Salary for the Temple Presidents!!

[cbrahma]

 

Personally I think it would be better if Iskcon became at least such a "successful material religion" as opposed to the all-around failure it is now. If it was not for the generosity of the Indian community most Iskcon temples would have closed down long time ago.

It's very true that ISKCON has become the stepchild of transplanted Indians. To transform it into a Hindu cultural center that celebrates birthdays , funerals and weddings is a travesty of Prabhupada's mission. Not to found a religion , but a spiritual movement, empowered by Lord Caitanya.

[suchandra]

 

I agree with you here. The entire system needs to be made transparent, with proper checks and balances in place to avoid fraud. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

 

This is even better point, nice to have you back, Kula, although such proposals are being applied by the GBC-executive office desk yearly since 29 years. But you're right, why not make just another solicitation? To dare another leap? Good idea, Kula, keep at it!

[suchandra]

 

It's very true that ISKCON has become the stepchild of transplanted Indians. To transform it into a Hindu cultural center that celebrates birthdays , funerals and weddings is a travesty of Prabhupada's mission. Not to found a religion , but a spiritual movement, empowered by Lord Caitanya.

But what about if they desire this? See this construction plan of the only European ISKCON temple built in Indian style, scroll down to Lord Shiva temple,

http://www.krisnavolgy.hu/english/project/index.html#vh

[Kulapavana]

 

...although such proposals are being applied by the GBC-executive office desk yearly since 29 years. But you're right, why not make just another solicitation? To dare another leap?

 

I think if local devotees finally start to demand financial transparency, personal accountability, and independent oversight of their leaders when it comes to temple finances and management, it will eventually have to happen.

 

Lately I visited temples in a yatra where even temple presidents were not allowed to have a personal copy of this yatra's legal statutory constitution. The GBC "point-man" who wrote them and who got them approved by the government claims he has copy-rights to them and refuses to make them available. Local devotees did not think there was anything funny about it... If our people are so naive, why be surprised at all the abuse of power?

[suchandra]

 

I think if local devotees finally start to demand financial transparency, personal accountability, and independent oversight of their leaders when it comes to temple finances and management, it will eventually have to happen.

 

Lately I visited temples in a yatra where even temple presidents were not allowed to have a personal copy of this yatra's legal statutory constitution. The GBC "point-man" who wrote them and who got them approved by the government claims he has copy-rights to them and refuses to make them available. Local devotees did not think there was anything funny about it... If our people are so naive, why be surprised at all the abuse of power?

 

No, since about 12 years they give new devotees about 20 pages of ISKCON rules to sign before they join a temple. One of those rules is never to object or challenge the GBC, otherwise you have to leave ISKCON.

I dont know where you live but in Middle Europe they have this installed.

[Guruvani]

 

Maybe we see it that way but to the rest of the world Iskcon meets every definition of an organized church, or religion (in the sense of denomination).

 

Most people in the Judeo-Christian world do not consider the Hare Krishna movement as a religion.

In Judeo-Christian society only the Abrahamic creeds are religions.

 

For them to consider the Hare Krishna movement as a true religion they would be violating their own beliefs.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Guruvani-ji touches on an earlier unresolved question in this thread: what constitutes an "old-timer" in terms of ISKCON.

 

The clear distinction would be the "Prabhupada Era" of ~'67-'77 and then the "Post Departure Era" of '77 and onwards. Within these, of course, further subdivisions could be made.

 

Clearly, there was a difference in mood and practice between these two major eras in the history of ISKCON.

[cbrahma]

 

But what about if they desire this? See this construction plan of the only European ISKCON temple built in Indian style, scroll down to Lord Shiva temple,

http://www.krisnavolgy.hu/english/project/index.html#vh

Making survival the priority is the material world. What matters is what is surviving and how that survival is achieved. The temples were thriving when Prabhupada was here and yet materially, devotees were just learning how to administer. Drug addicts were becoming brahmanas by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada. His accomplishments were not ordinary feats - they were transcendental and empowered.

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani-ji touches on an earlier unresolved question in this thread: what constitutes an "old-timer" in terms of ISKCON.

 

The clear distinction would be the "Prabhupada Era" of ~'67-'77 and then the "Post Departure Era" of '77 and onwards. Within these, of course, further subdivisions could be made.

 

Clearly, there was a difference in mood and practice between these two major eras in the history of ISKCON.

Yes.

What many of the new generations of devotees do not understand about ISKCON is how rigid and powerful was the original ISKCON.

 

The "original ISKCON" was absolutely awesome.

I got a chance to be around the last 3 years of the Prabhupada-era and it was something that really can't be put into words.

 

The only way to understand was to be there and be a part of it.

 

The standards in the original ISKCON were very high.

 

The ISKCON of today is just a dim shadow of the original ISKCON of the Prabhupada-era.

 

I got to share the peak of ISKCON's greatness.

It's a shame that the new generation of devotees are being cheated out of the genuine ISKCON.

[cbrahma]

 

Yes.

What many of the new generations of devotees do not understand about ISKCON is how rigid and powerful was the original ISKCON.

 

The "original ISKCON" was absolutely awesome.

I got a chance to be around the last 3 years of the Prabhupada-era and it was something that really can't be put into words.

 

The only way to understand was to be there and be a part of it.

 

The standards in the original ISKCON were very high.

 

The ISKCON of today is just a dim shadow of the original ISKCON of the Prabhupada-era.

 

I got to share the peak of ISKCON's greatness.

