samAdhi -Universe merging into brAhmaN of shruti- is not an Experience

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

I have recently d for and my

greetings to all.

 

The purpose of this post is to convey references from

Vivekachudamani and Atma-bodha so as to convey the

possibility that samAdhi is not just a limiting

experience like 'feeling cold' or 'feeling blissful'

and that it is possible to realize brAhmaN as shown in

shruti thru samAdhi.

 

Acronyms used:- VC = Vivekachudamani

---------

 

References:-

http://www.sankaracharya.org/atmabodha.php

http://www.sankaracharya.org/vivekachudamani1.php#1

http://www.sankaracharya.org/nirvana_shatkam.php

---------

 

The seat of experience in egoism is described thus:-

 

VC 104. Know that it is egoism which, identifying

itself with the body, becomes the doer or experiencer,

and in conjunction with the Gunas such as the Sattva,

assumes the three different states.

---------

 

Buddhi also being incapable of knowing Brahman is thus

described:-

 

VC 256. That which is untouched by the sixfold wave;

meditated upon by the Yogi’s heart,

but not grasped by the sense-organs;

which the Buddhi cannot know;

and which is unimpeachable –

- that Brahman art thou, meditate on this in thy mind.

 

Atma-bodha 26.

Atman never does anything and the intellect of its own

accord has no capacity to experience ‘I know’.But the

individuality in us delusorily thinks he is himself

the seer and the knower.

 

Atma-bodha 41. There are no distinctions such as

“Knower”, the “Knowledge” and the “Object of

Knowledge” in the Supreme Self. On account of Its

being of the nature of endless Bliss, It does not

admit of such distinctions within Itself. It alone

shines by Itself.

---------

 

Brahman, who is not reachable thru any experience or

any knowledge arising out of the sense-organs, ego,

buddhi, manas- When a yogi realizes Brahman, the locus

of the universe is thus stated :-

 

Atma-bodha 47. The Yogi of perfect realisation and

enlightenment sees through his “eye of wisdom” (Gyana

Chakshush) the entire universe in his own Self and

regards everything else as his own Self and nothing

else.

 

VC 265. Realising in this body the Knowledge Absolute

free from Nescience and its effects – like the king in

an army – and being ever established in thy own Self

by resting on that Knowledge, merge the universe in

Brahman.

 

VC 341. To the Sannyasin who has gone through the act

of hearing, the Shruti passage, "Calm,

self-controlled." Etc., prescribes Samadhi for

realising the identity of the universe with the Self.

---------

 

If samadhi were to be an experience alone, then,

merging the universe as above into oneself is not

possible thru experience alone. Hence samadhi

is not just an experience. Nor is it possible to

realize thru buddhi or manas alone as shown in the

following:-

 

Nirvana Shatkam:-

"Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham,

Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer,

Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.

 

Neither am I mind, nor intelligence ,

Nor ego, nor thought,

Nor am I ears or the tongue or the nose or the eyes,

Nor am I earth or sky or air or the light,

I am Shiva, I am Shiva, of nature knowledge and bliss"

---------

 

Rising from samadhi, a disciple exclaims ! -

 

VC 481. My mind has vanished, and all its activities

have melted, by realising the identity of the Self and

Brahman; I do not know either this or not-this;

nor what or how much the boundless Bliss (of Samadhi)

is !

 

VC 483. Where is the universe gone, by whom is it

removed, and where is it merged ? It was just now seen

by me, and has it ceased to exist ? It is passing

strange !

---------

 

Rising from samadhi, the disciple further exclaims

the following words which are beyond experience:-

 

VC 490. I am not the doer, I am not the experiencer,

I am changeless and beyond activity;

I am the essence of Pure Knowledge;

I am Absolute and identified with Eternal Good.

 

VC 491. I am indeed different from the seer, listener,

speaker, doer and experiencer; I am the essence of

Knowledge, eternal, without any break, beyond

activity, limitless, unattached and infinite.

------------

 

Conclusion:-

------------

Hence, these stanzas clearly convey that samAdhi is

not just an experience and that it is possible to

realize brAhmaN as shown in shruti thru samAdhi.

