Commitment in advaita sadhana - Diff between *knowledge* and*experience*

[Guest guest]

praNAms Sri Vishal (VD) prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

I am not a scholar nor I can anyway match with the calibers of great

knowledgeable advaita masters of this list like Sri Sunder Hattangadi

prabhuji, Sri Sadananda prabhuji, Sri VK Prof. prabhuji, Sri Subbu

prabhuji, Ananda Wood prabhuji, Sri Shyam prabhuji....list goes on and

on....You can wait for better responses/clarifications from them. In the

meantime, if you can permit me, with my limited understanding of shankara

vEdAnta, I shall share my view points for whatever it is worth.

 

VD prabhuji:

 

By *experience* here I mean the experience in NS, where the Ago has been

effaced, there is no mind as such in that state, all our samskaras have

been destroyed, only self is experienced by self.

 

bhaskar :

 

After hearing this, I am getting one more doubt about NS (camp-A members,

kindly excuse me:-)), if the self is experienced by self from the self

itself, if there is no trace of mind & its activities, if there is no dirt

of vAsana or vrutti-s, if the *ego* itself has been completely effaced,

what is that thing that is bringing back the experiencer of NS to this

avidyA plane onceagain ?? In otherwords, is there any *avidyA* in the

state of NS?? if the answer is yes...then how can this state be a *all

self* state?? if no, then what makes him the *return journey* from that

absolute non-dual state?? Kindly clarify this doubt.

 

VD prabhuji:

 

What is the difference between the *experience* (as mentioned above) and

the *knowledge* that is gained by Atma Vichara?

 

bhaskar :

 

I think Sri Sadananda prabhuji has recently explained beautifully what is

the difference between Knowledge and experience...Kindly go through it.

 

VD prabhuji:

 

The ultimate truth, common truth is Brahma the attributeless. Now it is

well accepted that the mind cannot comprehend the entity which is

attributeless and Atma Vichara involves mind and thinking. Is it not

contradictory?

 

bhaskar :

 

No, shruti itself clarifies this doubt. For example mAndUkya shruti says

Atman is brahman (ayamAtma brahma) and says brahman which is

unobjectificable has to be realized solely by means of the concept of

Atman. (yEkAtma pratyaya sAraM)...In the same line muNdaka shruti too says

that brahman which is the light of lights, only the knowers of Atman can

know. coz. nobody can deny their own existence...To know that Atman is

brahman nothing else, what is the tool to be used?? again shruti says

manasaimEvAptavyaM nEha nAnAsti kiNchana...(through mind only we have to

know that there is absolute non-duality)...shankara too in gIta bhAshya

says shama damAdhi susamskruta manaH Atma darshane karaNAm ( dont remember

exact bhAshya vAkya..)..Though mana/mind as antaHkaraNa, and even shAstra

which is ultimate pramANa are in the realm of avidyA, like kAtaka power

they dissolve themselves after helping us to remove our ignorance about our

true nature...says shankara...

 

VD prabhuji:

 

If it is not contradictory, does the final state of atma vichara trancend

the mind to comprehend the attributeless?

Does that comprehesion of attributless same as the *experience* of NS?

 

bhaskar :

 

shankara clearly says in sUtra bhAshya that jnAni's jnAna is not restricted

to *state specific* (avasthA vishEsha)..Hence, NS may not be the

appropriate state to define brahmAtma jnAna.

 

VD prabhuji:

 

My understanding is that to have the *knowledge* of the ultimate truth, to

remove the ignorance (avidya), we have to *experience* that ultimate truth

That *experience* is only possible by being in a state where self

experiences self (which is nothing but NS)

 

bhaskar :

 

Kindly see Sri Sadananda mail as mentioned above, *Atman* cannot be

objectifiable to *experience* it...the process of experience involves

tripad i.e. experiencer (jnAtru), experience (jnAna) and the object (jnEya)

being experienced...this tripad will not be there in Atma jnAna.

 

VD prabhuji :

 

I am still wondering how atma vichara which involves mind (product of maya

or avidya) and thinking (a process still in maya) can help comprehend the

ultimate truth. How can it give experience of that ultimate truth?

 

bhaskar :

 

kindly see above.

 

This is just few of my thoughts...

 

Om tat sat

Vishal

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar