue of paying salaries to devotees for services rendered.

 

First to speak was Prahladananda swami who presented many quotes from Srila Prabhupada which more or less made clear that there are little or no grounds for devotees to receive salaries for services rendered. He did mention that there maybe exceptional circumstances that would warrant this and Prabhupada also allowed this, but that the norm should be that ISKCON does not pay salaries.

 

Param gati swami had a differing view and made the point that one of ISKCON’s main responsibilities is to provide protection and shelter for it’s devotees. And that should not automatically exclude financial help if such financial help assisted in that process of shelter and protection giving. He observed that many devotees when they marry find themselves in a situation where they are all but forced to take on jobs outside of the association of devotees. Many of them would prefer if they could be gainfully employed by ISKCON, not for monetary gain but to stay in the sanga of the devotees. The monetary aspect would be needed just to cover their basic requirements.

 

Praghosa das came from a slightly different angle again and made the point that first we need to decide if we want a blanket ban on salaries or not. If we do then the discussion over. If we don’t, and the reality is that many ISKCON centres around the world do now pay salaries to devotees, then we need to establish a system that is acceptable to the broad devotee community and is also supported by sastra.

 

He noted that we would also have to decide whether ISKCON is a society of brahmanas (often referred to by Srila Prabhupada)

 

“The Krsna consciousness movement has been started especially to create qualified brahmanas”

 

SB 4.12.48 Purport

 

Or is ISKCON also required to establish varnasrama (again this was often referred to by Srila Prabhupada)

 

“The presidents must be very careful on recommending gayatri initiation. After all, we are criticizing false cast brahmanas, if we ourselves are bogus brahmanas then our position is very bad. Now that we are more and more trying to implement the varnasrama divisions of society, we should not think that everyone has to become a brahmana. For example you are developing a farm there; so those who work the farm do not necessarily have to be a brahmana if they are not inclined to the brahminical standards. In this way, be careful about awarding the second initiation.

Letter to: Sudama, Rome 26 May 1974

 

He concluded by saying that if we accept that ISKCON will be made up of all four varnas then perhaps any salary structure could be based on the varnasrama system:

 

Brahmanas – no salaries or assets, live by donations

Ksatriyas - levy taxes and in return look after those under their care

Vaisyas - keep some of the profit from their business efforts

Sudras - maintained by either the ksatriyas or vaisyas

 

End of morning session.

[tensriram]

Should we use the word Dakshina or honororium ,in place of the word salary , we will not talk like this!

 

Should we say he is Executive Officer, CEO, or GM , or Adminstrator of the temple we may not talk as we are doing now.

 

There is no profit sharing talked about;

 

why do we go into topics like this? Can someone tell me , please.

[Guest guest]

who pays these salaries?

 

if these come out of temple donation some devotees will feel they money was used wrongly?

 

and what if the president is no good fot the post?

[Guest guest]

Good question. I wonder why too. Better to not start such topics.

 

 

why do we go into topics like this? Can someone tell me , please.

[Guest guest]

 

why do we go into topics like this? Can someone tell me , please.

 

Because it violates and dilutes the essence of the principles that Srila Prabhupada gave for ISKCON devotees to follow. Did Srila Prabhupada ever pay the temple presidents? It is service in the strict sense of the term and the devotees get maintained for the service they perform. If you can't follow these instructions of Prabhupada, don't call yourself as ISKCON devotees.

[Guest guest]

Let me ask you this- You say Srila Prabhupada said such and such. But are the conditions now the same as they were in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence? The answer is no. Therefore how you expect to use the same techniques is not clear.

 

Back in those days, the movement was full of Brahmacaris. These days, there is hardly one in many temples. These temples run on the services offered by Grihastas. How do you expect them to survive with a family and raise kids if they don't get paid anything. Let's not be too fanatic and be more practical instead.

 

And last but not the least ... walk your talk! It's easy to sit on your chair typing away all these things on your computer. Get into that position that you advocate (being temple authority with no salary) and it's a whole different ball game!

 

 

Because it violates and dilutes the essence of the principles that Srila Prabhupada gave for ISKCON devotees to follow. Did Srila Prabhupada ever pay the temple presidents? It is service in the strict sense of the term and the devotees get maintained for the service they perform. If you can't follow these instructions of Prabhupada, don't call yourself as ISKCON devotees.

[Guest guest]

 

Back in those days, the movement was full of Brahmacaris. These days, there is hardly one in many temples. These temples run on the services offered by Grihastas. How do you expect them to survive with a family and raise kids if they don't get paid anything. Let's not be too fanatic and be more practical instead.

