Why ISKCON Gurus Get Sick Often?

[bhagavad-gita]

In the recent past we have seen many ISKCON gurus get sick often and have passed away with fatal diseases like cancer. When they have reasonably been good enough and healthy why should they get such diseases?

 

Usually pure devotees don't get afflicted with such deadly diseases. Which pure devotee in our sampradaya has passed away with fatal diseases or in car crashes?

 

Is it because the present ISKCON gurus are not able to deal with the karma they take from their disciples during initiation? A siddha bhakta, pure devotee can easily deal with karma and get away from them. Or is it because the gurus just are not qualified to be gurus?

 

Won't it be better for them to just remain as senior devotee preachers and be an inspiration for other devotees. That way they can remain longer alive and contribute more to ISKCON than become incompetent gurus and get lost with the karma of their disciples.

[tensriram]

The beloved Guru's take on to themselves the ills of all the devotee's and have accumulated some past karma too over which they have no control.

 

Suffering is on this account and for which we need to remain greatful

[Gaea]

maybe Krsna just wants them to come back to Him sooner

[harerama]

 

maybe Krsna just wants them to come back to Him sooner

 

If that were true, why would they have to die such horrible deaths? Cancer is no picnic, and I think it would be one of the worst ways to die. Instead of a quick, painless death it's a dragged out process, which is very painful.

 

This is something I've also wondered about. If God is supposed to be merciful, why isn't He seemingly merciful to his devotees? Why does God have to hurt them so much, and why does He give them such painful deaths?

[Sridas]

All Gurus get sick, some are sufficiently purified to take the suffering of their disciples on board, others on a madhyam platform will be effected more.

The world is no doubt in emergency mode, some will take disciples prematurely not having capacity to digest their karmic reactions due to lack of complete surrender, which translates as complete faith, they and their disciples may continue to commit offence subtly and sometimes grossly, setting up more vulnerability to the physical manifestations of those deeper problems.

 

But the service is nessacary, any amount of sincere committment to the job will help the overall organic whole, so long as it doesn't interfere with any qualified surgeons, the hospitals are overflowing, the medical system is in chaos.

India is sending doctors all over the planet in droves, but so, still you get problem makers instead of disease relievers, we had a surgeon down here in Oz they eventually dubbed Dr. death, as he was using patients to do surgery way over his qualification.

 

Even if a guru is a pure devotee they are still living in a garbage dump of diseased conditioned souls and it's only a matter of time till the water evaporates from the pond and the body of the lotus dies.

 

Of course if they have serious disciples who observe the directives they have been given, that also helps societies immune system, but Kali yuga is relentless, it is very dedicated to it's mission, and there are hybrid diseases developing every day. Fear of the diseases doesn't help, so be bold and take heart, distribute the panacea of Hari nam sankirtan couched in affectionate and honorable dealings, to get those virusus on the back foot.

 

It is reassuring Krsna in his infinite mercy is ready to catch and carry those who have sincerely endeavoured to fullfill His will. Whatever little we've done or aspired to do shan't be forgotten in the Lords vast data banks, they're almost as big as His heart.

 

The material world by nature is very devouring and consuming!

What can a baddha jiva do but make the best of a bad bargain, to help relieve our fellow travellers on the journey, and in the process help ourselves.

[krishnadasa]

what we see from outside need not be same from inside apparently! I have no other answer

 

hari hari bol

[Gaea]

 

what we see from outside need not be same from inside apparently! I have no other answer

 

hari hari bol

 

only if you want to see such gurus in a bad light.

[bhagavad-gita]

Why become an incompetent guru and get sick? better to not have become a voted-in guru. Is it because of hunger for fame and following that drives one to become a guru?

[krishnadasa]

 

only if you want to see such gurus in a bad light.

I cant dare to speak anyhting against vaishnawa. You got me wrong! what i meant was, from outside they may be very weak because of the sickness, but from inside they are knowing the all knower, or might be the lord inside is taking care about them specially.... Hope you had me now

 

Hari hari bol

[Gaea]

 

I cant dare to speak anyhting against vaishnawa. You got me wrong! what i meant was, from outside they may be very weak because of the sickness, but from inside they are knowing the all knower, or might be the lord inside is taking care about them specially.... Hope you had me now

 

Hari hari bol

 

oh ok, i understand now.

