Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Dear Prafulla, Going back to R.G. Rao, the pithy, difficult to understand text and writer (like most Indian writers from the 30-80s, except a few, like Sri Raman, Sri Krishnamurti, Sri P.S. Sastry, Sri Santhanam, Sri Khareghat, Sri Gopal Krishna Rao, 'Meena', Sri Shrimali, Sri Khot, and Mr. K.N. Rao who was just making his Era-changing presence known! And a few others after him, but after 80s!!), which is not surprising (the characteristic impatient restlessness of contemporary readers of jyotish texts), this Rao I am talking about attributed the heart line to jupiter and head line to mars. He gave some indicators for retrogression of these planets in palms and association with rahu etc. Palm is a full mystery in its own but if connected to ONE AND ONLY TRUTH, both palmistry and astrology must have a common ground, a common language or root! It is my naive belief, always has been. One or two charts or palms may not corroborate just as we have seen endlessly in the astro-scene. Someone posts an observation and immediately afterwards someone posts an exception. I often smile when that happens, NOT because the original poster was proved wrong, because oftentimes I am too, whether I posted or merely observed the same or not, but because it fuels hope into my core belief -- that even if 75% predictions come true and indicate some incontrovertible and unavoidable karma and DESTINY, these exceptions remind us that there is hope, there is freedom of choice. To the tune of 25%! HEY, 1 in 4 is not bad odds! Lord is merciful, for if HE is indeed as as powerful and OMNIPOTENT as depicted in nearly all religions -- then he is a KIND parent. For HE/SHE allows us a 1 in 4 chance to win. Just like the parent who fights all fiercely against us but we just know that we would not win if HE did not let us. Almost like some very kind and nurturing big brothers or sisters, some of us may have been fortunate to have experienced as we were growing up. Anyways -- the quest continues -- at least for some of us who haven't called it 'CAMP-TIME' yet, hopefully! Ranjan , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Maniv > > I observed these, in my early days of vedic astrology (where as I > started studying palmistry much earlier). Yes, recalling few charts - > Mars / moon were more into 4/7/10 aspect (in few cases moon was not > aspecting mars), or mars being in cancer as well. I am sure, there > must be other influences as well (like mercury / jupiter etc) on > either of the planets; but mars aspect upon moon was prominent. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > , "maniv1321" <maniv1321@> > wrote: > > > > > > Prafullabhai > > > > The simian line certainly indicates an extreme personality - the > > word that springs to mind is intensity. Either the thinking process > > is dominated by emotions or the emotions are dominated by the > > rational faculty of the mind. > > > > It interesting that you attribute the planetary influences to > > Moon/Mars. Moon definitely represents emotions and their source (4th > > house/heart) but also the mind. So in a sense an affliction to the > > Moon, as you mention, should be present. Mars would represent > > logic/coldness and its debilitation in the emotional sign > > representing the heart (Cancer) further adds weight to it being the > > anti-thesis of the issues of the heart. > > > > In your observations has Mars been close to the 4th house/Cancer? > > > > Regards, > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear maniv, > > > > > > It makes a native using either heart or head (on extreme extent) > > for > > > his matters. So many a times - people may find him very > > > materialistic / ruthless / cold or highly emotional person. > > > > > > While studying palmistry long back, I observed this behaviour in > > lot > > > many people. You may also observe interesting trend for such > > natives. > > > If you see their parents / grand parents' chart - then you will > > also > > > observe the similar line (heart line dropping into head line, while > > > head line being straight across the palm). > > > > > > In my view / observation - mutual relation of mars / moon is > > indicated > > > in such natives. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "maniv1321" <maniv1321@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > I have often read of palmists that can draw an accurate kundali > > simply > > > > by reading the palm. > > > > > > > > In this context, I was interested to learn about what > > indications in > > > > the birth cart can be linked to a simian line (joining of the > > head and > > > > heart line). > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji, Yes - I too found Shri RG Rao's books, bit difficult to decrypt. Recently, I was just reading "Transit of Planets On Thy Birth Chart" - by RG Rao and event that too, bit complex. The complexities grow, as he illustrates the charts, without providing birth data. But his analysis are good pointers for interpretations (that is how, I look at it). Compared to this, Late Santhanam's notes in Devakeralam is relatively easier to read and decrypt. Coming to palm - there must be certain corelation with native's chart. Sometime back, I met an astrologer - who could make the chart from the thumb impression. I will keep your pointers (on Jupiter (Rx) and rahu) for simian line, in mind. Yes, origin of heart line from jupiter (perhaps for exaltation of jupiter in 4th house) has its significance in the palm. regards / Prafulla Gang , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Prafulla, > > Going back to R.G. Rao, the pithy, difficult to understand text and > writer (like most Indian writers from the 30-80s, except a few, like > Sri Raman, Sri Krishnamurti, Sri P.S. Sastry, Sri Santhanam, Sri > Khareghat, Sri Gopal Krishna Rao, 'Meena', Sri Shrimali, Sri Khot, > and Mr. K.N. Rao who was just making his Era-changing presence known! > And a few others after him, but after 80s!!), which is not surprising > (the characteristic impatient restlessness of contemporary readers of > jyotish texts), this Rao I am talking about attributed the heart line > to jupiter and head line to mars. He gave some indicators for > retrogression of these planets in palms and association with rahu etc. > > Palm is a full mystery in its own but if connected to ONE AND ONLY > TRUTH, both palmistry and astrology must have a common ground, a > common language or root! It is my naive belief, always has been. One > or two charts or palms may not corroborate just as we have seen > endlessly in the astro-scene. Someone posts an observation and > immediately afterwards someone posts an exception. I often smile when > that happens, NOT because the original poster was proved wrong, > because oftentimes I am too, whether I posted or merely observed the > same or not, but because it fuels hope into my core belief -- that > even if 75% predictions come true and indicate some incontrovertible > and unavoidable karma and DESTINY, these exceptions remind us that > there is hope, there is freedom of choice. To the tune of 25%! HEY, 1 > in 4 is not bad odds! Lord is merciful, for if HE is indeed as as > powerful and OMNIPOTENT as depicted in nearly all religions -- then > he is a KIND parent. For HE/SHE allows us a 1 in 4 chance to win. > Just like the parent who fights all fiercely against us but we just > know that we would not win if HE did not let us. Almost like some > very kind and nurturing big brothers or sisters, some of us may have > been fortunate to have experienced as we were growing up. > > Anyways -- the quest continues -- at least for some of us who haven't > called it 'CAMP-TIME' yet, hopefully! > > Ranjan > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Maniv > > > > I observed these, in my early days of vedic astrology (where as I > > started studying palmistry much earlier). Yes, recalling few > charts - > > Mars / moon were more into 4/7/10 aspect (in few cases moon was not > > aspecting mars), or mars being in cancer as well. I am sure, there > > must be other influences as well (like mercury / jupiter etc) on > > either of the planets; but mars aspect upon moon was prominent. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > , "maniv1321" <maniv1321@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Prafullabhai > > > > > > The simian line certainly indicates an extreme personality - the > > > word that springs to mind is intensity. Either the thinking > process > > > is dominated by emotions or the emotions are dominated by the > > > rational faculty of the mind. > > > > > > It interesting that you attribute the planetary influences to > > > Moon/Mars. Moon definitely represents emotions and their source > (4th > > > house/heart) but also the mind. So in a sense an affliction to > the > > > Moon, as you mention, should be present. Mars would represent > > > logic/coldness and its debilitation in the emotional sign > > > representing the heart (Cancer) further adds weight to it being > the > > > anti-thesis of the issues of the heart. > > > > > > In your observations has Mars been close to the 4th house/Cancer? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear maniv, > > > > > > > > It makes a native using either heart or head (on extreme > extent) > > > for > > > > his matters. So many a times - people may find him very > > > > materialistic / ruthless / cold or highly emotional person. > > > > > > > > While studying palmistry long back, I observed this behaviour > in > > > lot > > > > many people. You may also observe interesting trend for such > > > natives. > > > > If you see their parents / grand parents' chart - then you will > > > also > > > > observe the similar line (heart line dropping into head line, > while > > > > head line being straight across the palm). > > > > > > > > In my view / observation - mutual relation of mars / moon is > > > indicated > > > > in such natives. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "maniv1321" > <maniv1321@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > I have often read of palmists that can draw an accurate > kundali > > > simply > > > > > by reading the palm. > > > > > > > > > > In this context, I was interested to learn about what > > > indications in > > > > > the birth cart can be linked to a simian line (joining of the > > > head and > > > > > heart line). > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Dear Prafulla, For some reason, I have found most jyotish writers rather hesitant to share their experiences. Except BV Raman ji! Even KN Raoji, beautiful soul that he is, kind of pulls back! Maybe it is the Indian teacher in him that makes us work harder and actually work out the charts that he boldly challenges us in his books to examine. And when we examine ... Much of jyotish as revealed has been somewhat of a mumbo-jumbo mostly because of poor expression (even the hindi translations! No excuse there of trying to explain in a foreign language, right?) but also because maybe it is some kind of divine plan! I personally would like to believe that all of them KNOW, even if they claim that the other guy does not, openly or in private emails! So what do we do, stuck in the desert of sands with pyramids and sphinxes of older realities, older magnificient cultures in our direct view all around do? We keep walking, for staying put will kill us for sure and would not get us closer to the oasis! In the meantime, we must make sure that even if we die, the next generation is produced and made to keep going! Kind of like that walt disney movie -- Land Before Time! About dinosaurs some would say, but really about LIFE! RR , "Prafulla Gang" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > Yes - I too found Shri RG Rao's books, bit difficult to decrypt. > Recently, I was just reading "Transit of Planets On Thy Birth Chart" - > by RG Rao and event that too, bit complex. The complexities grow, as > he illustrates the charts, without providing birth data. But his > analysis are good pointers for interpretations (that is how, I look at > it). Compared to this, Late Santhanam's notes in Devakeralam is > relatively easier to read and decrypt. > > Coming to palm - there must be certain corelation with native's chart. > Sometime back, I met an astrologer - who could make the chart from the > thumb impression. > > I will keep your pointers (on Jupiter (Rx) and rahu) for simian line, > in mind. Yes, origin of heart line from jupiter (perhaps for > exaltation of jupiter in 4th house) has its significance in the palm. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > Going back to R.G. Rao, the pithy, difficult to understand text and > > writer (like most Indian writers from the 30-80s, except a few, like > > Sri Raman, Sri Krishnamurti, Sri P.S. Sastry, Sri Santhanam, Sri > > Khareghat, Sri Gopal Krishna Rao, 'Meena', Sri Shrimali, Sri Khot, > > and Mr. K.N. Rao who was just making his Era-changing presence known! > > And a few others after him, but after 80s!!), which is not surprising > > (the characteristic impatient restlessness of contemporary readers of > > jyotish texts), this Rao I am talking about attributed the heart line > > to jupiter and head line to mars. He gave some indicators for > > retrogression of these planets in palms and association with rahu etc. > > > > Palm is a full mystery in its own but if connected to ONE AND ONLY > > TRUTH, both palmistry and astrology must have a common ground, a > > common language or root! It is my naive belief, always has been. One > > or two charts or palms may not corroborate just as we have seen > > endlessly in the astro-scene. Someone posts an observation and > > immediately afterwards someone posts an exception. I often smile when > > that happens, NOT because the original poster was proved wrong, > > because oftentimes I am too, whether I posted or merely observed the > > same or not, but because it fuels hope into my core belief -- that > > even if 75% predictions come true and indicate some incontrovertible > > and unavoidable karma and DESTINY, these exceptions remind us that > > there is hope, there is freedom of choice. To the tune of 25%! HEY, 1 > > in 4 is not bad odds! Lord is merciful, for if HE is indeed as as > > powerful and OMNIPOTENT as depicted in nearly all religions -- then > > he is a KIND parent. For HE/SHE allows us a 1 in 4 chance to win. > > Just like the parent who fights all fiercely against us but we just > > know that we would not win if HE did not let us. Almost like some > > very kind and nurturing big brothers or sisters, some of us may have > > been fortunate to have experienced as we were growing up. > > > > Anyways -- the quest continues -- at least for some of us who haven't > > called it 'CAMP-TIME' yet, hopefully! > > > > Ranjan > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Maniv > > > > > > I observed these, in my early days of vedic astrology (where as I > > > started studying palmistry much earlier). Yes, recalling few > > charts - > > > Mars / moon were more into 4/7/10 aspect (in few cases moon was not > > > aspecting mars), or mars being in cancer as well. I am sure, there > > > must be other influences as well (like mercury / jupiter etc) on > > > either of the planets; but mars aspect upon moon was prominent. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > , "maniv1321" <maniv1321@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Prafullabhai > > > > > > > > The simian line certainly indicates an extreme personality - the > > > > word that springs to mind is intensity. Either the thinking > > process > > > > is dominated by emotions or the emotions are dominated by the > > > > rational faculty of the mind. > > > > > > > > It interesting that you attribute the planetary influences to > > > > Moon/Mars. Moon definitely represents emotions and their source > > (4th > > > > house/heart) but also the mind. So in a sense an affliction to > > the > > > > Moon, as you mention, should be present. Mars would represent > > > > logic/coldness and its debilitation in the emotional sign > > > > representing the heart (Cancer) further adds weight to it being > > the > > > > anti-thesis of the issues of the heart. > > > > > > > > In your observations has Mars been close to the 4th house/Cancer? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear maniv, > > > > > > > > > > It makes a native using either heart or head (on extreme > > extent) > > > > for > > > > > his matters. So many a times - people may find him very > > > > > materialistic / ruthless / cold or highly emotional person. > > > > > > > > > > While studying palmistry long back, I observed this behaviour > > in > > > > lot > > > > > many people. You may also observe interesting trend for such > > > > natives. > > > > > If you see their parents / grand parents' chart - then you will > > > > also > > > > > observe the similar line (heart line dropping into head line, > > while > > > > > head line being straight across the palm). > > > > > > > > > > In my view / observation - mutual relation of mars / moon is > > > > indicated > > > > > in such natives. > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > , "maniv1321" > > <maniv1321@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have often read of palmists that can draw an accurate > > kundali > > > > simply > > > > > > by reading the palm. > > > > > > > > > > > > In this context, I was interested to learn about what > > > > indications in > > > > > > the birth cart can be linked to a simian line (joining of the > > > > head and > > > > > > heart line). > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Dear Ranjan ji, Yes, you are right - very few share their knowledge. Amongst writers of current century (or say late 90's) - Shri VK Choudhry, Shri Sanjay Rath and few more - have been quite vocal and participative. They shared their conviction, without really pushing people to accept it. If I recall, on another jyotish forum - one of the member shared shri KN Rao's interaction with him; wherein Shri KN Rao explicitly refused to share secrets lately, for the risk of getting them into wrong hands. This trend is emerging for many reasons including - jytoish being perceived as quick mode to make money across the country, by jyotishis. So- focus on research, astro data driven pattern analysis etc are fading. But this is more around internet jyotishis and big cities based jyotishis. Old ones, in interiors of the country - are quite open to discuss many secrets of astrology (more of parampara) and explain the clues. Unfortunately, they are not yet exposed to published / cyber media. In my constrained journey of jyotish, I found those downtown astrologers, as best source of learning. and you will be surprised to know, that they are vary rationalized for remedial pursuits (no quick fix). May be, for the space they live in or their clientsa live in - life is bit slow paced as yet. regards / Prafulla Gang , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Prafulla, > > For some reason, I have found most jyotish writers rather hesitant to > share their experiences. Except BV Raman ji! > > Even KN Raoji, beautiful soul that he is, kind of pulls back! Maybe > it is the Indian teacher in him that makes us work harder and > actually work out the charts that he boldly challenges us in his > books to examine. And when we examine ... > > Much of jyotish as revealed has been somewhat of a mumbo-jumbo mostly > because of poor expression (even the hindi translations! No excuse > there of trying to explain in a foreign language, right?) but also > because maybe it is some kind of divine plan! > > I personally would like to believe that all of them KNOW, even if > they claim that the other guy does not, openly or in private emails! > > So what do we do, stuck in the desert of sands with pyramids and > sphinxes of older realities, older magnificient cultures in our > direct view all around do? > > We keep walking, for staying put will kill us for sure and would not > get us closer to the oasis! In the meantime, we must make sure that > even if we die, the next generation is produced and made to keep > going! > > Kind of like that walt disney movie -- Land Before Time! About > dinosaurs some would say, but really about LIFE! > > RR > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ranjan ji, > > > > Yes - I too found Shri RG Rao's books, bit difficult to decrypt. > > Recently, I was just reading "Transit of Planets On Thy Birth > Chart" - > > by RG Rao and event that too, bit complex. The complexities grow, as > > he illustrates the charts, without providing birth data. But his > > analysis are good pointers for interpretations (that is how, I look > at > > it). Compared to this, Late Santhanam's notes in Devakeralam is > > relatively easier to read and decrypt. > > > > Coming to palm - there must be certain corelation with native's > chart. > > Sometime back, I met an astrologer - who could make the chart from > the > > thumb impression. > > > > I will keep your pointers (on Jupiter (Rx) and rahu) for simian > line, > > in mind. Yes, origin of heart line from jupiter (perhaps for > > exaltation of jupiter in 4th house) has its significance in the > palm. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla, > > > > > > Going back to R.G. Rao, the pithy, difficult to understand text > and > > > writer (like most Indian writers from the 30-80s, except a few, > like > > > Sri Raman, Sri Krishnamurti, Sri P.S. Sastry, Sri Santhanam, Sri > > > Khareghat, Sri Gopal Krishna Rao, 'Meena', Sri Shrimali, Sri > Khot, > > > and Mr. K.N. Rao who was just making his Era-changing presence > known! > > > And a few others after him, but after 80s!!), which is not > surprising > > > (the characteristic impatient restlessness of contemporary > readers of > > > jyotish texts), this Rao I am talking about attributed the heart > line > > > to jupiter and head line to mars. He gave some indicators for > > > retrogression of these planets in palms and association with rahu > etc. > > > > > > Palm is a full mystery in its own but if connected to ONE AND > ONLY > > > TRUTH, both palmistry and astrology must have a common ground, a > > > common language or root! It is my naive belief, always has been. > One > > > or two charts or palms may not corroborate just as we have seen > > > endlessly in the astro-scene. Someone posts an observation and > > > immediately afterwards someone posts an exception. I often smile > when > > > that happens, NOT because the original poster was proved wrong, > > > because oftentimes I am too, whether I posted or merely observed > the > > > same or not, but because it fuels hope into my core belief -- > that > > > even if 75% predictions come true and indicate some > incontrovertible > > > and unavoidable karma and DESTINY, these exceptions remind us > that > > > there is hope, there is freedom of choice. To the tune of 25%! > HEY, 1 > > > in 4 is not bad odds! Lord is merciful, for if HE is indeed as as > > > powerful and OMNIPOTENT as depicted in nearly all religions -- > then > > > he is a KIND parent. For HE/SHE allows us a 1 in 4 chance to win. > > > Just like the parent who fights all fiercely against us but we > just > > > know that we would not win if HE did not let us. Almost like some > > > very kind and nurturing big brothers or sisters, some of us may > have > > > been fortunate to have experienced as we were growing up. > > > > > > Anyways -- the quest continues -- at least for some of us who > haven't > > > called it 'CAMP-TIME' yet, hopefully! > > > > > > Ranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Maniv > > > > > > > > I observed these, in my early days of vedic astrology (where as > I > > > > started studying palmistry much earlier). Yes, recalling few > > > charts - > > > > Mars / moon were more into 4/7/10 aspect (in few cases moon was > not > > > > aspecting mars), or mars being in cancer as well. I am sure, > there > > > > must be other influences as well (like mercury / jupiter etc) on > > > > either of the planets; but mars aspect upon moon was prominent. > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > , "maniv1321" > <maniv1321@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prafullabhai > > > > > > > > > > The simian line certainly indicates an extreme personality - > the > > > > > word that springs to mind is intensity. Either the thinking > > > process > > > > > is dominated by emotions or the emotions are dominated by the > > > > > rational faculty of the mind. > > > > > > > > > > It interesting that you attribute the planetary influences to > > > > > Moon/Mars. Moon definitely represents emotions and their > source > > > (4th > > > > > house/heart) but also the mind. So in a sense an affliction > to > > > the > > > > > Moon, as you mention, should be present. Mars would represent > > > > > logic/coldness and its debilitation in the emotional sign > > > > > representing the heart (Cancer) further adds weight to it > being > > > the > > > > > anti-thesis of the issues of the heart. > > > > > > > > > > In your observations has Mars been close to the 4th > house/Cancer? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Prafulla Gang" > > > > > <jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear maniv, > > > > > > > > > > > > It makes a native using either heart or head (on extreme > > > extent) > > > > > for > > > > > > his matters. So many a times - people may find him very > > > > > > materialistic / ruthless / cold or highly emotional person. > > > > > > > > > > > > While studying palmistry long back, I observed this > behaviour > > > in > > > > > lot > > > > > > many people. You may also observe interesting trend for > such > > > > > natives. > > > > > > If you see their parents / grand parents' chart - then you > will > > > > > also > > > > > > observe the similar line (heart line dropping into head > line, > > > while > > > > > > head line being straight across the palm). > > > > > > > > > > > > In my view / observation - mutual relation of mars / moon > is > > > > > indicated > > > > > > in such natives. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > , "maniv1321" > > > <maniv1321@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have often read of palmists that can draw an accurate > > > kundali > > > > > simply > > > > > > > by reading the palm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this context, I was interested to learn about what > > > > > indications in > > > > > > > the birth cart can be linked to a simian line (joining of > the > > > > > head and > > > > > > > heart line). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.