 

Any clarifications, corrections or comments are

welcome.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

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[Guest guest]

Dear Raghava and EveryOne,

 

 

 

Thank you for your astute post. There are various forms of Samadhi; but the

realization of the Supremely Blissful Lord of the Universe seated in the

Heart reveals the true nature of existence as well as its source and

support. One may call this Samadhi by any name one likes, and as you allude

to in your post, it is not an "experience" like other experiences; but it is

the merging of our individual consciousness into our very own eternal Self.

 

 

 

Many believe that abiding the Witness Consciousness is the culmination of

knowledge and the goal itself; but behind even that witness is the Supreme

Brahman, the source of All, the Great Being, the Wholy Lord.

 

 

 

 

 

Please consider the following verses from the Vivekachudamani of Adi

Shankara -

 

 

 

339. To realize the whole universe as the Self is the means of getting rid

of bondage. There is nothing higher than identifying the universe with the

Self. One realizes this state by excluding the objective world through

steadfastness in the eternal Atman.

 

 

 

383 - Fixing the purified mind in the Self, the Witness, the Knowledge

Absolute, and slowly making it still, one must then realize one's own

infinite Self.

 

 

 

393. The Supreme Brahman is, like the sky, pure, absolute, infinite,

motionless, and changeless, devoid of interior or exterior, the One

Existence, without a second, and is one's own Self. Is there any other

object of knowledge?

 

 

 

394. What is the use of dilating on this subject? The Jiva is no other

than Brahman; this whole extended universe is Brahman Itself; the Sruti

inculcates the Brahman without a second; and it is an indubitable fact that

people of enlightened minds who know their identity with Brahman and have

given up their connection with the objective world, live palpably unified

with Brahman as eternal Knowledge and Bliss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These truths are revealed through the great Samadhi. Until that blessed

time these verses are only wonderful thoughts; but through sadhana and grace

one's ego merges into one's essence which is the infinite, timeless, and

supremely blissful Brahman. At that time one receives the answer to the

question "Who am I".

 

 

 

Love to All,

 

 

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

 

_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of Raghavarao Kaluri

Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:03 AM

 

samAdhi -Universe merging into

brAhmaN of shruti- is not an Experience

 

 

 

Dear All,

 

I have recently d for and my

greetings to all.

 

The purpose of this post is to convey references from

Vivekachudamani and Atma-bodha so as to convey the

possibility that samAdhi is not just a limiting

experience like 'feeling cold' or 'feeling blissful'

and that it is possible to realize brAhmaN as shown in

shruti thru samAdhi.

 

Acronyms used:- VC = Vivekachudamani

---------

 

References:-

http://www.sankarac <http://www.sankaracharya.org/atmabodha.php>

harya.org/atmabodha.php

http://www.sankarac <http://www.sankaracharya.org/vivekachudamani1.php#1>

harya.org/vivekachudamani1.php#1

http://www.sankarac <http://www.sankaracharya.org/nirvana_shatkam.php>

harya.org/nirvana_shatkam.php

---------

 

The seat of experience in egoism is described thus:-

 

VC 104. Know that it is egoism which, identifying

itself with the body, becomes the doer or experiencer,

and in conjunction with the Gunas such as the Sattva,

assumes the three different states.

---------

 

Buddhi also being incapable of knowing Brahman is thus

described:-

 

VC 256. That which is untouched by the sixfold wave;

meditated upon by the Yogi's heart,

but not grasped by the sense-organs;

which the Buddhi cannot know;

and which is unimpeachable -

- that Brahman art thou, meditate on this in thy mind.

 

Atma-bodha 26.

Atman never does anything and the intellect of its own

accord has no capacity to experience 'I know'.But the

individuality in us delusorily thinks he is himself

the seer and the knower.

 

Atma-bodha 41. There are no distinctions such as

"Knower", the "Knowledge" and the "Object of

Knowledge" in the Supreme Self. On account of Its

being of the nature of endless Bliss, It does not

admit of such distinctions within Itself. It alone

shines by Itself.

---------

 

Brahman, who is not reachable thru any experience or

any knowledge arising out of the sense-organs, ego,

buddhi, manas- When a yogi realizes Brahman, the locus

of the universe is thus stated :-

 

Atma-bodha 47. The Yogi of perfect realisation and

enlightenment sees through his "eye of wisdom" (Gyana

Chakshush) the entire universe in his own Self and

regards everything else as his own Self and nothing

else.