It's a shame that the new generation of devotees are being cheated out of the genuine ISKCON.

I joined a temple in the 'old' days also. There is no comparison. The devotees literally glowed, effulgent. The current ISKCON is so preoccupied with the material that ironically it is hanging on by a thread. The GBC persist is seeing the problem as one of administration and material savy. Of course there is no problem that can't be fixed by following the instructions of the Founder Acarya to the letter. One not insignificant example, is attendance at the morning program. Only a small percentabe of devotees show up. Usually the same ones. If there is any kind of uplift -it is mostly social and superficial. I have yet to see genuine spiritual joy coming from the community as a whole.

[Sarva gattah]

Agree on this subject at least, the present version of ISKCON is nothing to what it was when I joined in 1971. Back then we had Prabhupada and after his departure the leaderships attempt to follow him was imitation and so many got hurt with dictorial ignorance and arrogence. It is those humble few who genuinly follow the program of chanting and Diety Worship who are the heart of ISKCON because they carry Prabupada with them.

 

A friend of mine went to an ISKCON program in Mentone (Melbourne Australia) recently and he thought it was mundane as a T.M. gathering. They preach Iskcon yet their adult kids are rude puffed up materialistic karmis - those versions of ISKCON are best avoided. I liked it when their was 6 hours of street chanting and distributing books every day. Thats the real ISKCON. You ask so many young people today who the Krishnas are, and most do not know, where as everyone new who the Krishnas where when Prabhupada was here in the early 1970s before the immitaters took over. PURITY IS THE FORCE.

 

In all fairness ISKCON will survive because it is Lord chaitanya's Movement. Those few sincere devotees will carry it to the next level and this will slowly happen as the 'old regemented proud lazy arrogent materially motivated leadership simply dies off'

 

Hare Krishna have a good day

[suchandra]

 

Agree on this subject at least, the present version of ISKCON is nothing to what it was when I joined in 1971. Back then we had Prabhupada and after his departure the leaderships attempt to follow him was imitation and so many got hurt with dictorial ignorance and arrogence. It is those humble few who genuinly follow the program of chanting and Diety Worship who are the heart of ISKCON because they carry Prabupada with them.

 

A friend of mine went to an ISKCON program in Mentone (Melbourne Australia) recently and he thought it was mundane as a T.M. gathering. They preach Iskcon yet their adult kids are rude puffed up materialistic karmis - those versions of ISKCON are best avoided. I liked it when their was 6 hours of street chanting and distributing books every day. Thats the real ISKCON. You ask so many young people today who the Krishnas are, and most do not know, where as everyone new who the Krishnas where when Prabhupada was here in the early 1970s before the immitaters took over. PURITY IS THE FORCE.

 

In all fairness ISKCON will survive because it is Lord chaitanya's Movement. Those few sincere devotees will carry it to the next level and this will slowly happen as the 'old regemented proud lazy arrogent materially motivated leadership simply dies off'

 

Hare Krishna have a good day

 

Brilliant post! " I liked it when their was 6 hours of street chanting and distributing books every day." What do we have presently, different groups of discordant Vaishnavas - a contradiction in itself, how can genuine Vaishnavas be disunited? Disunited servants of God, can these be called servants of God?

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

[Kulapavana]

"This particular year (1976) was very memorable in the sense that there was a lot of tension between the GBC and the Temple Presidents, for various reasons. One of the major reasons was that Tamal Krishna Goswami and a number of other sannyasis were essentially trying to push the householders out of the temples. They had been trying to implement all sorts of new rules and regulations based on the principle that the householders were taking too much of the temple resources for their family maintenance. It was the brahmacaries who, to a large degree, were the ones that were going out collecting every day and contributing to the temple cash flow. Many of these brahmacaries were having their minds agitated by the preaching of the sannyasis, who were, by definition, against householders. Of course, most of these sannyasis, and especially Tamal Krishna, were living a far more opulent lifestyle than most of the Temple Presidents and householders. In truth, he and others like him were a bigger financial drain on the temple than any householders who were living very austerely. Many of the householder wives, regardless if they had children, were also contributing a great deal."

 

from http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/talks/talks48.htm

[ksbh]

Yes, so your friend should just stay away from that ISKCON temple now that it is so mundane.

 

Have him go to some other temple where he can find better association.

 

 

Agree on this subject at least, the present version of ISKCON is nothing to what it was when I joined in 1971. Back then we had Prabhupada and after his departure the leaderships attempt to follow him was imitation and so many got hurt with dictorial ignorance and arrogence. It is those humble few who genuinly follow the program of chanting and Diety Worship who are the heart of ISKCON because they carry Prabupada with them.

 

A friend of mine went to an ISKCON program in Mentone (Melbourne Australia) recently and he thought it was mundane as a T.M. gathering. They preach Iskcon yet their adult kids are rude puffed up materialistic karmis - those versions of ISKCON are best avoided. I liked it when their was 6 hours of street chanting and distributing books every day. Thats the real ISKCON. You ask so many young people today who the Krishnas are, and most do not know, where as everyone new who the Krishnas where when Prabhupada was here in the early 1970s before the immitaters took over. PURITY IS THE FORCE.

 

In all fairness ISKCON will survive because it is Lord chaitanya's Movement. Those few sincere devotees will carry it to the next level and this will slowly happen as the 'old regemented proud lazy arrogent materially motivated leadership simply dies off'

 

Hare Krishna have a good day