Bankabihari pujari fired after giving Krsna cellphone to callRadhika

[Guest guest]

For once, it's not ISKCON. :-)

 

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:06 -0400, Narasimha44 (AT) aol (DOT) com <Narasimha44 (AT) aol (DOT) com>

wrote:

>

> Krishna in Jeans' Priest Relieved of Duty

> BY: SUN STAFF

> Sep 19, VRINDAVAN, INDIA (SUN) — Jugal Goswami, the priest of the famous

> Banke Bihari temple, has been relieved from duty on Monday for three days

> as a

> penalty for dressing Lord Krishna in jeans, T-shirt and a cell phone. This

> modern

> 'western' look led to strong protests in the holy town and raised a public

> outrage.

> Activists of groups like Bajrang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP)

> termed

> the move blasphemy and burnt effigies of the priests. They demanded that

> "those

>

> who defiled the sanctity of the temple" be punished.

> General secretary of Uttar Pradesh, Shashtrarth Samiti and secretary of

> Kashi

> Yuva Vidvat Parishad, Dr. Ram Narayan Dwivedi, who is also priest at the

> Annapurna temple, demanded strong action against those involved. He said,

> "The

> Hindu community would never tolerate such insult of its Deities. It was an

> attempt to show the influence and supremacy of Western culture over Hindu

> culture

> and religion," he said.

> Goswami apologised over the incident, and urged people not to turn what

> was

> an innocent prank into a big political issue. "We devotees of Banke Behari

> are

> very much concerned and this should not be lend any political colour by

> the

> political parties," he said.

> Gokal Behari Das, Mahant of the temple said, "This is a shameful work.

> Lord

> Krishna was wearing T-shirt and a jean is really insulting. We want that

> the

> people who are involved in this degrading crime should be arrested",

> Sanskrit scholars characterized the event as the "wanton callousness" of

> the

> Vrindavan priests. Vrindavan one of the holiest places of the Hindu

> religion,

> remained completely closed on Monday.

>

>

> -----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email to:

> ISKCON.India-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

>

[Guest guest]

PAMHO AGTSP

 

Actually when you think about it, Sri Krsna did use His flute to call

the Gopikas, so a modern equivalent could be a cell phone. Though I

do not condone the dressing of Bihariji in jeans and T-shirt or even

his holding of a cell phone, Hari Bhakti Vilasa does state that the

deity can be dressed in local fashions, obviously these have to be

sattvic attire. Just as the offering of local foods have also to be

sattvic. I believe that there are deities in ISKCON that have

wristwatches. And there are some who have worn false eyelashes, even

(colored) contact lenses. We might also contemplate when was the last

time we actually saw Srimati Radharani in Her deity form actually

wearing a sari rather than a dress? If it comes to that, what style

would she wear Her sari in? In the different parts of India people

have dressed their deities in local styles. Just see the difference

in dressing style in South, North, Manipur, Bali, etc. ISKCON Gaura

Nitai or Krsna Balaram deities often wear pants rather than dhoties.

Also even though bare chested male deities are often seen in India or

even deities of Lord Krsna wearing only kaupina, such may not be

acceptable attire in Western temples. Speaking of what's acceptable

please visit the Krsna shrine within the famous Ananta Padmanabha

temple in Tiruvanantapuram (Trivendrum), capital of Kerala. You will

see there many depictions of Lord Krsna with His bare breasted queens

Rukmini and Satyabhama. Of course in many places in South India that

was a quite acceptable way for females to dress in ancient times. I

mention all these things simply to get devotees to think about

certain cultural traditions that may seem foreign to them, may

actually be acceptable in certain contexts.

 

your servant,

 

Gaura Keshava das

[Guest guest]

dandavat pranams Prabhuji

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

We follow the Goswamis of Vrindavan that would never condone Krsna wearing

pants, shirts and cellphone...the Lord has no need of cellphone His flute is

superior to a demoniac device like a cellphone that causes brain cancer, plus

Krsnas flute has many functions like causing the Yamuna to flow backwards, and

stunning all jivas, certain note is meant for Radhika the Venu flute is meant

for Radhika and the Gopis there is longer flutes that are meant for calling the

 

cows and Sakhas.....so if anyone think they can replace Krsnas flute

with a cellphone they are in maya, may Krsna's flute who is a transcendental

personality Vamsivadana that appeared in Caitanya lila take pity of such a

poor understanding and

Bless you Prabhuji, May Sri Krsna bless you with the touch of His flute. May

He bless us all.

in this way

In His Vraja Vilasa Raghunath Das Goswami has written:

TEXT 48

The fortunate flute deeply drinks the nectar of Lord Krsna’s lips day and

night. I offer my respectful obeisances to this flute, which, with it’s

transcendental music, weakens the pride of Srimati Radhika.

 

TEXT 49

Neither the flattering cajoling words spoken by Krsna’s gopi messengers nor

the many hints, allegorises, and joking instructions spoken by Krsna’s cowherd

friends nor Krsna’s personally falling at her feet and begging Hr to forgive

Him nor even the harsh criticisms spoken by her intimate friends who are able

to rout the proud jealous anger residing in Srimati Radha’s heart. Only Lord

Krsna’s flute, disdaining all previous useless attempts, was able to very

easily

chase away that jealous anger. Let us glorify Lord Krsna’s exalted and

powerful friend, His flute.

 

TEXT 50

Pleased by the music of Lord Krsna’s flute, the best of the peacocks perform

a great festival of dancing in the forest by the shore of a lake. Gracefully

moving he delights enjoying transcendental pastimes in the forest. Meditating

on this, we ardently yearn to see that dancing king of the peacocks.

 

Many times in Jaipure we have seen the pujaris have given Sri Govinda(at

Radha Govinda mandir) a wrist watch, and we have felt so upset about such

ignorance...Krsna does not need a watch to calculate mundane time, just to be

reminded of mundane time , like a busy mundane person....

yes we can use cellphones or watches, even pants and shirts, but lets please

not be so foolish to attribute these to the Lord

 

begging for the mercy of the vaisnavas

Payonidhi das

[Guest guest]

dandavat pranams

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Regarding the nude ladies at Padmanabha mandir in Trivendrum in Kerala and

even sexual depictions on the pillars

on the way to the Lords inner sanctuary, after I had darshan of the Lord I

noticed these pillars and was very surprised.I asked one learned priest and

pujari there, and he smiled brightly that these are meant to keep lowclass and

lusty persons away from the Lord and just have them fooled with this and not

take

the Lords darshan but just look at all this maya , like a test of purity,

only a few pillars had Krsna and the queens the rest was like

a picture book of what I can imagine Kama Sutra would be like.

Kaupina outfit I have not seen, Only Radha Ramana ,and Krsna Balarama in what

appears that the dhoti is rolled up to look almost like a short pant. That is

the summer outfit

with affection and respect

your servant

Payonidhi das

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 4:40:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Deena.Bandhu.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes:

This is the most ridiculous explanation I have ever heard. If a lusty person

wants to see naked women, the last place he'll go is the temple. There are far

better and appropriate places for such activities. Probably he was just joking

with you as evidenced by his bright smile.

 

Simply as a matter of reality, the female body is very beautiful and every

culture of the world and has depicted it in it's naked beauty. So why not

Indian Culture? I have seen hardly an ancient temple that didn't have these.

Of

course for the very erotic artwork seen in some temples, nobody has ever given

me a thouroughly convincing answer. But for the usual artwork, those who are

pure hearted are not disturbed, (that doesn't include me) just like we see in

the description of the festivities after the Rajasuya sacrifice in

Hastinapura,

with Srila Prabhupada's appropriate comments.

My Dear Deenabandhu Prabhu

Please accept my humble obaisences

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Thank you I am aware of these pastimes, and there was one person that was

never happy that was Duroydhana being a demon .Yes I am not disagreeing, I

don't

know if you have been to the Ananta Padmanabha temple? That temple is not

just a few naked breasts, but one sex scene after the other. You did not offer

a

better explanation. I don't see how it is so crazy of an idea" Why should the

Lord be bothered by those who are to lowclass" that is the logic, they will be

happy just looking at lust and go away.Gaura Govinda Maharaja used to say

that Krsna does not care much for those who have ulterior motives, I just read

a

lecture yesterday:"We are on the bodily platform.We always want bodily

comforts and enjoyment. Anything uncomfortable for the body-"Oh I don't want

it"

Krsna will never listen to such a person.Krsna listens to one who with an open

heart says, Krsna!I dont want anything from you"Bhaktivinode Thakura

sings(Gitavali 12.4.1)

Prabhu tava pada yuge mora nivedan, nahi magi deha sukla vidya dhana jana

Oh Lord this is my prayer at your lotus feet,I don't want deha sukha.i don't

ask you for my bodily comfort, happiness enjoyment vidya dhana jana-I dont ask

you for material education ,material wealth or jana material followers.

(see Krsna Kathamrita no 10 for the articel "Putana")

We have no interest to by like the Yadavas and throw substances like

yoghourt on their bodies of females, even if it is within service to Krsna.

Krsna warns in the Gita to contemplate objects of sensegratification, the

Yadavas and Pandavas may be so pure they can do so. I am not.

We have actually seen 3 persons in Ananta Padmanabha temple just look at

the pillars and not take the Lords darshan,and leave so the opinion of that

Pandit seemed correct.

But I am not offering this as anything absolute, you are right there might

be a better explanation.Please offer it to me when you have it Prabhuji.

Na dhanam na janam na sundarim- we certainly dont want these things, Bhavatad

Bhaktir ahaituki tvayi.

 

with affection and respect

Your servant

Payonidhi das

[Guest guest]

Actually Srila Prabhupada told us we could offer a watch to Krishna - at

least to London Isvara. He also gave the permission to decorate Their eyes

with eyelashes.

