What are the qualities of a guru you can trust?

[Sridas]

I appreciate your advice prabhu and it's good, believe me i'm trying, but these statements can't go unanswered, I've switched off any more exposure to his posts but still my concern is for others.

[Datta pandya]

My dear friend,

 

There could be a lot of saints or Gurues who can give you blessings or anudans like change your fate, or remove some of your pain or sickness etc. But a true Guru is the one gives you right direction in life that uplifts your soul. I am a very fortulane and proud desciple of Pt.Shriram Sharma Acharya who was a siddha purush and was able to be present at five different places at a time and gave even jivan daan to a lot of people. The most important thing is he changed my perspective towrds life! He is not in his physical form anymore, I knew him only through his literature but I feel his presence everymoment with me giving me direction everywhere. If you go throgh his literature you will feel the same way. He has written more than 3000 books and a lot of them are available for free down load on www awgp org .

 

Datta

[Guest guest]

Bhakta Harry,

 

It's funny how you vehemently argue to establish the association of Srila Sridhar Maharaja as undesired because Srila Prabhupada 'instructed' as such. Srila Prabhupada also gave numerous 'instructions' to not criticize any Vaisnava, much less an exalted Vaisnava like Sridhar Maharaja. But you choose to ignore that particular 'instruction'. Why is that?

 

Even sincere neophytes try to avoid that dangerous road. Why do you wish to invite your own spiritual downfall?

 

 

Sridas prabhu;

Thank you to giving me the opportunity to debunk the various specious arguments presented by some of the followers of H.H. BR Sridhar Maharaj.

 

 

 

But you yourself have done the same thing and the website you linked to also passes the same judgement on Srila Prabhupada statements in 1974. In fact you yourself even had the audacity to say that there was something contradictory about these statements by Srila Prabhupada. "It appears somewhat contradictary if this is truly the statement of Srila Prabhupada." If this is not an example of passing judgment and criticising. I don't know what is.

 

 

Just because a certain number of Shrila Prabhupada's disciples went to HH Sridhar Maharaj's mutt does not prove that they were authorised to do so by Srila Prabhupada. For example the same disciples told us in 1978 that Srila Prabhupada had authorised only eleven selected chosen disciples to be initiating gurus within ISKCON. However by 1986 they had then declared that this was all lies and that actually Srila Prabhupada wanted more than just eleventh of these choosen disciples to be initiating gurus. So as I pointed out in my previous post unless it is in writing or recorded on tape by Srila Prabhupada it is not really direct evidence and can only be considered as supporting evidence to any point which is being made.

 

 

No, where does Srila Prabhupada state that the giver of sannyasa (Sannyasa guru) has to be an "uttama bhakta"? This is your invention and as such it is reprehensible.

 

 

siddha-purusa--liberated persons [CC ML TEXT 162-163]

This method is applicable both in the stage of sadhana [spiritual practices executed while in the stage of bondage] and in the stage of sadhya [God realization], when one is a siddha-purusa, or a spiritually perfect soul."[NOI 8]

 

I find that your above statement is highly doubtful. If your statement was true then why would Srila Prabhupada, our ever well-wisher, advise his beloved disciples to avoid these persons (his godbrothers), not to mix with with them etc.

"We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them." [sPL Rupanauga 28.4.74]

 

 

You claim that Sridhar Maharaj was very close to Srila Prabhupada family - not just close - but "very close to"! Approximately how many times did HH Sridhara Maharaj actually meet the members of Srila Prabhupada's family and was he meeting them on a daily basis or are you trying to create another illusion adding to the web of illusion which you have been spinning us so far?

 

 

 

How do you know this? Who are you to judge? He may not have been there in the flesh and blood but that does not mean to say that he was not present and that his presence was not perceived by the speaker.

 

 

Just because I challenge your interpretation of what Srila Bhaktisiddanta Sarasvati has said does not mean that I do not accept the authority of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and suggesting such merely proves my point that you take every opportunity to mislead the reader.

