[sri ramanuja] Please clarify my doubts (Narayana as Paramathma)

[Guest guest]

Adiyen all Bhagavatas,

 

I heard comments from some Shaivaties that ..in Bhagavata

purana..while churning the milk ocean..when Halahala appeared..all

devatas along with Vishnu went to Shiva and prayed Shiva as follows:

 

29. O lord, the five important Vedic mantras are represented by your

five faces, from which the thirty-eight most celebrated Vedic mantras

have been generated. Your Lordship, Lord Siva, you are self-

illuminated. You are directly situated as the supreme truth, known as

Paramatma.

 

31. O Lord Girisa, since the impersonal Brahman effulgence is

transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and

ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly

cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is not

understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven,

Mahendra.

 

 

And also they claimed that Vishnu also born from Soma , they

provided some Rigvedic mantras:

 

sómaH pavate janitaá matiinaáM janitaá divó janitaá pRthivyaáH

janitaágnér janitaá suúryasya janiténdrasya janitótá víSNoH

 

9.096.05 The Soma flows, the father of holy hymns, the father of

heaven, the father of the earth, the father of Agni, the father of

the sun, the fatherwho begot Indra and Vis.n.u.

 

They are claiming Shiva is supreme being, please let me know any of

you that how can I refute these people who are decreasing Narayana's

supremacy and they making there is some one else partvam then

Narayana .

 

I am eagerly waiting for your replies..

 

Adiyen

Kannan.M

[Guest guest]

Adiyen,

 

by HIS grace would like to explain that Sriman

Narayanan is the supreme paramatma of all.

In fact there are many pramAnams from Vedas,

Upanishads, Meemamsa,Nyaya darga Puranas, Smruthis

which explains very clearly that Sriman Narayanan is

Paramporul.

 

The problem with Vedas is that, it will confuses

many people who can not perform Nyaya sancharam into

it. Adiyen will try to explain the concept of Sriman

Narayanan as parathEvathai, paramporul,sarvEswaran to

all without touching Vedas.

1) While Srimad Ramanujar had some doubts, he insists

thiru-k-kachchi nambigal to clear his doubts from

Lord Varadaraja Perumal, since thiru-k-kachchi

nambigal

had bhAgyam of interacting with Lord Varadan through

archA thirumEni at Kachchi. When thiru-k-kacchi

nambigal during his aalavatta kainkaryam intimated

about the doubt that Srimad Ramanujar had, Lord

Varadan

cleard the doubts by giving 6 words as answers which

is populalry called as "Varadaraja Perumalin 6 vaar-

thaigal" through thiru-k-kachchi nambigal to

Ramanujar.

 

The first word given by Lord Himself is:

1) "ahamEva parantattvam"

 

the word itself says that, HE is ParathEvathai,param

porul, sarveswaran.

 

There is NO one, who is on par equal with him NOR

superior than him. THis is stated by the alwar as

"Oththar mikkaarai ilayaaya maamaaya...."

In Varadaraja Sthavam by KooratAlwan he states that

Sriman Narayanan is paramporul in his first slokam

 

"swathi hasthigirimasthasEkara: santhanOthu mayi

santhadham hari: |

nissamaapyadhikamapyadhaththa yam dEvamoubhanishadhI

saraswathI ||"

 

It is not that Veda or any purana is telling who is

paramporul or parathevadai. The Lord Himself had

stated as HE is Supreme , paramporul , sarvEswaran.

In Bhagavat Gita, many places, Lord Krishna explained

about HIS supremeness as Parathevathai especially in

Sarama slokam.

 

Adiyen dont find that,except Sriman Narayanan no other

thevathai had stated their supremeness (paramporul)

during VibhavAvataram(Lord Krishna through Gita) and

Archa thirumEni( Lord Varadan through thiru-k-kachchi

nambigal).