Ys

Rdd

[Guest guest]

PAMHO AGTSP

 

Dear Ramadevi ji,

 

On Sep 21, 2006, at 6:06 AM, Ramadevi (dd) ACBSP (Mayapur - IN) wrote:

 

> Actually Srila Prabhupada told us we could offer a watch to Krishna

> - at

> least to London Isvara. He also gave the permission to decorate

> Their eyes

> with eyelashes.

 

I'm sure he did. As I said I am not against these practices. Do you

have that instruction on any tape or written anywhere? That would be

nice.

 

ys

 

Gaura Keshava das

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 9:08:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Ramadevi.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes:

Actually Srila Prabhupada told us we could offer a watch to Krishna - at

least to London Isvara. He also gave the permission to decorate Their eyes

with eyelashes.

Ys

Rdd

You please prove this or have some witness to this part of Krsna wearing a

watch, it is no where in writting and is not accepted in Gaudiya temple or in

ISKCON

[Guest guest]

> You please prove this or have some witness to this part of Krsna wearing a

> watch, it is no where in writting and is not accepted in Gaudiya temple

> or in ISKCON

 

Dear Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

At this moment in time I cannot offer you hard proof as I will have to

contact my godsisters who are spread around the world. I can however offer

the disciplic succession through which I was informed of this.

 

Yamuna Prabhu was the original pujari for Sri Sri Radha London Isvara. She

was trained by Srila Prabhupada personally. As far as I understand, she

recieved the original permission for offering a watch. She trained Lilasakti

Prabhu and Bala Gopala Prabhu who took care of Sri Sri Radha London Isvara

for many years. They trained me.

 

As far as the eyelashes are concerned, I think it was Visalini Prabhu

(ex-wife of Visal Prabhu) who asked Srila Prabhupada about offering them.

She was the one who came to London and put them for the first time.

 

I will write to my godsisters and inform you when I have some details.

 

Your servant,

Ramadevi dasi.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mother Ramadevi

Please accept my humble obaisences

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

It might be true, however it is not the practice in any Gaudiya vaisnava

religion to offer a wrist watch, it is simply rasabhasa, Krsna does not need a

watch to tell time.Luckely it has never been practiced in ISKCON and if anyone

put a watch on Krsna in any ISKCON temple I will make a complaint to the GBC

you servant

Payonidhi das

[Guest guest]

dear Gokul Candra Prabhu

Dandavat pranams

all glories to Srila Prabhupada

Right on Prabhu, that is how I feel about the watch too, Oh I have a watch

Krsna have one

we are equal, I am also like Krsna, this is Kali yuga.And then some fool will

go by the same kind of watch Krsna is wearing.After the watch there will be

some other speculation, and another. Oh in London it rains a lot now we should

 

give Krsna an umbrella

ys

Payonidhi das

[Guest guest]

> It might be true, however it is not the practice in any Gaudiya vaisnava

> religion to offer a wrist watch, it is simply rasabhasa, Krsna does not

> need a watch to tell time.

 

Actually, Krishna doesn't need ANY of the things we offer to Him. He is

completely self sufficient. He doesn't need the clothes, the bhoga, the

incence, the ghee lamp, the camara wisk or any other item we offer to Him on

the altar. The only thing He accepts is the love and devotion by which it is

offered. If someone, with the consent of her spiritual master, offers Him a

wrist watch in love and devotion, is there any reason He should reject it?

 

>Luckely it has never been practiced in ISKCON

> and if anyone put a watch on Krsna in any ISKCON temple I will make a

> complaint to the GBC

 

Well, it HAS been practised with Srila Prabhupada's consent, so what's there

to complain about?

 

ys, jdd

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/22/2006 4:33:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes:

Well, it HAS been practised with Srila Prabhupada's consent, so what's there

to complain about?

 

ys, jdd

from the watch will come other deviations, then celluar phone, then pants

,and soon the temples go to hell

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna:

Please accept my humble obeisance's. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

The principle behind Krishna being offered a watch is that it is sometimes a

tradition to offer the deity something considered very prestigious in this

world. It is similar to Srila Prabhupada advising it was alright to offer

devotee prepared, ethnic style cuisine food preps to the deity. In Italy Pizza

 

and Pasta if the ingredients are homemade would be an ethnic food offering. At

 

New Vrndavana, on a farm, pancakes or oatmeal with cream and brown sugar

would be a local food prep that is offer-able.For preaching Srila Prabhupada

authorized us to offer Christmas Candy Canes made by karmi's to Sri Sri Radha

Govinda. Srila Prabhupada said on West 55th St. you offer one portion of a

bhoga

preperation in the morning and that same food prep can be distributed as

Prasadam in bulk quantity all day long. I had lunch with Padmanabha Goswami

one

afternoon and he showed me some early 20th century black and white photos of

Sri Radha Ramanji being offered prestigious arrangements. Sometimes the

pujaris would make out of cardboard or thin wood, with artistic painting

added,

like theatrical scenery, a mini-replica of the Raj Dhani train, which was

generally for the materially affluent in those days. Standing in a window in

the

first class compartment would be Radha Ramanji giving darshan. Another photo

depicted a 10 foot wide by 6 foot deep replica of the Queen Mary luxury ship

on a small water replica depicting the ocean, with a sign on the side of the

boat saying "Long Live the King", yes Radha Ramanji is also the King of

England and Srila Prabhupada knowing who the real King is established his

London

deity as "Londonisvara".

Sri Londonisvara is the King of England not Elizabeth or Charles. It was

common knowledge at the West 55th St. New York City temple that Srila

Prabhupada

said Krishna can on occasion wear a watch, Jayatirtha das visited us a couple

times a year, although we never offered a watch to Radha Govinda.The

extreme misapplication of this concept, e.g. offering Bankibehariji Denim

Jeans is

over the edge, as it the opposite of prestigious,it is a style born of the

degradation of the 1950's and 1960's, the USA trend setting Empire of Evil

standard. Lets face it Denim became popular with Elvis, Marlon Brando, Black

Leather Jackets, Hippies, Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll.So Krishna should not

be

offered Denim Jeans and appear to be a follower of a degraded standard, and

offering Denim Jeans carries that stigma.

Jewelry, necklaces, rings, earrings, etc. are also universally worn by

Vikarmi sense enjoyer's, so should we stop offering Krishna similar jewelry.

The Los Angeles devotees bought Srila Prabhupada a Rolls Royce back in the

1970's and they asked Srila Prabhupada if a Rolls Royce was appropriate, was it

 

too opulent, would people criticize, Srila Prabhupada said something to the

effect that for the Spiritual Master even a solid Gold Rolls Royce was

appropriate. Traditionally a Sannyasi would never ride in a material

conveyance,

he would walk. If Srila Prabhupada had to walk where would most of us be now?

Obviously Krishna does not need to look at a watch to know the mundane time

this world is governed by, but as there was a time in India when having a

watch was considered a luxury reserved for a rich and opulent person,

therefore

even some Vrndavana temples would occasionally offer a watch to Krishna as a

symbol of prestige and opulence. Maybe some of you can remember riding on the

trains in India in the 1970's and having groups of Indian men starring at

your watch because it was a symbol of wealth and opulence, and many of the

poor

class hankered for a watch. By the way I saw that comment that "if it rains

in London the next concoction will be offering Radha Londonisvara an

umbrella". Actually we do offer an umbrella on occasion to Krishna, it is a

recommended article at a deity installation, I believe Sri Vamana deva was

offered an

umbrella. If the deity is taken on parikrama we bring an umbrella to protect

from potential rain. Umbrella is also offered to protect from oppressive

sunshine also.

The most important point in revealing our thoughts in these devotional

conferences is not to let the discussions fall to the mundane level of

offensive

and useless debate. I perceived that in some of these e-mails I received today

 

and request that if we can't treat each other with respect than better to

not respond at the risk of Vaisnava aparadha. We are hankering for knowledge

of

Krishna consciousness here not for Rajo guna bondage.

By the way, many Srila Prabhupada darshans are not to be found in Folio. So

it is a fact as Ramadevi Mataji expressed "she heard from her disciplic

succession", some of the first devotees personally trained by Srila

Prabhupada. On

West 55th St. for instance Srila Prabhupada, after hearing about the attack

in Africa where a devotee had his arm almost cut off protecting the deity

against dacoits, who thought the deity was made of gold, and the jewelry the

deity wore was precious gems, Prabhupada stated we should not offer precious

gems to the deity as it will attract thieves. In the same discussion Srila

Prabhupada stated, rhinestone or real stone what is the difference, when the

deity

wears it is real. You will not find this quote and many other quotes in

Folio, Folio is just not that comprehensive. So yes we have to rely on trusted

 

and senior devotees who were part of such discussions and darshans, I see no

problem with trusting first hand witnesses.

 

Your insignificant servant,

Ramabhadra das

Please check out radhagovinda.net and click on the Homepage photo of Sri Sri

Radha Govindaji for photos of the beautiful 2006 Radhastami flower dress.

 

In a message dated 9/21/2006 8:58:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Ramadevi.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes:

 

> You please prove this or have some witness to this part of Krsna wearing a

> watch, it is no where in writting and is not accepted in Gaudiya temple

> or in ISKCON

 

Dear Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

At this moment in time I cannot offer you hard proof as I will have to

contact my godsisters who are spread around the world. I can however offer

the disciplic succession through which I was informed of this.

 

Yamuna Prabhu was the original pujari for Sri Sri Radha London Isvara. She

was trained by Srila Prabhupada personally. As far as I understand, she

recieved the original permission for offering a watch. She trained Lilasakti

Prabhu and Bala Gopala Prabhu who took care of Sri Sri Radha London Isvara

for many years. They trained me.

 

As far as the eyelashes are concerned, I think it was Visalini Prabhu

(ex-wife of Visal Prabhu) who asked Srila Prabhupada about offering them.

She was the one who came to London and put them for the first time.