 

 

Because I challenge your erroneous conclusions you conclude that I am an offender and that I am committing spiritual suicide this is the sum and substance of your presentation. Your mentality is very similar to that of certain Christian cults who insist that if one does not accept Jesus Christ as the Lord and Saviour then one is doomed to hell and in hell it is very, very hot, full of suffering and misery. In other words they cannot discuss sidhanta in a logical and rational basis and instead attempt to instill fear for any alleged offences. The main offence - being that of disagreeing with what they have declared to be the truth. It is evident that you have not made any more advancement than the members of these Christian cults because you have the same mundane mentality. The statements which I have posted about HH Sridhar Maharaj and his godbrothers are not my statements they are Srila Prabhupada statements and if you think he is a just another common devotee then your problem is much worse than I had initially thought.

[Guest guest]

Q. What are the qualities of a guru you can trust?

 

A. I would look to what the symptoms of a cult are and then make sure that she or he is not part of a cult. There are many different experts at this point in time who have done sociological research as to what constitutes a cult or not. Basically a cult is an organization that harms someone and is toxic for a person's growth and mental health.

 

Q. Or how do you know which guru to trust...?

 

A. The Dalai Lama said you should spend ten years examining your potential guru first and that you should spy on him or her.

 

Q. ...and whether to trust any guru?

 

A. That is your judgement call. I have never heard of or met a perfect person. Everyone that I have ever heard about or read about in history I can think of at least one "off" thing about each person, including Jesus, Buddha. Gandhi, etc. But I can focus on the good about each person. "A wise man can learn from a fool, but a fool cannot even learn from a wise man."

 

Q. And what if that trust is betrayed in some later form after you've become a disciple...?

 

A. Yes, that has happened to me about a dozen times if you count siksa gurus.

 

Q. Such as lust?

 

A. Yes, this has happened with most of the people who were my mentors.

The first I did not even see it coming, because I was so young and naive and trusting.

 

Guruji apparently knew that he was going to "fall down", in retrospect. I was quite young and I wanted to be a lifelong celibate but one day guruji told us we all had to get married.

 

Then turns out [i found out years later, as I left in disgust due to other "off" things also] guruji had fallen in love with one of his married disciples, so that is why he told all of us to get married, to take the onus off of him, so he would look better when he "fell down". Because if we all "fell down" then no one would be observing brahmacarya anymore, so he would not look so bad.

 

The second time it happened I was older and I started screaming at guruji

what are you saying and doing and advocating, this is not in shastra, you are supposed to be an example.

 

Then guruji said, "I was too busy performing devotional service to read shastra" as his excuse. Then I did an investigation of the whole history of that guruji's org. So the second time then I studied history as my response

after leaving that situation.

 

The third time it happened, well before I even went into the org I got a friend and I said, "Look you tell me if you observe anything wacky and I will tell you the same." So that time I went in less blind and as soon as we found evidence of "off" behavior then we left that org.

 

That time instead of being clueless or screaming about it then I had a different view of human nature. I had read alot of history and I knew that this thing has gone on in every religion for centuries: that usually the laity is more advanced than the priests in most cultures.

 

In many cultures this is common knowledge and people just make jokes about it in a quiet way as to not piss off the priests but in such a manner as to warn the other lay people what the reality is. So you could say I went from a tamas guna reaction to a rajas guna reaction to a more sattvic reaction.

 

Q. What would you do then? How would you feel?

 

A. Now I feel really proud of myself. I found out that I have a good nose for "reading" people. There is some research that says that those who have had a hard life and nothing ever handed to them have a better BS detector than those who were coddled growing up.

 

I feel lucky I am able to "read" people pretty well and just get out of dysfunctional orgs as soon as I detect that things as "off". I feel very proud that I have more ethical and moral character than almost anyone I have ever met in a robe all the way up to heads of international organizations.

 

From finding out that I have better moral character than entire ecclesiastical

layers of bureaucrats then that changed how I feel about religion. Now I feel that religion is 99% about what is happening inside of you. I feel that it was a good eye-opener that robes and positions mean virtually nil in my book.

 

I also learned alot about what mental illnesses are and I learned that most of the ecclesiatical figureheads I met and who ended up being "off" actually have psychological disorders. So I learned alot about psychology that I never knew before, like what a sociopath is [anti-social personality disorder]

and how sociopaths are in every occupation.