 

VC 265. Realising in this body the Knowledge Absolute

free from Nescience and its effects - like the king in

an army - and being ever established in thy own Self

by resting on that Knowledge, merge the universe in

Brahman.

 

VC 341. To the Sannyasin who has gone through the act

of hearing, the Shruti passage, "Calm,

self-controlled." Etc., prescribes Samadhi for

realising the identity of the universe with the Self.

---------

 

If samadhi were to be an experience alone, then,

merging the universe as above into oneself is not

possible thru experience alone. Hence samadhi

is not just an experience. Nor is it possible to

realize thru buddhi or manas alone as shown in the

following:-

 

Nirvana Shatkam:-

"Mano budhyahankara chithaa ninaham,

Na cha srothra jihwe na cha graana nethrer,

Na cha vyoma bhoomir na thejo na vayu,

Chidananada Roopa Shivoham, Shivoham.

 

Neither am I mind, nor intelligence ,

Nor ego, nor thought,

Nor am I ears or the tongue or the nose or the eyes,

Nor am I earth or sky or air or the light,

I am Shiva, I am Shiva, of nature knowledge and bliss"

---------

 

Rising from samadhi, a disciple exclaims ! -

 

VC 481. My mind has vanished, and all its activities

have melted, by realising the identity of the Self and

Brahman; I do not know either this or not-this;

nor what or how much the boundless Bliss (of Samadhi)

is !

 

VC 483. Where is the universe gone, by whom is it

removed, and where is it merged ? It was just now seen

by me, and has it ceased to exist ? It is passing

strange !

---------

 

Rising from samadhi, the disciple further exclaims

the following words which are beyond experience:-

 

VC 490. I am not the doer, I am not the experiencer,

I am changeless and beyond activity;

I am the essence of Pure Knowledge;

I am Absolute and identified with Eternal Good.

 

VC 491. I am indeed different from the seer, listener,

speaker, doer and experiencer; I am the essence of

Knowledge, eternal, without any break, beyond

activity, limitless, unattached and infinite.

------------

 

Conclusion:-

------------

Hence, these stanzas clearly convey that samAdhi is

not just an experience and that it is possible to

realize brAhmaN as shown in shruti thru samAdhi.

 

Any clarifications, corrections or comments are

welcome.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers. <http://in.answers./> /

[Guest guest]

Dear Michael,

 

Thanks for the kind reply. With your reply, it gives

me greater confidence that samAdhi is not an

experience.

 

I could not understand the following, although I am

trying to guess now - whether in samAdhi the witness

is realized first and then one goes forward in samAdhi

to realize the Supreme-Brahman. Any clarifications

would be wonderful.

 

>Many believe that abiding the Witness Consciousness

>is the culmination of knowledge and the goal itself;

>but behind even that witness is the Supreme

> Brahman, the source of All, the Great Being, the

>Wholy Lord.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

[Guest guest]

Dear Michael,

 

Your reply is wonderful indeed and a joy to relate

to:-

 

>Samadhi is a condition.

>Whether it is proper to say that the condition

> is an experience or not is up to the questioner.

 

>Words and concepts are limiting adjuncts and can

>serve to frustrate and confound

>the aspirant. Peace only comes as a result of the

>immersion of the individual

>existence into the great Ocean of Brahman.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

[Guest guest]

Shanti, Shanti, Shantihi

 

 

 

Warm regards,

 

 

 

michael

 

 

 

_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of Raghavarao Kaluri

Friday, September 22, 2006 6:42 PM

 

Re: samAdhi -Universe merging into

brAhmaN of shruti- is not an Experience

 

 

 

Dear Michael,

 

Your reply is wonderful indeed and a joy to relate

to:-

 

>Samadhi is a condition.

>Whether it is proper to say that the condition

> is an experience or not is up to the questioner.

 

>Words and concepts are limiting adjuncts and can

>serve to frustrate and confound

>the aspirant. Peace only comes as a result of the

>immersion of the individual

>existence into the great Ocean of Brahman.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers. <http://in.answers./> /

[Guest guest]

Vanakkam Raghava Rao,

dont intellectualise....

wisdom is not based on facts. its based on faith.....

