Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 It was a rout. Diksha Gurus 6 Ritviks 0. I'll stick with the diksa and siksa systems. Ritviks don't stand a chance. Just for reminding you - it is you who started the debate at the very first place. A bona fide genuine spiritual master is recognized of bringing big crowds of people all over the world to Krishna's Lotusfeet. Whereas people like you suggest to accept such kind of gurus who do the opposite - either re-enter the life-style of the kali-chelas and reject their disciples or just become known for being incompetent - many temples all over the world being closed presently. Just like there are so many present ISKCON/GM gurus who have after 10-15 years in office just some 2 -10 disciples although clearly their mission is to travel and lecture big style all over the world in order to distríbute the HOLY NAME in every town and village and save 6.500.000.000 souls who have attained the very rare human form of life. So who started the ritvik debate? Prabhupada's power when he was the center of ISKCON was to make people join like big style - realy big style - even prime ministers got nervous whats happening in their countries. Is it that what you hate, too many Vaishnavas on this planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sridas Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 post #9429 April 1987 SSDGM with Dr. Asthana SSDGM: "...We hate them. We hate them:..." Shocking. It just sounds like another variation of: "God told me to HATE YOU!" Something is wrong with people shopping around looking for the Truth? And if they see something wrong [major corruption] here, then they have to go there? They see something wrong there [sychophants to a deluded person] then they try another group? We are supposed to hate people like that? Again, sounds like the beginning of a cult mentality originated with the founders. Not to minimize or disparage the good things. But I can't imagine the Dalai Lama saying "We hate them". Then again, guess that's why the Dalai Lama got nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize and SSDGM didn't. Sad. Just like Jesus and the money changers being driven out of the temple, Srila Sridhara Maharaj was disgusted by a certain revolt that was simmering at that time. Both Srila Sridhara Maharaj and Srila Govinda Maharaj are extremely mystical personalities, they knew that a division was brewing and had already experienced it in the Gaudiya Math then witnessed it again when so many Iskcon devotees brought their problems to his doorstep after the acharyas of those missions departed. SSM had also had trouble makers try to even take over his own Math, but many of his godbrothers came to support him and they were defeated. So it is understandable that he dispised those that were trying to undermine everything he had established. You don't know the details they were'nt pretty, he dealt with different situations differently. At another time an assasin was sent to kill him, altho he knew, SSM charmed that gunda with compassion, and the gunda ended up offering his dandavats and begging forgiveness which he gave and alot more. So you should be very cautious passing such judgement as you may just end up following the Dalai Lama back to the great zero. Srila Sridhara Maharaj wasn't interested in peace prizes, he was concerned to take sincere souls back home to their eternal loving relationship with our sweet Lord. If that meant he had to reveal some scoundrels in the process with a few harsh words so be it, they rejected his love when they rejected his wishes. As Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakur said "We are declaring totalitarian war against Maya". And maya comes in many subtle disguises cloaked in religious cloth to delude, divide and deceive the honest aspirants... Srila Sridhara Maharaj gave his life wholesale trying to harmonise the detracters with sweet and very wise katha, he was especially known for his unifieing nature. When those he was talking about stole deities, the wealth collected in his name, and tried to turn his own disciples against his will, it is understandable he resorted to stronger language knowing how much chaos and confusion these rascals can create. You have no idea of the battles he fought to protect the dignity of Gaudiya Vaisnavism from it's own internal collapse, so that we may get a chance to join Mahaprabhu's sankirtan movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 By the way, Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaja began giving diksa while his own Guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura was still personally present in this world. He did that, after being personally instructed to do that by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. what has that got to do with the neophyte ISKCON swamis pretending to be worshipable ashraya-vigrahas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 sad and uninspiring...I'll go a step further and say, 'quite stifling really'. Movement is dynamic, progressive and evolving...if not so, non-movement will pass away into history and books. Time will tell.... The Caitanya-Bhagavata even foretells of a Vyasadeva penning more glories of Mahaprabhu... the sad part is to see that, even after seeing the words of Sridhar Maharaja appointing Govinda Maharaja to succeed him in a ritvik capacity, so many so-called devotees are going to stand up and say that he really didn't mean what he said and that the ritvik concept is bogus. it's there on the record. Sridhar Maharaja appointed his successor to be a ritvik. No arguments, other histories or undocumented so-called remarks that "we aren't Sikhs" can change the declaration of spiritual succession of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. The "i wanna be guru" disease is so widespread that every little Tom, dick and Harry who "got initiated" by a "guru" thinks that someday he can be guru and he ain't gonna let anything stop him. Well, go ahead and be guru fellows. You can try, but I can tell you for sure it will go over like a lead balloon and unless you can offer somebody a meal-ticket, a bunk or some money-making scam at a temple, ain't nobody gonna want to be the disciple of you western clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 It was a rout. Diksha Gurus 6 Ritviks 0. I'll stick with the diksa and siksa systems. Ritviks don't stand a chance. Sure. Let's be acharya and have satellite TV and keep up with the latest soccer championships, because before I was guru I was one hell of a soccer player. That why we are ritviks of the acharya. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sridas Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 You sure sound inimical of just about everyone but yourself. For one on such a platform that can criticise so many devotees no matter what level they are on you must be really elevated. You sound a lot like someone who never made it anywhere with anyone so you've resorted to insulting and dishonoring vaisnavas just to revel in the sound of the blowing of your own trumpet. Acharyas shine way beyond the scope of our petty judgements, When Srila Sridhara Maharaj read the newspapers it was said he extracted the Vedas from those mundane activities and controversy. Personally I believe they kick balls in the spiritual world, it's fun, especially when you've got devotee friends to do it with, I hear they are good sports. You can usually tell a good sport from an envious one. It all has to do with respect and offence. Generally most people sense the losers. I 'm sure there'll be a lot surprises in the spiritual world that is if we ever get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 The "i wanna be guru" disease is so widespread that every little Tom, dick and Harry who "got initiated" by a "guru" thinks that someday he can be guru and he ain't gonna let anything stop him. another disease that is widespread is the envy of Vaishnavas and considering every one of them fallen, greedy, and ignorant. perhaps it stems from thinking: everyone is just like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Sure.Let's be acharya and have satellite TV and keep up with the latest soccer championships, because before I was guru I was one hell of a soccer player. That why we are ritviks of the acharya. ! Now, you're criticizing acharyas who watch soccer with their disciples. Next, you'll be criticizing acharyas who bust out laughing watching mundane nonsense Charlie Chaplin movies with their friends. After that, you'll be condemning acharyas who wear Rolex watches and who use snuff to keep them awake while they work. Ksamabuddhi, you're on a slippery slope here. Read the story of Pundarika Vidyanidhi before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sridas Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 another disease that is widespread is the envy of Vaishnavas and considering every one of them fallen, greedy, and ignorant. perhaps it stems from thinking: everyone is just like me. Hey yeah.... come to think of it I thought the philosophy we were following was that I 'm the only one that is fallen and everyone else is above me. Something about the Land of gurus, giving honor and humility, being generous with our respect, where we walk on our heads, not everyone elses. Like those sentiments expressed by Srila Krsna das Kaviraj, or our Prayojana Acharya.... (oops there's that word again) Srila Raghunath das, or perhaps the Nam acharya Srila Haridas Thakur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Is it that what you hate, too many Vaishnavas on this planet? Nei baba, Why's a brother to hate on too many Vaishnava's. Here's some pure hate from Srila Sridhar Maharaja: "If someone says that he has reached that standard, and that there is nothing further to be realized, we offer our obeisances to him from far away. We are not worshipers of that. If one thinks that he is finished, that he has attained perfection — we hate it! Even an acharya should consider that he is a student, and not a finished professor who knows everything. One should always think of himself as a bona fide student. We have come to realize the Infinite, not a finite thing. So, this fight between finite and Infinite knowledge will continue always. Should we think, "What I have understood is absolute." No! We have not finished with knowledge. Still, we must know. Brahma himself says, "I am fully deceived by your power, Master. I am nowhere." Anyone who has come in connection with the infinite cannot but say this: "I am nothing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 another disease that is widespread is the envy of Vaishnavas and considering every one of them fallen, greedy, and ignorant. perhaps it stems from thinking: everyone is just like me. If everybody was just like me, we wouldn't have any bogus gurus in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 this is what you tell your disciples when you are kicked-back at the Matha on Sunday afternoon watching the soccer game..... "my guru Maharaja used to read the newspaper and he saw the Vedas there" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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