 

I also learned what verbal abuse is and how priests are the most at risk for being verbal abusers, i.e. they have to act all perfect in public and almost 24 hours a day every day, yet they have to let off steam somehow. So they usually let off steam with their disciples and/or family in a very toxic way.

 

I also learned that people who were raised with sociopaths as parents or by verbally abusive parents are very at risk to be attracted to people who are

"off" because they were raised by "off" people, so "off" feels comfortable to them. I learned that I was raised pretty much by two sociopaths so no wonder kowtowing to sociopaths felt normal to me as a child and young adult.

 

Overall I think I was fortunate to be able to learn from the bad things, keep the good things, and meet some nice people along the way.

[Guest guest]

We can eliminate virtually everyone on the planet if we look for fault in those that are in the seat of guru-acharya- teacher- master. Everything may be imperfect and lacking full credentials, that does'nt mean the whole guru disciple relationship is bogus. There are genuine souls trying to help others rise above their material natures, and if we are sincere we will be directed to them, they ask nothing of you but your heart, no ulterior motives. They are usually self satisfied.

And they will also be stearing us through the minefield of imposters posing as

Gurus, they don't ask for blind allegiance, they want you be wide awake to illusion, exploitation and your own highest wellfare.

It's recomended to be cautious but if we are really sincere Krsna won't direct us to $3 bills to start with. He will guide us from within to be fed and nourished by a genuine lover of God.

On the other hand too much suspicion leads to suspension.

Krsna Himself recommends connecting to guru to understand the Truth...i.e. Him, so lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Guest guest]

 

Q. What are the qualities of a guru you can trust?

 

A. I would look to what the symptoms of a cult are and then make sure that she or he is not part of a cult. There are many different experts at this point in time who have done sociological research as to what constitutes a cult or not. Basically a cult is an organization that harms someone and is toxic for a person's growth and mental health.

 

Q. Or how do you know which guru to trust...?

 

A. The Dalai Lama said you should spend ten years examining your potential guru first and that you should spy on him or her..

 

 

Maybe we should take the experts as guides. Forget the gurus huh?

 

There are cult oriented members in most spiritual movements. That is the definition of a kanistha adhikari, the inability to see God outside my Guru God or group.

[Bhakta Harry]

 

Bhakta Harry,

 

It's funny how you vehemently argue to establish the association of Srila Sridhar Maharaja as undesired because Srila Prabhupada 'instructed' as such. Srila Prabhupada also gave numerous 'instructions' to not criticize any Vaisnava, much less an exalted Vaisnava like Sridhar Maharaja. But you choose to ignore that particular 'instruction'. Why is that?

 

Even sincere neophytes try to avoid that dangerous road. Why do you wish to invite your own spiritual downfall?

 

 

Of course by criticizing me for criticizing, you are guilty of the very thing you accuse me of, and thus your charge is self-contradictory. It is nonsense as soon as it is made.

If it is wrong to criticize then why criticize me? All my words are backed by quotes from Srila Prabhupada.

 

Next let us assume that your complaint is correct. Then we should ask if the criticizm is correct and truthful? To this the answer must be yes, because if the criticizm was wrong, then you would not bother to criticize me for simply criticizing! You would actually criticize me for telling lies. Therefore know that whenever someone criticizes someone else for the fact that they “only criticize”, this is another way of saying:

 

“I cannot criticize WHAT you say, therefore I will criticize you FOR saying it!”

 

On further examination, we find that all preaching is constructive criticizm: e.g. Maya bad – but Krishna good.

Some are similarly criticizing constructively: e.g. Unqualified gurus bad – Srila Prabhupada good.

 

 

Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. [sPL Rupanuga April 1974]

Ultimately if you think about it, all of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, are basically exposing all the impostors that exist in the material world, and showing us the reality, distinguishing truth from illusion.

 

satyam bruyat priyam bruyat

[sruti]

Prabhupada must have been very fond of Sridar Maharaj. I just read this in Pita dasa's journal:

 

One day Srila Prabhupada said that he wanted a million dollars put into a permanently fixed account where the money could never be taken out and only the interest drawn . This money was to be used to renovate all the lost or hidden places of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhus pastimes and his parashot (the associates) there was discussion of which places were the most important to renovate first, places in Bangladesh, West Bengal or in Orissa ?