 

2) From Thirumazhisai Alwar Pasuram, first pasuram

"Naanmuganai nArayanan padaithaan

naanmuganum thaanmugamAi-ch sankaranai-th

thaanpadaithan

yaanmugamaai anthAdhi mElittu ariviththEn aalporulai

sinthAmal konminIr thErnthu "

 

Instead of explaining the above pasuram in english

adiyEN would like the person to read the vyAkyAnam

by Acharyar periyavaachan pillai which after reading

that, we can surely argue that Sriman narayanan is

paramporul.

 

Adiyen will continue in next mail through

Nampaaduvaan vaibhavam in Kaisika puraanam.

 

adiyen,

senthil

 

 

\--- kannan_mukundam <kannan_mukundam (AT) (DOT) co.in>

wrote:

 

> Adiyen all Bhagavatas,

>

> I heard comments from some Shaivaties that ..in

> Bhagavata

> purana..while churning the milk ocean..when Halahala

> appeared..all

> devatas along with Vishnu went to Shiva and prayed

> Shiva as follows:

>

> 29. O lord, the five important Vedic mantras are

> represented by your

> five faces, from which the thirty-eight most

> celebrated Vedic mantras

> have been generated. Your Lordship, Lord Siva, you

> are self-

> illuminated. You are directly situated as the

> supreme truth, known as

> Paramatma.

>

> 31. O Lord Girisa, since the impersonal Brahman

> effulgence is

> transcendental to the material modes of goodness,

> passion and

> ignorance, the various directors of this material

> world certainly

> cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is

> not

> understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or

> the King of heaven,

> Mahendra.

>

>

> And also they claimed that Vishnu also born from

> Soma , they

> provided some Rigvedic mantras:

>

> sómaH pavate janitaá matiinaáM janitaá divó janitaá

> pRthivyaáH

> janitaágnér janitaá suúryasya janiténdrasya janitótá

> víSNoH

>

> 9.096.05 The Soma flows, the father of holy hymns,

> the father of

> heaven, the father of the earth, the father of Agni,

> the father of

> the sun, the fatherwho begot Indra and Vis.n.u.

>

> They are claiming Shiva is supreme being, please

> let me know any of

> you that how can I refute these people who are

> decreasing Narayana's

> supremacy and they making there is some one else

> partvam then

> Narayana .

>

> I am eagerly waiting for your replies..

>

> Adiyen

> Kannan.M

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

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India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

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[Guest guest]

Shrimathe RamanujAya namaha|

 

In continuation with the previous mail on Sriman

Narayanan as Paramathma, adiyEn would like to throw

more light on that based on the NambAduvAn vaibhavam

which is well explained in Kaisika Puranam.

 

Dear Bhagavathas,

 

NambAduvAn was a devotee of Thiru-k-kurungudi

emperumAn. During every ekAdasi, he used to go up to

temple and hymns some pasuram, performs mangalAsasanam

 

to emperuman and will return to his house happily. One

day when he was on the way to temple, caught up by a

brahmarakshasu (an evil soul) and it told him that, it

wants him as food.

 

NambAduvAn said that, he will come back after reciting

 

some pasurams ( NambAduvAn sings using Kaisika Pann),

then it can took him as food.

 

But brahmarakshasu was not in a position to leave

NambAduvAn, because it felts that he may escape. Hence

NambAduvAn started promising to brahmarakshasu that,

if

he didnt turned back after completing mangalAsAsanam

to emperuman he may became that, or he may get the

pApam like that, etc.., etc.,, On hearing all those,

still brahmarakshasu was not in a position to leave

nambAduvAn to perform mangalAsAsanam to emperumAn.

 

Now, NambAduvAn promised that, "IF ANYONE SAYS THAT

LORD SRIMAN NARAYANAN IS EQUIVALENT TO, or ON PAR

WITH, or INFERIOR TO SOMEONE ELSE, then WHAT THE

PAAPAM and NARAKAM( hell) that HE WILL GET, I WILL

ALSO GET THE SAME, if i dont returned back to you"

 

Once on hearing this, the brahmarakshasu IMMEDIATELY

released the hands of NambAduvAN and said that,

"IN THIS LOKAM, THERE IS NO SIN GREATER THAN THIS!"