 

“So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that “Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent

for...” So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, “Welcome.” Otherwise we don’t require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.”

(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, April 28th, 1977)

 

“Why salary? Krsna’s servant. We are eternal servant. That is the beauty of our institution. We have no hired men. Unless one is sincere, why he’ll work? (Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, August 3rd, 1976)

 

“So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gita.” (Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, April 15th, 1977)

 

“Regarding the restaurant, why they should get salary? There should be no salary. You are working without salary, so why they should take. They are not very important men. So after this month arrange for no one to get any salary there. That will be nice.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 16th, 1975)

 

“…But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life…But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential--”All right, you take apartment.”….You take prasadam. But why salary? Where

is the question of salary? Where is vairagya, renouncement? So in all

circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants

salary, he can work outside…In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In

the name of Vaisnavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably,

having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high

officers, you think over it and do the needful” (Srila Prabhupada Room

Conversation, 28/4/77)

[ananda]

Hare Krishna!

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

My 2 cents...

 

First of all, we should try to understand why Srila Prabhupada said what he said.

 

Clearly, in the previous post, Prabhuapada talks about renouncing sense enjoyment, and Prabhupada continues that living amenities and basic necessaities will be provided by the temple authorities...but why assistance in the form of MONEY is the question?

 

Some previous post talks about practical difficulties in todays world and then how it is easier said than done.

 

First, people who volunteer to do such temple activities WILL not be ordinary human beings like I. In other words, only people with deep convictions and love for Guru and Shastra can perform sacrificial activities which includes being a temple president without getting paid. It is not easy in todays world...but that is the whole point..the temple president sets an example to all new Vaishnavas and leads by example and hence that post cannot be occupied by just anyone but should earn the position which obviously will take a lot of sacrifice and love for Guru and Krishna.

 

So while the question of practical difficulty is for ordinary people but will not for vaishnavas who have decided to serve Krishna in a capacity as a temple president. If a grihastha is a temple president and if the question of wife and children maintenance comes into the picture, then, the ISKCON higher authorities should provide basic necassities such as education, food and housing. But why MONEY (is the question raised by Srila Prabhupada).

 

Second, Srila Prabhupada lived on this planet 30 years before, so the basic problems of economy in our society has not changed much (if one will look at the nations economical growth). My point, Srila Prabhupada did not live 500 years before but only 30 years and hence not much changed (except for inflation).

 

To occupy the post of higher order (Temple president) takes sacrifice and lots of devotion. It is not an easy job. We should understand that first. We should not equate a high position as normal and that it is easy. My point, the person occupying the post should be qualified and if he/she is qualified, then automatically there will be great levels of humility, tolerance, renunciation and devotion in that person thus superseding all mundane necessaities that we ordinary people face. For the sake of the extended family members, they should be equally venerated in supporting the family member to be in that post. But for practical purposes, Srila Prabhupada does mention about providing those necessities but JUST NOT with MONEY.

 

This is something we should try to follow if we want to make Srila Prabhupada happy. It is difficult but not IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[Guest guest]

You can copy and paste as many Prabhupada quotes as you like but that doesn't address the points that have been made stating why this may not be practical. Copy/pasting is easy enough!

 

 

“So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that “Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent

for...” So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, “Welcome.” Otherwise we don’t require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.”

(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, April 28th, 1977)

 

“Why salary? Krsna’s servant. We are eternal servant. That is the beauty of our institution. We have no hired men. Unless one is sincere, why he’ll work? (Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, August 3rd, 1976)

 

“So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gita.” (Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, April 15th, 1977)

 

“Regarding the restaurant, why they should get salary? There should be no salary. You are working without salary, so why they should take. They are not very important men. So after this month arrange for no one to get any salary there. That will be nice.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 16th, 1975)

 

“…But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life…But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential--”All right, you take apartment.”….You take prasadam. But why salary? Where

is the question of salary? Where is vairagya, renouncement? So in all

circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants

salary, he can work outside…In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In

the name of Vaisnavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably,

having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high

officers, you think over it and do the needful” (Srila Prabhupada Room

Conversation, 28/4/77)

[Guest guest]

 

You can copy and paste as many Prabhupada quotes as you like but that doesn't address the points that have been made stating why this may not be practical. Copy/pasting is easy enough!

 

Only for those without an attitude of surrender, following the acharyas words may be impractical. When you are not determined to give up your cosy and comfortable material life to serve Krishna as Srila Prabhupada wanted, why do you call it impractical. Please don't discourage others. If you can't do it, it doesn't mean none can do it.