 

Srila Prabhupads order was to go to the places in West Bengal first, but before that, money was to go to Srila Prabhupadas Godbrother Sridhar Maharaj to finish his temple in Nabadipa. Srila Prabhupada said his godbrother Sridhar Maharaj had worked his whole life to establish this temple and still it was not finished, "he is old now I would like that he sees it finished before he passes away." This later became known as the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust.

[Guest guest]

 

Prabhupada must have been very fond of Sridar Maharaj. I just read this in Pita dasa's journal:

 

One day Srila Prabhupada said that he wanted a million dollars put into a permanently fixed account where the money could never be taken out and only the interest drawn . This money was to be used to renovate all the lost or hidden places of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhus pastimes and his parashot (the associates) there was discussion of which places were the most important to renovate first, places in Bangladesh, West Bengal or in Orissa ?

 

Srila Prabhupads order was to go to the places in West Bengal first, but before that, money was to go to Srila Prabhupadas Godbrother Sridhar Maharaj to finish his temple in Nabadipa. Srila Prabhupada said his godbrother Sridhar Maharaj had worked his whole life to establish this temple and still it was not finished, "he is old now I would like that he sees it finished before he passes away." This later became known as the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust.

 

 

Many of Srila Prabhupads' disciples eventually contributed to the fullfillment of this wish to their supreme credit. The main request was for the nat mandir to be completed but now so many are continueing to extend that instruction to all visitors amazement, as the present spiritual wonderland manifests through the service of Srila Govinda Maharaj way beyond the original plan.

Srila Sridhara Maharaj was such a humble and austere vaisnava with simple tastes he even lived on buttermilk and a very basic diet collected from madhukari in his earlier life.

When disciples tried to modernize his living quarters with western paraphenalia, he would preferr his very basic apparel like potato sacks for curtains.

Whenever guests would come to stay he would always be so concerned for their comfort and well being, always worrying if they were fed and bedded properly often better than himself. There wern't enough beds in those early days but now Srila Govinda Maharaj has prepared for the multitudes coming to 'aparadhe bhanjan pat' from all quarters and accomodation has increased a hundred fold, for the increasing international pilgrims.

 

Of course no one cared for their own physical considerations in those days as his hari katha satisfied the devotees to overflowing and they all used to look after each other too.

 

Anyway the vaisnavas are like desire trees as they are always fullfilling our aspirations, our inner hearts wishes, this is the spiritual dimention, the world we hope to live in some day.

I remember hearing Srila Sridhara Maharaj in his last physical days emploring the devotees with folded palms and faltering voice to come live on the spiritual soil of Navadwip proper, where every atom is careing for every other atoms wellfare.

 

vancha-kalpa-tarubhyas ca

kripa-sindhubhya eva ca

patitanam pavanebhyo

vaisnavebhyo namo namah

 

This is the way the City of God manifests, it's built on respect.

 

Ananta koti Vaisnava-vrinda ki jaya!

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad Ki jaya!

Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaj Ki Jaya!

Nitai Gaura premanande hari bol!

[Guest guest]

 

satyam bruyat priyam bruyat

 

 

satyaM brUyAt priyaM brUyAt na brUyAt satyam-apriyaM /

priyaM ca nAnRtaM brUyAt esha dharmas-sanAtanaH

 

Always speak the truth, but don’t be eager to speak unpleasant truth, at the same time, don’t speak lies just because they are pleasing, speak that truth which is pleasing priyam. Priya means pleasing, truth is justice, but priya is above justice, it is grace, charm, beauty, mercy and love. And lila means the life-giving pastimes of love and beauty. And Radha and Krishna are the monument of Love and Beauty. And we are requested to speak that Truth which glorifies the lila of our Lord, Hari Katha, for He is Truth personified.

 

Their pastimes won't bring reaction, as do our minds and attempts at speech.

So speak of Him and who He likes in order to satisfy the whole audience.