[Sephiroth]

 

In the recent past we have seen many ISKCON gurus get sick often and have passed away with fatal diseases like cancer. When they have reasonably been good enough and healthy why should they get such diseases?

 

Usually pure devotees don't get afflicted with such deadly diseases. Which pure devotee in our sampradaya has passed away with fatal diseases or in car crashes?

 

Is it because the present ISKCON gurus are not able to deal with the karma they take from their disciples during initiation? A siddha bhakta, pure devotee can easily deal with karma and get away from them. Or is it because the gurus just are not qualified to be gurus?

 

Won't it be better for them to just remain as senior devotee preachers and be an inspiration for other devotees. That way they can remain longer alive and contribute more to ISKCON than become incompetent gurus and get lost with the karma of their disciples.

 

Hmm ... Is it practise of Hindusm for a guru to take Karma of others onto themselves?

 

I don't remember any practise like that in the Vedas or the Gita. But I do know that Christian Priests follow the same methods though.

[Kulapavana]

 

Usually pure devotees don't get afflicted with such deadly diseases.

 

what is the basis of this statement? many great devotees in our tradition suffered from all kinds of health problems, mostly because they neglected to properly take care of their bodies because they were too absorbed in the service (like the six Goswamis). Even Srila Prabhupada died of what looked like a terrible disease.

 

are you just looking for an excuse to criticize Iskcon gurus? if so, find something real to complain about because this particular argument is hollow.

[bhagavad-gita]

 

Even Srila Prabhupada died of what looked like a terrible disease.

 

are you just looking for an excuse to criticize Iskcon gurus? if so, find something real to complain about because this particular argument is hollow.

 

do you think prabhupada is one of the voted-in gurus who is behind his followers to maintain him? you are hollow yourself to comment that the six goswamis and prabhupada were afflicted with diseases. just ask any of these "gurus" to go for days together without food or any drink. goswamis did it. prabhupada sailed across at 70. their consciousness is absorbed in krishna 100 %. it was their lila to be diseased. you can never figure out why they do so with your puny material intelligence. and foolish people dont understand the difference between a pure devotee and those who get voted in to be recognised as gurus. a pure devotee doesnt need anyone to certify him to be a guru. all the present gurus put together cannot become even a fraction of the dust of prabhupada's lotus feet.

 

those who advocate homosexual marriages, those who protect child abusers / rapers like bhavananda, those "goswamis" who still retain the title goswami after being caught sleeping with a woman, do you think all these categories of conditioned souls equal prabhupada? if you do, then you are hopeless too.

 

iskcon today is in this precarious condition because of sentimental fallen-guru-worshippers like you. you are conditioned to protect your not-fallen-but-conditioned guru just out of sentiment. all the best.

[gopal sakha]

ISKCON gurus consume too much sugar and ghee and they do not get enough physical activity.

Srila Prabhupada requested that ISKCON use raw sugar if possible, but ISKCON continued to use processed white sugar and too much ghee and butter in the diets of the devotees.

ISKCON gurus could use a little yoga discipline and a lighter diet than is offered the deities.

If devotees want to eat like the deities, then they will eat too much sugar and ghee.

The lifestyle of ISKCON gurus is too relaxed and lazy.

They need some physical exertion.

 

I heard a narration about Srila Prabhupada walking through Balboa Park in San Diego with some disciples when they came upon some yogi type doing yoga exercises.

The disciples sort of snickered and scoffed at this individual and expected Srila Prabhupada to criticise this yogi, but Srila Prabhupada acknowledged this yogi and said "this is good health".

 

So, yoga as a process of self-realization might be terribly deficient in this age, but yoga as a healthful discipline is very good.

[Kulapavana]

 

... it was their lila to be diseased. you can never figure out why they do so with your puny material intelligence.

 

the same arguments can be used in their (and your) case as well. also, remember that Prabhupada himself chose some less than qualified characters to lead his movement even during his presence with often disastrous results. still, we see it as Krsna's plan. maybe the same applies to the new gurus with all their real and imaginary shortcomings? who are you to judge such things?

 

 

iskcon today is in this precarious condition because of sentimental fallen-guru-worshippers like you. you are conditioned to protect your not-fallen-but-conditioned guru just out of sentiment. all the best.

 

I worship all Vaishnavas, especially those whose hearts are free of envy. There are many very qualified devotees among those who you criticize, and I gladly bow down to them.

[bhagavad-gita]

The following quote should help keep a full stop for all sentimental worship of gurus:

 

"A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated." - Tuesday, June 10, 1969, Letter to Mukunda.

 

So now you have got only one option: to believe all the ISKCON gurus are liberated. But... In our parampara there is no history of gurus dying from terrible diseases like cancer, or of dying in violent car accidents, but in ISKCON one after another the gurus are suffering from cancer, hepatitis, getting in car crash, being attacked with weapons, etc. Krishna protects his sincere devotees like Prahlada, he doesn't inflict them with cancer and aids (like GBC member and proposed women guru Malati). Krishna doesn't make "Krishnapada" have to amputate his leg before dying of cancer like Bhakti Tirtha Swami (who also supported homosexual marriages). Krishna doesn't make "Vishnupada" have a nervous breakdown like Harikesh, who ran off with 5 million dollars and a mansion in the Rivieras.

 

Most of the present ISKCON leadership such as Bhakti Tirtha Swami, Devamrita Swami, Radhanatha Swami, Umapati Swami, Bhaktisiddhanta Swami, Malati, Kuladri (ex-swami), etc. were all Kirtanananda followers who left ISKCON and followed Kirtanananda's teachings for years. Devamrita Swami was dressed in the Christian robes saying Kirtanananda was a pure devotee as late as 1994. Malati was a female sannyasi under Kirtanananda in the 1990's, who later became a drug addict, was infected with AIDS and is now a GBC. All of these deviants have snuck back within ISKCON and are now GBC leaders and Gurus.

[Gaea]

 

The following quote should help keep a full stop for all sentimental worship of gurus:

 

"A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated." - Tuesday, June 10, 1969, Letter to Mukunda.

 

So now you have got only one option: to believe all the ISKCON gurus are liberated. But... In our parampara there is no history of gurus dying from terrible diseases like cancer, or of dying in violent car accidents, but in ISKCON one after another the gurus are suffering from cancer, hepatitis, getting in car crash, being attacked with weapons, etc. Krishna protects his sincere devotees like Prahlada, he doesn't inflict them with cancer and aids (like GBC member and proposed women guru Malati). Krishna doesn't make "Krishnapada" have to amputate his leg before dying of cancer like Bhakti Tirtha Swami (who also supported homosexual marriages). Krishna doesn't make "Vishnupada" have a nervous breakdown like Harikesh, who ran off with 5 million dollars and a mansion in the Rivieras.

 

Most of the present ISKCON leadership such as Bhakti Tirtha Swami, Devamrita Swami, Radhanatha Swami, Umapati Swami, Bhaktisiddhanta Swami, Malati, Kuladri (ex-swami), etc. were all Kirtanananda followers who left ISKCON and followed Kirtanananda's teachings for years. Devamrita Swami was dressed in the Christian robes saying Kirtanananda was a pure devotee as late as 1994. Malati was a female sannyasi under Kirtanananda in the 1990's, who later became a drug addict, was infected with AIDS and is now a GBC. All of these deviants have snuck back within ISKCON and are now GBC leaders and Gurus.

 

Judgement is for Krsna to make. Not you. Even if any of these things are true, so what? Krsna is the ultimate authority by which they are redeemed or judged. In the eyes of the public a Guru may well look like a demon, but the HEART TO HEART RELATIONSHIP of person-to-Krsna and none of us can even begin to comment. Hell, we can't even comment about OUR OWN position let alone somebody else's.

 

If they're getting sick, so what? If they seem to be engaging in misdeeds, so what? ISKCON is Prabhupada's mission, a pure devotee no less. As such the happenings in ISKCON and other organisations/societyies are dealt hands according to KRsna's Will alone. If Krsna decides that such-and-such a person must be ill due to karma etc. then so be it. How can we make any logical conclusions, as if we understand the Grand Plan or as if we understand somebody's pprivate relationship with Krsna? Such "logical" conclusions or speculation amounts to one having too much time to complain. In fact, i don't want to spend even another second on this!!

[Kulapavana]

 

The following quote should help keep a full stop for all sentimental worship of gurus:

 

"A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated." - Tuesday, June 10, 1969, Letter to Mukunda.

 

So now you have got only one option: to believe all the ISKCON gurus are liberated.

 

what EXACTLY does it mean to be liberated in this context? and WHO makes the judgement? you, or the prospective disciple?

 

another option to the "only one" you list there: some of the Iskcon gurus are liberated. what, you dont believe Prabhupada could liberate at least some of his disciples?

 

do not place yourself between guru and his disciple. it is not your place. Krsna, as Sri Guru, guides all of us according to our desires and degree of surrender.

 

 

 

Most of the present ISKCON leadership such as Bhakti Tirtha Swami, Devamrita Swami, Radhanatha Swami, Umapati Swami, Bhaktisiddhanta Swami, Malati, Kuladri (ex-swami), etc. were all Kirtanananda followers who left ISKCON and followed Kirtanananda's teachings for years.

 

and it was Prabhupada who allowed this rascal Kirtanananda to manage and initiate disciples on his behalf for many years DESPITE very clear deviations and open challenges to his guru's teachings. do you think K. Swami appeared in our movement out of thin air? that guy was a confirmed deviant in 1969. You blame Kirtanananda for "contaminating" many of the current Iskcon leaders. Why not blame Prabhupada for keeping him in the movement in such a prominent role despite his dubious character?

 

Thuth is, Prabhupada had a plan, and he was full of mercy, hope and compassion. YOU and people like you have none of these things and that is why you will never amount to anything.

[ksbh]

What a load of nonsense. Typical ritvik ****.

 

What is so strange about some great personalities suffering from diseases? They are in a material body, so diseases are sometimes inevitable.

 

As regards your foolish claim that these great devotees are not bonafide because Krishna did not protect them, well then Haridas Thakur must have been a really fallen person because Mahaprabhu didn't protect him when he was being beaten and dragged through the market place. Get some intelligence!

 

 

The following quote should help keep a full stop for all sentimental worship of gurus:

 

"A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated." - Tuesday, June 10, 1969, Letter to Mukunda.

 

So now you have got only one option: to believe all the ISKCON gurus are liberated. But... In our parampara there is no history of gurus dying from terrible diseases like cancer, or of dying in violent car accidents, but in ISKCON one after another the gurus are suffering from cancer, hepatitis, getting in car crash, being attacked with weapons, etc. Krishna protects his sincere devotees like Prahlada, he doesn't inflict them with cancer and aids (like GBC member and proposed women guru Malati). Krishna doesn't make "Krishnapada" have to amputate his leg before dying of cancer like Bhakti Tirtha Swami (who also supported homosexual marriages). Krishna doesn't make "Vishnupada" have a nervous breakdown like Harikesh, who ran off with 5 million dollars and a mansion in the Rivieras.

 

Most of the present ISKCON leadership such as Bhakti Tirtha Swami, Devamrita Swami, Radhanatha Swami, Umapati Swami, Bhaktisiddhanta Swami, Malati, Kuladri (ex-swami), etc. were all Kirtanananda followers who left ISKCON and followed Kirtanananda's teachings for years. Devamrita Swami was dressed in the Christian robes saying Kirtanananda was a pure devotee as late as 1994. Malati was a female sannyasi under Kirtanananda in the 1990's, who later became a drug addict, was infected with AIDS and is now a GBC. All of these deviants have snuck back within ISKCON and are now GBC leaders and Gurus.

[Beggar]

Yes, when H.H. Bhakti Tirtha Swami became ill, it crossed my mind that, "why is he suffering so much maybe he has commited some offense?". But knowing that I am a conditioned soul and prone to fault finding I identified that thought as such and tried to check my mind. If even by some chance that thought is wrong and someone is really pure at heart, then my criticism would in itself be a big offense and perhaps immense suffering would fall upon me. Why take such a big risk? Fault finding of devotees is not a sport but rather glorifying devotees is a form of devotional service. Also, just because some devotees have a different opinion about certain siddhantic issues which in fact may be incorrect, it doesn't protect us from the reaction of personally criticizing a devotee. One can criticize the wrong idea but not make a personal attack upon the devotee for that is Vaisnava aparadha.

[Audarya-lila dasa]

This idea that a devotee who suffers from a debilitating or painful disease must be impure or some such thing is totally apasiddhantic. Just like the ganges may have garbage or be 'polluted' in so many ways from a material perspective, the spiritual perspective is that the ganges is pure and purifying. What did Mahaprabhu do when he saw the oozing sores on Sanatana Goswami's body?

 

In general it is not offensive to compare and contrast devotees and try to understand their respective positions. It becomes detrimental to devotion, however, when one attempts to put one devotee on a pedestal by stepping on or denigrating others.

 

Try to follow our acharyas and purify yourself rather than finding fault with others. If you don't find a particular devotee to be inspirational then don't closely associate with that person. Srila Prabhupada saw the potential in all of his disciples and engaged them accordingly.

 

Don't try to judge a devotees purity or lack thereof based on some material consideration. Was Bishma (one of the 12 Mahajanas identified in Srimad Bhagavatam that we are to follow) impure by your calculation because he met a violent end with arrows piercing his entire body? Honestly, try to follow our Lords instructions in his Sikshastakam. Honor all others. You show no honor to others by denigrating them - that should be readily apparent to you.

[Kulapavana]

Dear Bhagavad-Gita prabhu,

 

several devotees who spoke here are not even from Iskcon, and certainly have no hidden agenda. you should take their comments to heart because they represent the truth and the siddhanta of our tradition. give up such fault-finding mentality as it is only holding you back in your spiritual life.

 

your servant

[Visnu]

 

What a load of nonsense. Typical ritvik crap.

 

What is so strange about some great personalities suffering from diseases? They are in a material body, so diseases are sometimes inevitable.

"The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him. According to the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, therefore, after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions." (SB 10.4.20, purport)

 

Yes, you should really stop talking **** Mr ksbh.

[Visnu]

 

Was Bishma (one of the 12 Mahajanas identified in Srimad Bhagavatam that we are to follow) impure by your calculation because he met a violent end with arrows piercing his entire body?

 

Er, Bhismadeva's 'violent end' was a pastime:

 

"Bhishmadeva was endowed with the power of leaving his material body at will, and his lying down on the bed of arrows was his own choice." (SB 1.9.1, purport)

 

"Bhismadeva attained all these transcendental conditions prior to his leaving the material body because of presence of the Lord (...) Thus He provided all facilities to fulfill the transcendental desires of His great devotee Sri Bhismadeva, who began to pray as follows." (SB 1.9.31, purport)

 

This is somewhat different from a headlong car crash.

[Audarya-lila dasa]

Dear Visnu,

 

Why respond to only part of my post? I gave the example of the ganges because that is given to us as an intruction in hari-bhakti vilasa. It is used to illustrate the point that we are not to judge a vaishnava based on external/material considerations.

 

Maybe you can explain your comment better. Should I understand you to be saying if it is in scripture and about someone universally accepted as pure within our tradition we should view violent ends or diseased states as 'pastimes'? When the violent ends or diseased states are manifested in comtemporary vaishnavas we should see that as a result of their karma and a sign of impurity? Since your not stating any philosophical position or the point you are trying to make we are left to conjecture on our own what you think.

 

Better to follow scripture and see the good in all vaishnavas. What part of respect all others and expect no respect in return is unclear?

 

The very premise that started this thread is flawed and offensive at best. You cannot judge a vaishnava on such a basis and we are clearly instructed no to do so.