[Guest guest]

That is a perfect point. I agree and stand corrected. The point you have made below is one that I cannot dispute.

 

 

Only for those without an attitude of surrender, following the acharyas words may be impractical.

[Bhakta Harry]

Why are we Ganging Up on Dhanurdhara Swami?

http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-06/editorials797.htm

BY: GURUKULI DASA

[.........]

Gauri das is now the temple president at the Bhaktivedanta Manor, one of the most prominent temples in ISKCON, he receives a wage of about US$ 60000 a year complete with and enviable pension scheme from Prabhupada’s money for his “service”. He is honored as a senior and respectable member of the community. He has a contract that when he leaves, for two years he will receive the full salary.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

$60,000 plus free food and free housing, free vehicle and free gasoline, free phone bill, free flight travel, etc. Add to that a $120,000 bonus payment when he quits. Plus there were accusations that several people on the BV Manor temple payroll also had their wives and sons on the payroll (imagine three people from the same house getting paid, now thats a good income).

 

The previous person who was temple president was Vipramukhya Swami. I wonder if he received the same payments as well.

 

Whether wrong or right, no on can deny that this is about as far off from Prabhupada's standard as you could go. Prabhupada wanted renounced devotees (including grihasthas) dedicating their lives to (unpaid) devotional service for the purpose of spiritual advancement. If someone had suggested that we should pay the above salary and benefits to a temple president, what would Srila Prabhupada have done?

[Guest guest]

 

$60,000 plus free food and free housing, free vehicle and free gasoline, free phone bill, free flight travel, etc. Add to that a $120,000 bonus payment when he quits. Plus there were accusations that several people on the BV Manor temple payroll also had their wives and sons on the payroll (imagine three people from the same house getting paid, now thats a good income).

 

The previous person who was temple president was Vipramukhya Swami. I wonder if he received the same payments as well.

 

Whether wrong or right, no on can deny that this is about as far off from Prabhupada's standard as you could go. Prabhupada wanted renounced devotees (including grihasthas) dedicating their lives to (unpaid) devotional service for the purpose of spiritual advancement. If someone had suggested that we should pay the above salary and benefits to a temple president, what would Srila Prabhupada have done?

 

It seems like Srila Prabhupada's clear instructions are just being trampled upon:

 

“So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that “Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent

for...” So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, “Welcome.” Otherwise we don’t require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.”

(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, April 28th, 1977)

 

“…But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life…But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential--”All right, you take apartment.”….You take prasadam. But why salary? Where

is the question of salary? Where is vairagya, renouncement? So in all

circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants

salary, he can work outside…In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In

the name of Vaisnavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably,

having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high

officers, you think over it and do the needful” (Srila Prabhupada Room

Conversation, 28/4/77)

[ananda]

Hare Krishna!

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

To everyone who saw/wrote in this thread....

 

we should learn from these incidents.

 

MAYA can be very strong and not for once, till we depart from this material world, we should think that we have become advanced devotees. Our sole goal is to attain the MOOD of Servant of the Servant of the Sevrant...then we can make Srila Prabhupada happy. Only then, we can defeat MAYA, if not, how much ever we try we will fail and ultimately dissatisfy His Divine Grace.

 

How much damage popularity can bring us, Gauri Das the temple president of Bhaktivedanta Manor, obviously must have been in ISKCON for sometime and must be considered advanced. If the information of $60,000 is true, this situation is very sad and surely Prabhupada is sad. How can he be advanced? Where are the 26 saintly qualities of which "no posessions", "no material desire" go....what to speak of the other 24.

 

So, we should learn from this and take vow that we should never fall into this TRAP....Krishna is giving us SO MANY REAL LIFE examples right in front our eyes, so that we can learn from the mistakes of others.

 

Hope as forum members and devotees who participate in the forum, we should be more careful and diligent in not falling into this trap of MAYA.

 

Always seek the attitude of humility and meekness (2 more qualities of a saint).

 

I am sad that ISKCON GBC has done nothing about this.....what is the use of preaching Bhagavata Philosophy if the leaders themselves are not BHAGVATS....who will follow...it is like saying...please dont smoke when the person saying it is a smoker.....

 

This is sad and unfortunate. Surely, this is not why Srila Prabhupada struggled to come here...

 

MAYA has announced itself in the court of ISKCON and Renunciation has renounced itself from the court of ISKCON...

 

Haribol!

 

anand