[Guest guest]

 

If it is wrong to criticize then why criticize me? All my words are backed by quotes from Srila Prabhupada.

 

Anyone can quote but are your actions backed by Srila Prabhupad?????

[Guest guest]

<strong>A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami March 17, 1973 (BBT Archives 730317RC.MAY)</strong>

 

So, we are very fortunate to hear His Divine Grace, Om Vishnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacharya Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja. By age and by experience, in both ways, he is senior to me. I was fortunate to have his association since a very long time, perhaps in 1930

 

I took his [sridhara Maharaja] advises [sic], instructions, very seriously because from the very beginning I know he is a pure Vaishnava, a pure devotee, and I wanted to associate with him and I tried to help him also. Our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Sridhara Maharaja the head.

[Sridas]

 

 

Is this called Love in separation?

 

 

 

The boy in the picture went even further and became an initiated disciple of SSM.

Maybe the photo has been edited you know special effects, I just can't explain the reality otherwise.

 

Then again if it looks like association and it sounds like association, maybe it is association!

[Sridas]

 

 

Dear Sruti Prabhu,

This is the extention of Srila Prabhupad's wishes to complete Srila Sridhara Maharaj's Nat Mandir. This is Sri Govinda kund Navadwip corresponding to that in Sri Govardhan- Vrndavan.

Srila Sridhara Maharaj's vision of this place he chose to do bhajan in, was gupta Govardhan. (hidden from mundane vision) As we've been enlightened by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur that all of Navadwipdham corresponds to Sri Gokula Mandala.

By the grace of Srila Bhakti Sundara Govinda Maharaj he has extracted the inner beauty, manifesting it into the external environment for the benefit of all who visit. It is considered a very sacred and significant place in the pastimes of both Mahaprabhu and Krsna.

[Bhakta Harry]

 

satyaM brUyAt priyaM brUyAt na brUyAt satyam-apriyaM /

priyaM ca nAnRtaM brUyAt esha dharmas-sanAtanaH

 

Always speak the truth, but don’t be eager to speak unpleasant truth, at the same time, don’t speak lies just because they are pleasing, speak that truth which is pleasing priyam. Priya means pleasing, truth is justice, but priya is above justice, it is grace, charm, beauty, mercy and love. And lila means the life-giving pastimes of love and beauty. And Radha and Krishna are the monument of Love and Beauty. And we are requested to speak that Truth which glorifies the lila of our Lord, Hari Katha, for He is Truth personified.

 

Their pastimes won't bring reaction, as do our minds and attempts at speech.

So speak of Him and who He likes in order to satisfy the whole audience.

 

Thank-you for your erudite points.

However my purpose in quoting this has been misunderstood, so I shall post some quotes to clarify my point.

 

 

It is certainly unpleasant, but the officers who publish the magazine do not know satyam bruyat priyam bruyat, in this material world only palatable truth should be spoken. Unpalatable truth should be carefully avoided. ............

Devotees always humbly offer respect to everyone, but when there is a discussion on a point of sastra, they do not observe the usual etiquette, satyam bruyat priyam bruyat. They speak only the satyam, although it may not necessarily be priyam. [Letter to: Sumati Morarjee Valencay, France 7 August, 1976]

 

But the world is such that satyam bruyat priyam bruyat ma bruyat satyam apriyam. They want if you can say the truth, but don't say the unpalatable truth. But that is social etiquette. When you speak about spiritual life there is no such scope. You must speak the truth:[sBL 7.9.10]

 

Satyam bruyat priyam bruyat ma bruyat satyam abruyat.

It is social convention that if you want to speak truth, you speak truth very palatable, flattering. Don't speak unpalatable truth. But we are not meant for that purpose, social convention. We are preacher, we are servant of God. We must speak the real truth. [sPL OCT 20TH 1968]

 

So this is our position. Satyam bruyat priyam bruyat ma bruyat satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared.[RC JAN 3RD 1977]

[Bhakta Harry]

 

Anyone can quote but are your actions backed by Srila Prabhupad?????