 

>From the above NambAduvAn vaibhavam (Kaisika Puranam,

which still takes place in thiru-k-kurungudi divya

desam every year during Kaisika ekadasi festival),

it's clear that EVEN BRAHMARAKSHASU knows that Lord

Sriman

Narayanan is paramAtma, paramporul. There is no one

who is on par with, or equivalent or superior than

HIM!!

 

NOW ITS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER, HOW MUCH WE

UNDERSTOOD

AND BELIEVE THAT HE IS PARAMATMA !!!

 

adiyEn,

senthil.

 

Note: The next day after Kaisika ekAdasi day, early

morning Namperumal (Sri Rangam) will enter into

santanu mandapam with Karpoora PadiyEtra sEvai which

is coming very shortly this year.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear bhagavathAs,

 

adiyEn will try to prove that Sriman Narayanan

is parantattvam by using paasurams from

Thirumazhisai Alwar who is best to condemn

all other sAshtrAs.

 

adiyEn will now try to give some pasurams which

conforms the supremeness, parantattvam of Sriman

Narayanan.

 

1)In pasuram 53: (nAnmugam thiruvanthAthi)

 

“...................- pollAtha

thEvaraith thEvarallAraith thiruvillAth

thEvaraith thErElmin thEvu.”

 

In the above pasuram, Alwar states that, he wont

consider others as “dEvar” or “deivam”, because

they dont have any sampandham with Sri Devi Naachiyar.

 

The person who had sampandham with Sri Mahalaksmi

is none other than Sriman Narayanan, is considered

to be “deivam” or “dEvar”. Others including

“brahma-rudrAdhigal” aren't considered as

“deivam or dEvar”.

 

Now, the saivites starts refusing Alwar by saying

that, “You state that, only Narayanan is deivam,

others aren't. Then the sAshtrAs says that, your

lord is one of person who born along with Indran as

UpEndran during Vaama Avataram, and one among

trimurtis “brahma-vishnu-rudran”. Then the dosha's

for the brahma-rudrAdhi's wont comes to your lord

also? Because, vishnu is also one dEvar among the

brahma-rudrAdhi's.”

 

To this question, now Thirumazhisai Alwar refutes

clearly in his 54 Pasuram in nAnmugam thiruvanthAthi.

 

2.paasuram 54

 

“thEvarAi niRkumath-thEvum ath-thEvaril

moovarAi niRkum muthupunarppum – yaavarAi

niRkindrathellAm nedumAlen rOrAthAr

karginRa thellAm kadai.”

 

The alwar says that “even though HE born as brother

to Indran and stood as one dEvar among trimurti's,

it is true that HE is antharyAmi to brhama-rudhrAdhi's

which is explained by Vishnu Puraanam as

 

“srushtisdhithyanthakaranIm brahmavishnusivAthmikAm |

sa samj~nam yaathi bhagavAnEga Eva janArthdhana: ||

“

[Vishnu Puranam 1.2-66 ]

 

muthpunarppum – old avathAram of Sriman Narayanan;

muthu – old ; punarppu – sankalpam ;

It means that it's an avataram due to HIS sankalpam.

Not like others as due to their karmam, they took

birth

which is stated in Purusha Sooktam as follows:

 

“thripAthUrdhva udhaith purusha: padhOsyEhAbhavAth

puna:”

[Purusha Sooktam]

 

Even in Gita Lord Krishna says that HE took birth due

to HIS sankalpa roopa gna~nam. “sambhavAmyAthmamAyayA”

 

Eventhough HE stood one among trimUrti's, HE is none

other than avatAram of Parama Purushan Sriman

Narayanan.

 

In next word - “yaavarAi nirkinrathellAm” -alwar

proves

that as a Parantattvam, HE stood to withhold all the

chethanAs' and sarva pathArthangal like dEvar,

manushyar, thiryak, sthAvaram, etc., Apart from HIM,

emperuman is in all other things which is different

from HIS roopam, qualities, etc., through “vyApakam”

HE gives roopam, naamam to all those things which

different from HIM. HE only born as Upendran, Vishnu

among trimurti's.

 

1.thEvarAi niRkumath-thEvum – born as Upendran,

brother to Indran during Vaamana Avataram

 

2.moovarAi niRkum muthupunarppum – old avataram of

Sriman Narayanan as Vishnu among trimurti's

 

3.yaavarAi niRkindrathellAm – all other things which

 

got its saththai, roopam, naamam, et.c,

 

4.nedumAlE -- all the above are only Sriman

Narayanan, sarvEshwaran, paramporul;

 

Even though HE stood as one thEvar among Indran,

eventhough HE is one among trimurti's, ---- HE is none

 

other than the sarvEshwaran Sriman Narayanan, who

withstands in all chethanAchEshtithangal to provide

saththai, roopam, naamam etc.,

 

5. enrOrAthAr karginRa thellAm kadai -- If you don't

know this, then what you have learned so far is waste.

 

 

Thus through the above paasuram, Thirumazhisai alwar

clearly proves the parantattvam of Sriman Narayanan

even though HE stood as thEvar one among trimurti's.

 

This paasuram is to CONDEMN those, who think that

HE is one among trimurti's and equivalent to others.

 

adiyEn,

senthil.b

 

Note: Suggestions and comments are Welcome!!!!!

 

 

 

>

> \--- kannan_mukundam <kannan_mukundam (AT) (DOT) co.in>

> wrote:

>

> > Adiyen all Bhagavatas,

> >

> > I heard comments from some Shaivaties that ..in

> > Bhagavata

> > purana..while churning the milk ocean..when

> Halahala

> > appeared..all

> > devatas along with Vishnu went to Shiva and prayed

> > Shiva as follows:

> >

> > 29. O lord, the five important Vedic mantras are

> > represented by your

> > five faces, from which the thirty-eight most

> > celebrated Vedic mantras

> > have been generated. Your Lordship, Lord Siva, you

> > are self-

> > illuminated. You are directly situated as the

> > supreme truth, known as

> > Paramatma.

> >

> > 31. O Lord Girisa, since the impersonal Brahman

> > effulgence is

> > transcendental to the material modes of goodness,

> > passion and

> > ignorance, the various directors of this material

> > world certainly

> > cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It

> is

> > not

> > understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or

> > the King of heaven,

> > Mahendra.

> >

> >

> > And also they claimed that Vishnu also born from

> > Soma , they

> > provided some Rigvedic mantras:

> >

> > sómaH pavate janitaá matiinaáM janitaá divó

> janitaá

> > pRthivyaáH

> > janitaágnér janitaá suúryasya janiténdrasya

> janitótá

> > víSNoH

> >

> > 9.096.05 The Soma flows, the father of holy hymns,

> > the father of

> > heaven, the father of the earth, the father of

> Agni,

> > the father of

> > the sun, the fatherwho begot Indra and Vis.n.u.

> >

> > They are claiming Shiva is supreme being, please

> > let me know any of

> > you that how can I refute these people who are

> > decreasing Narayana's

> > supremacy and they making there is some one else

> > partvam then

> > Narayana .

> >

> > I am eagerly waiting for your replies..

> >

> > Adiyen

> > Kannan.M

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

________

> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn

> something new

> http://in.answers./

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

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India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

[m.vivek madabushi]

 

Adiyen all Bhagavatas,

 

I heard comments from some Shaivaties that ..in Bhagavata

purana..while churning the milk ocean..when Halahala appeared..all

devatas along with Vishnu went to Shiva and prayed Shiva as follows:

 

29. O lord, the five important Vedic mantras are represented by your

five faces, from which the thirty-eight most celebrated Vedic mantras

have been generated. Your Lordship, Lord Siva, you are self-

illuminated. You are directly situated as the supreme truth, known as

Paramatma.