Anbudan

 

Raghavarao Kaluri <raghavakaluri > wrote:

Dear Michael,

 

Thanks for the kind reply. With your reply, it gives

me greater confidence that samAdhi is not an

experience.

 

I could not understand the following, although I am

trying to guess now - whether in samAdhi the witness

is realized first and then one goes forward in samAdhi

to realize the Supreme-Brahman. Any clarifications

would be wonderful.

 

>Many believe that abiding the Witness Consciousness

>is the culmination of knowledge and the goal itself;

>but behind even that witness is the Supreme

> Brahman, the source of All, the Great Being, the

>Wholy Lord.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

 

 

 

 

PEACE through SURRENDER ...

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

, mango tree <oldmangotree

wrote:

>

> Vanakkam Raghava Rao,

>

> dont intellectualise....

>

> wisdom is not based on facts. its based on faith.....

>

> Anbudan

>

 

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

don't speculate... it is not.

 

wisdom is based on personal, direct and

umediated knowledge/experience.

 

yosy

 

cleverness and intelligence is not wisdom.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

> Raghavarao Kaluri <raghavakaluri wrote:

> Dear Michael,

>

> Thanks for the kind reply. With your reply, it gives

> me greater confidence that samAdhi is not an

> experience.

>

> I could not understand the following, although I am

> trying to guess now - whether in samAdhi the witness

> is realized first and then one goes forward in samAdhi

> to realize the Supreme-Brahman. Any clarifications

> would be wonderful.

>

> >Many believe that abiding the Witness Consciousness

> >is the culmination of knowledge and the goal itself;

> >but behind even that witness is the Supreme

> > Brahman, the source of All, the Great Being, the

> >Wholy Lord.

>

> Kind regards,

> Raghava

[Guest guest]

Dear Mango Tree Friend,

 

 

 

What do you mean by "faith"?...?

 

 

 

_____

 

[]

On Behalf Of mango tree

Friday, September 22, 2006 8:17 PM

 

Re: Re: samAdhi -Universe merging

into brAhmaN of shruti- is not an Experience

 

 

 

Vanakkam Raghava Rao,

 

 

 

dont intellectualise....

 

 

 

wisdom is not based on facts. its based on faith.....

 

 

 

Anbudan

 

Raghavarao Kaluri <raghavakaluri > wrote:

 

Dear Michael,

 

Thanks for the kind reply. With your reply, it gives

me greater confidence that samAdhi is not an

experience.

 

I could not understand the following, although I am

trying to guess now - whether in samAdhi the witness

is realized first and then one goes forward in samAdhi

to realize the Supreme-Brahman. Any clarifications

would be wonderful.

 

>Many believe that abiding the Witness Consciousness

>is the culmination of knowledge and the goal itself;

>but behind even that witness is the Supreme

> Brahman, the source of All, the Great Being, the

>Wholy Lord.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers. <http://in.answers./> /

 

 

 

 

PEACE through SURRENDER ...

 

 

_____

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it

<http://us.rd./evt=42974/*http:/www./preview> out.

[Guest guest]

Vanakkam Michael,

Faith is just another perception.....

Anbudan

 

Michael Bowes <aumshanti (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Mango Tree Friend,

What do you mean by “faith”?...?

 

[] On Behalf Of mango tree

Friday, September 22, 2006 8:17 PM

 

Re: Re: samAdhi -Universe merging into brAhmaN of shruti- is not an Experience

 

Vanakkam Raghava Rao,

 

 

dont intellectualise....

 

 

wisdom is not based on facts. its based on faith.....

 

 

Anbudan

 

Raghavarao Kaluri <raghavakaluri > wrote:

 

Dear Michael,

 

Thanks for the kind reply. With your reply, it gives

me greater confidence that samAdhi is not an

experience.

 

I could not understand the following, although I am

trying to guess now - whether in samAdhi the witness

is realized first and then one goes forward in samAdhi

to realize the Supreme-Brahman. Any clarifications

would be wonderful.

 

>Many believe that abiding the Witness Consciousness

>is the culmination of knowledge and the goal itself;

>but behind even that witness is the Supreme

> Brahman, the source of All, the Great Being, the

>Wholy Lord.

 

Kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

 

 

 

 

PEACE through SURRENDER ...

 

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PEACE through SURRENDER ...

 

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