SB 11.26.21

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 6:18:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, Narasimha44

writes:

Simply as a matter of reality, the female body is very beautiful and every

culture of the world and has depicted it in it's naked beauty. So why not

Indian Culture? I have seen hardly an ancient temple that didn't have these.

Of

course for the very erotic artwork seen in some temples, nobody has ever given

me a thouroughly convincing answer. But for the usual artwork, those who are

pure hearted are not disturbed, (that doesn't include me) just like we see in

the description of the festivities after the Rajasuya sacrifice in

Hastinapura,

with Srila Prabhupada's appropriate comments.

as a matter of reality this body is made of pus, stool ,mucus ,bile and

covered by a layer

of skin, what is the beauty of these female bodies?This beauty is illusory.

We all know the story of liquid beauty.

 

Sri Krsna instructed Uddhava as we find in Srimad Bhagavatam 11th Canto :

SB 11.20.23: When a person is disgusted with the temporary, illusory nature

of this world and is thus detached from it, his mind, guided by the

instructions of his spiritual master, considers again and again the nature of

this world

and eventually gives up the false identification with matter.

 

SB 11.20.29: When an intelligent person engages constantly in worshiping Me

through loving devotional service as described by Me, his heart becomes firmly

situated in Me. Thus all material desires within the heart are destroyed.

SB 11.20.30: The knot in the heart is pierced, all misgivings are cut to

pieces and the chain of fruitive actions is terminated when I am seen as the

Supreme Personality of Godhead.

SB 11.20.31: Therefore, for a devotee engaged in My loving service, with mind

fixed on Me, the cultivation of knowledge and renunciation is generally not

the means of achieving the highest perfection within this world.

SB 11.20.32-33: Everything that can be achieved by fruitive activities,

penance, knowledge, detachment, mystic yoga, charity, religious duties and all

other means of perfecting life is easily achieved by My devotee through loving

service unto Me. If somehow or other My devotee desires promotion to heaven,

liberation, or residence in My abode, he easily achieves such benedictions.

SB 11.20.34: Because My devotees possess saintly behavior and deep

intelligence, they completely dedicate themselves to Me and do not desire

anything

besides Me. Indeed, even if I offer them liberation from birth and death, they

do

not accept it.

SB 11.20.35: It is said that complete detachment is the highest stage of

freedom. Therefore, one who has no personal desire and does not pursue personal

 

rewards can achieve loving devotional service unto Me.

 

 

 

for example the Aila Gita

 

11.26.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Having achieved this human

form of life, which affords one the opportunity to realize Me, and being

situated in My devotional service, one can achieve Me, the reservoir of all

pleasure and the Supreme Soul of all existence, residing within the heart of

every

living being.

SB 11.26.2: A person fixed in transcendental knowledge is freed from

conditioned life by giving up his false identification with the products of the

 

material modes of nature. Seeing these products as simply illusion, he avoids

entanglement with the modes of nature, although constantly among them. Because

the

modes of nature and their products are simply not real, he does not accept

them.

SB 11.26.3: One should never associate with materialists, those dedicated to

gratifying their genitals and bellies. By following them one falls into the

deepest pit of darkness, just like a blind man who follows another blind man.

SB 11.26.4: The following song was sung by the famous emperor Pur•rav•. When

deprived of his wife, Urvaϥ, he was at first bewildered, but by controlling

his lamentation he began to feel detachment.

SB 11.26.5: When she was leaving him, even though he was naked he ran after

her just like a madman and called out in great distress, "O my wife, O terrible

 

lady! Please stop!"

SB 11.26.6: Although for many years Pur•rav• had enjoyed sex pleasure in the

evening hours, still he was not satisfied by such insignificant enjoyment.

His mind was so attracted to Urvaϥ that he did not notice how the nights were

coming and going.

SB 11.26.7: King Aila said: Alas, just see the extent of my delusion! This

goddess was embracing me and held my neck in her grip. My heart was so polluted

 

by lust that I had no idea how my life was passing.

SB 11.26.8: That lady cheated me so much that I did not even see the rising

or setting of the sun. Alas, for so many years I passed my days in vain!

SB 11.26.9: Alas, although I am supposed to be a mighty emperor, the crown

jewel of all kings on this earth, just see how my bewilderment has rendered me

a

toy animal in the hands of women!

SB 11.26.10: Although I was a powerful lord with great opulence, that woman

gave me up as if I were no more than an insignificant blade of grass. And

still, naked and without shame, I followed her, crying out to her like a

madman.

SB 11.26.11: Where are my so-called great influence, power and sovereignty?

Just like an ass being kicked in the face by his she-ass, I ran after that

woman, who had already given me up.

SB 11.26.12: What is the use of a big education or the practice of

austerities and renunciation, and what is the use of studying religious

scriptures, of

living in solitude and silence, if, after all that, one's mind is stolen by a

woman?

SB 11.26.13: To hell with me! I am such a fool that I didn't even know what

was good for me, although I arrogantly thought I was highly intelligent.

Although I achieved the exalted position of a lord, I allowed myself to be

conquered

by women as if I were a bullock or a jackass.

SB 11.26.14: Even after I had served the so-called nectar of the lips of Urva

ϥ for many years, my lusty desires kept rising again and again within my

heart and were never satisfied, just like a fire that can never be extinguished

by

the oblations of ghee poured into its flames.

SB 11.26.15: Who but the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who lies beyond

material perception and is the Lord of self-satisfied sages, can possibly save

my

consciousness, which has been stolen by a prostitute?

SB 11.26.16: Because I allowed my intelligence to become dull and because I

failed to control my senses, the great confusion in my mind did not go away,

even though Urvaϥ herself gave me wise counsel with well-spoken words.

SB 11.26.17: How can I blame her for my trouble when I myself am ignorant of

my real, spiritual nature? I did not control my senses, and so I am like a

person who mistakenly sees a harmless rope as a snake.

SB 11.26.18: What is this polluted body anyway — so filthy and full of bad

odors? I was attracted by the fragrance and beauty of a woman's body, but what

are those so-called attractive features? They are simply a false covering

created by illusion.

SB 11.26.19-20: One can never decide whose property the body actually is.

Does it belong to one's parents, who have given birth to it, to one's wife, who

 

gives it pleasure, or to one's employer, who orders the body around? Is it the

property of the funeral fire or of the dogs and jackals who may ultimately

devour it? Is it the property of the indwelling soul, who partakes in its

happiness and distress, or does the body belong to intimate friends who

encourage and

help it? Although a man never definitely ascertains the proprietor of the

body, he becomes most attached to it. The material body is a polluted material

form heading toward a lowly destination, yet when a man stares at the face of a

 

woman he thinks, "What a good-looking lady! What a charming nose she's got,

and see her beautiful smile!"

SB 11.26.21: What difference is there between ordinary worms and persons who

try to enjoy this material body composed of skin, flesh, blood, muscle, fat,

marrow, bone, stool, urine and pus?

SB 11.26.22: Yet even one who theoretically understands the actual nature of

the body should never associate with women or with men attached to women. Aft

er all, the contact of the senses with their objects inevitably agitates the

mind.

SB 11.26.23: Because the mind is not disturbed by that which is neither seen

nor heard, the mind of a person who restricts the material senses will

automatically be checked in its material activities and become pacified.

SB 11.26.24: Therefore one should never let his senses associate freely with

women or with men attached to women. Even those who are highly learned cannot

trust the six enemies of the mind; what to speak, then, of foolish persons

like me.

SB 11.26.25: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Having thus chanted

this song, Mah•r•ja Pur•rav•, eminent among the demigods and human beings, gave

 

up the position he had achieved in the planet of Urvaϥ. His illusion

cleansed away by transcendental knowledge, he understood Me to be the Supreme

Soul

within his heart and so at last achieved peace.

SB 11.26.26: An intelligent person should therefore reject all bad

association and instead take up the association of saintly devotees, whose

words cut off

the excessive attachment of one's mind.

SB 11.26.27: My devotees fix their minds on Me and do not depend upon

anything material. They are always peaceful, endowed with equal vision, and

free from

possessiveness, false ego, duality and greed.

SB 11.26.28: O greatly fortunate Uddhava, in the association of such saintly

devotees there is constant discussion of Me, and those partaking in this

chanting and hearing of My glories are certainly purified of all sins.

SB 11.26.29: Whoever hears, chants and respectfully takes to heart these

topics about Me becomes faithfully dedicated to Me and thus achieves My

devotional

service.

SB 11.26.30: What more remains to be accomplished for the perfect devotee

after achieving devotional service unto Me, the Supreme Absolute Truth, whose

qualities are innumerable and who am the embodiment of all ecstatic experience?

SB 11.26.31: Just as cold, fear and darkness are eradicated for one who has

approached the sacrificial fire, so dullness, fear and ignorance are destroyed

for one engaged in serving the devotees of the Lord.

SB 11.26.32: The devotees of the Lord, peacefully fixed in absolute

knowledge, are the ultimate shelter for those who are repeatedly rising and

falling

within the fearful ocean of material life. Such devotees are just like a strong

 

boat that comes to rescue persons who are at the point of drowning.

SB 11.26.33: Just as food is the life of all creatures, just as I am the

ultimate shelter for the distressed, and just as religion is the wealth of

those

who are passing away from this world, so My devotees are the only refuge of

persons fearful of falling into a miserable condition of life.

