[sri ramanuja] Question of Avatara stutus of great personalities in Sri Sampraday

[Guest guest]

srImathE rAmAnujAya namah

 

There are purANic references, as well as incidents in their lives

that show that Ramanuja and ANdAL are none other than AdisEsha and

bhUdEvi repectively.

 

For Ramanuja, here are a few examples:

The authentic guru parampara prabhAvam quotes the following slOka

from a work known as nAradIyam yAdavAdri mahAthmiyam -

 

anantha: prathamam roopam lakshmaNascha satha: para: |

bhalabhadra: thrutheeyasthu kalau kaschid bhavishyathi ||

 

rough paraphrasing of the meaning of the above slOka is "anantha: is

the root moorthy; lakshmaNa is his next avathara; balarama is the

third avathara; as the fourth, in kaliyuga, he will take incarnation

as a mahapurusha".

 

An incident from Ramanuja's presence on this earth is also

illustrative - in thoNdanUr, near mElkOte, Ramanuja was once

challenged to a debate by thousands (the guru parampara prabhAvam

mentions panneeraayiram - 12,000) of jainas. During that time,

Ramanuja went behind a screen, took His original form of AdisEsha,

with thousands of hoods, and He debated all these jains and won

the debate, and many of them became His sishyAs.

 

Irrespective of the things like above, I think the most important

evidence is that our AchAryas have told us that Ramanuja is the

avatAra of AdisEsha Himself. Our AchAryAs say that AdisEsha took

avatAra as rAmanuja, lived for 120 years, and took avatAra again

as svAmi maNavALa mAmuni a few centuries later and completed His

tasks on earth.

 

KrishNa says in bhagavad gIta (3:21) -

"yad yadaacharathi srEshta: tat tat dEva itharO jana: |

sa yatpramANam kuruthE lOka: tat anuvarthathE ||

 

rough paraphrasing of meaning - "whatever those with knowledge and

practice of sAstrAs do, whatever extent they do, others in the world

do and follow"

 

here, rAmAnuja Himself, in gIta bhAsya says how to interpret - not

only does the world follow what these great people follow, but they

also follow exactly to the extent that these great people followed,

without any expansions/contractions to the practice - "yat pramANam

yadanga yuktham anutishtathi, tadangayuktham EVA akrutsnavid lOka:

api anuthistathi"

 

So, given that our AchAryAs have said and conducted themselves in a

way to respect/worship Ramanuja as AdisEsha, we need to follow them

exactly.

 

Regarding them not claiming to be who they really were, there is

another example - Rama did not generally claim that He is the supreme

being when He was here, nor did He display His visvarUpa form like

KrishNa did.

 

AzvhAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam,

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan,

varadhan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ramanuja, "Lakshmi Narasimhan"

<nrusimhann wrote:

>

> Dear Swamin,

> The answer lies in your question itself. I am just swapping the

> sequence of information present in your question:

> >From what i have learned from their life events, is that both were

> very humble and never claimed to be anything other than servants of

> the lord.

>

> > Now Sri Vaishnava sampradaya is 100% bonafide according to

> shrastras, i just wanted to know which shastras and authority

> provide us with the information that Sri Andal and Sri Ramanuja

are

> Bhudevi avatara and Sesha avatara respectively.

>

> Similar to Sri Kothai Naacchiyaar and Sri Emperumaanaar, bhudevi as

> well as adiseshan are humble servants of the lord. We must actually

> try proving whether Bhudevi and Sesha really have capabilities that

> could be compared with the former in terms of bhagavad and

> bhaagavada abhimaanam and priyam rather than vice-versa.

>

> adiyEn,

> rAmAnuja dAsan

>

>

>

>

> ramanuja, "tesh_tel" <tesh_tel@> wrote:

> >

> > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namah

> >

> > Dear devotees,

> > Jai Sri Krishna.

> >

> > I have one issue which i am keen to have some knowledge about.

In

> > Our dharma Sri Bhagavan and his associates periodicaly take form

> in

> > the material world for the uplift of Jivas. One unfortunate

> feature

> > of this beleif is that many wicked jivas take advantage of this

> > belief and claim themselves as God, some examples include King

> > Paundaraka in the Dwarapara Yuga (who claimed to be the real

> > krishna) and Puttarpathi saibaba in this yuga.

> >

> > Our shastras fortunalty provide validification of The avatars so

> > that we cannot be fooled. As we know by reading the shastras we

> have

> > no doubt that Sri Rama and Sri Krishna are the Supreme lord

> himself.

> > Now Sri Vaishnava sampradaya is 100% bonafide according to

> > shrastras, i just wanted to know which shastras and authority

> > provide us with the information that Sri Andal and Sri Ramanuja

> are

> > Bhudevi avatara and Sesha avatara respectively. From what i have

> > learned from their life events, is that both were very humble and

> > never claimed to be anything other than servants of the lord. I

> > cannot recall a time when Sri Andal or Guru Ramanuja displayed

> their

> > divine personalities. So how do we know of there true

identities???

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Lakshmi Narasimhan Swamin:

 

As you mentioned in mail, the reverse i.e., comparing

BhU dEvi and Seshan with SrI Andal, Ramanujar in terms

of bhagavat and bhaagavada abhimaanam is more than the

latter.

 

BhU dEvi after lifted by Sri VarAha moorthy, she asked

the way for the uj~eevanam of jeevAtmAs like us.

VarAha

moorthy explains the way through Varaha Carama Slokam

which is explained in Varaha Puranam.

(Rescue of BhU dEvi by emperumAn in Varaha avatAram

proves her bhagavad abhimaanam)

 

Due to her bhaagavada abhimaanam, she took avatar

as SrI Andal, and lead her life according to the

Varaha Carama Slokam so that , the latter jeevAtmAs

like us would attain the feet of Lord.!

 

Without Her kArunyam towards us, we wont get Thirup

pAvai now.

 

Similarly, sEshan is known for his service to Lord

at Sri vaikuntam as mentioned by alwar:

"senrAl kudaiyAm irunthAl singAsanamAm..."

-- muthal thiruvandhAdhi (53)

 

He is doing kainkaryam to Lord in all forms. This

proves his bhagavad abhimaanam. Similarly his birth

as Srimad Ramanujar proves his bhaagavada abhimaanam.

 

If there's any mistake please forgive and comments

ont this are welcome!

 

adiyEn,

senthil.b

 

 

--- Lakshmi Narasimhan <nrusimhann > wrote:

 

> Dear Swamin,

> The answer lies in your question itself. I am just

> swapping the

> sequence of information present in your question:

> >From what i have learned from their life events, is

> that both were

> very humble and never claimed to be anything other

> than servants of

> the lord.

>

> > Now Sri Vaishnava sampradaya is 100% bonafide

> according to

> shrastras, i just wanted to know which shastras and

> authority

> provide us with the information that Sri Andal and

> Sri Ramanuja are

> Bhudevi avatara and Sesha avatara respectively.

>

> Similar to Sri Kothai Naacchiyaar and Sri

> Emperumaanaar, bhudevi as

> well as adiseshan are humble servants of the lord.

> We must actually

> try proving whether Bhudevi and Sesha really have

> capabilities that

> could be compared with the former in terms of

> bhagavad and

> bhaagavada abhimaanam and priyam rather than

> vice-versa.

>

> adiyEn,

> rAmAnuja dAsan

>

>

>

>

> ramanuja, "tesh_tel"

> <tesh_tel wrote:

> >

> > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namah

> >

> > Dear devotees,

> > Jai Sri Krishna.

> >

> > I have one issue which i am keen to have some

> knowledge about. In

> > Our dharma Sri Bhagavan and his associates

> periodicaly take form

> in

> > the material world for the uplift of Jivas. One

> unfortunate

> feature

> > of this beleif is that many wicked jivas take

> advantage of this

> > belief and claim themselves as God, some examples

> include King

> > Paundaraka in the Dwarapara Yuga (who claimed to

> be the real

> > krishna) and Puttarpathi saibaba in this yuga.

> >

> > Our shastras fortunalty provide validification of

> The avatars so

> > that we cannot be fooled. As we know by reading

> the shastras we

> have

> > no doubt that Sri Rama and Sri Krishna are the

> Supreme lord

> himself.

> > Now Sri Vaishnava sampradaya is 100% bonafide

> according to

> > shrastras, i just wanted to know which shastras

> and authority

> > provide us with the information that Sri Andal and

> Sri Ramanuja

> are

> > Bhudevi avatara and Sesha avatara respectively.

> From what i have

> > learned from their life events, is that both were

> very humble and

> > never claimed to be anything other than servants

> of the lord. I

> > cannot recall a time when Sri Andal or Guru

> Ramanuja displayed

> their

> > divine personalities. So how do we know of there

> true identities???

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

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