 

I will write to my godsisters and inform you when I have some details.

 

Your servant,

Ramadevi dasi.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramabhadra Prabhu

Please accept my humble obaisences

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

That is a very nice letter, I really liked it.

My humble concern is only some bogus things being introduced that is my only

fear, though Srila Prabhupada suggested this wearing a watch it has never

been the practice in any temples I have seen, and many devotees would object.

Yes, the umbrella is certainly part of deity worship there is even a

protective umbrella over many deities that umbrella is an expansion of Lord

Sesa.What

I was suggesting was a fear of other cheap items like a plastic umbrella from

K mart being put in their Lordships hands.

But luckily there are many excellent pujaris like your good self, and thus we

don't need to worry about deviation in the pujari department. There is

nothing wrong with offering opulence, but as we see it became the envy of for

example the muslim kings, that went and stole these jewels and destroyed the

temples

and the deities.

I recall in Vrindavan there was one devotee that offered a valuable nosing

to Radii Shyamasundara and during some festivities someone stole Radhikas

nosering.So how can we have opulent deity worship in Kali yuga, instead we have

to

offer their Lordships something of less value which is sad. At least pure

Silver can be used for crowns etc and easely put away. If there is so systems

of a

safe , then maybe some valuables can be offered on occasions.But be aware of

thives.....Srila Prabhupada stressed Bhagavat marg over panca ratrika marg,

and said if we get money print books.But nice temples are surely a huge plus

even for preaching.

Thank you Prabhu for taking so nicely care of Sri Sri Radha Govinda, I know

you are their surrendered servant

Your servant

Payonidhi das

 

The maha burfi of Radha Govinda is famous, these deities help us remember

Radha Govinda in Jaipure also, Srila Visvanath Chakravati Thakura has offered

this nice prayer:

 

Sri Govindadevastaka

Eight Verses Glorifying Sri Govindadeva

1 jambunadosnisa-viraji-mukta-

mala-mani-dyoti-sikhandakasya

bhangya nrnam lolupayan drsah sri-

govindadevah saranam mamastu

May Sri Govindadeva, who enchants the eyes of all living entities with the

graceful tilt of the peacock feather in His golden crown shining with pearls

and

jewels, be my shelter.

2 kapolayoh kundala-lasya-hasya

cchavi-cchata-cumbitayor yugena

sammohayan sambhajatam dhiyah sri-

govindadevah saranam mamastu

May Sri Govindadeva, who enchants the devotees’ hearts with His cheeks kissed

by the splendour of His smile and the dancing of His earrings, be my shelter.

3 sva-preyasi-locana-kona-sidhu-

praptyai puro-varti-janeksanena

bhavam kam api udgamayan budhanam

govindadevah saranam mamastu

May Sri Govindadeva who, by glancing at His beloved to attain the nectar of

Her sidelong glance, arouses the love of all the demigoddesses, be my shelter.

4 vama-pragandarpita-ganga-bhasvat-

tatanka-lolalaka-kanti-siktaih

bhru-valganair unmadayan kula-strir

govindadevah saranam mamastu

May Sri Govindadeva, who maddens the pious gopis with the graceful movements

of His eyebrows, which are sprinkled by the beauty of His moving locks of

hair, splendid earrings, and His cheek placed on His left shoulder, be my

shelter.

5 dure sthitas ta murali-ninadaih

sva-saurabhair mudrita-karna-palih

nasarudho hrd-gata eva karsan

govindadevah saranam mamastu

>From far away blocking their ears with the music of His flute and their noses

with the sweet fragrance of His body, He enters the gopis hearts and pulls

them to Him. May Sri Govindadeva be my shelter.

6 navina-lavanya-bharaih ksitau sri-

rupanuragambunidhi-prakasaih

satas camatkara-vatah prakurvan

govindadevah saranam mamastu

With the weight of His youthful handsomeness and the flooding ocean of His

spiritual love, He fills the devotees on earth with wonder. May Sri Govindadeva

 

be my shelter.

7 kalpa-drumadho-mani-mandirantah

sri-yoga-pithamburuhasyaya svam

upasayams tantra-vido pi mantrair

govindadevah saranam mamastu

Chanting mantras, the great devotees learned in the scriptures worship Him as

He sits on a spiritual lotus flower in a jewel palace beneath a grove of

desire trees. May Sri Govindadeva be my shelter.

8 mahabhiseka-ksana-sarva-vaso

‘lankrty-anangi-karanocchalantya

sarvanga-bhasakulayams tri-lokim

govindadevah saranam mamastu

Handsome as Kamadeva and dressed and ornamented as if for a coronation, he

enchants the inhabitants of the three worlds with the splendour of His body.

May

Sri Govindadeva be my shelter.

9 govindadevastakam etad uccaih

pathet tadiyanghri-nivista-dhir yah

tam majjayann eva krpa-prvahair

govindadevah saranam mamastu

Sri Govindadeva plunges in the flowing river of His mercy one who reads aloud

this Govindadevastaka, his mind meditating on the Lord’s lotus feet. May Sri

Govindadeva be my shelter.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/23/2006 7:01:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Braja.Sevaki (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes:

Anyone trying to understand how it may be

> ok to dress like that needs to join new bhakta dept. and read Srila

> Prabhupada books again.

 

nicely said, some persons where never properly trained in KC. And I dont know

what that storage facility for meat is about ,we sure can't accuse the

Bankabihari pujaris for stroring meat.Bankabihari is still a sacred arca

Vigraha

form of Krishna, here is the pastime from the Vegetarian guide by Jada Bharat

Prabhu

 

Haridas Swami of the Nimbarka sampradaya, a contemporary of the six Gosvamis,

established this temple. He discovered the Banke Bihari Deity at Nidhivana,

sometime in the 16th century. Banke Bihari was originally worshiped at

Nidhivana. Banke means “bent in three places” and bihari means “supreme

enjoyer.”

Haridas Swami originally worshipped this Deity under the name of Kunji-bihari.

This is a very rich temple.

Banke Bihari was moved here when this temple was constructed in 1864 (some

say 1874). Originally Banke Bihariji was worshiped alone. Later a small Deity

of

Radharani was added.

This is the most popular temple in Vrindavana, especially in the month of

Sravana (July-August), during Jhulan Yatra, the swing festival of Lord Krishna.

 

There are a number of silver-plated and some solid silver ornamented swings,

which are shown at this time. The main day of Jhulan Yatra is the third day of

the waxing moon, at which time Banke Bihari is placed on a golden swing

(hindola).

The curtain before the Deities is not left open like at other temples. Every

few minutes the curtain is pulled shut and then opened again. It is said that

the brilliant eyes of Banke Bihari will make you unconscious if seen for to

long a stretch. It is said that Banke Bihari does not like the sound of bells

or

conch; therefore they are not sounded in this temple.

The Deities do not get up until 9 am, because it is believed that Banke

Bihari has been up until late at night sporting. Mangala-arati is only one day

a

year in this temple, on Janmasthami. Only one day a year can the lotus feet of

the Deity be seen, on Akshaya Tritiya (Chandan Darshan or Dolotsav), on the

third day of the bright half of the month of Vaishaka (April-May). The autumn

full moon day is the only day that the Deity holds a flute, and also on this

day

He wears a special mukut (crown). Banke Bihari comes off his altar and can be

seen in full view on the last five days of the month of Phalguna, during the

Holi festival. He can be seen with four gopis, who are seen just at this time.

[Guest guest]

PAMHO AGTSP!

 

> It is said that Banke Bihari does not like the sound of bells or conch;

> therefore they are not sounded in this temple.

> The Deities do not get up until 9 am, because it is believed that Banke

> Bihari has been up until late at night sporting. Mangala-arati is only one

> day a year in this temple, on Janmasthami.

 

anyone knows whether this was the original standard in 16th century or it

has been introduced later on, and from when?

 

Hare Krishna.

 

ys, bbd

[Guest guest]

after being many years a visitor in Sri Vrindavan dham ,nothing is a

transcendentally sweet

as a tour of Vrajas places with Deenabandhu Prabhu

[Guest guest]

PAMHO AGTSP

 

Bravo! Some very nice points Ramabhadra prabhu.

 

On Sep 22, 2006, at 5:53 AM, Ramabhadra (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

> It is similar to Srila Prabhupada advising it was alright to offer

> devotee prepared, ethnic style cuisine food preps to the deity. In

> Italy Pizza and Pasta if the ingredients are homemade would be an

> ethnic food offering.

 

Of course Srila Prabhupada does not seem to have liked the sue of

yeast. It seems however that this has now become standard. I have

often thought that yeast is very similar to the fermentation that

idli and dosa batter goes through in South India or how yougurt is

cultured. However I guess the bottom line with ethnic food is that it

should of course be sattvic. What sattvic actually means when Indian

style cuisine often uses excessive chili and/or tamarind is I guess a

matter of opinion.

 

> At New Vrndavana, on a farm, pancakes or oatmeal with cream and

> brown sugar would be a local food prep that is offer-able.

 

The famous Oat-water of New Vrndavan was modeled by Kirtanananda off

a story that workers on the trans-pacific railway who eat it laid

more track than other workers who ate other things. At least that's

the story Shyamasundara(?) told me once when I was there. I never

really liked the stuff myself.

 

> For preaching Srila Prabhupada authorized us to offer Christmas

> Candy Canes made by karmi's to Sri Sri Radha Govinda.

 

Interesting! Of course, it would be better if the same candy were

made by devotees but some of these processed foods made by machines

in big factories really has very little contact with (so-called)

karmi's. I know that devotees regularly us papadam made in India

which no-doubt is not made by Vaisnavas yet because it is from India

or is Indian style cuisine we accept it as offereable. Go figure.

What is the difference between that an pasta?

 

> Srila Prabhupada said on West 55th St. you offer one portion of a

> bhoga preperation in the morning and that same food prep can be

> distributed as Prasadam in bulk quantity all day long.

 

Right. The idea you're getting at here is that the Lord gets to enjoy

some dish in the morning and even if that dish runs out it, the same

dish can be prepared again and distributed during that day. Yes, this

is a unique innovation to encourage prasadam distribution. Only

Jagannatha Puri (and perhaps Tirupati) temples as far as I know place

every bit of bhoga before the Lord before it is distributed.

 

> I had lunch with Padmanabha Goswami one afternoon...

 

He showed me a picture of Radha Ramana ji on a battle ship, actually

floating on a mini-artificial lake inside the temple.

 

> So Krishna should not be offered Denim Jeans and appear to be a

> follower of a degraded standard, and offering Denim Jeans carries

> that stigma.

 

Right, agreed! However in India denim jeans is the common dress of

the nouveau riche so this is probably why they offered Bihariji this.

Again I am not condoning it. Similar to when Kritanananda offered

Srila Prabhupada a crown, septre and cape in New Vrndavan. It may

have been a nice thought but was rasa-bhasa for Srila Prabhupada as a

sannyasi.

 

> Jewelry, necklaces, rings, earrings, etc. are also universally worn

> by Vikarmi sense enjoyer's, so should we stop offering Krishna

> similar jewelry.

 

What types of jewelry would you consider not appropriate? Obviously

not extreme piercings, etc.

 

> The Los Angeles devotees bought Srila Prabhupada a Rolls Royce back

> in the 1970's and they asked Srila Prabhupada if a Rolls Royce was

> appropriate, was it too opulent, would people criticize, Srila

> Prabhupada said something to the effect that for the Spiritual

> Master even a solid Gold Rolls Royce was appropriate.

 

This comment actually was published in an Australian Newspaper when

he visited Melbourne and was picked up from the airport in a fancy car.

 

> Traditionally a Sannyasi would never ride in a material conveyance,

> he would walk.

 

The last sannyasi to do this was the Late Chandrasekarendra Swami of

Kanchi (a Mayavadi). As far as I know all Vaisnava sannyasis of all

sampradayas now allow travel in vehicles. Times change, and for

preaching this can be accepted.

 

> If Srila Prabhupada had to walk where would most of us be now?

 

Point well made!

 

> Actually we do offer an umbrella on occasion to Krishna, it is a

> recommended article at a deity installation, I believe Sri Vamana

> deva was offered an umbrella. If the deity is taken on parikrama we

> bring an umbrella to protect from potential rain. Umbrella is also

> offered to protect from oppressive sunshine also.

 

Offering a Catra or umbrella is one of the 64 articles of worship and

should be offered regularly but at least on the first day of worship.

 

> The most important point in revealing our thoughts in these

> devotional conferences is not to let the discussions fall to the

> mundane level of offensive and useless debate.

 

Thanks for reminding us (especially me) of this.

 

> I perceived that in some of these e-mails I received today and

> request that if we can't treat each other with respect than better

> to not respond at the risk of Vaisnava aparadha.

 

I also deleted a few emails this morning without reading them in

entirety.

 

> By the way, many Srila Prabhupada darshans are not to be found in

> Folio..

 

It would be nice to know from the Archives how much more is available.

 

ys

 

GKD

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna:

Please accept my humble obeisance's. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

In a message dated 9/26/2006 7:13:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

gregjay (AT) bluebottle (DOT) com writes:

 

He showed me a picture of Radha Ramana ji on a battle ship, actually

floating on a

 

It was a replica of the Queen Mary Luxury Liner not a "Battle Ship".

 

 

 

 

So Krishna should not be offered Denim Jeans and appear to be a follower of

a degraded standard, and offering Denim Jeans carries that stigma.

 

 

 

 

Right, agreed! However in India denim jeans is the common dress of the

nouveau riche so this is probably why they offered Bihariji this. Again I am

not

condoning it. Similar to when Kritanananda offered Srila Prabhupada a crown,

septre and cape in New Vrndavan. It may have been a nice thought but was

rasa-bhasa for Srila Prabhupada as a sannyasi.

 

Yes India is becoming as degraded as the Western World. McDonalds, Pizza

Hut, XXX- Movies, MTV, Denim, Drug Addiction, HIV Epidemic, etc., etc.

Approximately 20 years ago I was in Loi Bazaar and for the first time in

Vrndavana I

saw a TV in a shop showing the Mahabharata Series. I thought this is the final

 

death knell of Indian culture, Maya will conquer them via the TV. Later

Michael Jackson a pedophile, and Madonna a Harlot, became the two "IDOLS" (as

in

Idol Worship) who conquered the minds and hearts of some of those same

nouveau rich who now wear Jeans. I just heard a news report today of a Clinic

 

which threw baby girls into a well after birth. Over 100 baby skeletons in one

 

well. A devotee recently posted a warning regarding food-grade Silver Foil

(Leaf) manufactured in India, with Cow intestines used in the Silver Foil

manufacturing. The same food grade Silver and Gold Leaf manufactured in

Germany and

Italy uses a process with wax-paper and Parrafin which contains no such

horrific Cow or animal product. Bottom line, just because Krishna appears to

have

appeared on the India continent, and the devotees are respected much more in

India than the West, doesn't mean India is some Idyllic Paradise devoid of

degradation. Yes maybe the nouveau rich are leading the blind into the ditch.

Jeans in general are accepted by fallen conditioned souls world-wide and all

the more why Bankibehariji does not need to wear them and appear as a common

sense enjoyer.

 

 

 

 

Jewelry, necklaces, rings, earrings, etc. are also universally worn by

Vikarmi sense enjoyer's, so should we stop offering Krishna similar jewelry.

 

 

 

 

What types of jewelry would you consider not appropriate? Obviously not

extreme piercings, etc.

 

I brought up this point to compare wearing a Watch to wearing costume

jewelry, and the occasional wearing of a watch in a Vrndavana temple as more

in

line with offering a prestigious item. When Ramadevi Mataji refers to Srila

Prabhupada telling Jamuna Mataji the Deity could be offered a Watch, it was a

time, approximately 1970 or thirty six years ago when a Watch was considered a

 

symbol of wealth. Times change and a Watch is not a symbol of wealth in India

anymore. By the way I recently had a line of watches made to sell in the Gift

Shop, with images of the Universal Form, Ugra Nrsimha, Jagannatha, Baladeva,

Subhadra devi, and Srila Prabhupada imprinted on the inside surface under

the Dial. They look great. Certainly fit for a King.

 

Your insignificant servant,

Ramabhadra das

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/26/2006 7:13:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

gregjay (AT) bluebottle (DOT) com writes:

 

 

 

<<<<<<<He showed me a picture of Radha Ramana ji on a battle ship, actually

floating on a>>>>>>>>>>>

 

It was a replica of the Queen Mary Luxury Liner not a "Battle Ship".

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<<<<<<So Krishna should not be offered Denim Jeans and appear to be a

follower of a degraded standard, and offering Denim Jeans carries that

stigma.>>>>>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<<Right, agreed! However in India denim jeans is the common dress of

the nouveau riche so this is probably why they offered Bihariji this. Again I

am not condoning it. Similar to when Kritanananda offered Srila Prabhupada a

crown, septre and cape in New Vrndavan. It may have been a nice thought but

was rasa-bhasa for Srila Prabhupada as a sannyasi.>>>>>>>>>

 

 

Yes India is becoming as degraded as the Western World. McDonalds, Pizza

Hut, XXX- Movies, MTV, Denim, Drug Addiction, HIV Epidemic, etc., etc.

Approximately 20 years ago I was in Loi Bazaar and for the first time in

Vrndavana I

saw a TV in a shop showing the Mahabharata Series. I thought this is the final

 

death knell of Indian culture, Maya will conquer them via the TV. Later

Michael Jackson a pedophile, and Madonna a Harlot, became the two "IDOLS" (as

in

Idol Worship) who conquered the minds and hearts of some of those same

nouveau rich who now wear Jeans. I just heard a news report today of a Clinic

 

which threw baby girls into a well after birth. Over 100 baby skeletons in one

 

well. A devotee recently posted a warning regarding food-grade Silver Foil

(Leaf) manufactured in India, with Cow intestines used in the Silver Foil

manufacturing. The same food grade Silver and Gold Leaf manufactured in Germany

and

Italy uses a process with wax-paper and Parrafin which contains no such

horrific Cow or animal product. Bottom line, just because Krishna appears to

have

appeared on the India continent, and the devotees are respected much more in

India than the West, doesn't mean India is some Idyllic Paradise devoid of

degradation. Yes maybe the nouveau rich are leading the blind into the ditch.

Jeans in general are accepted by fallen conditioned souls world-wide and all

the more why Bankibehariji does not need to wear them and appear as a common

sense enjoyer.

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<<<<Jewelry, necklaces, rings, earrings, etc. are also universally worn

by Vikarmi sense enjoyer's, so should we stop offering Krishna similar

jewelry.>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<<What types of jewelry would you consider not appropriate? Obviously

not extreme piercings, etc.>>>>>>>>>

 

I brought up this point to compare wearing a Watch to wearing costume

jewelry, and the occasional wearing of a watch in a Vrndavana temple as more

in

line with offering a prestigious item. When Ramadevi Mataji refers to Srila

Prabhupada telling Jamuna Mataji the Deity could be offered a Watch, it was a

time, approximately 1970 or thirty six years ago when a Watch was considered a

 

symbol of wealth. Times change and a Watch is not a symbol of wealth in India

anymore. By the way I recently had a line of watches made to sell in the Gift

Shop, with images of the Universal Form, Ugra Nrsimha, Jagannatha, Baladeva,

Subhadra devi, and Srila Prabhupada imprinted on the inside surface under

the Dial. They look great. Certainly fit for a King.

 

 

Your insignificant servant,

Ramabhadra das