SB 11.26.34: My devotees bestow divine eyes, whereas the sun allows only

external sight, and that only when it is risen in the sky. My devotees are

one's

real worshipable deities and real family; they are one's own self, and

ultimately they are nondifferent from Me.

SB 11.26.35: Thus losing his desire to be on the same planet as Urvaœ•, Mah•r

•ja Pur•rav• began to wander the earth free of all material association and

completely satisfied within the self.

[Guest guest]

>From the internet:

 

 

The creators of Khajuraho claimed descent from the moon. The legend that

describes the origin of this great dynasty is a fascinating one : Hemavati,

the

beautiful young daughter of a Brahmin priest was seduced by the moon god

while bathing in the Rati one evening. The child born of this union between a

mortal and a god was a son, Chandravarman. Harassed by society, the unwed

mother

sought refuge in the dense forest of Central India where she was both mother

and guru to her young son. The boy grew up to found the great Chandela

dynasty. When he was established as a ruler, he had a dream-visitation from

his

mother, who implored him to build temples that would reveal human passions,

and

in doing so bring about a realization of the emptiness of human desire.

Chandravarman began the construction of the first of the temples, successive

rulers added to the fast growing complex.

 

Yet another theory is that the erotica of Khajuraho, and indeed of other

temples, had a specific purpose. In those days when boys lived in hermitages,

following the Hindu law of being "brahmacharis" until they attained manhood,

the only way they could prepare themselves for the worldly role of

'householder' was through the study of these sculptures and the earthly

passions they

depicted.

 

If the temples of Khajuraho can be said to have a theme, it is woman. A

celebration of woman and her myriad moods and facets- Writing letters,

applying

kohl to her eyes, brushing her hair, dancing with joyous abandon playing with

her child. Woman - innocent, coquettish, smiling - infinitely seductive,

infinitely beautiful. Depicted in a wealth of detail, sharply etched, sculpted

 

with consummate artistry. The philosophy of the age dictated the enjoyment of

the delights of arth (material wealth) and kama (sensual pleasures) while

performing one's dharma (duty) as the accepted way of life for the grihastha

(householder). Hence, the powerful combination of the visual and sensual

pleasures combined with the duty attributed to the worship of the Dieties

brings

about a powerful transformation of the body and the soul. To include all of

these

aspects of life in one's early years makes it easier to renounce them

without regret or attachment as one moves on to one's next stages of life

toward

moksha (liberation).

The history has it that the Chandella rulers fought a series of battles.

Many young men, fearing conscription, deserted their homes, renounced the

world,

and became ascetics. It was to get such ascetics return to a life of conjugal

bliss that the Chandella rulers got erotic sculptures erected to sexually

incite young mendicants, visiting temples for religious rituals and prayers.

The answer to the question as to why erotic images adorn the walls of these

temples is still being hotly debated amongst scholars. Some of them contend

that the temples commemorate the wedding of Lord Shiva and Parvati. As

evidence they point to a very large number of images of Shiva and Parvati in

these

temples. Till today, Shivratri is celebrated with much fervour by the locals

and the only temple where worship continues is the Matangeshwar Temple located

 

just outside the precincts of the western cluster of temples. It is,

therefore, believed that the sculptures depict the union of Shiva

(consciousness, a

male principle) and Parvati (energy, a female principle). Scholars are of the

view that many of the sexually explicit statues in various yogic postures

are actually tantric symbols and convey a meaning which we are yet to

decipher.

Another view is that the sculptures were made to convey that one must rid

oneself of kama, krodh, lobh and moh before venturing to enter the sanctum

sanctorum .

There is yet another school of thought that associates the erotic carvings

with the decadence which may have prevailed at the beginning of the

millennium, though others refute this by saying that they could have been a

protest

against the austere and celibate credo of Buddhism which was reigning at that

time. Whatever may be the truth, the fact remains that the sculptures are

indeed a celebration of the beauty of the female form in one way or the other.

 

There are hundreds of finely crafted statues of women in the shingara mood.

Though carved in stone, each of them is alive and vibrant. Whether it is a

statue

of a woman waiting for her lover, or in union with him or going about the

daily chores, each panel holds one spell-bound. It celebrates the concept of

the

naikya in all its splendour. Indeed, it is love’s labour dedicated to the

centre-piece of love — woman.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/21/2006 7:18:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, Ramabhadra

writes:

Another view is that the sculptures were made to convey that one must rid

oneself of kama, krodh, lobh and moh before venturing to enter the sanctum

sanctorum .