 

31. O Lord Girisa, since the impersonal Brahman effulgence is

transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and

ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly

cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is not

understandable even to Lord Brahma, Lord Visnu or the King of heaven,

Mahendra.

 

 

And also they claimed that Vishnu also born from Soma , they

provided some Rigvedic mantras:

 

sómaH pavate janitaá matiinaáM janitaá divó janitaá pRthivyaáH

janitaágnér janitaá suúryasya janiténdrasya janitótá víSNoH

 

9.096.05 The Soma flows, the father of holy hymns, the father of

heaven, the father of the earth, the father of Agni, the father of

the sun, the fatherwho begot Indra and Vis.n.u.

 

They are claiming Shiva is supreme being, please let me know any of

you that how can I refute these people who are decreasing Narayana's

supremacy and they making there is some one else partvam then

Narayana .

 

I am eagerly waiting for your replies..

 

Adiyen

Kannan.M

[m.vivek madabushi]

the rigveda mantra says that when the milky ocean was churned it was vishnu who actually drank the poison making siva a mere vessele for holding the poison.

 

 

kesu vishashya patrena yat redrena pibata sah.

 

thus it was not siva but vishnu who actually drank the poison.

[m.vivek madabushi]

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">OM</st1:place> NAMO NARAYANAYA

Now iam going to reveal the truth about LORD NARAYANA

A poet devotee seeks to establish that his Ishta(chosen ideal )MAHAVISHNU is the supreme being(paramporul) and that siva and other gods are only his emanations.He marshals many arguments based on puranas and mantra sastra for this and finally to clinch his argument,he quotes the authority of a non-sectarian philosophers like Sankaracharya,

who accepted the superiority of MAHAVISHNU by writing a commentry on

VISHNU SAHASRANAMA in preference to sahasranama of siva and other

gods.

The most interesting part of the argument is the reply with which he forestalls the possible objection that VEDA VYASA,who is

traditionally accepted as the author of all the puranas,depicts VISHNU

as inferior to SIVA in SKANDA PURANA AND SIVA PURANA and describes

siva as the supreme being such as ARUNACHALA,NATARAJA,PARAMPORUL

ETC.He contends that these arguments are only to be taken as ARTHAVADAS or EUOLOGIES with a contrary meaning or VIRUDDHA-

VADA, that is,when siva is praised or glorified,it is only to show indirectly

the glory of vishnu whose aspect siva is.These scriptures which describes

siva as the SUPREME BEING OR PARAMPORUL are meant only for the

votaries of siva who have to obtain their salvations(MOKSHAM) through the faith in siva,so the faith in siva is to be strengthened and made unswerving,

and for this HIS exaltation over all other gods like VISHNU is necessary.

In other words the one redeeming power,whom saivas worship as SIVA

is really vishnu only and therefore all the praises bestowed on SIVA

through down-grading vishnu,are really the indirect praises of MAHA-VISHNU

This argument gives the clue to the real meaning of sectarian theologies that have come under the influence of the vedantic

thought.The VEDANTA maintains that the one SUPREME BEING(MAHA-VISHNU) approaches a votary in whatever form the votary conceives

HIM and so every one of those forms can be called the SUPREME BEING

himself.For those who can appreciate this liberal position,every sectarian

theology is alike.But many people cannot distinguish the metaphysical

'ALL COMPREHENDING ONE' from the mathematical one,which is only the

one distinguished from every other.So they raise the slogan that there is no god but god(meaning their deity) and look down upon all religionists

other than theirs as worshipping a false god.Such exclusiveness is needed

to strengthen faith at a certain stage of man's development,but if he is not acquainted with the broad vedantic view,there is a grave danger of faith

degenerating into fanaticism.A faith,eventhough exclusive,is valid and healthy only to the extent it recognises the propriety and validity of

another man's right to have his own faith,and it is doubtful whether this

kind of healthy faith can be achieved without apprehending the vedantic

idea of spiritual truth as the 'ALL COMPREHENDING ONE' in contrast to

the mathematical truth as the exclusive one.