 

Yes

 

 

But the world is such that satyam bruyat priyam bruyat ma bruyat satyam apriyam. They want if you can say the truth, but don't say the unpalatable truth. But that is social etiquette. When you speak about spiritual life there is no such scope. You must speak the truth:[sBL 7.9.10]

 

I really have little intrest in HH BR Sridar Maharaja, however when his followers make unsubstantiated claims like Sridas has on this thread like this:

 

 

A practical example of the vaisnavas help for me personally was when Srila Prabhupad directed his disciples to go to Srila Sridhara Maharaj for any guidance,

 

This is lies - as I have pointed out in a previous post

 

1. 1. 
      
   2. Srila Prabhupada never tells US to accept Sridhara Maharaja as OUR Siksa guru or to consult him. On the contrary, as I have quoted before, he instructs US to actually AVOID Sridhara Maharaja.
      
   3. Further the only time anyone was advised to go to Sridhara Maharaja, was only to STOP that person from going to a 'black snake'.
      
      
   4. Thus there are NO instructions from Srila Prabhupada instructing us to take shelter of Sridhara Maharaja (except to stop one person from taking shelter from a 'black snake'), but there ARE instructions from Srila Prabhupada telling us to NOT take shelter of Sridhara Maharaja.

    

   You must speak the truth. :[sBL 7.9.10]

and as Srila Prabhupada has said in the quote above

[Guest guest]

Bhakta Harry,

 

It seems that you are mistaken about my post. I simply asked 2 questions. I repeat the 2 questions here for the sake of refreshing memory-

 

-

1. "Srila Prabhupada also gave numerous 'instructions' to not criticize any Vaisnava, much less an exalted Vaisnava like Sridhar Maharaja. But you choose to ignore that particular 'instruction'. Why is that?"

 

2. "Even sincere neophytes try to avoid that dangerous road. Why do you wish to invite your own spiritual downfall?"

---

 

You responded saying that I was 'criticizing you. Since when has asking questions equated to criticizing someone?!

 

Anyways, if Srila Prabhupada is the only pure devotee from his time (from the Gaudiya matha) which is what you are trying to establish in your posts, that reflects rather poorly on Srila BhaktiSidhanta Saraswati. Was he such a weak Acarya that he could make just 1 pure devotee? I do not believe that is the case.

 

 

Of course by criticizing me for criticizing, you are guilty of the very thing you accuse me of, and thus your charge is self-contradictory. It is nonsense as soon as it is made.

If it is wrong to criticize then why criticize me? All my words are backed by quotes from Srila Prabhupada.

 

Next let us assume that your complaint is correct. Then we should ask if the criticizm is correct and truthful? To this the answer must be yes, because if the criticizm was wrong, then you would not bother to criticize me for simply criticizing! You would actually criticize me for telling lies. Therefore know that whenever someone criticizes someone else for the fact that they “only criticize”, this is another way of saying:

 

“I cannot criticize WHAT you say, therefore I will criticize you FOR saying it!”

 

On further examination, we find that all preaching is constructive criticizm: e.g. Maya bad – but Krishna good.

Some are similarly criticizing constructively: e.g. Unqualified gurus bad – Srila Prabhupada good.

 

 

Ultimately if you think about it, all of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, are basically exposing all the impostors that exist in the material world, and showing us the reality, distinguishing truth from illusion.

 

satyam bruyat priyam bruyat

[Bhakta Harry]

 

Bhakta Harry,

 

It seems that you are mistaken about my post. I simply asked 2 questions. I repeat the 2 questions here for the sake of refreshing memory-

 

-

1. "Srila Prabhupada also gave numerous 'instructions' to not criticize any Vaisnava, much less an exalted Vaisnava like Sridhar Maharaja. But you choose to ignore that particular 'instruction'. Why is that?"

 

Please post examples of my criticizm.

 

2. "Even sincere neophytes try to avoid that dangerous road. Why do you wish to invite your own spiritual downfall?"

---

 

You responded saying that I was 'criticizing you. Since when has asking questions equated to criticizing someone?!

 

If you read your post again you also wrote ....

"It's funny how you vehemently argue to establish the association of Srila Sridhar Maharaja as undesired because Srila Prabhupada 'instructed' as such"

 

Here you criticize my method of arguing without substantiation. Thus it is deemed as critical.

 

 

Anyways, if Srila Prabhupada is the only pure devotee from his time (from the Gaudiya matha) which is what you are trying to establish in your posts,

 

This is a very poor speculation and as such is against the 4 regs ie: mental speculation. He may have been a pure devotee but he was not qualified to be an acarya.

 

 

that reflects rather poorly on Srila BhaktiSidhanta Saraswati. Was he such a weak Acarya that he could make just 1 pure devotee? I do not believe that is the case.

 

Who are you to judge how many pure devotee's Srila BhaktiSidhanta Saraswati produced by his preaching?

[Guest guest]

Well, if you modified your post a little, I think you'll have nailed it on the head! Rather than- who are 'you' to judge, who are 'we' to judge would be very apt. And I wouldn't argue that at all. That would be the pefect attitude ... and we can apply that principle- who are we to judge- to all areas, including H.H Srila Sridhara Maharaja & all of the other Gaudiya Vaisnava Acaryas!

 

 

Please post examples of my criticizm.

 

If you read your post again you also wrote ....

"It's funny how you vehemently argue to establish the association of Srila Sridhar Maharaja as undesired because Srila Prabhupada 'instructed' as such"

 

Here you criticize my method of arguing without substantiation. Thus it is deemed as critical.

 

This is a very poor speculation and as such is against the 4 regs ie: mental speculation. He may have been a pure devotee but he was not qualified to be an acarya.

 

Who are you to judge how many pure devotee's Srila BhaktiSidhanta Saraswati produced by his preaching?

[Govardhan Giri Dasa]

 

I was chanting Narayana from my birth and Lord Chaitannya visited me after my birth and also later. I was looking for Narayana. Sathya Sai Baba (later revealed to me) who came to my work place at Bangalore 10 yrs back and initiated me keeping His identity secret with Hare Krsna mohamantra and told me that I am His Chela. During this initiation I did not asked His identity but He given me hints saying, come to my Ashram at Whitefield though I forgotten. Later many demigods including Krsna, Chaitannya and Narayana gave darshan to me.

So Sathya Sai Baba is prefect spiritual Guru and Narayana Himself. I had seen His subtle Body as Narayana. Sathya Sai Baba's birth name is Sathya Narayana and Sirdi Sai Baba worshiped Narayana to get His blessing and Sirdi Sai entered within the body of Sathya Narayana and became Sathya Sai Baba. Sirdi Sai was Lord Shiva Himself.

So there is no doubt that anybody who worships Sathya Sai Baba will get blessing of Shiva and Narayana both. Sathya Sai Baba is authorized Guru by lord Krsna and every body must get His blessing, if possible initiation of Hare Krsna mohamantra.

[Govardhan Giri Dasa]

Where in the authorised scriptures does it say that Sathya Sai Baba is Narayana Himself ?? Please do not get carried away with your statements. Respect and love for your Guru is natural, but please do not make him equal to Narayana.

[sruti]

 

 

 

Dear Sruti Prabhu,

This is the extention of Srila Prabhupad's wishes to complete Srila Sridhara Maharaj's Nat Mandir. This is Sri Govinda kund Navadwip corresponding to that in Sri Govardhan- Vrndavan.

Srila Sridhara Maharaj's vision of this place he chose to do bhajan in, was gupta Govardhan. (hidden from mundane vision) As we've been enlightened by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur that all of Navadwipdham corresponds to Sri Gokula Mandala.

By the grace of Srila Bhakti Sundara Govinda Maharaj he has extracted the inner beauty, manifesting it into the external environment for the benefit of all who visit. It is considered a very sacred and significant place in the pastimes of both Mahaprabhu and Krsna.

 

 

Thank you for the beautiful picture.

[Guest guest]

<strong>Srila Prabhupada speaks to Sridhar Maharaja--March 1977</strong>

 

(BENGALI CONVERSATION, TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH BY BHAKTI CARU SWAMI)

 

Srila Prabhupada: I very much want, Maharaja, that you come and stay at Mayapura. Because Prabhupada [bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur] always desired that you preach. He told me quite a few times, "Why don't you pull him out?" [They both laugh.] You know, I also tried to some extent before, but somehow or other it did not work out. Now, why don't you come and stay at Mayapura?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: At last Prabhupada [bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur] told me: "You are an ease-lover. [Laughter] The qualifications - that you have."

