Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Dear Yaduraja Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

 

In my last text I wrote:

>

> Currently we are discussing your point b):

>

> "Srila Prabhupada never ordered that he should ever stop being the diksa

> guru for ISKCON."

>

> Srila Prabhupada stops being the sole diksa guru for ISKCON if and only if

> he authorizes a devotee to be a diksa in ISKCON. In logic this is called

> equivalence (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_and_only_if ).

> Therefore your point b) is equivalent to following statement:

>

> "Srila Prabhupada never authorized anyone to be a diksa guru in ISKCON."

>

> You confirmed this on April 2, 2006. Then on Aug 28, 2006 you explained

> why you don't know how a devotee is authorized to be a diksa guru. So

> isn't it rascaldom to present point b) without knowing how a devotee is

> authorized to be a diksa guru?

 

You remained silent regarding my argument that your point b) is equivalent

to "Srila Prabhupada never authorized anyone to be a diksa guru in ISKCON".

So you accept it.

 

 

> And point b) (supported by the NCIP paper) simply asserts the historically

> verifiable fact that he issued no countermanding orders that would alter

> the above status quo, and hence his position as the sole initiator within

> the institution.

 

You don't know how a devotee is authorized to be a diksa guru but still you

claim that Srila Prabhupada did not give any order that he should stop being

the sole diksa guru for ISKCON, or in other words, that Srila Prabhupada did

not authorize anyone to be a diksa guru in ISKCON. This is rascaldom.

 

 

> Therefore point b) deals directly with ‘what Srila Prabhupada established

> within ISKCON regarding initiation’

 

Your point b) says "Srila Prabhupada never ordered that he should ever stop

being the diksa guru for ISKCON". So it says what Srila Prabhupada did not

establish within ISKCON regarding initiation (other diksa gurus), and not

what he established (ritvik initiations or whatever).

 

 

> My point still stands. We know exactly what orders Srila Prabhupada gave

> with regards initiation within ISKCON.

 

Do you really exactly know what orders Srila Prabhupada gave after 1977

regarding initiation within ISKCON?

 

 

> These orders left intact the status quo you agree he established in 1966.

 

Now we have 2006. Do you claim that after 1977 Srila Prabhupada could not

give orders to his disciples anymore or authorize a disciple to be a diksa

guru?

 

 

> Srila Prabhupada's orders to the GBC on how initiation was to be managed

> were issued in typed form and signed by him. We know this.

 

This is no answer to my question whether you know how a diksa guru orders

that he should stop being the diksa guru for his institution.

 

 

> Why should I 'want to see' any other orders than those that exist?

 

Because you asked me to present such an order. Did you already forget?

 

You asked me to proof the opposite of your point b). Therefore I am asking

you: What would you accept as an evidence? If you cannot answer this

question, then your challenge to present such an evidence is meaningless.

 

 

> You are the person challenging our position so the burden of proof is

> obviously on you to prove that there is relevant evidence directed at the

> GBC that would countermand the status quo you have already conceded was

> set in place by Srila Prabhupada in 1966.

 

I ignore your attempt to shift the burden of proof to me. I do not have to

prove statements that I did not make.

 

Generally, if you ask me to prove something, then please quote my statement

that you want me to prove. Okay?

 

 

Summary:

 

You did not present any proof of your point b). Therefore it is unproven.

And since your whole theory is based on that unproven assumption, your whole

theory is unproven.

 

If you agree with that, we can move to your point c). But probably you do

not agree and you will continue to waste time by presenting statements that

do not prove your point b).

 

 

ys Ramakanta dasa