This is my point , one simply ignores the sculptures and goes and take

darshan of Lord Visnu, we have no interest in these sculptures only those who

are of

the Lord and His pastimes, interestingly the closer one gets to the sanctrum

the more sattvic the sculptures are in Ananta Padmanabha and those around the

santrum are the Lords pastimes like payers of Tama, Raja ,Sattva ,and Vissudha

sattva , and the Lords darshan is so sweet, in that temple one must be in

devotional clothing and remove the Kurta for men

[Guest guest]

PAMHO AGTSP

 

On Sep 21, 2006, at 4:59 AM, Narasimha44 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

 

> interestingly the closer one gets to the sanctrum the more sattvic

> the sculptures are in Ananta Padmanabha

 

Thanks Deena Bandhu and Rama Bhadra prabhus for your posts. Payonidhi

ji, actually I was not referring to the Maithuna figures in my

original posting. And I am sure that as Rama Bhadra prabhu has

pointed out we can go one discussing why they are there ad infinitum,

which is not my point at all. My original reference was to depictions

of Lord Krsna with his consorts Rukmini and Satyabhama which are

found on the walls of the Krsna sanctum itself (not on outer parts of

the temple). These are not depictions of sexual scenes simple

paintings of the Lord standing or sitting flanked by his two bare

breasted consorts. This was not (is still not) considered offensive

in orthodox Kerala society. The recent all Sanskrit film of the life

of Sankaracharya written by Madhva scholar Bannanje Govindacharya (a

longtime friend) depicts life in rural Kerala at the time of

Sankaracharya (approx 700 C.E.). In it the ladies wear traditional

Kerala style attire which consists of a type of sarong/lungi lower

garment and NO UPPER garment. In order to conform to today's Indian

censorship laws the actresses held loose cloths across their chests

by holding them using their armpits. The director the famous Late G.

V. Iyer (himself an orthodox South Indian Brahmin) wanted to depict

everything in this historical movie as closely as possible to the way

it was. Therefore my point was and is that although the exposure of

the lower part of the body was prohibited in all Vedic societies the

exposure by women of their breasts was not considered offensive and

in fact was an accepted part of life in parts of India. Please note

that brahmin women in South India even today wear 9 yard saris (twice

the "normal" length) without cholis/blouses (which are sewn cloth and

are not original Vedic apparel, as neither are slips and/or

petticoats, all things introduced later on, due to foreign moral

sensibilities). They wear these saris without blouses in different

styles which wraps them like a dhoti underneath so that no slip/

petticoat is needed and can also wear them so that their upper bodies

are also covered. This is a very common practice by orthodox brahmins

and vaisnava women in South India to this very day. The reason is

that sewn cloth is not pure and cannot be worn when going to the

temple or performing puja. Of course nowadays many women wear

"regular" saris or even salwa kamis (so-called punjabi/pant suits).

So my point was not concerning the Maithuna figures at all, but I

simply wanted to point out that what we consider immodest today may

not have been in Vedic society.

 

ys

 

Gaura Keshava das

[Guest guest]

thanks for clearing this up

[Guest guest]

Actually my reply was not to you statement

 

You wrote:

Speaking of what's acceptable

please visit the Krsna shrine within the famous Ananta Padmanabha

temple in Tiruvanantapuram (Trivendrum), capital of Kerala. You will

see there many depictions of Lord Krsna with His bare breasted queens

Rukmini and Satyabhama

 

but to Deenabandhus :

 

This is the most ridiculous explanation I have ever heard. If a lusty person

wants to see naked women, the last place he'll go is the temple. There are far

better and appropriate places for such activities. Probably he was just joking

with you as evidenced by his bright smile.

 

and he was responding to:

Regarding the nude ladies at Padmanabha mandir in Trivendrum in Kerala and

even sexual depictions on the pillars

on the way to the Lords inner sanctuary, after I had darshan of the Lord I

noticed these pillars and was very surprised.I asked one learned priest and

pujari there, and he smiled brightly that these are meant to keep lowclass and

lusty persons away from the Lord and just have them fooled with this and not

take

the Lords darshan but just look at all this maya , like a test of purity,

only a few pillars had Krsna and the queens the rest was like

a picture book of what I can imagine Kama Sutra would be like.

 

 

I stick to the explanation that I have heard from several authorities, it is

a test of purity, and that was part of the explanation given, if anyone goes

to Ananta Padmanabha temple please feel free to ask for an explanation, it is a

 

standard answer there,I was there with the padayatra in 1985 and it was

discussed and several devotees got the same answer so you can all have the

opinions

you want , but this is the explanation given at that temple.

Take it or leave it.My challenge is to go there and ask the temple

authorities in this temple

And as I mentioned priviously I was with some devotees and there was some men

that came looked at the pillars and then left the temple...it seemed to

confirme what we had heard, maybe Jayadvaita Swami or Lokanatha Swami would

recall

this or anyone that has been to Ananta Padmanabha temple, or if any reader

lives in Trivendrum