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that's true. He told me also, "He is such a qualified person. Sridhara Maharaja is one of the finest preachers." I want to take you everywhere. At least at the place we have in Mayapura, people are coming from all over the world. Why don't you come and stay there? What is your objection to staying in Mayapura? If you just agree, then whatever kind of building you want, I will arrange it for you. They are trying to build a house for me, so both of us will stay there. And whenever you want, you can come here [to this Navadwipa math].

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Yes, as long as I am alive to fulfill Prabhupada's desire.

 

Srila Prabhupada: This is my earnest desire. Since you could not go around the world and preach, at least stay there and people will come to you. I shall make that arrangement. And if you stay there, then it will be very helpful to me also. Sometimes I need to consult with someone but there is no one. There is no one with whom I can consult. I feel this deficiency very greatly.

 

Devotee: If he stays in Mayapura, then all kinds of people will get to hear from him.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that's right.

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Yes, people from all kinds of cultural backgrounds will come there.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, they are already coming. And in that house I will make arrangements for an elevator so that you won't have to go through the difficulty of walking up and down the stairs. You won't even have to move a step yourself. I'll make arrangements for a car and a lift. Jayapataka Maharaja is telling me that he will build a house for me. <strong>So both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am just traveling around, so if you are there, then they can get some guidance.</strong> So Maharaja, please-give me the order and I will make all the arrangements for you.

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Well, I'll think it over and let you know.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Let me make that arrangement, Maharaja. That planetarium [the "Temple of Understanding"] also will be built under your direction. My idea is to combine the Indian culture and the American money-the lame man and the blind man policy. I tell them also that this will be very beneficial for the world. Indian culture and varnasrama. Prabhupada's desire was to establish the varnasrama-dharma. So we have to do that: we have to establish our Varnasrama College. Let the people from all over the world come and learn about varnasrama.

[Guest guest]

<b>What Sripada Sridhara Maharaja has directed, I take it on my head. He is my always well-wisher. After the departure of Prabhupada [bhaktisiddhanta] it is appropriate that I should accept his direction. I got direction from him that I shall live in this country (America) forever.</b>

 

[Letter to Srila Govinda Maharaja~Jan 29, 1969]

 

This letter was written when Prabhupada was very sick and he was considering returning to India in case he should die in America.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj had written to Srila Prabhupada and told him that he did not need to return to India and go to Vrindaban, because whereever Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was, that was Vrindaban.

[Srimanta]

 

What Sripada Sridhara Maharaja has directed, I take it on my head. He is my always well-wisher. After the departure of Prabhupada [bhaktisiddhanta] it is appropriate that I should accept his direction. I got direction from him that I shall live in this country (America) forever.

 

[Letter to Srila Govinda Maharaja~Jan 29, 1969]

 

This letter was written when Prabhupada was very sick and he was considering returning to India in case he should die in America.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj had written to Srila Prabhupada and told him that he did not need to return to India and go to Vrindaban, because whereever Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was, that was Vrindaban.

 

When Lord Chaitannya being real incarnation of Lord Krsna took the position of devotee and servant of Krsna, real Guru should follow the example of Lord Chaitannya and try to find relationship with Krsna. When one tries to violate that parampara and tries to replace Chaitannya through new concepts of religion, it always goes against the teaching of Vedas and Bhagavatam.

Many partial incarnations had come from Krsna and His associates previously but none of them had violated the teaching of Krsna. Krsna's teaching is unique and that is the ultimate realization about all religions one can achieve. So how can one cross the ultimate?

If one tries to cross the ultimate one have to face in every steps all masters of ultimate who are sitting holding feet of Krsna. Can one overcome this barrier? So falling is sure in that case into material life and one has to pass through miserable life in this mundane material world. So it is wise to hold feet of Prabhupada and move forward as per his instruction by realizing Krsna and supporting KC movement is always wise a decision.