Reagrding qi gong or chi gong

September 13, 2006

Hi All,

Lately I have come in contact with a lady, who says that her husband was a

master of "qi gong" and used it to do harm.

Now all of my understanding was that these breathing exercises (Like

Pranayama) couldnt be used for doing any harm but only for spiritual

upliftment. But it seems like I was wrong.

Does any folks here have any idea about this..? Mahahradanatha? Anyone else?

--

Thanks

Dp

[The force is feminine in nature]

September 14, 2006

, "Dhirendra Pal Singh"

<dpal.singh wrote: Hi All, :Lately I have come in contact with

a lady, who says that her husband was a master of "qi gong" and used

it to do harm. Now all of my understanding was that these breathing

exercises (Like Pranayama) couldnt be used for doing any harm but

only for spiritual upliftment. But it seems like I was wrong.

Does any folks here have any idea about this..? Mahahradanatha?

Anyone else?

Okay, im not an expert in this, but its worth the try. Personally I

believe anything can be use to either help or harm people. Fire can

be good it can be also bad when it runs out of control. So the same

with 'qi gong'. From my understanding 'qi gong' comprises of slow

moving exercise [ somewhat yoga like but very control ], self

massage, breathing techniques, meditation and all these supposedly

have healing or to strengthen the mind and body. Its all abt

harnessing the "qi" in the body.

In chinese terminology Qi does not only means air and respiration

but its the 'vital energy' or 'vital force'. The Chinese Traditional

medicine [TCM] associate life as the Qi force. Thus the term "to

live is to have Q1 and to die is not to have Q1"

I remember reading several articles about a research done by Dr Yan

Xin and several chinese scientists from Beijing University,

Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Science and

several other leading insitution with regards to Qi gong. Some of

their experiments include :

1] Change Water Molscular Structure

2] Change Cellular Structure

3] Change DNA structure.

Another interesting article : Qigong can increase the order of human

body functions. Why is that qigong can increase the order of human

body functions and cellular functions? The key lies in qigong's

abililty to help the human body absorb external energy. The'Qi' in

qigong is considered to be a kind of biological energy that is

related to human life information.

There's a whole lot of information out there abt qi gong. Pay

particular attention to the research carried out by the Scientist in

China.

I could equate a "qi gong" master to a "tantrik". This is my own

personal opinion.

September 14, 2006

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy

wrote:

>

> , "Dhirendra Pal Singh"

> <dpal.singh@> wrote: Hi All, :Lately I have come in contact with

> a lady, who says that her husband was a master of "qi gong" and

used

> it to do harm. Now all of my understanding was that these breathing

> exercises (Like Pranayama) couldnt be used for doing any harm but

> only for spiritual upliftment. But it seems like I was wrong.

>

> Does any folks here have any idea about this..? Mahahradanatha?

> Anyone else?

>

Yes the lady is correct Chi gong can be used to harm since it is

only part of a much larger body of practices and teachings known as

wai dan, = "outer elixir of immortality practices" working from

outward practice to produce inward skills, and nai dan working from

inward skills to produce outward effects = "the Inner elixir of

Immortality practice" the situation is far more complicated and chi

gong may in its taoist asian form even involve calling on Gods and

Masters tracing yantras using mudras and mantras and raising spirits.

The situation is similar to Yoga in the west people think it is only

a set of gymnastic exercises, same is with chi gong it is also more

than just some breathing exercises and movements.

Ultimately in both Chi Gong and Hatha Yoga in their inner teachings

the aim to transform the material body into a more subtle

indestructible body, or dissolve the material and recreate a new

subtle body, fee from karma kleshas and konditioning.

Since this is connected with the release of the Amrita the chinese

schools call themselves "Elixier Path".

Especially asian practioners may still know and use methods to gain

more power by misusing others.

Of course in the way chigong or Yoga is offered as a fitness and

health program in the west you will find very little information on

the spiritual side of these schools and no or very little misuse to

harm others, fortunately they lack the knowledge.

There is a strong indic Influence in Chigong, there are buddhist and

non-buddhist i.e taoist Chi gong styles and teachings.

Especially many teachings of the Siddha Mata or Navnath Sampradaya

have a close similarity to Nei dan and wai dan practices and

therefore there is also some similarity with the popularly known chi

gong practices.

btw Where did he learn and What was it the husband did?

September 14, 2006

Tons of thanks for the reply. I am going through the articles on the web on

qi gong. Will let every one know if I come across anything of specific

interest.

Regards

Dp

September 14, 2006

Interesting .. very interesting. Thanks for the article, Maha.

