Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear all : As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this recent ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to know what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I am a believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I know and admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was irresponsible and beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I would have at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only thing that supports him is his great contributions, there is no doubt about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even hundred good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a hungry poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY entitle me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his contributions, then we must same time also voice against the biased comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I personally was very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect this from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy people. Esp. on this international board where people from all over the world gather. I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji was argued with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he continued to stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. NOTHING can be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to accept his mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the greatness. Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his statement that as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the point of giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his mistake. Right? Still, people have different defition of justice and different styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to know what you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of it, and they all are equally important. Thanks for being a part of JR family. Regards Tanvir. What cannot happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies Where relief and solutions are found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Tanveer ji, Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which option; and when results are announced - that is often disclosed as well. Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding continuation of Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or when results are announced). The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs assurance from you, as to who will have access to the results !! regards / Prafulla Gang Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe rona aaya. ************************************************ > > tanweera (AT) zipbd (DOT) com > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > The poll > > Dear all : > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this recent > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to know > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I am a > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I know and > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was irresponsible and > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I would have > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only thing > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no doubt > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even hundred > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a hungry > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY entitle > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > contributions, then we must same time also voice against the biased > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I personally was > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect this > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy people. > Esp. on this international board where people from all over the > world gather. > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji was argued > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he continued to > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. NOTHING can > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to accept his > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > greatness. > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his statement that > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the point of > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his mistake. > Right? > > Still, people have different defition of justice and different > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to know what > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of it, and > they all are equally important. > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > Regards > Tanvir. > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Prafulla Ji I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so that people can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be reflected. In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not even I. I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a moderator. Still the option was kept as some of them raised the question. The poll will end about 2-4 days later. Thanks, Tanvir What cannot happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies Where relief and solutions are found , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which option; and when results are announced - that is often disclosed as well. > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding continuation of Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or when results are announced). > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs assurance from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe rona aaya. > > ************************************************ > > > > > > tanweera > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > The poll > > > > Dear all : > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this recent > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to know > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I am a > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I know and > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was irresponsible and > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I would have > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only thing > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no doubt > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even hundred > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a hungry > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY entitle > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > > contributions, then we must same time also voice against the biased > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I personally was > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect this > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy people. > > Esp. on this international board where people from all over the > > world gather. > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji was argued > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he continued to > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. NOTHING can > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to accept his > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > > greatness. > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his statement that > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the point of > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his mistake. > > Right? > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and different > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to know what > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of it, and > > they all are equally important. > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > Regards > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > remedies > > Where relief and solutions are found > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Tanvir ji, Many thanks for prompt response and clarification. In fact, the bigger issue - in past 24+ hours has not been that who should be the moderator (that way - as long as moderation norms are announced and adhered .. it really does not matter), but the ban. Since in this Poll - both are merged - it has compounded complexity. Yes, I appreciate - your concerns for JR, its members and democratic practice. regards / Prafulla Gang Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat pe rona aaya. ************************************************ > > tanweera (AT) zipbd (DOT) com > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:26:20 -0000 > > Re: The poll > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so that people > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be reflected. > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not even I. > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a moderator. > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the question. > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > Thanks, > Tanvir > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish > wrote: >> >> Dear Tanveer ji, >> >> Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which > option; and when results are announced - that is often disclosed as > well. >> >> Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding continuation of > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or when > results are announced). >> >> The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs assurance > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> >> Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat > pe rona aaya. >> >> ************************************************ >> >> >>> >>> tanweera >>> Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 >>> >>> The poll >>> >>> Dear all : >>> >>> As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this > recent >>> ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to know >>> what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I am a >>> believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I know > and >>> admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. >>> >>> I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was irresponsible and >>> beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I would > have >>> at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to >>> apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only thing >>> that supports him is his great contributions, there is no doubt >>> about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. >>> >>> However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even > hundred >>> good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a hungry >>> poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY > entitle >>> me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? >>> >>> If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his >>> contributions, then we must same time also voice against the > biased >>> comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I personally was >>> very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect this >>> from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy people. >>> Esp. on this international board where people from all over the >>> world gather. >>> >>> I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji was > argued >>> with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he continued > to >>> stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. NOTHING > can >>> be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to accept his >>> mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the >>> greatness. >>> >>> Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or >>> precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his statement > that >>> as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the point of >>> giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his > mistake. >>> Right? >>> >>> Still, people have different defition of justice and different >>> styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to know > what >>> you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of it, and >>> they all are equally important. >>> >>> Thanks for being a part of JR family. >>> >>> Regards >>> Tanvir. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> What cannot happen, can never happen. >>> Which is mine, is forever mine. >>> >>> http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) >>> Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving >>> remedies >>> Where relief and solutions are found >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Dear Tanvir, On the matter of whether to have one moderator or two, please consider the following: Assuming that the owner/moderator and the moderator (you and Ashutosh) have equal weighting in making decisions about members, then there could be situations where there may be a split vote. To avoid that there would have to be an odd number of moderators, like they have in supreme courts (odd numbers of judges to avoid ties). So, having three moderators (Tanvir, Ashutosh, third person) would make sense. This forum has strong polarizations so there are probably going to be situations where three votes would come in handy. Arjun ji has demonstrated his magnanimity, composure, maturity, depth of knowledge in many areas associated with jyotish and remedies and would be a good choice. This is assuming of course that he is willing to spend the time it takes to moderate effectively and thoroughly. Peacefulness must be something we all should actively cherish, promote and defend. Astrology is a sadhana and it can only be carried out when there is peace. When there is peace, one feels like contributing on astrological topics! Ranjan , "Tanvir Chowdhury" <tanweera wrote: > > Dear all : > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this recent > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to know > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I am a > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I know and > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was irresponsible and > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I would have > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only thing > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no doubt > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even hundred > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a hungry > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY entitle > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > contributions, then we must same time also voice against the biased > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I personally was > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect this > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy people. > Esp. on this international board where people from all over the > world gather. > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji was argued > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he continued to > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. NOTHING can > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to accept his > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > greatness. > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his statement that > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the point of > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his mistake. > Right? > > Still, people have different defition of justice and different > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to know what > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of it, and > they all are equally important. > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > Regards > Tanvir. > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Daer Tanvir, I have decided not to participate in the so called poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going to take. It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in the polls decide without knowing the full picture. I think you should allow emotions to cool down first, restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any case is not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras box. I have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the tenor of discussions.Democracy provides for this action. It has happened in some , when a split took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the permits forming . There are so many alernatives available. Best wishes. Satish , "Tanvir Chowdhury" <tanweera wrote: > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so that people > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be reflected. > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not even I. > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a moderator. > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the question. > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > Thanks, > Tanvir > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > remedies > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which > option; and when results are announced - that is often disclosed as > well. > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding continuation of > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or when > results are announced). > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs assurance > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat > pe rona aaya. > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this > recent > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to know > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I am a > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I know > and > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was irresponsible and > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I would > have > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only thing > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no doubt > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even > hundred > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a hungry > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY > entitle > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice against the > biased > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I personally was > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect this > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy people. > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all over the > > > world gather. > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji was > argued > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he continued > to > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. NOTHING > can > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to accept his > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > > > greatness. > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his statement > that > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the point of > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his > mistake. > > > Right? > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and different > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to know > what > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of it, and > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > Regards > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > remedies > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 dear friends as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is constructed, it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group OWNER. objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator moderator of this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to vote for ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that since many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he gave 3 out of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that bhaskarji can be reinstated based on this majority number. now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has done earlier: 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail against one member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but he has the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of removing an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even telling the group about it. 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm that dictatorial rule is here to stay. 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, he gets serious objection from several members that he is an athiest who cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in god, or he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way to greet a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on these observations. 5. when several people object to the appointment of asutoshji as a moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 options are given to vote FOR ashutoshji. all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain the moderator of this group because of his alignment with the dictatorship of the group owner. most group members who contribute their time, money and energy in reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now afraid that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall only by cutting (removing) all other members one by one. it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner and moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option for them of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his bad mails will be rejected and only good mails will be approved. that way also they can convey the message to the member that all his bad mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes of justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME IN AS MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the ban on bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects the moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this activity after much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator suggest that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose ban only in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is directly daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is cleary exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a decision on his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of asutoshji and not tanvirji. hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and please his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing members, beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and even if hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is volumes of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A PROCEDURAL BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN HE BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER HIS OWN LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY BECAUSE THE OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) IS MORE POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO ASUTOSHJI'S DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this group is most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving otherwise because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when the moderator does things which are not to the liking of the owner. this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the 100% all out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is members who constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator and majority of the members are interested in continuing to get into reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to this dictatorial authority with which active contributing members are removed ony by one. with best wishes and blessings pandit arjun , "R Satish" <rsatish1942 wrote: > > > Daer Tanvir, > > I have decided not to participate in the so called > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going to take. > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in the > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > I think you should allow emotions to cool down first, > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any case is > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? > > Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras box. I > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the tenor of > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > It has happened in some , when a split > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the permits > forming . > > There are so many alernatives available. > > Best wishes. > > > Satish > > > > > > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so that > people > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be reflected. > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not even I. > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a > moderator. > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the question. > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > Thanks, > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > remedies > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which > > option; and when results are announced - that is often disclosed > as > > well. > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding continuation > of > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such > > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or when > > results are announced). > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs assurance > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi baat > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this > > recent > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to > know > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I am > a > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I > know > > and > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was irresponsible > and > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I would > > have > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only > thing > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no doubt > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even > > hundred > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a > hungry > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY > > entitle > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice against the > > biased > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I personally > was > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect > this > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy > people. > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all over the > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji was > > argued > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he > continued > > to > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. > NOTHING > > can > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to accept > his > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his statement > > that > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the point > of > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his > > mistake. > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and different > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to know > > what > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of it, > and > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > > remedies > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Arjun ji, After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of astrology for some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few times, that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which has an institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a criticism of another group, let me say outright!), what would be the pragmatic reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the potential for destroying his creation? I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member here. Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why would a parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? RR , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear friends > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is constructed, > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group OWNER. > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator moderator of > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to vote for > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that since > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he gave 3 out > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that bhaskarji can > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has done > earlier: > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail against one > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but he has > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of removing > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even telling > the group about it. > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm that > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, he gets > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest who > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in god, or > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way to greet > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on these > observations. > 5. when several people object to the appointment of asutoshji as a > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 options are > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain the > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > dictatorship of the group owner. > > most group members who contribute their time, money and energy in > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now afraid > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall only by > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner and > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option for them > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his bad > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be approved. that > way also they can convey the message to the member that all his bad > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes of > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME IN AS > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the ban on > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects the > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this activity after > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator suggest > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose ban only > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is directly > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is cleary > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a decision on > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of asutoshji > and not tanvirji. > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and please > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing members, > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and even if > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is volumes > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A PROCEDURAL > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN HE > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER HIS OWN > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY BECAUSE THE > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) IS MORE > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO ASUTOSHJI'S > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this group is > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving otherwise > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when the > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the owner. > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the 100% all > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is members who > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator and > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get into > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to this > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members are > removed ony by one. > > with best wishes and blessings > pandit arjun > > , "R Satish" > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so called > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going to > take. > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in the > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool down > first, > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any case is > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras box. I > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the tenor > of > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > It has happened in some , when a split > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > permits > > forming . > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so that > > people > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be reflected. > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not even I. > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a > > moderator. > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the question. > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > remedies > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > <jyotish@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often disclosed > > as > > > well. > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > continuation > > of > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or > when > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > assurance > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi > baat > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this > > > recent > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to > > know > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I > am > > a > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I > > know > > > and > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > irresponsible > > and > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I > would > > > have > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only > > thing > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no > doubt > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even > > > hundred > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a > > hungry > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY > > > entitle > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice against the > > > biased > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > personally > > was > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect > > this > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy > > people. > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all over > the > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji > was > > > argued > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he > > continued > > > to > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. > > NOTHING > > > can > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to > accept > > his > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > statement > > > that > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the > point > > of > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his > > > mistake. > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > different > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to > know > > > what > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of > it, > > and > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > > > remedies > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear RRji in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever has created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people to come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss the subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions as well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has been most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all members which is his hallmark till date. however due to his preoccupation with his own life and having less time to answer queries in this group, few members like us have made this group like our own group and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our time, money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and great contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails that VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH HINDU (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES WHICH BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives in god. you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the potential knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to let his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not not improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups on the web. one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new moderator who got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels fit and that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which are not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, is a clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji and DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY AND GET BANNED BY HIM. you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would review his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS not in his favour when several members are openly objecting to his moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to stick to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let members judge him. as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge and also give and expect the same freedome and expression from others. hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision and ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as moderator. with best wishes pandit arjun , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Arjun ji, > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of astrology for > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few times, > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which has an > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a criticism of > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the pragmatic > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the potential for > destroying his creation? > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member here. > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why would a > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > RR > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear friends > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is constructed, > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group > OWNER. > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator moderator > of > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to vote for > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that since > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he gave 3 > out > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that bhaskarji can > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has done > > earlier: > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail against one > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but he has > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of removing > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even telling > > the group about it. > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm that > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, he > gets > > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest who > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in god, > or > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way to greet > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on these > > observations. > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of asutoshji as a > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 options > are > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain the > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and energy in > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now afraid > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall only by > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner and > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option for them > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his bad > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be approved. that > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all his bad > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes of > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME IN AS > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the ban on > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects the > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this activity > after > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator suggest > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose ban only > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is directly > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is cleary > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a decision on > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of asutoshji > > and not tanvirji. > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and please > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing members, > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and even if > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is volumes > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A PROCEDURAL > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN HE > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER HIS OWN > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY BECAUSE > THE > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) IS > MORE > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > ASUTOSHJI'S > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this group > is > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving otherwise > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when the > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the owner. > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the 100% all > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is members > who > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator and > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get into > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to this > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members are > > removed ony by one. > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > pandit arjun > > > > , "R Satish" > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so called > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going to > > take. > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in the > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool down > > first, > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any case is > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras box. > I > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the tenor > > of > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > It has happened in some , when a split > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > permits > > > forming . > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so that > > > people > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be reflected. > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not even I. > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a > > > moderator. > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the question. > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > > remedies > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > <jyotish@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > disclosed > > > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > continuation > > > of > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or > > when > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > > assurance > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi > > baat > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this > > > > recent > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want > to > > > know > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I > > am > > > a > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I > > > know > > > > and > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > irresponsible > > > and > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I > > would > > > > have > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only > > > thing > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no > > doubt > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even > > > > hundred > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a > > > hungry > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY > > > > entitle > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice against > the > > > > biased > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > personally > > > was > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect > > > this > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy > > > people. > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all over > > the > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji > > was > > > > argued > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he > > > continued > > > > to > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. > > > NOTHING > > > > can > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to > > accept > > > his > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning > or > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > statement > > > > that > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the > > point > > > of > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his > > > > mistake. > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > > different > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to > > know > > > > what > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of > > it, > > > and > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > solving > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Arjun ji, I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many members the wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision on very sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, but the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you want to call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It may make the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it does not take over the original film! Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and language and agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the heart! Who ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant (even the mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? RR , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear RRji > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever has > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people to > come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss the > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions as > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has been > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all members > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his preoccupation > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in this > group, few members like us have made this group like our own group > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our time, > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and great > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails that > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH HINDU > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES WHICH > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives in > god. > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the potential > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to let > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not not > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups on > the web. > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new moderator who > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels fit and > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which are > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, is a > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji and > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY AND > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would review > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS not in > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to stick > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let members > judge him. > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge and > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from others. > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision and > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as > moderator. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of astrology > for > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few > times, > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which has > an > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a criticism > of > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the pragmatic > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the potential > for > > destroying his creation? > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member here. > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why would a > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > RR > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > constructed, > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group > > OWNER. > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > moderator > > of > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to vote > for > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that > since > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he gave 3 > > out > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that bhaskarji > can > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has > done > > > earlier: > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail against > one > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but he > has > > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of > removing > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even > telling > > > the group about it. > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm that > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, he > > gets > > > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest who > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in > god, > > or > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way to > greet > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on these > > > observations. > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of asutoshji as > a > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 options > > are > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain the > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and energy > in > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now > afraid > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall only by > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner and > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option for > them > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his bad > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be approved. > that > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all his > bad > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes of > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME IN AS > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the ban on > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects the > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this activity > > after > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator > suggest > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose ban > only > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is directly > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is > cleary > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a decision > on > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of > asutoshji > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and > please > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing members, > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and even > if > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is > volumes > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > PROCEDURAL > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN HE > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER HIS > OWN > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY BECAUSE > > THE > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) IS > > MORE > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this > group > > is > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving > otherwise > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when the > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the owner. > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the 100% > all > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is members > > who > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator and > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get into > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to > this > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members are > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so > called > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going to > > > take. > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in > the > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool down > > > first, > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any case > is > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras > box. > > I > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the > tenor > > > of > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , when a > split > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > permits > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so > that > > > > people > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not > even I. > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a > > > > moderator. > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > question. > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > solving > > > > > remedies > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for > which > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > > disclosed > > > > as > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > continuation > > > > of > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when > such > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself > (or > > > when > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for > each > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > > > assurance > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi > kisi > > > baat > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about > this > > > > > recent > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I > want > > to > > > > know > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion > freely. I > > > am > > > > a > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. > (But I > > > > know > > > > > and > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > irresponsible > > > > and > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I > > > would > > > > > have > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask > him to > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The > only > > > > thing > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is > no > > > doubt > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing > even > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed > a > > > > hungry > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it > REALLY > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for > his > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice against > > the > > > > > biased > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > > personally > > > > was > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot > expect > > > > this > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy > > > > people. > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all > over > > > the > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar > Ji > > > was > > > > > argued > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he > > > > continued > > > > > to > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. > > > > NOTHING > > > > > can > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to > > > accept > > > > his > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is > the > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a > warning > > or > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > > statement > > > > > that > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the > > > point > > > > of > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit > his > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > > > different > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, > to > > > know > > > > > what > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part > of > > > it, > > > > and > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > solving > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear RRji let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE who explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS GODS and suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH ARE ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis of the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them have direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where planets and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but like living gods and demons. any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH REMEDIES, it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people with scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and not astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has not endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate planets, why these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are believing, practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non existing planets. so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and demons, they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do not beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so because they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO ENDORSE AND RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU MYTHOLOGY. what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. with best wishes pandit arjun , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Arjun ji, > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many members the > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision on very > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, but > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you want to > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It may make > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it does not > take over the original film! > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and language and > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the heart! Who > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant (even the > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > RR > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear RRji > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever has > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people to > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss the > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions as > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has > been > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all members > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his preoccupation > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in this > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own group > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our time, > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and great > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails > that > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH HINDU > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES WHICH > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives in > > god. > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the potential > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to let > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not not > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups on > > the web. > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new moderator > who > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels fit > and > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which are > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, is a > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji and > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY AND > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would > review > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS not > in > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to > stick > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > members > > judge him. > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge and > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from others. > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision and > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as > > moderator. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of astrology > > for > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few > > times, > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which has > > an > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a criticism > > of > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the pragmatic > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the potential > > for > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member here. > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why would a > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > constructed, > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group > > > OWNER. > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > moderator > > > of > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to vote > > for > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that > > since > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he gave > 3 > > > out > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that bhaskarji > > can > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has > > done > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail against > > one > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but he > > has > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of > > removing > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even > > telling > > > > the group about it. > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm > that > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, he > > > gets > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest > who > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in > > god, > > > or > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way to > > greet > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on these > > > > observations. > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of asutoshji > as > > a > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > options > > > are > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain the > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and energy > > in > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now > > afraid > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall only > by > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner > and > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option for > > them > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his > bad > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be approved. > > that > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all his > > bad > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes of > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME IN > AS > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the ban > on > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects the > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this activity > > > after > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator > > suggest > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose ban > > only > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is directly > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is > > cleary > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a decision > > on > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of > > asutoshji > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and > > please > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > members, > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and even > > if > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is > > volumes > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > PROCEDURAL > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN HE > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER HIS > > OWN > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > BECAUSE > > > THE > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) IS > > > MORE > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this > > group > > > is > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving > > otherwise > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when the > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the owner. > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the 100% > > all > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > members > > > who > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator and > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get > into > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to > > this > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members > are > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so > > called > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going > to > > > > take. > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in > > the > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool down > > > > first, > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any > case > > is > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras > > box. > > > I > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the > > tenor > > > > of > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , when a > > split > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > permits > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so > > that > > > > > people > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > solving > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for > > which > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > > > disclosed > > > > > as > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > continuation > > > > > of > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when > > such > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself > > (or > > > > when > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for > > each > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > > > > assurance > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi > > kisi > > > > baat > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about > > this > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I > > want > > > to > > > > > know > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion > > freely. I > > > > am > > > > > a > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. > > (But I > > > > > know > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > irresponsible > > > > > and > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I > > > > would > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask > > him to > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The > > only > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is > > no > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing > > even > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed > > a > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it > > REALLY > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for > > his > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > against > > > the > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > > > personally > > > > > was > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot > > expect > > > > > this > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to > needy > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all > > over > > > > the > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar > > Ji > > > > was > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he > > > > > continued > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to > > > > accept > > > > > his > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is > > the > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a > > warning > > > or > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > > > statement > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is > the > > > > point > > > > > of > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit > > his > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > > > > different > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, > > to > > > > know > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part > > of > > > > it, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > > solving > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Arjun ji, It is sad that we are talking to each other like this, in this mien which may smack of confrontation to those who would love to run with that! There is a lot of politics and politicians that have invaded astrology, particularly jyotish. But we must point that out and then not dwell on that and carry on our conversation and sharing, at least just the two of us who have been brought close by Destiny that goes beyond just jyotish! The following I submit for your kind and wise consideration: I am glad that you are not limiting the usefulness of jyotish/astrology just to those who believe in Hindu Gods but GOD! If a true atheist does come upon astrology (I respectfully submit that even for the scientist (much hated, ill understood on this forum and for that matter in the jyotish context even in revered journals and magazines on astrology earlier!), NATURE IS THE GOD, even if not stated in those terms, the exact three letter word, that is!). And, about rahu and ketu -- the last time I studied Brihatjatakam by Sage Varahamihira, there was no mention of rahu and ketu, therein! Jyotish for most rests on three pillars: Parashara, Varahamihira and Jaimini! Just because the lunar nodes were not mentioned or widely discussed in Brihajjataka, I would not hastily take it off my Jyotish puja- sthal! RR , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear RRji > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE who > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS GODS and > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH ARE > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis of > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them have > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where planets > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but like > living gods and demons. > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH REMEDIES, > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people with > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and not > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has not > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate planets, why > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are believing, > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non existing > planets. > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and demons, > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do not > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so because > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO ENDORSE AND > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > MYTHOLOGY. > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many members > the > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision on > very > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, but > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you want to > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It may > make > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it does > not > > take over the original film! > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and language > and > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the heart! > Who > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant (even > the > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever > has > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people > to > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss > the > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions > as > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has > > been > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all > members > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > preoccupation > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in this > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own > group > > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our > time, > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and > great > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails > > that > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH > HINDU > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES WHICH > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives > in > > > god. > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > potential > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to > let > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not not > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups > on > > > the web. > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new moderator > > who > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels fit > > and > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which > are > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, is > a > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji > and > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY > AND > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would > > review > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS > not > > in > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to > > stick > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > > members > > > judge him. > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge and > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from > others. > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision and > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as > > > moderator. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > astrology > > > for > > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few > > > times, > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which > has > > > an > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a > criticism > > > of > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the > pragmatic > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > potential > > > for > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member > here. > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why > would a > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > > constructed, > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group > > > > OWNER. > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > > moderator > > > > of > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to > vote > > > for > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that > > > since > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he > gave > > 3 > > > > out > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > bhaskarji > > > can > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has > > > done > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail > against > > > one > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but > he > > > has > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of > > > removing > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even > > > telling > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm > > that > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, > he > > > > gets > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest > > who > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in > > > god, > > > > or > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way > to > > > greet > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on > these > > > > > observations. > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > asutoshji > > as > > > a > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > > options > > > > are > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain > the > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and > energy > > > in > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now > > > afraid > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall > only > > by > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner > > and > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option > for > > > them > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his > > bad > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > approved. > > > that > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all > his > > > bad > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes > of > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME > IN > > AS > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the > ban > > on > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects > the > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this > activity > > > > after > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator > > > suggest > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose > ban > > > only > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is > directly > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is > > > cleary > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a > decision > > > on > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of > > > asutoshji > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and > > > please > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > > members, > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and > even > > > if > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is > > > volumes > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN > HE > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER > HIS > > > OWN > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > > BECAUSE > > > > THE > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) > IS > > > > MORE > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this > > > group > > > > is > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving > > > otherwise > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when > the > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the > owner. > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the > 100% > > > all > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > > members > > > > who > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator > and > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get > > into > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to > > > this > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members > > are > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so > > > called > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you > going > > to > > > > > take. > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group > in > > > the > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool > down > > > > > first, > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any > > case > > > is > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > pandoras > > > box. > > > > I > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with > the > > > tenor > > > > > of > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , when > a > > > split > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > > > permits > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > Chowdhury" > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so > > > that > > > > > > people > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji > a > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > > solving > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted > for > > > which > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > > > > disclosed > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > > continuation > > > > > > of > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when > > > such > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator > himself > > > (or > > > > > when > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote > for > > > each > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi > > > kisi > > > > > baat > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. > about > > > this > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I > > > want > > > > to > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion > > > freely. I > > > > > am > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. > > > (But I > > > > > > know > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were > there I > > > > > would > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would > ask > > > him to > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. > The > > > only > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there > is > > > no > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, > doing > > > even > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may > feed > > > a > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it > > > REALLY > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji > for > > > his > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > > against > > > > the > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > > > > personally > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot > > > expect > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to > > needy > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from > all > > > over > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though > Bhaskar > > > Ji > > > > > was > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments > he > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > statement. > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses > to > > > > > accept > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake > is > > > the > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a > > > warning > > > > or > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > > > > statement > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is > > the > > > > > point > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to > admit > > > his > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is > for, > > > to > > > > > know > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a > part > > > of > > > > > it, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > problem > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear RR ji my submission of FACTS IS ONLY ON VEDIC ASTROLOGY, VALIDATION OF RAHU AND KETU ONLY IN HINDU MYTHOLOGY, REJECTION OF RAHU AND KETU IN ALL OTHER SYSTEMS OF ASTROLOGY IN THE WEST. a person who practice vedic astroogy and pinpoint a problem to rahu or ketu has to first believe in rahu and ketu which are mythical and non existing according to the west and also the scientific community. astronomy also has no validation of rahu and ketu. in the west, uranus, neptune and pluto are referred most and they are attributed to so many positive and negative results of a native which are not at all considered in the vedic jyotish. my only submission is that if a person is preaching and practicing vedic jyotish, HE MUST BE BELIEVING AND ACCEPTING HINDU MYTHOLOGY, otherwise what he says has no validation. if you ask myself, yes i believe hindu mythology and vedic astrology built entirely on hindu mythology. i know many westerners like gauranga das of brihaspati.com who believed, accepted, learnt, practised and preached vedic astrology and i too learnt a few interesting lessons from his website www.brihaspati.net so my observation BASED ON FACTS is that one can practice vedic jyotish containing rahu and ketu only if he believes hindu mythology, otherwise he has no validation to support his service in the name of vedic jyotish. with best wishes pandit arjun , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Arjun ji, > > It is sad that we are talking to each other like this, in this mien > which may smack of confrontation to those who would love to run with > that! There is a lot of politics and politicians that have invaded > astrology, particularly jyotish. But we must point that out and then > not dwell on that and carry on our conversation and sharing, at least > just the two of us who have been brought close by Destiny that goes > beyond just jyotish! > > The following I submit for your kind and wise consideration: > > I am glad that you are not limiting the usefulness of > jyotish/astrology just to those who believe in Hindu Gods but GOD! If > a true atheist does come upon astrology (I respectfully submit that > even for the scientist (much hated, ill understood on this forum and > for that matter in the jyotish context even in revered journals and > magazines on astrology earlier!), NATURE IS THE GOD, even if not > stated in those terms, the exact three letter word, that is!). > > And, about rahu and ketu -- the last time I studied Brihatjatakam by > Sage Varahamihira, there was no mention of rahu and ketu, therein! > Jyotish for most rests on three pillars: Parashara, Varahamihira and > Jaimini! > > Just because the lunar nodes were not mentioned or widely discussed > in Brihajjataka, I would not hastily take it off my Jyotish puja- > sthal! > > RR > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear RRji > > > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE who > > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS GODS > and > > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH ARE > > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis of > > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them > have > > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where planets > > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but like > > living gods and demons. > > > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH > REMEDIES, > > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people with > > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and not > > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has not > > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate planets, > why > > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are believing, > > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non existing > > planets. > > > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and > demons, > > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do not > > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so because > > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO ENDORSE > AND > > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > > MYTHOLOGY. > > > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many members > > the > > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision on > > very > > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, > but > > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you want > to > > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It may > > make > > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it does > > not > > > take over the original film! > > > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and language > > and > > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the heart! > > Who > > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant (even > > the > > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever > > has > > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people > > to > > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss > > the > > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions > > as > > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has > > > been > > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all > > members > > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > > preoccupation > > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in > this > > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own > > group > > > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our > > time, > > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and > > great > > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails > > > that > > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH > > HINDU > > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT > > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES > WHICH > > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives > > in > > > > god. > > > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody > > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > > potential > > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have > > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several > > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to > > let > > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing > > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not > not > > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING > > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups > > on > > > > the web. > > > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new > moderator > > > who > > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels > fit > > > and > > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which > > are > > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, > is > > a > > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji > > and > > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY > > AND > > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would > > > review > > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS > > not > > > in > > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to > > > stick > > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > > > members > > > > judge him. > > > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair > > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge > and > > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from > > others. > > > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision > and > > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > > astrology > > > > for > > > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few > > > > times, > > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which > > has > > > > an > > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a > > criticism > > > > of > > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the > > pragmatic > > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > > potential > > > > for > > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member > > here. > > > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why > > would a > > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > > > constructed, > > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the > group > > > > > OWNER. > > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > > > moderator > > > > > of > > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to > > vote > > > > for > > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that > > > > since > > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he > > gave > > > 3 > > > > > out > > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > > bhaskarji > > > > can > > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he > has > > > > done > > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail > > against > > > > one > > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but > > he > > > > has > > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of > > > > removing > > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even > > > > telling > > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm > > > that > > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as > moderator, > > he > > > > > gets > > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an > athiest > > > who > > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes > in > > > > god, > > > > > or > > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way > > to > > > > greet > > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on > > these > > > > > > observations. > > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > > asutoshji > > > as > > > > a > > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > > > options > > > > > are > > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain > > the > > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and > > energy > > > > in > > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now > > > > afraid > > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall > > only > > > by > > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators > (owner > > > and > > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option > > for > > > > them > > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all > his > > > bad > > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > > approved. > > > > that > > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all > > his > > > > bad > > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes > > of > > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME > > IN > > > AS > > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial > functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the > > ban > > > on > > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects > > the > > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this > > activity > > > > > after > > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator > > > > suggest > > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose > > ban > > > > only > > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is > > directly > > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is > > > > cleary > > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a > > decision > > > > on > > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of > > > > asutoshji > > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and > > > > please > > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > > > members, > > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and > > even > > > > if > > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is > > > > volumes > > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND > WHEN > > HE > > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER > > HIS > > > > OWN > > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > > > BECAUSE > > > > > THE > > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR > (ASHUOTHJI) > > IS > > > > > MORE > > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this > > > > group > > > > > is > > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving > > > > otherwise > > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when > > the > > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the > > owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the > > 100% > > > > all > > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > > > members > > > > > who > > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator > > and > > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get > > > into > > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end > to > > > > this > > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing > members > > > are > > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the > so > > > > called > > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you > > going > > > to > > > > > > take. > > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule > group > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool > > down > > > > > > first, > > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any > > > case > > > > is > > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the > > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > > pandoras > > > > box. > > > > > I > > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with > > the > > > > tenor > > > > > > of > > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , when > > a > > > > split > > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > > > > > permits > > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > > Chowdhury" > > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity > so > > > > that > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, > not > > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji > > a > > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > > > solving > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted > > for > > > > which > > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > > > > > disclosed > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > > > continuation > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, > when > > > > such > > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator > > himself > > > > (or > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote > > for > > > > each > > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, > needs > > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni > hi > > > > kisi > > > > > > baat > > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. > > about > > > > this > > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. > I > > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion > > > > freely. I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must > add. > > > > (But I > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) > > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were > > there I > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would > > ask > > > > him to > > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. > > The > > > > only > > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there > > is > > > > no > > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, > > doing > > > > even > > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may > > feed > > > > a > > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it > > > > REALLY > > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of > > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji > > for > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > > > against > > > > > the > > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > > > > > personally > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we > cannot > > > > expect > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to > > > needy > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from > > all > > > > over > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though > > Bhaskar > > > > Ji > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments > > he > > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > > statement. > > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses > > to > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept > mistake > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a > > > > warning > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about > his > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what > is > > > the > > > > > > point > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to > > admit > > > > his > > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice > and > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is > > for, > > > > to > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a > > part > > > > of > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > > problem > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear List Members: If it were me, I'd prefer the word "suspended" be used instead of "banned." Banned is so final. Judgements have been reversed and there is less of a stigma on the one who's been suspended. I think each one of us has probably been worthy of suspension at some point in time when not on our best behavior. Astrologers are under so much pressure to be right in their judgments, and to be true to the spirit of astrology, that strong differences of opinions will often arise out of this. hp , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Arjun ji, > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many members the > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision on very > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, but > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you want to > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It may make > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it does not > take over the original film! > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and language and > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the heart! Who > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant (even the > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > RR > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear RRji > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever has > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people to > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss the > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions as > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has > been > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all members > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his preoccupation > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in this > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own group > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our time, > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and great > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails > that > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH HINDU > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES WHICH > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives in > > god. > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the potential > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to let > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not not > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups on > > the web. > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new moderator > who > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels fit > and > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which are > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, is a > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji and > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY AND > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would > review > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS not > in > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to > stick > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > members > > judge him. > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge and > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from others. > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision and > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as > > moderator. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of astrology > > for > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few > > times, > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which has > > an > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a criticism > > of > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the pragmatic > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the potential > > for > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member here. > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why would a > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > constructed, > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group > > > OWNER. > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > moderator > > > of > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to vote > > for > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that > > since > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he gave > 3 > > > out > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that bhaskarji > > can > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has > > done > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail against > > one > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but he > > has > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of > > removing > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even > > telling > > > > the group about it. > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm > that > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, he > > > gets > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest > who > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in > > god, > > > or > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way to > > greet > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on these > > > > observations. > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of asutoshji > as > > a > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > options > > > are > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain the > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and energy > > in > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now > > afraid > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall only > by > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner > and > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option for > > them > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his > bad > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be approved. > > that > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all his > > bad > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes of > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME IN > AS > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the ban > on > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects the > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this activity > > > after > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator > > suggest > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose ban > > only > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is directly > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is > > cleary > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a decision > > on > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of > > asutoshji > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and > > please > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > members, > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and even > > if > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is > > volumes > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > PROCEDURAL > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN HE > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER HIS > > OWN > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > BECAUSE > > > THE > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) IS > > > MORE > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this > > group > > > is > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving > > otherwise > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when the > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the owner. > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the 100% > > all > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > members > > > who > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator and > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get > into > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to > > this > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members > are > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so > > called > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going > to > > > > take. > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in > > the > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool down > > > > first, > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any > case > > is > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras > > box. > > > I > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the > > tenor > > > > of > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , when a > > split > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > permits > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so > > that > > > > > people > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > solving > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for > > which > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > > > disclosed > > > > > as > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > continuation > > > > > of > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when > > such > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself > > (or > > > > when > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for > > each > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > > > > assurance > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi > > kisi > > > > baat > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about > > this > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I > > want > > > to > > > > > know > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion > > freely. I > > > > am > > > > > a > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. > > (But I > > > > > know > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > irresponsible > > > > > and > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I > > > > would > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask > > him to > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The > > only > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is > > no > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing > > even > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed > > a > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it > > REALLY > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for > > his > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > against > > > the > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > > > personally > > > > > was > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot > > expect > > > > > this > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to > needy > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all > > over > > > > the > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar > > Ji > > > > was > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he > > > > > continued > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to > > > > accept > > > > > his > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is > > the > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a > > warning > > > or > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > > > statement > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is > the > > > > point > > > > > of > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit > > his > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > > > > different > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, > > to > > > > know > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part > > of > > > > it, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > > solving > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Members, Pundit Arjun has very competantly summed up the situation. I agree with his remarks. I am a regular visitor here. Now and then I have contributed in the past. And yet I was so concerned about the group. The number of postings to the group has already come down, and it might slide down even further. Well, so be it. With naman to all Gurujan, Varun Trivedi , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear friends > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is constructed, > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group OWNER. > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator moderator of > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to vote for > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that since > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he gave 3 out > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that bhaskarji can > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has done > earlier: > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail against one > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but he has > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of removing > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even telling > the group about it. > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm that > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, he gets > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest who > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in god, or > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way to greet > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on these > observations. > 5. when several people object to the appointment of asutoshji as a > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 options are > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain the > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > dictatorship of the group owner. > > most group members who contribute their time, money and energy in > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now afraid > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall only by > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner and > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option for them > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his bad > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be approved. that > way also they can convey the message to the member that all his bad > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes of > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME IN AS > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the ban on > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects the > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this activity after > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator suggest > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose ban only > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is directly > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is cleary > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a decision on > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of asutoshji > and not tanvirji. > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and please > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing members, > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and even if > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is volumes > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A PROCEDURAL > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN HE > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER HIS OWN > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY BECAUSE THE > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) IS MORE > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO ASUTOSHJI'S > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this group is > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving otherwise > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when the > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the owner. > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the 100% all > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is members who > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator and > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get into > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to this > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members are > removed ony by one. > > with best wishes and blessings > pandit arjun > > , "R Satish" > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so called > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you going to > take. > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group in the > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool down > first, > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any case is > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the hassle? > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a pandoras box. I > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with the tenor > of > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > It has happened in some , when a split > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > permits > > forming . > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so that > > people > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be reflected. > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not even I. > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji a > > moderator. > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the question. > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > remedies > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > <jyotish@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted for which > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often disclosed > > as > > > well. > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > continuation > > of > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when such > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator himself (or > when > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote for each > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > assurance > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi kisi > baat > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. about this > > > recent > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I want to > > know > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion freely. I > am > > a > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. (But I > > know > > > and > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > irresponsible > > and > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were there I > would > > > have > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would ask him to > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. The only > > thing > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there is no > doubt > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, doing even > > > hundred > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may feed a > > hungry > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it REALLY > > > entitle > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of feeding? > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji for his > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice against the > > > biased > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > personally > > was > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot expect > > this > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to needy > > people. > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from all over > the > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though Bhaskar Ji > was > > > argued > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments he > > continued > > > to > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier statement. > > NOTHING > > > can > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses to > accept > > his > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake is the > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a warning or > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > statement > > > that > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the > point > > of > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit his > > > mistake. > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > different > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is for, to > know > > > what > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a part of > it, > > and > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish) > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving > > > > > remedies > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > statement > > > > that > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the > > point > > > of > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit > his > > > > mistake. > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > Dear members, I have been following the debate for some days. Just wanted to make one humble suggestion. Even if the administrators know or they think they know in advance( based on past evidence), how someone is going to react to a rule/regulation/stipulation/information, it is still mandatory to go through the process if it is to be called a democracy. Even if the Indian government knows in advance, going by common sense, that serving court summons on Dawood Ibrahim isn't going to make him actually appear in the court, it is still the democratic responsiblity and the duty of the Govt. to carry it out. From Dawood's point of view, he can't be arrested either, untill there is a court order and an arrest warrant out for him. Its like someone saying why should anyone even try to hold fair polls in Bihar since they are going to be rigged anyway. But a democracy can't skip over one step based on the advanced anticipation of what a concerned party might do or how they will react to the information. That information has to be given out nonetheless and then when the concerned party behaves in the anticipated manner, by all means go ahead and do whatever needs to be done based on that action. If on the other hand, the concerned party surprises everyone and doesn't behave in the manner that was anticipated, then appropriate responses based on that new unanticipated behaviour must be made. Let's not confuse facts. This is not really democracy. This is a group started by someone and they obviously are entitled to do what they feel is the best. And why not. After all it was them who put in the time and effort to make this a successful popular group. They should retain that right. I think the problem lies in our expectations that it should be a democracy. Just a humble note. I love reading all the mails here and keep hoping that this astrological community will go on to more success. Best Regards Shiva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Shiva Ji Your concern and rational post is truly appreciated. Just a little clarification. I did not claim that I knew how he (Bhaskar Ji) is going to react. I just meant that what he said was not a mistake, outbirst, or slip of the toungue but rather his own thoughtful statement and belief. And there the problem was. When someone makes a mistake, feels it, and determines not to repeat it, he has nothing to take action against. But here Bhaskar Ji was opposed by some members and still he STICKS TO his initial statement, which was about hatred of Pakistan. That is why it was not his mistake, or unwilling outbirst. But he really believes that and fights to prove it true. There was the problem, and that is why I said that as he prefers to stick to the statement, Ashutosh Ji in once sense was right not to warn him again. Because Bhaskar Ji did not think that it was his mistake, and he fights to prove it right. It is of course not about knowing future action. I am not in favour of punishing someone for a crime that he did not commit yet. It makes no sense to me :-) As blamed as a dictator, autocratic by a small team here, I am really not so. Nor I have anything to do with Pakistan. It is about spreding hateful and disrespectful comments about a nation or group of people like a madman, that offenses me. Many of the Muslims also are prejudiced about Hindus, they don't like them. And when someone from my friends or relatives speak ill of Hinduism, I always protest. It is not about MY RELIGION or ISLAM or anything. It is about the truth. All Pakistanis cannot be bad. That is a madman's statement. Nor that a person from Pakistan cannot deserve karmic remedies. Is that so that a Muslim doctor should not be treating a Hindu patient, or vice versa? All the best, Tanvir , "theblisswithin" <theblisswithin wrote: > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > > statement > > > > > that > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is the > > > point > > > > of > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to admit > > his > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > Dear members, > > I have been following the debate for some days. > Just wanted to make one humble suggestion. > > Even if the administrators know or they think they know in advance( > based on past evidence), how someone is going to react to a > rule/regulation/stipulation/information, it is still mandatory to go > through the process if it is to be called a democracy. > > Even if the Indian government knows in advance, going by common sense, > that serving court summons on Dawood Ibrahim isn't going to make him > actually appear in the court, it is still the democratic responsiblity > and the duty of the Govt. to carry it out. From Dawood's point of > view, he can't be arrested either, untill there is a court order and > an arrest warrant out for him. > > Its like someone saying why should anyone even try to hold fair polls > in Bihar since they are going to be rigged anyway. But a democracy > can't skip over one step based on the advanced anticipation of what a > concerned party might do or how they will react to the information. > > That information has to be given out nonetheless and then when the > concerned party behaves in the anticipated manner, by all means go > ahead and do whatever needs to be done based on that action. If on the > other hand, the concerned party surprises everyone and doesn't behave > in the manner that was anticipated, then appropriate responses based > on that new unanticipated behaviour must be made. > > Let's not confuse facts. This is not really democracy. This is a > group started by someone and they obviously are entitled to do what > they feel is the best. And why not. After all it was them who put in > the time and effort to make this a successful popular group. They > should retain that right. I think the problem lies in our expectations > that it should be a democracy. > > Just a humble note. I love reading all the mails here and keep hoping > that this astrological community will go on to more success. > > Best Regards > Shiva > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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