>From what I have been told, her husband, a chinese, got it from his master

who passed away couple of years back.

She says that she had wierd visions about her husband waking up a dragon in

one of the chinese mountains (this happened when he went missing in china

for some time), sucking energy from a female prostitute, trying to do the

same to her too. She also says that he used the energy to win gambling and

for other of his benifits.

Terrified she took help from one of the saints from India, and now says she

is fine. Also meanwhile her husband has met his downfall, and has no energy

left.

Man, and I never though pranayama and the likes could be used for this kind

of stuff.. dayum, I dont know anything..

Thanks and Regards

Dp

On 9/14/06, mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha > wrote:

>

> , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy

> wrote:

> >

> > , "Dhirendra Pal Singh"

> > <dpal.singh@> wrote: Hi All, :Lately I have come in contact with

> > a lady, who says that her husband was a master of "qi gong" and

> used

> > it to do harm. Now all of my understanding was that these breathing

> > exercises (Like Pranayama) couldnt be used for doing any harm but

> > only for spiritual upliftment. But it seems like I was wrong.

> >

> > Does any folks here have any idea about this..? Mahahradanatha?

> > Anyone else?

> >

>

> Yes the lady is correct Chi gong can be used to harm since it is

> only part of a much larger body of practices and teachings known as

> wai dan, = "outer elixir of immortality practices" working from

> outward practice to produce inward skills, and nai dan working from

> inward skills to produce outward effects = "the Inner elixir of

> Immortality practice" the situation is far more complicated and chi

> gong may in its taoist asian form even involve calling on Gods and

> Masters tracing yantras using mudras and mantras and raising spirits.

> The situation is similar to Yoga in the west people think it is only

> a set of gymnastic exercises, same is with chi gong it is also more

> than just some breathing exercises and movements.

>

--

Thanks

Dp

[The force is feminine in nature]

September 14, 2006

, "Dhirendra Pal Singh"

<dpal.singh wrote:

>

> Tons of thanks for the reply. I am going through the articles on the

web on

> qi gong. Will let every one know if I come across anything of specific

> interest.

>

> Regards

> Dp

>

Look here for an excellent introduction:

http://www.literati-tradition.com/qigong_intro.html

September 14, 2006

As Maha said, it's not just breathing exercises but also movement,

outer and inner work (nei gong). It's a yoga in motion. Advanced

practitioners can heal without touching.

>Lately I have come in contact with a lady, who says that her husband

>was a master of "qi gong" and used it to do harm. Now all of my

>understanding was that these breathing

>exercises (Like Pranayama) couldnt be used for doing any harm but

>only for spiritual upliftment.

Siddhis can be used to harm, spiritual power is power. The wise of

course do not do this, but every tradition refers to medicine people

who misuse their powers. This is why the practice of detachment and

renunciation is so important. The goal is not the siddhis, which are

no more than signposts on the path.

As well as the Indian influence on China, there is also the Chinese

on India, which some scholars have noted in studies of Tantra. There

are countless parallels, ojas and jing, qi and prana, not surprising

since they are describing profound reality.

A very illuminating source to look for on Chinese saahana, so to

speak, is Liu I Ming, some of whose works are in English translation

by Thomas Cleary. He speaks against some of the more mechanistic

interpretations of Taoist inner "alchemy," and expresses many

profound insights.

Max

--

Art in Goddess Reverence

http://www.maxdashu.net

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Women in Global Perspective

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

September 15, 2006

, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

A very illuminating source to look for on Chinese saahana, so to

speak, is Liu I Ming, some of whose works are in English translation

by Thomas Cleary. He speaks against some of the more mechanistic

interpretations of Taoist inner "alchemy," and expresses many

profound insights.

Thank you Max. I rememeber some time back [ maybe abt 3-4 yrs back ]

we encounter another Chinese Girl { a Phd student from China too ].

She is now in Goa to persue her studies and her area of Interest is

Shaktism. Ive chatted with her several times. I asked : why this

interest in Shaktism. She mention : Taoism. I wonder what happen to

her. She said she plan to meet up with Sankara Menon.

September 15, 2006

, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy

wrote:

>

> , Max Dashu <maxdashu@> wrote:

> A very illuminating source to look for on Chinese saahana, so to

> speak, is Liu I Ming, some of whose works are in English

translation

> by Thomas Cleary. He speaks against some of the more mechanistic

> interpretations of Taoist inner "alchemy," and expresses many

> profound insights.

>

> Thank you Max. I rememeber some time back [ maybe abt 3-4 yrs

back ]

> we encounter another Chinese Girl { a Phd student from China too ].

> She is now in Goa to persue her studies and her area of Interest is

> Shaktism. Ive chatted with her several times. I asked : why this

> interest in Shaktism. She mention : Taoism. I wonder what happen to

> her. She said she plan to meet up with Sankara Menon.

For me it was the other way around it was through Shaktism i became

interested in Taoism especially study of nai dan can deepen the

understanding of Yoga and Siddha Mata. The chinese teaching of nai

dan are not only influenced by Yoga or to be more specific by the

siddha mata from Matsyendranatha, they are the same Tradition, only

assimilated into China, same is true of the Sufi Tradition especially

the Tradition from Sindh, (i.e.the Hinglaj devi Pitha)

All the same methods with very little differences. Of course there is

no scholarly proof for this, but it is my personal belief and

experience.

Very good website on taoism- this link points to the the inner

alchemy tradition that has so many similarities with the Rasayana and

Siddha Mata, but the whole website is very interesting:

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/religious-activities&rituals/inner-

alchemy/default.asp

September 17, 2006

Dear Divine, Please see the attached write up on Meditation as taught to me by my great master. This is the surest path for interaction with the Guru's soul for integration without intercourse (body and mind contact but soul to soul contact and mergence with the ultimate reality).

If brothers and sisters find it useful to their total satisfaction they can follow. No comments are welcome, as it is totally a personal achievement of every individual.

Regards,

S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

Max Dashu <maxdashu (AT) lmi (DOT) net> wrote:

As Maha said, it's not just breathing exercises but also movement,

outer and inner work (nei gong). It's a yoga in motion. Advanced

practitioners can heal without touching.

>Lately I have come in contact with a lady, who says that her husband

>was a master of "qi gong" and used it to do harm. Now all of my

>understanding was that these breathing

>exercises (Like Pranayama) couldnt be used for doing any harm but

>only for spiritual upliftment.

Siddhis can be used to harm, spiritual power is power. The wise of

course do not do this, but every tradition refers to medicine people

who misuse their powers. This is why the practice of detachment and

renunciation is so important. The goal is not the siddhis, which are

no more than signposts on the path.

As well as the Indian influence on China, there is also the Chinese

on India, which some scholars have noted in studies of Tantra. There

are countless parallels, ojas and jing, qi and prana, not surprising

since they are describing profound reality.

A very illuminating source to look for on Chinese saahana, so to

speak, is Liu I Ming, some of whose works are in English translation

by Thomas Cleary. He speaks against some of the more mechanistic

interpretations of Taoist inner "alchemy," and expresses many

profound insights.

Max

--

Art in Goddess Reverence

http://www.maxdashu.net

Max Dashu

Suppressed Histories Archives

Women in Global Perspective

http://www.suppressedhistories.net

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

September 18, 2006

, sangar narayanan

<mackro1932 wrote:

>

> Dear Divine, Please see the attached write up on Meditation as

taught to me by my great master. This is the surest path for

interaction with the Guru's soul for integration without intercourse

(body and mind contact but soul to soul contact and mergence with

the ultimate reality).

> If brothers and sisters find it useful to their total

satisfaction they can follow. No comments are welcome, as it is

totally a personal achievement of every individual.

> Regards,

> S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

Too Bad. This is a public forum, and as long as you post it in here,

somebody will definitely respond. If you do not welcome comments,

then you should not post it here. If you look back we have publicly

declare ourself as "a rude bunch of people". I'm one of those rude

ones who like to defy such request for my own valid reasons.

Intercourse [ as in the Longman Dictionary : an exchange of ideas,

feekubgs etc which make people or group understand each other better]

Now you have said before: the guru, sishya and deity is one, isnt it

possible they have their own way of intercoursing with each other in

their own unique way. How can somebody come here saying : this is

the surest way? How do you rationalise this?

You dont have to answer and I do not expect you to. But if you must,

then do it! if not others will.

September 18, 2006

This is the path as taught to me by my guru and none can hold the view that this is not the surest path as it is my personal experience and view. If people like to follow they can without obligation follow and try, otherwise they can brush aside the idea. There is nothing that hurts me when our brothers and sisters have the mind to querry as that is the road for progress. When there are some good or adverse comments, it is also the opinion of the individual and therefore each and every indivitual has the right to follow their own path. The details are given just for the sake of information and i am not compelling any one to follow.

Kindest regards,

S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

NMadasamy <nmadasamy (AT) nmadasamy (DOT) com> wrote: